: Not-So-Super Supercharger



agp
07-31-11, 03:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfabfTUu86A

Has anyone seen these? Seems like a lot to go through for a very minute hp/torque gain...

Stingroo
07-31-11, 03:23 PM
The "electric supercharger" is one of the oldest snake oil tricks in the book.

Submariner409
07-31-11, 03:39 PM
The "electric supercharger" is one of the oldest snake oil tricks in the book.

Yep ^^^^ - every 5 years since I was a kid.

It all runs in cycles: The "Tornado" whirlygig, the hydrogen generator, the oxygen generator, the magnetic fuel line molecule aligner, the cutesy propellers in the carb spacer, the "oilier" engine oils, the magic fuel additives, the magic engine oil additives, the 100 mpg carburetor, and on and on and on.

Why ?? Because P.T Barnum's "There's a sucker born every minute" is absolutely true.

(Nitrogen in tires is another method of lightening your wallet, too................)

Sevillian273
07-31-11, 03:41 PM
It's not snake oil, its just hardly effective or efficient... 3psi is still boost regardless of whether it comes from a belt, exhaust gas, or an alternator. And a piece of plastic spinning at 40,000 rpm inside the intake sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Submariner409
07-31-11, 03:44 PM
It's not snake oil, its just hardly effective or efficient... 3psi is still boost regardless of whether it comes from a belt, exhaust gas, or an alternator. And a piece of plastic spinning at 40,000 rpm inside the intake sounds like a recipe for disaster.

It's snake oil.

Rodya234
07-31-11, 04:03 PM
I've always wondered why electric superchargers don't work. Is it the way they're designed? Or that an electric motor powerful enough to make real boost would just be huge? In theory it should work, or at least could work.

Sevillian273
07-31-11, 04:25 PM
It's snake oil.

3 pounds per square inch.

gary88
07-31-11, 04:41 PM
3 pounds per square inch.

Snake oil.

Sevillian273
07-31-11, 05:03 PM
I like critical thinking over blanket statements even if I dont get to be in the CF clique. It's hot outside, Is there air conditioning on the band-wagon? I may have to go for a ride.

If the device creates a measurable increase in pressure while maintaining the volume requirement, and if this pressure & volume creates enough of an increase in power to maintain the device's requirements with some to spare, then it works - even if the difference equates to 1hp.

Does the rig in question meet all those requirements? Who knows....

__________________________________________________ __________________________________

Sent from my Dingleberry®

dkozloski
07-31-11, 05:21 PM
Unless you want to wind up with a dead battery you have to draw power from the engine to drive the alternator to recharge it and replace what is used by the electric supercharger. The net result is zero power increase at the flywheel. There ain't no free lunch.

agp
07-31-11, 05:57 PM
Sorry, but what does "snake oil" mean?

Sevillian273
07-31-11, 05:57 PM
All the electric 'superchargers' that I've seen were intended for burst use only. This way the battery recharges when the snake oil machine is not in use.

The 'no free lunch' saying applies to any engine-driven power adder. So what to the standard power adders have over the electric system?

Efficiency.

Stingroo
07-31-11, 06:56 PM
I mean, in theory it could work, but for the price, 3psi seems like not enough.


And yes, there is AC in my band wagon. :lol:

johnny kannapo
07-31-11, 08:42 PM
Twin leaf blowers
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1105_leaf_blower_supercharger/photo_01.html

http://image.hotrod.com/f/30827303+w750+st0/hrdp-1105-01-o+leaf-blower-supercharger+kit.jpg

Sevillian273
07-31-11, 09:01 PM
Those leaf blowers were not designed, built, signed, sponsored, or endorsed by General Motors and there is no mention of them within the Corvette owner's manual therefore they are snake oil. David Freiberger and the Hot Rod team are just trying to fool you into buying Craftsman leaf blowers. It's the oldest trick in the book - slapping yard equipment onto a Corvette to get you to buy it. It's all snake oil!!

Jesda
07-31-11, 10:04 PM
lmao

Rolex
07-31-11, 11:36 PM
These have been discussed here before, and probably on every car forum on the net. These "superchargers" claim 3 psi...that's bull-butter. They will lend more air volume to your intake but they won't create any real boost. Their own video makes mention of how expensive a real supercharger is because "you have to make modifications to the air and fuel delivery systems." Ugh yeah...if you want to make horsepower using boost you will have to modify BOTH.

You'd probably see a few hp gained from adding one to a stock vehicle. But at 44k rpm you're going to make your alternator work it's butt off to keep the battery charged, putting strain on another part of the parasitic drivetrain accessories.

maeng9981
08-01-11, 04:38 AM
Sorry, but what does "snake oil" mean?

It usually means something that is advertised to work in a specific area like sealing the gaskets or give better fuel efficiency but does not really work. Simply something that does not work as advertised. Has the word "oil" in it but it's not really limited to oils.

In the car world there are a lot of these snake oils like "stop leak", "head gasket fix in a bottle", or "electric supercharger" here. These all have common idea: they are intended to be used to replace something that would be expensive or difficult. The result: there is no such thing as a free lunch.

brandondeleo
08-01-11, 04:43 AM
In layman's terms, 'snake oil'=bullshit. Lol

The-Dullahan
08-01-11, 09:12 AM
It's not nearly as efficient as The Turbonator! A traditional Supercharger requires a belt driven rotor, which therefore uses more fuel, as your engine has to run that much harder. An Electric Supercharger uses electricity, meaning you may have one less watt at your disosal, out of the thousands you have at your disposal.

The Turbonator requires...No electricity or gas!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Supercharger-Turbonator-Dual-Air-Intake-Fuel-Saver-Fan-/150499749505?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230a7bee81

I almost want to buy one just so I can write a review about the massive boost in power my '89 Honda Accord received and how it was an even better investment than the airplane wing I nailed to the trunk.

Submariner409
08-01-11, 09:37 AM
I like critical thinking over blanket statements even if I dont get to be in the CF clique.

My blanket statement is based on a lot of critical thinking and engine building experience since 1954 - quite a bit of it involving the old Judson moving vane, early Paxton centrifugal, and various GM Roots superchargers. The electric whirlygig in question is pure snake oil at its finest. Compare it with a turbocharger - either diesel or gasoline installation - and form your own conclusions. Then contact the whirlygig company and get a written guarantee of advertised performance.

You ARE in the CF "clique" - if you refer to "clique" as the frequent posters who spend a considerable part of their free time trying their damndest to keep everyone on the straight and narrow without either spending loads of money on hearsay junk or breaking expensive cars.

EDIT: I LIKE the twin Craftsman leaf blowers. That article belongs in The Harvard Lampoon.

Sevillian273
08-01-11, 08:36 PM
Dont get me wrong, I'm only supporting the theory. The particular device in question is undoubtedly nonsense. The red flag appears at 46 seconds: "Our system does not take power to make power." My argument is that just because it is electric doesnt mean that it is snake oil. Alot of items discussed around here quickly get that label without any disclaim. Most of the time it is because the item does not meet the users expectation.

Seafoam is a good example - useless for an engine in good running condition yet very handy in a dirty/poor maintained one. Additives should be regarded as tools, not performance enhancing magic potions as many buyers expect them to be.

There are a handful of legitimate electric super chargers out there. The most notable one that I recall was a one-off project that used three 1.5kw starter motors to drive a standard centrifugal compressor. I think it made around 6lbs. Heavy and inefficient but it did work. There is also the eRam of the same design in the video (ducted fan)but claims a more realistic 1 psi of boost. I think those fools are charging around half a grand just for that waste of space.

The theory is solid but the products/technology are debatable and unfortunately the tiny flecks of legitimacy that do exist on the subject are awash in a sea of marketing tomfoolery and exaggerated claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!

agp
08-01-11, 09:44 PM
It's not nearly as efficient as The Turbonator! A traditional Supercharger requires a belt driven rotor, which therefore uses more fuel, as your engine has to run that much harder. An Electric Supercharger uses electricity, meaning you may have one less watt at your disosal, out of the thousands you have at your disposal.

The Turbonator requires...No electricity or gas!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Supercharger-Turbonator-Dual-Air-Intake-Fuel-Saver-Fan-/150499749505?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230a7bee81

I almost want to buy one just so I can write a review about the massive boost in power my '89 Honda Accord received and how it was an even better investment than the airplane wing I nailed to the trunk.

If I had a Maserati Gran Turismo I would definitely get one of those things.

Rolex
08-01-11, 10:00 PM
Dont get me wrong, I'm only supporting the theory. The particular device in question is undoubtedly nonsense. The red flag appears at 46 seconds: "Our system does not take power to make power." My argument is that just because it is electric doesnt mean that it is snake oil. Alot of items discussed around here quickly get that label without any disclaim. Most of the time it is because the item does not meet the users expectation.

Seafoam is a good example - useless for an engine in good running condition yet very handy in a dirty/poor maintained one. Additives should be regarded as tools, not performance enhancing magic potions as many buyers expect them to be.

There are a handful of legitimate electric super chargers out there. The most notable one that I recall was a one-off project that used three 1.5kw starter motors to drive a standard centrifugal compressor. I think it made around 6lbs. Heavy and inefficient but it did work. There is also the eRam of the same design in the video (ducted fan)but claims a more realistic 1 psi of boost. I think those fools are charging around half a grand just for that waste of space.

The theory is solid but the products/technology are debatable and unfortunately the tiny flecks of legitimacy that do exist on the subject are awash in a sea of marketing tomfoolery and exaggerated claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!

Beautifully said.

cadillac kevin
08-01-11, 10:42 PM
I have used a few of the magic octane boosts that advertised better mileage, performance and drivability.
did my car get better mileage? um...no.
did it accelerate any quicker...still no.
did it stop that damn knock that would cause the engine to make bad noises and run like shit....not unless I got lucas octane boost or 104+ super. and then it only made the problem more bearable (still happened, but drivability wasnt as bad).
I found the cheaper octane boosts gave no effect on any part of my car (but it did make a small hole in my wallet).

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-02-11, 12:07 AM
Saying that all "mechanic in a can" products are garbage and are snake oil is about as accurate as saying "if you own a northstar cadillac, it will blow a headgasket". Most of those products don't do as advertised, especially if the claims are great and hyperbole, but some work very well and are used by ASE certified mechanics regularly. It depends on the user and situation too, like someone said, they're mostly useless when ran in a properly maintained engine in good tune, but can be very helpful if you're working with a troubled engine.

The-Dullahan
08-02-11, 12:52 AM
I will say this. Seafoam in an ultrasonic cleaning machine will clean a carburetor, but so will almost anything else.

Sevillian273
08-03-11, 09:46 PM
Here's an electric supercharger done right. Roots-style, 20psi capable. 24 volts/several hundred amps.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight_turbo_electric_supercharger/index.html

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m280/merc892003/1233087185.jpg

Submariner409
08-04-11, 10:57 AM
I will say this. Seafoam in an ultrasonic cleaning machine will clean a carburetor, but so will almost anything else.

I have used Seafoam mixed with mineral spirits (paint thinner) to clean engine parts and bolts for many years.............. and that's the ONLY thing I would ever use it for.

The-Dullahan
08-13-11, 04:02 AM
Paint Thinner. One of my greatest allies...

Night Wolf
08-13-11, 10:38 PM
I like Seafoam and use it in my vehicles. Even in my Jeep which has been maintained very well and the engine is internally clean it made quite a noticeable difference.

An engine running on gasoline produces byproducts of combustion such as carbon, that can't be denied. Look/touch the inside of the tail pipe. For comparison, look at the inside of the tail pipe on a CNG vehicle. At work there is an old CNG Chevy work pickup truck with higher miles, the yucky early 90s style but the inside of the tail pipe looks like it was just pulled off the shelf.

After I put a used oil pump in the 528e so it actually developed more than 5psi oil pressure in the last 2 years, I took it down to Florida on a trip and was going to do an oil change once back home. The can says to 1.5oz per qt or so can be added to the crankcase. I decided to pour a whole can (16oz IIRC) in it and drive the ~500 miles back. The oil coming out was real nice and black. I did that one or two more times on the oil changes since. Soon I'll be pulling the valve cover to adjust the valves again, it'll be neat to see how much it cleaned up the engine. At 276k it's still kickin' with no signs of stopping.

I also add it to the gas, but sucking it thru the intake works best. Let it suck most up by idling then stall it out when the can is almost empty. Wait 30-40mins, start it up, start driving - once at operating temp run it hard and fast, wide open to redline several times and blow out all the junk till there is no more smoke.

When I used to work at an auto parts store, a lot of the stuff was snake oil and I wouldn't reccomend it - but Seafoam is the real deal.

I still remember a guy coming in wearing a shirt for a Toyota divsion of a popular dealer franchise in the Tampa Bay area. He was buying head gasket in a bottle junk. I laughed and said you are really going to use that in your car? He laughed back and said hell no, we just got an old beater in on trade and need to sell fast. Needless to say I will never shop or reccomend any dealer under that umbrella ever again.

Night Wolf
08-13-11, 10:51 PM
As for the electric super charger, why so quick to discredit it? Sure it requires battery power which needs to be charged by the alternator - so what?

Understanding that more power, or boost isn't needed unless the engine was already at wide open throttle (otherwise there is already power on tap) then it would only be used at such a time. It would draw power from an isolated battery that would be setup not to be charged by the alternator while the engine is at WOT. Once below that point (when max power is no longer required) the alternator will then charge the battery back, so yes - it'll be using engine power but at a time when the engine has lots of spare power avalible. The A/C clutch works on the same concept. I'd play around with a system like this just because it is different and many seem to think it won't work.

Of course, more air means more fuel. We aren't talking about running 20psi of boost, and most all modern fuel injected automobile engines have a means of monitoring how much air is entering the engine, so it can add the correct amount of fuel. A small amount of boost should work within the parameters of the stock ECU.

Even works with NAWWZZZZZ!!!!

OrDe1md6AWg

An engine is just a glorified air pump...