: just got a 1985 cadillac fleetwood brougham d elegance coupe



jak89
08-11-11, 07:27 PM
I just got one of these today and i dont really know much about it and need a lot of parts like emblems,lenses, and other little pain in the butt parts I have no idea where to find them so anyone who does please help.

Also I have no idea which motor is in this car so that would be nice to know if anyone would be nice enough to fill me in

last but not least if someone could help me with the common problems in this car it would be appreciated

jayoldschool
08-11-11, 07:43 PM
Rare car. Last year for the RWD coupe. Engine is the V8 HT4100, unless it has the optional diesel or V6 (and not even sure the V6 was still an option for 85). You should be able to find everything you need right here. There are a few of us that have extra parts that we sell to each other. Visit the "parts for sale/wanted" thread at the top of this section and post exactly what you need. Have a look through as well. Chances are you just might find what you need.

Common problems are bad motors, unfortunately. Rod knock from bad bearings, flat cam lobes. If yours is quiet, drive it easy and keep your fingers crossed.

MoistCabbage
08-11-11, 07:44 PM
:welcome:

Ebay is a good source for small/trim pieces. Bid Daddy Caddy is a good seller, and there are others. Also try http://www.cadillacheaven.com.

Not sure what engine is in your car. I believe there was more than one option. You can try putting your VIN into the RPO converter:

http://www.compnine.com/vid.php

But I'm not sure if it goes back to '85. Is there anything printed on your air cleaner in regards to engine size?

sven914
08-11-11, 07:53 PM
Most of the '85 Broughams have the 4100, but a rare few have a the 350 Diesel. Check the VIN; if the 8th digit is a an 8, then you have the 4100, but if it is an "N" you have a Diesel. Because the 4100 and 350 are crap motors (depending on who you talk to), the engine may have been replaced with an Oldsmobile 307 or a Chevrolet 350.

A quick way to identify the 4100 is the chrome valve covers and center mounted A/C Compressor. If you have a diesel, there should be a placard next to the fuel gauge, warning you not to use gasoline. If you suspect the engine isn't original, post a picture of it and maybe we can identify it.

As for the parts and emblems you need, make a list of everything and post it in the Official Parts Wanted sticky (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1984-deville-fleetwood-1985/207821-official-parts-sale-wanted-thread-22.html)

jayoldschool
08-11-11, 09:30 PM
Last year for the chrome covers on the 4100 was 83. Later ones had black with a silver stripe down the middle.

sven914
08-11-11, 10:18 PM
Well in that case, the loud thumping noise and Gak flavored steam should be enough to tell if it's a 4100 or not.

Bro-Ham
08-12-11, 12:15 PM
Well in that case, the loud thumping noise and Gak flavored steam should be enough to tell if it's a 4100 or not.

Sven, I know you're a car nut, but tasting foul things that come from cars?! :)

To clarify what Jay mentioned above, in 1985 the rear drive Fleetwood Brougham had either the standard HT4100 V8 or a no charge 5.7 diesel V8. By 1985 the diesel engine was extraordinarily rare and not many seem to have survived. The last year for the V6 in the rear drive Cads was 1982.

What color is the Coupe inside and out? Post some pictures so we can share your thrill! Have fun with your new coupe! :)

Dave

sven914
08-12-11, 02:01 PM
You're probably too old to remember Gak. It was neon colored putty, distributed by Nickelodeon (made by Mattel) in the early '90's. When it got warm, it smelled just like antifreeze.

outsider
08-12-11, 02:09 PM
i used to love gak! you could make farting sounds with it and stuff!

Bro-Ham
08-12-11, 03:18 PM
You're probably too old to remember Gak. It was neon colored putty, distributed by Nickelodeon (made by Mattel) in the early '90's. When it got warm, it smelled just like antifreeze.

Sven, I was your age in the early 90's so it's probably more accurate to say that I probably wasn't paying attention to neither Gak nor Nickelodeon at that juncture. Glad to hear that you smelled the Gak rather than tasted the flavor. :)

jak89
08-12-11, 06:21 PM
Well I have the 4100, hopefully hopefully not a bad one. the only problem im having with it is it stalls out sometimes when I start it and then I have to let it turn over a few times before it starts. Its almost like its carburated. I know its injected so I think it could be something in the distributor it looks like it has new plugs and wires I dont really know where to start with that.

Other than that it runs pretty good I get a little hesitation at take off sometimes but I think its related to the stalling problem.

It needs a lot of body work but I've gotta see if its worth fixing up mechanicly first. It doesent leak anything and the oil looks real nice and golden brown after driving it for a while so I think thats a good sign? So far it has a rebuilt tranny. I'll post some pics of it in a minute.

outsider
08-12-11, 06:23 PM
^ There's no such thing as "not a bad one" when talking about the 4100 ;)

jak89
08-12-11, 07:02 PM
Well thats inspiring.

Does this car have a 5 number odometer?

brougham
08-12-11, 07:06 PM
On the plus side 4100s were more reliable in the RWD cars then the front drive ones

jak89
08-12-11, 07:07 PM
Has anyonr heard of putting aluminum heads on this motor

jak89
08-12-11, 07:15 PM
On the plus side 4100s were more reliable in the RWD cars then the front drive ones

Ya i was just reading something I googled it said that the later year 4100s got better gasket material and something else to better its downfalls


But i still dont know where to start on fixing this stalling problem

I just read all this

I think I should have become involved with this discussion earlier on.

The HT4100 site you mention gas really not changed since it was posted. The HT4100 chapter of the CLC is in somewhat of a limbo. Derek Sherwood started it, then sometime later left the club. But, there is a very vibrant and helpful Yahoo group, called the HT4100 Exchange, up and running that was the offspring to this that I started for the purpose of helping those with these engines.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/HT4100exchange/

There are 2 basic versions of these blocks, the longitudinal and transverse blocks. The longitudinal blocks were used in the 82-85 RWD deVilles and Fleetwoods, and the 82-85 Eldorados. They were available only as the HT4100. The transverse blocks were used on all the rest FWD Cadillacs. In 1988 they were enlarged to 4.5 litres, then in 91 to 4.9. The longitudinal and traverse blocks are not interchangeable.

The 4.5 was an overbore of the HT4100. They used removable wet cylinder liners, so to make a 4.5 out of a 4.1 can be done by simply exchanging the liners. The 4.9 was made by stroking the 4.5. The crankshaft cannot be used in the 4.1 since the nose is much shorter.

Early HT4100's suffered many failures. The most common was head gasket and intake gasket failures. They then also suffered distributor gear and camshaft failures. Many of the cam failures were caused by leeching of coolant from the head gaskets which compromised the oil's ability to lubricate the lobes. The head gaskets failed because of migration on the block. This was caused by split dowels used to locate the heads. Later engines had solid dowels and better gasket material which eliminated this problem.

Intake manifold gaskets also failed, and this was the most common cause of large amounts of coolant getting into the oil. This was repaired by revising the washers on the bolts, the gasket material and revised torque specifications.

They developed main bearing knocks as well. Many early 4.9's also suffered from this. When the engine got hot, clearance in the #1 ans #5 bearings increased so that the crank would move around causing a knock. This generally occurred under light acceleration. The fix was a bearing with increased eccentricity.

Other problems I have seen is the plastic on the timing gear on the camshaft come apart. This gets sucked into the oil pickup screen and starves the engine for oil causing potential catastrophic failure. This usually occurs on a long highway run. But this problem is by no means unique to the HT4100.

Reports of block porosity is a myth. But GM did and does recommend the use of the cooling system supplement tablets. And the coolant MUST be changed on a bi-annual basis, regardless of mileage. Put in 2 of these pills at that time.

I hope this addresses, once again, some of the common questions and myths about these engines.

Now, on the original problem, I would first find out where the coolant is going before I condemn the engine. If you are driving the car and just adding water as it goes down, you are only making the problem worse. Have you looked at the oil? The knock may be caused by the old main bearing issue I mentioned. Or by the coolant oil mix tearing away at the bearing material.

But, in any event, you will be spending upwards of $1,000 on the repair, if not more. A rebuilt engine will cost many times that, but will eliminate the problem, and that would be my recommendation. A swap to another type of engine is a very labour intensive job and will run you into even more, unless you can do the work yourself. Then there is the time involved the "shake down" all those little problems that arise from such a conversion.

Mike

sven914
08-12-11, 07:22 PM
No body makes aluminum heads for them. You should change the coolant, imminently, because it doesn't sound like the engine has been maintained.

The hesitation, stalling, and long cranking may also mean the injector is clogged. I would replace that with the plugs and wires to see if anything improves. You should also try cleaning the induction system with Sea Foam induction cleaner, to get all of the crap off the valves and cylinder heads.

The 4100 isn't really a bad engine, but it requires regular maintenance. It is never going to be fast or powerful or reliable, but if you take care of it, it will last for a long time.

jak89
08-12-11, 07:28 PM
heck ya thanks for the suggestions.

Can you check the codes on this car without any fancy equipment?

jak89
08-12-11, 08:48 PM
I think i might have a bad tps but I have no idea where it is can someone help a brother out

jayoldschool
08-12-11, 09:31 PM
If you have a bad TPS the CEL will be illuminated. See the FAQs for the how-to on checking codes. Very easy with an 85.

sven914
08-12-11, 09:41 PM
You turn the ignition on and hold the OFF and WARMER buttons down at the same time. The ECC will read 88 and then the codes will start scrolling.

Click here for a list of the DTC's. (http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/81cfb.html)

MoistCabbage
08-12-11, 10:08 PM
The 4100 isn't really a bad engine, but it requires regular maintenance. It is never going to be fast or powerful or reliable, but if you take care of it, it will last for a long time.

Any engine that will never be reliable, is a bad engine in my book.

jak89
08-12-11, 10:17 PM
Alright these are the codes and what they mean I still dont really know what any of this means yet so please be patient with my ingnorance to the caddy world

38- open MAT sensor circuit

39- TCC engagement prob

52- ECM memory reset indicator
I did some reading on the codes and the 38 code seems to be a likely problem for me but I dont know anything about that sensor or where it is

jak89
08-12-11, 10:27 PM
If you have a bad TPS the CEL will be illuminated. See the FAQs for the how-to on checking codes. Very easy with an 85.

My service soon light comes on sometimes but not for long.

sven914
08-13-11, 01:21 AM
The MAT is the Manifold Air Temperature sensor. I'm not sure where it is, but I think it looks like a coolant sensor (with two wires) that is screwed into the intake behind the alternator. I could be wrong on that.

jayoldschool
08-13-11, 12:16 PM
That bad MAT could certainly be the cause of your symptoms.