: Where is the thermostat on my 89 brougham



water walkin warrior
08-03-11, 11:03 AM
First of all, Good morning my fellow Caddilac men and women. I haven't been on here in a long time. The Tux is in need of a good dry cleaning right about now. She needs a real good tune up also.

This morning, I was driving to work and it overheated. There was still antifreeze in the radiator. There was some on the ground, but not much. It also wasn't dripping when it ran after it cooled down a bit. I'm thinking it's either the temperature sensor or the thermostat.

Can any of you guys tell me where it's located since my FSM is at home (I took it out of the trunk like a Homer)?

Also, how easy is it to change with a basic set of tools that I keep in my trunk?

Come to think of it, the temperature light came on, so maybe it's not the thermostat. I don't know. Can you guys help?

water walkin warrior
08-03-11, 11:08 AM
I got an error code 14 also when I checked the check engine code. Do you think the sensor just got wet and that's the only reason it shorted? Would it be wise to change both the thermostat and the sensor?

outsider
08-03-11, 11:14 AM
thermostat should be located on the top part of the engine, inside a "housing" and it should be very easy to change out with just a socket set or wrench. Just follow where the big coolant line connects to and that should be your housing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1967_Oldsmobile_Toronado_engine.jpg <- not a 307 per say but same deal...look where the big black hose is hooking up. (if image doesn't work go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1967_Oldsmobile_Toronado_engine.jpg)

http://image.automotive.com/f/tech/26715664+pheader/0911phr_01_z+oldsmobile_307_engine+motor.jpg <- without the hose on, you can see the housing ontop of the intake manifold.

water walkin warrior
08-03-11, 11:29 AM
Thanks. That helped.

outsider
08-03-11, 11:50 AM
Make sure you get a new gasket, too :)

water walkin warrior
08-03-11, 11:57 AM
So, from the sound of what happened, do you think that's all that needs to be changed?

sven914
08-03-11, 12:06 PM
The "COOLANT TEMP" light is not connected to the coolant sensor; it goes to a switch that turns the light on when the engine reaches 260. There is another coolant sensor that the ECM monitors.

Code 14 means that the coolant sensor, which is connected to the ECM, measured a temperature of 167 for more than 90 seconds. If your car was actually overheating, then the sensor did it's job and measured the temperature, so the sensor was working at that time. The ECM, by setting the code, responded to the temperature reading and adjusted the ignition timing and fuel mixture.

A faulty sensor will not cause an engine to overheat. However, after an overheating condition, you should replace the coolant sensor, because it's reading can become inaccurate from the high heat. So you should replace the coolant switch, coolant sensor, and thermostat.

water walkin warrior
08-03-11, 12:12 PM
Thanks. Where's the coolant switch? Near the sensor?

They look like the same part on the auto parts stores.

sven914
08-03-11, 12:24 PM
Right. They are pretty much side by side. The Switch has a single green wire and the sensor has two wires; yellow and (I think) black.

water walkin warrior
08-03-11, 12:36 PM
Got it. Thanks. Looking like a $40 fix including antifreeze. I'll probably need to flush the radiator later this week since I just dumped some hard well water in it earlier to see how low the radiator was. Man do I miss having a garage right about now. We've moved and don't have one to park her in now.

lincolncadillac
08-03-11, 05:33 PM
Hope thats its just your t-stat, and not the water pump. I just got done replacing t-stat, water pump, belts and cleaning my fan clutch coil and i can tell you it was not a fun time had by all.

sven914
08-03-11, 09:12 PM
I forgot to mention the pressure cap... If the radiator cap doesn't hold at least 16psi, the engine will boil over.

If you have another car and some free time, you can take the cap to a garage or a parts store and they should be able to pressure test it. If you can't get it tested, any cheapo ($5) 16psi cap will work.

Overheating puts strain on the entire cooling system, so even if it turns out to be the pressure cap that caused the overheat, it is still a good idea to replace the thermostat and sensors. Even if the thermostat is still good, it's going to fail sooner, rather than later.

water walkin warrior
08-04-11, 08:05 AM
Hope thats its just your t-stat, and not the water pump. I just got done replacing t-stat, water pump, belts and cleaning my fan clutch coil and i can tell you it was not a fun time had by all.

Duh, duh, daaaaa! It's the water pump. So is it better to take it to a shop and supply the parts purchased at the lowest price...or purchase the parts and do it with a small team of guys? I'm just gonna replace the belts, lower radiator hose and water pump as of now.

sven914
08-04-11, 11:19 AM
I would get the parts and then take the car to a garage; the money spent would be worth the hassle saved.

Don't replace the belts, because they're just going to have to take them off again.

csbuckn
08-04-11, 11:26 AM
If the shop wants to charge more than 200, I think you should do it with a bunch of car enthusiast. Just know that you will have to take all the accessories off the front of the motor. Take pics so you can remember how things go.

water walkin warrior
08-04-11, 11:42 AM
You guys are making me rethink doing it myself. Maybe I'll purchase the parts like Sven said and take them to the mechanic. I was going to get the belts and tell him to just put the new ones on when he puts it back together. That way there's no extra time wasted. He'll already be putting them back on anyway. In the meantime, I'm carrying 4 gallons of water where ever I go.

water walkin warrior
08-04-11, 12:54 PM
I'm starting to get brave again and thinking of doing this with one of the guys from our church this weekend to save money after seeing how inexpensive the parts are apart from the labor I'd be charged that I can't really afford right now.

csbuckn
08-04-11, 01:04 PM
How much does the shop want. Wish I was closer, I'd do it.

outsider
08-04-11, 01:08 PM
make sure to take pics for us :)

water walkin warrior
08-04-11, 01:47 PM
Don't know how much they want. Guess it wouldn't hurt to find out. I'm just on the verge of broke already though. lol If we tackle it, I'll try to take some pictures.

lincolncadillac
08-04-11, 06:49 PM
Just know that you will have to take all the accessories off the front of the motor. Take pics so you can remember how things go.

Yep, Everything has got to be removed or moved off the front of the engine. And you better hope and pray after you get it all back together that it dont leak. Because it is something you dont want to do twice.

water walkin warrior
08-05-11, 12:54 PM
It's official, I talked to one of the elders at our church that has done work on cars and we're gonna start at 7 am tomorrow. I'm buying the parts tonight and starting on it tomorrow at our house so I don't have to move it and it will be cold to start with.

Checklist of parts I'm gonna get for sure:
1. The Water Pump
2. The Gasket
3. The Lower Radiator Hose
4. A new Thermostat housing gasket to reseat a new gasket while we have everything else off. It's leaking a little bit still after I changed it the other day.
5. Antifreeze - I hate buying all this expensive antifreeze. I've bought 2 gallons already in the last 3 or 4 days. How much do I need to buy to completely refill everything?

Here's my question now. What belts should I be changing? If one is not in need of changing, do you guys think I should even bother buying a new one? I don't want to spend the money on extra ones if I don't have to. Whadoya think?

lincolncadillac
08-05-11, 04:58 PM
If your a/c belt needs replacing then do it now while you got all the others off, since it is in the back.

brougham
08-05-11, 05:05 PM
You only need to change the belts that are old and need to be replaced.
Unless it overheated really badly it shouldn't have affected the sensors. The thermostat is the main part that is prone to failing after overheating, if it wasn't the cause of the problem as in your case.

water walkin warrior
08-06-11, 11:13 AM
is there a trick to removing the ac bracket? thats were we are stuck at.

water walkin warrior
08-06-11, 03:22 PM
The car overheated last night and stalled. I had it towed to my house and we got started this morning at 7 am. We got the fan housing off, fan and clutch off, the lower radiator hose off (and replaced it), the AIR pump belt off, the alternator belt off. We were trying to get the AC bracket off because it looked like it needed to be taken off before the AIR bracket (even though the FSM says the AIR Bracket goes first). We had it all loose except for the bolt between the AIR pump and the AC pump. It was a long bolt that wouldn't quite fit around the front of the AC pump. Both brackets were loosened. We just couldn't get the AC pump bracket off. Does the front of the AC pump come off to allow the bracket to be removed? I went ahead and changed the Thermostat gasket to make sure it was seated properly (it had a slight leak on one side. I think it was because some of the old old gasket was still on the bottom of the housing. At least that's done now.) I think that if we could have gotten the AC bracket off, we would have been good to go. Sorry, no pictures. I didn't want to stop and take them with the elder from our church helping me.

Any answers regarding how you get the AC bracket off? I'm looking at taking it to a local mechanic that only charges like $35-$40 an hour for labor. I have the water pump and the gasket. The lower hose is changed. The thermostat is good.

When we checked to see if it was ok or not afterward. Water leaked out the bottom of the water pump again. It was kind of a pain taking it apart and putting it back together again, but if there's a trick to getting the brackets off, I'm willing to try again to save $200-$300 at a mechanic. It's gotta get fixed though one way or another. It is our only car at the moment. That means no car right now. :helpless:

lincolncadillac
08-06-11, 05:02 PM
There are 6 total bolts / nuts to remove then you should be able to remove the compressor bracket from the smog pump bracket and water pump.

2 on the smog pump side, 2 bolts on the adjustment, and 2 nuts on the water pump

I did not remove the smog pump bracket.

You will probably have to remove the compressor first then the smog pump bracket

water walkin warrior
08-08-11, 01:43 PM
We had a problem with the upper bolt in between the AC compressor and the smog pump. It didn't seem like it wanted to come out without having to kind of bend the bolt as it came out around the compressor. Are you supposed to remove the little bolts that go around the front of the AC compressor (The part that the belt goes on.) and pull off the front of the compressor off?

Doesn't matter much now, it's at the mechanics and hopefully he can get it done by tomorrow.

lincolncadillac
08-08-11, 03:25 PM
The only bolts that should be removed are those 6.

water walkin warrior
08-11-11, 04:42 PM
Gonna pick it up tonight after not having my car for 5 days. Cost $195 mechanic fee +about $60 for parts that I bought. I should have asked how much he charged per hour for labor before dropping it off. He charged $65/hr. I think he bumped his labor up since the last time I talked to him about 6 months ago. I could have sworn he used to be $45. He had a hard time with the brackets too. That made me feel a little better.

lincolncadillac
08-11-11, 07:47 PM
Sometimes it worth the extra money to let somebody else deal with the headache.

brougham
08-12-11, 06:09 PM
That's cheap for labour.

water walkin warrior
08-16-11, 10:01 AM
That's cheap for labour.

I may have to let him do some other things that need to be done if I can't get to them. I did figure out why his price went up a little. He has an assistant that is doing the labor now since the owner of the shop isn't always around there.