: In the market for a new (to me) Caddy



brandondeleo
08-06-11, 06:32 AM
I have finally gotten sick of all of the repairs I am having to do to my '99 DeVille. The previous owner was did not take care of it :nono:, and I am taking the brunt of it. To top it off, my half case seal is bad and I need a new radiator :helpless:. I am tired of the money dumping, so I am looking into a newer, less mileage 2000-'03 STS/SLS. I want to explore the Seville world, unless I can find a N/V equipped DTS, 2000-'05.

Thing is- I basically know what to look for in these things (HG, half case seal, trunk leakage, etc), but I want to be comforted in knowing some more. Since I am looking in the 2000-'03 Seville era, are the Northstars of those years less prone to these issues? Is there a certain year I should watch out for? I am THIS close to jumping on a 2002 Sterling SLS w/ sunroof and nav :rolleyes:, but I have to sell my DeVille off to someone willing to take on the half case seal. Not fiscally worth it for me. Thanks in advance, guys. All help is appreciated.

ben.gators
08-06-11, 06:50 AM
If you are sick of non-endless problems, repairs, and money dumping, you don't want a Seville! Seville is even worse than Deville because it comes with more systems and options and as a result it's more likely to break. Dont get me wrong, Seville is really a beautiful car, I love my Seville, my STS has had ZERO major problem, but boy, there has been always something little wrong! After fixing a problem, I start to think that yes, now the car is perfect, and in a few days some other small problem pops up!

If you are really dreaming about trouble free ownership of a Cadillac, a 10-year old Seville is NOT your dream car! Buy a Cadillac-certified CTS/STS/DTS which comes with 100k/6 year warranty.

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 07:05 AM
If you are really dreaming about trouble free ownership of a Cadillac, a 10-year old Seville is NOT your dream car! Buy a Cadillac-certified CTS/STS/DTS which comes with 100k/6 year warranty. I totally have 20k lying around. Lol. I am looking more around 5k. I am fine with small problems. I actually like having little problems because it gives me something to work on:highfive:. It is the big things that I want nothing to do with, such as the larger gaskets and seals and things.

And besides... I don't fit in the puny little CTS. :histeric: (It's true. I've tried.)

ben.gators
08-06-11, 07:36 AM
LOL

Anyway, you have owned a FWD N*powered Cadillac and they usually share the same problems.... So you know all potential expensive problems.... What I can say is with $5k it is really hard to get a problem free Cadillac! I have seen your car's pictures, and to be honest, I really doubt with that money you can buy another Cadillac which is as clean as your current one.... Keep your car and fix it! A 10 year old, $5k Seville will have the same amount of problems and the repair bills will be even higher....

Jesda
08-06-11, 08:04 AM
An economical choice would be anything but a FWD Cadillac, except for maybe a 2006+ DTS.

Good luck.

Stingroo
08-06-11, 08:38 AM
$5k and you want a Cadillac? I promise - stay out of a Seville. They're definitely not for college kids.

As submariner409 will chime in later and post: If you can't afford it new, you can't afford it. It's true, parts and labor aren't going down as the cars age.

I nominate a nice, clean, Fleetwood Brougham to you, sir. With some snow tires and a little weight in the trunk (lol as if they're not heavy enough now?) I've heard they can be TANKS in the snow. You would be able to see mid 20's in fuel economy on the highway, and high-teens MAYBE low 20s in the city if you're really good with that right foot.


Plus, more trunk space, and you can modify the motor if you so choose.

The B/D cars get discussed here a lot, but if you really do want a Cadillac, it's probably the easiest way to get in one and stay in one outside of a C-body DeVille. Best of luck to you, good sir.

Stingroo
08-06-11, 08:40 AM
Double post.

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 09:25 AM
FWB is my other interest. If I find the RIGHT FWB I would totally jump on it. The problem is, you see them in two forms: totally ghetto'd out with 12" Daytons, stereos and tacky trim and pinstriping, and cherry geriatric-mobiles that are priced ridiculously high. Lol. I do like FWBs though...

Rodya234
08-06-11, 09:38 AM
Yeah, if you think the Deville you have now is bad, a newer (more expensive...) FWD model is only going to give you more trouble. The only reason I figured I could afford my Seville was because I can do all the work on it myself, but even with that being said, the price of parts is still high. They're not for college kids indeed. Unless you're a lunatic like me, then by all means, buy one. :lol:


Buy the FWB. Then you can do burn outs.

vincentm
08-06-11, 10:19 AM
FWB is my other interest. If I find the RIGHT FWB I would totally jump on it. The problem is, you see them in two forms: totally ghetto'd out with 12" Daytons, stereos and tacky trim and pinstriping, and cherry geriatric-mobiles that are priced ridiculously high. Lol. I do like FWBs though...

Get the FWB, the LT1 is a great engine and easier to work on if need be.

Submariner409
08-06-11, 10:29 AM
Deville, Seville, Lexus, Town Car, whatever - if you want a luxury car the old adage "You gotta pay to play" holds true. There are luxury cars and there are economy cars - you cannot have both in one. As previously posted: The operating and maintenance costs are based on the original new price bracket of the car, NOT the corner used car lot price.

Unlike ben.gators my 2002.5 STS has been extremely reliable and trouble-free. No complaints whatsoever - BUT I had done my homework and knew what I was buying long before I wrote the check, so when I had to replace the water pump belt tensioner at 56,000 miles it was no big deal. I had one on the shelf.

For you, at your age and stage with a bit of mechanical knowledge under your belt, if you're truly hooked on Cadillac a creampuff 2002.5 - 2003 STS would be the best of all worlds - decently reliable, fun to drive under lots of conditions, and looks great as-is. (But I'm prejudiced). Make no mistake - repairs - if you cannot DIY, are expensive. Original parts are expensive. It will run 24/7/365 on 87 and run well. 24.8 mpg MAX long-term highway, maybe 16 back and forth. And a good one will cost AT LEAST $10,000 right now. Sure, you can find a 2000+ STS for $4,500, but it's junk unless you pull off a miracle with the little old lady next door. A quickie $450 detail shop can make anything look good for a week.

You think a Cadillac is stratospheric in maintenance costs ??? Buy a used Ferrari or Lamborghini. (It's all relative).

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 10:31 AM
Buy the FWB. Then you can do burn outs.I've always wanted to do a burnout. Lol

The LT1 is an impressive engine... The only thing holding me back is the winter worthiness of the RWD setup. We get feet of snow and below zero temperatures in the winter, and the FWD DeVille is BEASTLY on that stuff. Will weight in the back and studs make it as good on ice and snow as the FWD?

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 10:33 AM
...and I have heard bad things about the early OBD-II setup in '96s. '93-'95 then? Lol

RippyPartsDept
08-06-11, 11:33 AM
all good advice here... i would agree with you that RWD is probably not the best idea for you in the winter (but with the right tires and some weight on the rear axle you should be fine)

that said, ben is probably most right here...
keep your '99 is my advice
...
but if you're dead set on a seville then take sub's advice and go for a one with mangaride suspension
(but the drawback there is price)

Rodya234
08-06-11, 11:42 AM
^ I think keeping the '99 is the best idea as well. Buying another car doesn't really solve the problem anyways, any used car is going to have an issue or two. With the money you'll spend buying another car, and then fixing the problems on that one, you could just repair your Deville and enjoy it.

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 11:48 AM
That is an area I am torn at. I paid 2600 for the car (the owner was selling to post bail. desperate. lol) and I have spent probably 2k on it so far, and if I did the half case seal, I might as well get in there and do the HG and such. The cost of dropping the motor and doing all of that would be more than I paid for the car, and it would put my investment higher than the value of the car, which I can't get past. I have NO capability of doing it on my own 1) I'm not good enough and 2) I have no tools. On one hand, I can spend a few grand more on my DeVille and make it a long time keeper, or I can sell it off and buy a FWB at a lower cost and put a couple of bucks into it and have a real gem of a car. But I already have somewhat of a gem, given my DeVille's condition. I'm stuck. Lol. What do I do?? :crowded:

Stingroo
08-06-11, 11:55 AM
Hence me repairing my wagon... even though I feel like pushing it into the nearest lake.

Gah. lol

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 11:56 AM
I should change the title of this thread to WTF DO I DO. Lol.

Rodya234
08-06-11, 12:01 PM
Well you could always get another Sebring...


:D

vincentm
08-06-11, 12:03 PM
I ran into the repair cost/car value dillema also when it came to my baby, but when I first saw it in an ad here in kennewick I jumped the fence that Sunday to see it, and absolutely fell in love with it. I had to have it, so I called them the following Monday and was dissappointed to hear it was bejng whole saled due to HG on the front bank. I bargained with them and got it for $2k. I knew I was going to keep it for as long as I can and pass it on to my son if he wanted it. So $4300 repair job to have the N* rebuilt was a no brainer.

In the end repairing your Deville depends ultimately on your love for the vehicle. I saw some ads for some clean ass Sevilles in Yakima not far from your and me.

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 12:04 PM
At least that would get good gas mileage and be cheap to repair. Lol.

The more I think about it, the more I want to try and find a FWB. It will save me money in the long run on repairs, and it will be a nice change and a new experience, and I have always wanted to be one of those guys who buys a car, drives it for a while and flips it (not literally, thank you.) and buys another just for the experience of owning it for a while. FWBs are just so bad ass, and you never see them on the road around here. Unlike '97-'99 DeVilles...

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 12:18 PM
Update: I have decided to find a FWB. I want a change in scenery, and I adore that gen Fleetwood. I like big cars. It's genetic. Anyway, It is wayyy cheaper to repair, you can actually modify the LT1 without the car vomiting codes at you, it's bigger, softer and more characteristically Cadillac. If I can find one for a good deal, I might go forward.

Rodya234
08-06-11, 12:39 PM
My Advice: Beware of the Optispark.

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 12:41 PM
Optispark... Thank god for Bing. Lol

RippyPartsDept
08-06-11, 12:47 PM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/57/allspark.jpg

ThumperPup
08-06-11, 12:57 PM
If you can't afford it new, you can't afford it. It's true, parts and labor aren't going down as the cars age.
.

actualy there going up in price these damm parts
if you look at an old parts list form 2000 01 02 03 you will see prices have stayed the same or so if you look at the newer prie lists you will see the prices have rizen

ThumperPup
08-06-11, 01:07 PM
if it where me yall know what i would do i would dump the money in and fix it
just for the principle of the fact that i hate seeing these cars in junk yards because of a problem that the ownere could not aford to fix it yes i cuss my self out all the time for what i have doen and what things i have dumped money into
but i came into it knwoing that there was a chance i knew that the N's where around 6k if needed to be repalced
i knew that it would take about 3k min to have an HG fixed if that needed to be done
i came into it head first
and one day ill come into another caddy head first knowing the same thing
But i would also throw money at it for the one thing of im not letting it get the best of me i will be dammed if you are going to die on me now type of thing lol

Stingroo
08-06-11, 01:16 PM
The optispark isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Make sure your water pump is good and it'll be fine. Friend of mine is still on his original opti 198k miles in on his wagon.

93DevilleUSMC
08-06-11, 01:56 PM
Maybe something 4.9-powered with low mileage?

Jesda
08-06-11, 02:36 PM
Look for the newest, cleanest Civic, Integra, or Protege you can find.

maeng9981
08-06-11, 02:48 PM
I also want to have a full-size RWD sedan like FWBs, but all I can find around my area is something that is on 28" rims and green interior, or has 200k miles on them, or has numerous speakers, or doors and panels falling off.

Stingroo
08-06-11, 03:00 PM
Take a trip to FL and get one from an old guy.

:thumbsup:

orconn
08-06-11, 03:10 PM
Sting's "trip to Florida" idea is a good idea ..... either that or look for a late model Regal, which seem to give so many good transportation on a budget!

gdwriter
08-06-11, 03:18 PM
If you can find a nice, unmolested Fleetwood that isn't way overpriced, great. Otherwise, stick with the devil you know. Unless it's a CPO, any used car is pretty much a crap shoot. Take care of these items, and your DeVille could be set for quite a while (what's the mileage?).

77CDV
08-06-11, 04:16 PM
A clean last-gen FWB is a fine car. Finding a clean, unmolested example at a reasonable price will be a challenge. Most have been lowered, donked, and otherwise abused and messed with to the point where they're no longer viable. On the other hand, your current car is nothing to sneeze at. For the price you'll have to pay to get another car in decent shape, you could easily fix the issues on your current car and have a known quantity at the end, which you can't say with anything used you may pick up.

A little story for you. When I finally graduated college, I was driving a 1989 Fleetwood Sixty Special. I bought it in 1995 with 80K miles for $4000, and in the intervening years, I put 100K more miles on it commuting to school, driving across the country, up the west coast and back, to Vegas (lots), to the Grand Canyon. It was a good car, but it was looking very used by 2001. The paint was going, the leather cracking, the top fading. I was out of school, had a good job, and deciding I wanted a new car at long last. So, I sold the 89 and bought my 2001 ETC. Now, the ETC is a great car (with the usual issues), but lately I've been thinking about that 89 and how I could have kept it, fixed it up perfectly, and still have had money left over. The ETC is now 10 years old and coming up on 110K miles. I've thought about selling up and buying something else, but then I think, for a fraction of the price, I could fix everything (and there's not much to fix) on the car and keep going for another 10 years in a car that's smooth, reliable, fast, uniquely styled and, to my eye, more appealing than anything else out there right now.

I'll give you the same advice I gave Chad when he wanted to sell his Deville to pick up his Benz. Stick with the devil (Deville?) you know.

cadillac kevin
08-06-11, 04:57 PM
I've always wanted to do a burnout. Lol

The LT1 is an impressive engine... The only thing holding me back is the winter worthiness of the RWD setup. We get feet of snow and below zero temperatures in the winter, and the FWD DeVille is BEASTLY on that stuff. Will weight in the back and studs make it as good on ice and snow as the FWD?
the whole fwd superiority in snow argument is BS IMO.
last winter I drove my fwb around town in the middle of a really bad snow storm. I was one of only 10 cars on the road. just had basic wrangler all season tires and a set of steel rims in the trunk. I was able to go about 25- 30 mph. just put it in drive, set cruise control and away it went. I was passing newer fwd cars like they were parked.

ThumperPup
08-06-11, 05:59 PM
you shoudl get this one from cleveland if your set on wanting a fleetwood
i think my dads step brother might still run the show room at this dealer
and if he does call ask for Jeff if he is still there tell him the Ross said to call you about this might be able to get you a deal on it also
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/2493747200.html

Stingroo
08-06-11, 06:28 PM
That red over black is NICE, but if I bought it, that horrendous trunk luggage rack would have to go.

ThumperPup
08-06-11, 06:35 PM
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ctd/2531899748.html

here is another one i see them all the time atleast 2 or 3 new ones a month on CL atleast when i look and the next month they are always goen its like they buy them up like flys around here


yeah im not fond of the trunk racks myself

Rodya234
08-06-11, 06:39 PM
I'd have a hard time convincing myself to buy anything with over 100k on it. But it doesn't look like there's many low mileage FWBs left...

Stingroo
08-06-11, 06:40 PM
100k isn't some magic number of doom and gloom anymore.

Maybe 30 years ago, but not with anything even remotely modern....

orconn
08-06-11, 06:45 PM
the whole fwd superiority in snow argument is BS IMO.
last winter I drove my fwb around town in the middle of a really bad snow storm. I was one of only 10 cars on the road. just had basic wrangler all season tires and a set of steel rims in the trunk. I was able to go about 25- 30 mph. just put it in drive, set cruise control and away it went. I was passing newer fwd cars like they were parked.

I have driven most of my life in rear wheel drive cars in the snow and othe Winter conditions. Until I got rid of my 2002 Mercedes with all the modern computerized "traction control" devices available, I drove this car side by side with my wife's '93 Seville STS. I can tell you from my experience in one of Northern Virginia's snowiest, iciest Winters in recent years that the FWD Seville was a far superior car when it came to handling snowy, slippery driving conditions. This wasn't a case of "somewhat" better but a matter of clear traction superiority on the part of the Seville. Please don't tell me that I don't know how to drive in Winter conditions, I have spent four Winters in the Upper Mid-West (Madison, WI weeks of below zero cold and snow and ice galore) and three years on the northern Japanese island of Hokkaido (8 months of sub freezing weather and poor to nonexistent road snow removal, you just drove in the tracks left by previous cars).

I realized there are some here that are so convinced of RWD superiority that they believe that FWD is inferior in all circumstances. I would only say there experience is either limited, or non existent. In my experience in driving under the most severe Winter conditions the FWD configuration deliver far better traction, than even a RWD car with the latest traction control technology (both cars carried a bag of sand and one of cat litter in the trunk for emergencies).

As far as setting your "cruise control" under heavy snow and ice conditions, your youth and inexperience are truly telling in this circumstance!

ThumperPup
08-06-11, 06:52 PM
iv only bought 2 cars with over a 100k on them and they both have had over 200k on them
one was a 98 S500 bought it for 1900 from a brothers friend who was going away for 10 years and needed the money
drove it for 4 months whyll posting adds in the plain dealer paper and the jewish news and sold it for 5k it had 238k when sold this was in 2008
the other was a 1992 Cutlas Ciara it had 205k it was in mint coniditon bought it for 800 dollars on CL sold it a month later with putting a sighn in the window and leavign it on the street sold it for 1500
every other car i have ever owned other then those to i never bought them with more then 90k on the clock i like to be able to drive for a month or 2 before seeing 100k lol and i keep them untill they get wrecked or untill someone makes me an offer that is good on them the caddy no one will ever make an offer that will make me sell not with what i have soaked into her lol

Rodya234
08-06-11, 06:52 PM
^ I didn't even know that cruise control worked at 30mph. :lol:

In the winter I always find it funny to watch Crown Vics and Mustangs and other RWD cars fishtail down streets that the plow hasn't cleared. My Deville always handled the Chicago snow well, even with no traction control and, last winter, non-functioning ABS. I can imagine that my STS will only be better.

ThumperPup
08-06-11, 07:05 PM
in the continetla i had cruise work at as low as 26 mph anyting lower it would not engage i used it on not busy city streets like when i would driv eon chester or st clair or supoeror down town cleveland all th etime was 26-28mph untill they put all the darn lights in



for me i have owned a few RWD i still love the FWD the most in the winter int he summer i love a RWD

hueterm
08-06-11, 07:13 PM
My white RM wagon is a beast in the snow...WITH the winter tires on it.

However, if you buy a $5K FW, it's still 15 years old and is still going to have problems. I've dumped THOUSANDS into both of the "cheap" RMWs I bought with all sorts of random problems. Trans/AC/brake lines/electrical...

Any FWD N* that's older and/or high mileage is going to have just the same risk of repairs as what you have. If you like your current vehicle (and it's in good shape otherwise) -- and IF you've already fixed a lot of things on it -- you're not going to do better financially than by just keeping what you have and fixing it.

ThumperPup
08-06-11, 07:30 PM
the plus side is you could look for the highest mileage FWD N you can find and there might be a good chance its alreayd been threw all the problems and fixed

Stingroo
08-06-11, 08:28 PM
Ehhh... probably not though.

Mike raises a fair point since you don't do your own repairs. With me that's less of a factor because I'm willing to learn (although I will admit, I am a shitty wrench turner at the moment :lol:)

cadillac kevin
08-06-11, 09:31 PM
I have driven most of my life in rear wheel drive cars in the snow and othe Winter conditions. Until I got rid of my 2002 Mercedes with all the modern computerized "traction control" devices available, I drove the this car side by side with my wife's '93 Seville STS. I can tell you from my experience in one of Northern Virginia's snowiest iciest Winters in recent years that the FWD Seville was a far superior car when it came to handling snowy, slippery driving conditions. This wasn't a case of "somewhat" better but a matter of clear traction superiority on the part of the Seville. Please don't tell me that I don't know how to drive in Winter conditions, I have spent four Winters in the Upper Mid-West (Madison, WI weeks of below zero cold and snow and ice galore) and three years on the northern Japanese island of Hokkaido (8 months of sub freezing weather and poor to nonexistent road snow removal, you just drove in the tracks left by previous cars).

I realized there are some here that are so convinced that of RWD superiority that they believe that FWD is inferior in all circumstances. I would only say there experience is either limited, or non existent. In my experience in driving under the most severe Winter conditions the RWD configuration deliver far better traction, than even a RWD car with the latest traction control technology (both cars carried a bag of sand and one of cat litter in the trunk for emergencies).

As far as setting you "cruise control" under heavy snow and ice conditions, your youth and inexperience are truly telling in this circumstance!
I never said that fwd cars were inferior. I was referring to the fact that some people believe that rwd's aren't worth a crap in bad weather (which I disagree with). I do agree that fwds can be easier to drive in snow in a straight line, but I found it alot easier to maneuver (turn, stop, etc) my fwb in snow than my fwd cutlass wagon (3.3) given similar weather conditions (granted the fwb has a roughly 1500 lb. weight advantage.)
as for your inexperience comment I disagree with you. I was driving on a straight 4 lane road with nobody in sight. granted if there had been anybody remotely around me, I would not have set my cruise (which was essentially keeping my car at its normal idle speed of 25 mph.) its not like I would ever use cruise in a condition I felt unsafe doing so in.

@rodya, my cruise control works at speeds as low as 5mph. (and yes I'm sure it was cruise because my car would idle down the street at roughly 25 mph.)

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 11:20 PM
1) I have already sunk as much money into my DeVille as it is worth, and I think another 3k or 4k would not be wise. I wouldn't junk it because I see the potential in the car, being as clean as it is with only 135k miles. I would just sell it to someone who is willing to take the project on. 2) The reason I don't work on my DeVille now is because it is impossible to work on the FWD N* setup with my experience. I can work on a RWD LT1 just fine. I like having little things to improve upon and work on because I like having something to do with the car. I expect (and hope for) a few problems. 3) I would NEVER drive a Civid, Integra, or other little Japanese compact. First off, I don't fit in them, secondly, they are gutless, third, I would NOT want to be in an accident in one, and I can not give up the GM luxury barges. I make plenty of money, so upkeep is not an issue. The issue with the DeVille repair is simply that I don't want to sink nearly twice what the car is worth into it, which is what I would be approaching if I did the whole dropped HG and half case repair.

As for the FWD RWD winter argument, unless you live in conditions like I do in the winter (multiple feet of snow and inches of solid ice on the road with below zero temperatures and gale force winds) you know that FWD is superior in winter. RWD can be modified to be decent in it with weight in the back and winter tires, but it is still not as good as FWD. Not bashing RWD, which is the preferred performance configuration, but FWD is much better in winter weather. And I'm with orconn on the cruise control. You NEVER use cruise control in bad conditions. You never use cruise while it's raining, let alone with snow on the ground. That is just asking to go off the road. You, my friend, are lucky.

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 11:27 PM
As long as I can find a well-priced FWB with a solid engine and transmission, I am fine with doing other work on it. There is a pretty clean '94 in Seattle for 2900 with 150k, 80k a rebuilt engine (fine as long as they provide proper documentation) and newer paint. The listed problems are mostly cosmetic; ripped seats and no trunk carpet. Edt: And a small exhaust leak at the manifold (common with LT1s, I have been told.)

Stingroo
08-06-11, 11:40 PM
Yep. So common, in fact, that it is significantly easier to find passenger side manifolds than driver's side ones, because they always leak.

One could always get a set of headers. :devil:

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 11:44 PM
Found another, black on black '94 with 22" black and chrome rims. 3k. Looks clean, says nothing about powertrain. Always worth a call. Lol

cadillac kevin
08-06-11, 11:45 PM
fwb with headers FTW

Stingroo
08-06-11, 11:45 PM
I like that car. I would totally take a look at it. You could recoup a fair bit of your purchase price by swapping wheels, I'm sure.

cadillac kevin
08-06-11, 11:46 PM
Found another, black on black '94 with 22" black and chrome rims. 3k. Looks clean, says nothing about powertrain. Always worth a call. Lol
stay away from cars with big rims. they can mess up your drivetrain (premature failure).

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 11:51 PM
I'm not AS concerned by the large rims on this as I would be on a DeVille, but I will keep a good eye out for signs of premature powertrain wear due to larger rims.

brandondeleo
08-06-11, 11:53 PM
http://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/2478060592.html LOVE the look of this one.

ben.gators
08-06-11, 11:57 PM
By the way, you say the reason for dumping the Deville is leaky half seals. How bad is it? I guess you know that about half of FWD N* powered Cadillacs (specially 90s) leak, including mine, and I just live with it! :D

brandondeleo
08-07-11, 01:00 AM
By the way, you say the reason for dumping the Deville is leaky half seals. How bad is it? I guess you know that about half of FWD N* powered Cadillacs (specially 90s) leak, including mine, and I just live with it! :DIt isn't HORRIBLE but it is enough to leave a solid ring of oil on the ground in the shape of the pan.

77CDV
08-07-11, 01:33 AM
Well, since you seem committed to the idea:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ctd/2524871655.html

brandondeleo
08-07-11, 01:36 AM
^Nice condition, but I am trying to stay away from the garish '90s colors. I'm going to take my time to find a black or tan interior.

Stingroo
08-07-11, 01:37 AM
WHAT!

DCM :drool:

Do want.

brandondeleo
08-07-11, 04:45 AM
Should I expect the same mpg from the FWB as the N* DeVille? They are rated at the same 17/25, and I average 20 in the DeVille. Is that feasible in the FWB? And does the FWB run on regular or premium?

vincentm
08-07-11, 11:16 AM
Brandon, if you think your incapable of working on your Deville you might be underestimating yourself. If gou can follow diahrams and instructions, I'm sure you can work on it. Just my $0.02

Stingroo
08-07-11, 11:18 AM
Should I expect the same mpg from the FWB as the N* DeVille? They are rated at the same 17/25, and I average 20 in the DeVille. Is that feasible in the FWB? And does the FWB run on regular or premium?

Totally feasible. And the LT1 runs on 87 octane.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-07-11, 11:39 AM
Honestly, if it were me, considering the number of NICE, UNMOLESTED, LOW MILEAGE, LT1 Fleetwoods on the market, I'd just find a nice one and pick it up asap and not worry so much about the color. For example, that maroon/maroon one that Craig posted IS very nice, even if it's got the garish red interior (my Roadmaster had the same interior color and I didn't like it). I'd much rather have something nice & low mileage with a less than preferable color, than a high mileage or molested FWB with a great interior color.

Brandon, have you driven a Fleetwood Brougham before? You might wanna drive one before you commit mentally to buying one. It's almost two feet longer than your deVille, and probably 4-5 inches wider and it's a lot more floaty and disconnected than a FWD deville.

Rodya234
08-07-11, 11:50 AM
Brandon, if you think your incapable of working on your Deville you might be underestimating yourself. If gou can follow diahrams and instructions, I'm sure you can work on it. Just my $0.02

I find working on a car doesn't even really require skill, you just need to understand what needs to be done to fix your issue (which is why I would never go without the FSM for my cars), and, most importantly, have the right tools. A good tool set can be pretty costly, but it's a much better investment than paying someone else to work on your car.

brandondeleo
08-07-11, 12:28 PM
Honestly, if it were me, considering the number of NICE, UNMOLESTED, LOW MILEAGE, LT1 Fleetwoods on the market, I'd just find a nice one and pick it up asap and not worry so much about the color. For example, that maroon/maroon one that Craig posted IS very nice, even if it's got the garish red interior (my Roadmaster had the same interior color and I didn't like it). I'd much rather have something nice & low mileage with a less than preferable color, than a high mileage or molested FWB with a great interior color.You do have a very good point here.


Brandon, have you driven a Fleetwood Brougham before? You might wanna drive one before you commit mentally to buying one. It's almost two feet longer than your deVille, and probably 4-5 inches wider and it's a lot more floaty and disconnected than a FWD deville.When I first drove my DeVille home from Yakima, I was scared shitless. lol. It took me a good week to get used to driving the thing, and it took a couple more weeks for me to stop being scared of the floating at 75mph and the feeling of lost control. Now I am totally used to it, and I actually thoroughly enjoy it! It's like riding a super plush roller coaster. As for the size, I like that as well. More car around me keeping me feeling safe. haha. When it comes to parking and things, it isn't a problem considering I live in a small town an hour from anything. I spend a lot of time in Seattle, and I found the DeVille to be perfectly manageable in the tight parking garages of downtown. The Fleetwood will be a challenge for me, and I am looking forward to it. :want:

I can work on cars and I have the skill, but I lose a lot of confidence when I peer into the engine bay of a FWD DeVille :suspense:. Lol. My birthday is this week, and I asked my parents for a good mechanic's tool set, and my mom used to race and my grandpa pretty much built the Vegas racing circuit. I feel that she will not disappoint with the tools haha. One of the biggest things I am looking forward to is being able to modify and upgrade the LT1.

Jesda
08-07-11, 03:53 PM
Red interiors drive me nuts. Imagine if you had to live in a house with red walls, carpet, and ceilings.

gary88
08-07-11, 04:10 PM
Red interiors are great with a contrasting color (usually black)

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/Raz5219/IMG_1945.jpg

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploads/Features/039__scaled_600_007.jpg

ThumperPup
08-07-11, 05:29 PM
i have to say red interiors do drive me nuts but if they have something to go with them like above then i could live with that
the only intero colors ic ould not live withi would burn it before i wouldd live with it would be brown so depresing

orconn
08-07-11, 05:40 PM
^^^ I find "grey" interiors to be both boring and depressing. The right shade of red, just not "orangey red," would be OK, dark red would be best. I've had too many black interiors to want any more of them. I like the "neutral" or "shale" interiors on both of our Sevilles, being cool in Summer and not depressing in Winter!

gdwriter
08-07-11, 05:47 PM
I like the "neutral" or "shale" interiors on both of our Sevilles, being cool in Summer and not depressing in Winter!I used to dislike tan or beige interiors, but the two-tone Neutral Shale in the Seville looks warm and inviting and nicely sets off the polished wood trim. Black really makes wood trim pop, but no way do I want to sit on black leather in the summer.

ben.gators
08-07-11, 06:11 PM
Red interiors drive me nuts. Imagine if you had to live in a house with red walls, carpet, and ceilings.

It feels like living in red light district, Amsterdam!.....

ThumperPup
08-07-11, 06:26 PM
i have to say my favorit interior of all is the one in the seville and the one in my old 95 Continenal the shieal and the cream tan interiros i love them they feel so nice and just make you feel happy i think

gdwriter
08-07-11, 06:39 PM
It feels like living in red light district, Amsterdam!.....Belle Watling, your car is ready:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5175399366_2df228f41f.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5175398662_4b9033c05c.jpg

And GM — Oldsmobile and Buick particularly — used a particularly tacky shiny velour in the late 80s (this is from a 1987 Olds Ninety Eight) that I dubbed Whorehouse Red:

http://www.gdwriter.com/87_98.jpg

orconn
08-07-11, 06:41 PM
It feels like living in red light district, Amsterdam!.....

Hm, that's interesting, tell us what it was like, Ben!

ben.gators
08-07-11, 06:55 PM
Hm, that's interesting, tell us what it was like, Ben!

LOL
Never been there, but I guess it should be like driving in one of these! :D


Belle Watling, your car is ready:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5175399366_2df228f41f.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5175398662_4b9033c05c.jpg

And GM — Oldsmobile and Buick particularly — used a particularly tacky shiny velour in the late 80s (this is from a 1987 Olds Ninety Eight) that I dubbed Whorehouse Red:

http://www.gdwriter.com/87_98.jpg

ben.gators
08-07-11, 07:05 PM
Belle Watling, your car is ready:



You Sir! Show some respect, seriously!
Belle is my second favorite character in that movie (Do I need to say Rhett Butler is my first favorite character?) No joke about Belle!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-07-11, 07:39 PM
Red interiors drive me nuts. Imagine if you had to live in a house with red walls, carpet, and ceilings.


I'd be very........angry.
http://slightlychristopher.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/kubrick-shining-blood.jpg
http://www.idyllopuspress.com/meanwhile/images2/sh_tuesbw3.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pervkocTAdk/TZtRFzQjmpI/AAAAAAAAAyI/0CxeA3y7x-k/s1600/distant_horror_The_Shining_twins_grady.jpg

Rodya234
08-07-11, 08:15 PM
Both the interior and exterior of my '93 Deville (as well as my sister's '93) are "Medium Garnet Red" and I can't stand it. The interior is really dark and uninviting, unlike the tan in my dad's '93 or the slate gray in my old '91.

vincentm
08-07-11, 10:19 PM
Wow this thread got super hijacked

gdwriter
08-07-11, 11:04 PM
No disrespect intended. Belle Watling was the proverbial madame with a heart of gold. I think she'd look right at home piloting a big burgundy Mark IV.

ryannel2003
08-07-11, 11:15 PM
I used to dislike tan or beige interiors, but the two-tone Neutral Shale in the Seville looks warm and inviting and nicely sets off the polished wood trim. Black really makes wood trim pop, but no way do I want to sit on black leather in the summer.

Seville's with black interiors look and feel like sitting in a large trashcan. There is too much black and the cheap plastics tend to be alot more obvious than with the Shale or Dark Grey interior. Mine is gray and while it wasn't my first choice it's easier to keep clean than the shale and better looking than the black.

brandondeleo
08-07-11, 11:25 PM
I love red two-tone interiors like the car up there^ but the all-maroon interiors, all of the carpet, dash, seats, trim, headliner, etc. being maroon makes me want to barf. Lol. The light colored leather does help in the summer, but in the winter I wish I had cloth seats...

77CDV
08-07-11, 11:59 PM
My birthday is this week.

Happy birthday!!!! :) :) :)


It feels like living in red light district, Amsterdam!.....

And you know this how? Inquiring minds want to know!


I love red two-tone interiors like the car up there^ but the all-maroon interiors, all of the carpet, dash, seats, trim, headliner, etc. being maroon makes me want to barf. Lol. The light colored leather does help in the summer, but in the winter I wish I had cloth seats...

I agree, fun house red is not my fave color. I just picked that FWB because it's been listed for a while, it's reasonably priced, and I imagine the guy is ready to bargain at this point. Road trip!!! :thumbsup:

gdwriter
08-08-11, 12:24 AM
Mine is gray and while it wasn't my first choice it's easier to keep clean than the shale and better looking than the black.I've never found the shale hard to keep clean. The guys who have seen Sabrina in person — Jesda, Chad, Ian, Jimmy, Marvin — they can all vouch for her pristine interior.

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 12:35 AM
My DeVille has the shale interior, it has 135k, and the leather (aside from some compaction) is absolutely perfect. The audio shop I went to a couple of weeks ago got a big spot of grease on the pass. seat, and I made him clean it. You can't tell it was there.

77CDV
08-08-11, 12:44 AM
So, let me tempt you with a selection of worthy candidates.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/2534810158.html

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/2534363175.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rare-1996-Brougham-Florida-car-No-Reserve-/320739935035?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4aad97033b

And that's all that's fit to print today.

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 12:47 AM
The bottom two are worthy candidates for me. Hahaha. ...and they're 1200 miles away. I have been meaning to take a trip back to SoCal, though. Fly there, drive back? Maybe! Lol.

ben.gators
08-08-11, 03:51 AM
No disrespect intended. Belle Watling was the proverbial madame with a heart of gold. I think she'd look right at home piloting a big burgundy Mark IV.

It was a joke, Gary! :D
The problem with internet is you can't post facial expressions or gestures.... The first line of my post suggests I am not happy with calling me "Belle Watling" But second line says I am not happy with joking about Belle. I guess I need to stop saying jokes, I am not good at it... :D sorry for my lame joke:)

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 06:33 AM
Update: Seattle. 1996 FWB, Red, ABSOLUTELY MINT, cloth seats, white vinyl top and gray interior, 57k miles! $3850. I need to sell my DeVille ASAP!! Lol

vincentm
08-08-11, 11:17 AM
Update: Seattle. 1996 FWB, Red, ABSOLUTELY MINT, cloth seats, white vinyl top and gray interior, 57k miles! $3850. I need to sell my DeVille ASAP!! Lol

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2535506067.html

Not bad.
(http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2535506067.html)

OffThaHorseCEO
08-08-11, 11:28 AM
I also want to have a full-size RWD sedan like FWBs, but all I can find around my area is something that is on 28" rims and green interior, or has 200k miles on them, or has numerous speakers, or doors and panels falling off.

my SRX has numerous speakers, 8 to be exact

ThumperPup
08-08-11, 11:48 AM
Seville's with black interiors look and feel like sitting in a large trashcan. There is too much black and the cheap plastics tend to be alot more obvious than with the Shale or Dark Grey interior. Mine is gray and while it wasn't my first choice it's easier to keep clean than the shale and better looking than the black.

i have to disagree with this i like black interiors i love them
but i wont own one becuse im not getting into a car in mid summer 95% outside and then even hotter inside iwth the son hitting me no damm way

ThumperPup
08-08-11, 11:49 AM
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2535506067.html

Not bad.
(http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2535506067.html)

wow now that looks preaty darn nice

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 12:05 PM
I got my DeVille out of the shop today- oil pan gasket, trans service (no dex-6 upgrade- they wanted 200 extra for it), new radiator. Going on the market as of ten seconds ago. I am determined to buy that red FWB. It's not too often you find a Brougham with the memory/ power cloth seats.

OffThaHorseCEO
08-08-11, 12:30 PM
let me chime in here, not with a recommendation but with a bit of advice.

I have owned a 2001 Deville, 2001 DTS (black with nightvision), 1996 ETC, 2004 SRX and 1989 Allante in that order

My brother owned 3 fleetwoods, a 94 a 95 and a 96 and a 98 Deville. I drive my cars, I spent alot of time behind the wheel or riding in his cars.

ALL CARS WILL HAVE ISSUES COME UP.


ALL CARS WILL HAVE ISSUES COME UP.


YOU CANT ALWAYS TELL WHATS WRONG WITH A CAR BY TEST DRIVING IT OR EVEN OWNING IT FOR A FEW WEEKS. THE SELLER WILL TELL YOU THE OBVIOUS FLAWS, BUT WILL NOT ALWAYS TELL ALL


My brother got lucky with his 94, something went wrong with the engine the first weekend he had it and the dealer traded him for the 95. The 95 was supposed to be 1500 more and had a way better condition interior and a much better paint job. The 95 NEVER had a problem. (actually it did, the VATS was beginning to go and it was very frustrating, this is before we used the internet much so we didnt know about the bypass)

Later he got a 96, drove it around for a couple of months, and the trans ended up going without warning.

Then he bought the 98 deville...PRISTINE condition, didnt over heat, no indications of head gasket trouble, he maintained it regularly then all of a sudden BAM, headgaskets are gone. Took it in to a mechanic we've known for a whle and he found the halfcase seal leak as well. He is in your predicament right now. He loves the car, and the car is in excellent shape cosmetically, but he cant bring himself to dump more money into it at this point in time.

Now, my 2001 Deville NEVER gave me any trouble except for minor annoyances, the intake manifold plenum, whatever its called, developed a tiny tear which is apparently common. This caused an rough erratic idle. I crashed it before i fixed it. 2001 DTS, never an issue again, again the plenum developed the leak. Repo man got it before i could fix it.

1996 Eldorado Touring Coupe. I LOVED this car at first sight. I am still jealous of vincentm's ETC and any ETC on the road. But to me (after my experience) its like being in love with a whore. Theres no future in it. My ETC was again excellent in all regards. Took it for a test drive and all systems were go. a couple of interior panels rattled but i figured i could fix that. besides that everything was ok. Two weeks later BAM transmission goes out. Dealer was kind enough to fix it for me. I got it back a month later. So i take it for a drive and all is well. Next thing you know it starts pouring rain. What do you know the sunroof is leaky. All in all the following ended up being wrong with it, albeit over a period of 2 years owning it (i probably got 14 months use out of it, it spent that much time in the shop) window motor was bad - replaced it then the switch went bad, panels were falling apart, sunroof leaked, alternator went out, trans was always popping sensors, cat ended up needing replaced, ac never worked. All of this stuff happened back to back, which was bad luck but also meant that it was probably neglected by its previous owners

i cleaned it up and traded it in for the SRX. The SRX was perfect except for the well known water leak into the spare tire compartment. got a fair deal on it and took it home. 3 months later the trans went. This time the dealer wasnt so nice about it. $3200. The tires needed to be replaced after about 8 months. $750. Just recently it came time to change the plugs, when we changed them we found oil on the plugs, so we had the valve cover gaskets and spark plug seals done $100. Still had a misfire and found out a coil had gone bad. Noone sells single coils, bought a coil pack for $160. The steering position sensor is also bad, the vehicle JERKS while on the highway, this is very dangerous. 50 for the piece, but you have to drop and dismantle the steering column. Im not comfortable with that so im giving away a phone to have it done for me.

Now lastly the Allante. Its an 89 so its the oldest of the group. When i found it i flew to tennessee. The paint was kinda off on the doors, and the idle was off a bit. The brake light warning was lit which could have been very expensive. turned out the parking brake wasnt fully released, quick fix. Drove it a bit and it felt sluggish. Stupidly though i was infatuated and on cloud nine. i bought it right away and took it home. ran two tanks of techron and by the time i got home the idle was good and the car no longer felt sluggish, just needed to stretch its legs. The required repairs on this have been: alternator popped its pulley, left me on I-95 but got a ride to the parts store for a new alternator, $100. A passenger window switch was bad 80. Cam position sensor went bad, replaced the whole distributor 200. heater core was clogged, flushed but messed up a hose while removing, new hose $5. exhaust manifold gaskets, $10. new plugs and wires $110(the ones on it had to be 5 years old so it almost doesnt count) and thats it off the top of my head. i paid 3500 for the car, and i spent 2300 on paint and 700 on wheels followed by 300 on tires cause a pair of the ones on the wheels were bad.


Bottom line is, no car will just open up and say "this and that is wrong with me, this will mess up at x miles." or, "i might not seem like a great buy, but im actually in great shape!"

Buying a car is taking a risk. Its not a gamble or investment because 99 times out of 100 you will not come out on top financially. Knowing that how much do you like your car? Is it worth it to buy a fleetwood and have the trans go out in 4 months? or have the optispark go out in a few months? or some eletrical gremlins screws something up and you dont even know where to start?

maeng9981
08-08-11, 12:38 PM
my SRX has numerous speakers, 8 to be exact

I am not talking about factory speaker setup. In that case my Deville has 11.
It's the speakers that sticks out of door trim or dash, giving a look of rice/donk



Not helping, but you can even find these kind of abused FWBs down here.....
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/2481231993.html

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 12:39 PM
1) way to be a buzz kill

2) I am aware that used cars are a gamble. It is a gamble I am willing to take.

3) A new trans for a 96 Fleetwood is a hell of a lot cheaper than a new trans (or anything for that matter) on a 99 DeVille.

4) I like it, and opportunities like this do not come up often. I am willing to take my chances buying a used car (after test drive and inspection, mind you) if there is the possibility that it will make me happy.

OffThaHorseCEO
08-08-11, 12:44 PM
im not being a buzz kill im just keepin it real!

im not trying to stop you from doing what you want to do, just trying to keep you grounded and level headed while you make this decision.

when we get excited about the possiblity of something new to us, our minds sometimes throw out logic



also, the subliminal message in my other post was that the oldest least technologically advanced of the group, has been the most solid performer

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 12:46 PM
im not being a buzz kill im just keepin it real!

im not trying to stop you from doing what you want to do, just trying to keep you grounded and level headed while you make this decision.

when we get excited about the possiblity of something new to us, our minds sometimes throw out logicLol thank you. The keeping my logic part is the part keeping me away from the triple black '94 with 22" rims and a system.:histeric:

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 12:50 PM
^^which is my backup if the red one doesn't work out and the black one checks out alright. Hahaha

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 01:57 PM
I called on the red '96. Purchased new by a geriatric couple in '97, kept garaged and driven sparsely (hence the 54k miles) and got to the point where the car was too much to handle in their old age driving in Seattle. Lol. Oil changed every 3k miles, new tires, sounds very promising. Being sold by the son who sounds to be in his late 40s, just wants to get rid of it, taking up space at the moment. Eh, time will tell.

OffThaHorseCEO
08-08-11, 02:10 PM
paperwork? records?

the only reason i say that is because thats the classic story when selling a cadillac "owned by grandma who only drove her car on sundays to church and back, all highway miles"

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 02:17 PM
I get that-that's why I kept all of my records to sell my DeVille with.

77CDV
08-08-11, 03:14 PM
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2535506067.html

Not bad.
(http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2535506067.html)

Very nice!

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 03:45 PM
It's got the power heated memory cloth seats. Really uncommon in Broughams, I've come to learn.

gdwriter
08-08-11, 04:49 PM
It was a joke, Gary! :D
The problem with internet is you can't post facial expressions or gestures.... The first line of my post suggests I am not happy with calling me "Belle Watling" But second line says I am not happy with joking about Belle. I guess I need to stop saying jokes, I am not good at it... :D sorry for my lame joke:)Don't sweat it. I was making a joke and never thought you were truly mad, just joking back with mock outrage. However, I could see a high-end madame in the 70s driving a burgundy Mark IV.

Hmmmm...Chad might take offense at that. :lol:

orconn
08-08-11, 04:57 PM
Don't sweat it. I was making a joke and never thought you were truly mad, just joking back with mock outrage. However, I could see a high-end madame in the 70s driving a burgundy Mark IV.

Hmmmm...Chad might take offense at that. :lol:

If memory serves, pimps and madames of the seventies preferred Eldorados and Fleetwoods to the likes of Mark IV's and V's! Just saying!

The Mark IV was more the prefered transportation of fat detectives!

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 05:04 PM
http://images.moviepostershop.com//superfly-movie-poster-1020216560.jpg Enough said. (72 Eldo) Lol

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 05:24 PM
http://esekorpse.lowrider.com/pictures/0006/6886/lrmp_0906_03_z_1996_cadillac_fleetwood_brougham_re ar_view.jpg This fits better. Hahahahaha

RippyPartsDept
08-08-11, 05:56 PM
I am not talking about factory speaker setup. In that case my Deville has 11.
It's the speakers that sticks out of door trim or dash, giving a look of rice/donk



Not helping, but you can even find these kind of abused FWBs down here.....
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/2481231993.html

these two pictures kind of say it all

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8493/unnamed1y.jpg

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/6411/unnamedx.jpg

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 05:59 PM
It's especially shameful since most of the bagged and hydraulic-equipped FWBs are some of the cleanest and best kept out there otherwise...

ltdltc
08-08-11, 06:39 PM
Fleetwoods? Meh I'd rather have a Town Car of similar year, may not be the best in the powertrain department but the overall package is 1000% better. I owned 4 Town Cars (1990,2 1992s & 1995) before getting into 2006+ DTS's so I'm a little biased.

ryannel2003
08-08-11, 07:02 PM
i have to disagree with this i like black interiors i love them
but i wont own one becuse im not getting into a car in mid summer 95% outside and then even hotter inside iwth the son hitting me no damm way

I like black interiors as well, just not on Seville's.

brandondeleo
08-08-11, 09:05 PM
Town Cars are horribly geriatric and flat out UGLY. The newer ones are a lot less ugly, they just lack character completely. Just my opinion.

cadillac kevin
08-08-11, 10:35 PM
It's especially shameful since most of the bagged and hydraulic-equipped FWBs are some of the cleanest and best kept out there otherwise...
that red one doesnt look that bad, aside from the hydraulic setup (which I loathe and would never own a car with). shame is the interior and underside look really clean.

77CDV
08-09-11, 05:16 PM
Here's a nice example.

http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/2536690108.html

brandondeleo
08-09-11, 05:19 PM
That's a pretty good example of what I'm looking for... Found one in Seattle, same color combo, same car -cloth seats, reinforced frame (for some reason, idk) 32k miles, priced a little high at 9k.

brandondeleo
08-09-11, 05:24 PM
Just went to go look for it again, not posted any more. I could go for this: 1998 Benz S class with bulletproof windows and 22"s. Lol. Who did that dumbass think he was? Biggie?
Hahaha

77CDV
08-09-11, 05:36 PM
^Chad? :lol:

maeng9981
08-10-11, 12:50 AM
Here's a nice example.

http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/2536690108.html

:drool: I'd take that :drool:

77CDV
08-10-11, 01:23 AM
It can be yours for mere money.

brandondeleo
08-10-11, 01:24 AM
It would cost me half that in gas getting there and back... Lol.

77CDV
08-10-11, 01:25 AM
And your point?

brandondeleo
08-10-11, 01:28 AM
Fly there and drive back, maybe... My mom would shoot me in the head. Lol

77CDV
08-10-11, 01:32 AM
It's a small price to pay. At least it would solve that pesky sinus congestion.