: PS2 tire wear question



OldRoadDawg
07-27-11, 04:30 PM
I replaced the rear PS2s today after 17,900 miles and noticed tread depth on the inboard side of both tires was still around 5/32" versus maybe 2/32" along the outboard... well into the tread wear bars.

Is that a normal wear pattern for rear tires on a V... or an alignment issue?

Vehicle has previously had three 4 wheel alignments, starting at 5K miles and as recently at 14K. Predominantly interstate driving. No other issues, other than I've always thought from day one that the PS2 tire was a noisy tire. Would have replaced them with something different, but 4 new PS2s only cost me $1400,including mounting/balancing.

serturbo
07-27-11, 05:00 PM
My experience with RWD cars show the opposite of what you experienced. Mine normally show more wear on the inside and my V doesn't seem to differ from that trend.

baabootoo
07-27-11, 05:21 PM
If you don't track the car, that isn't normal to me. When I kept the pressures right, they wore dead even across the tire. Only until I tracked them, did the outsides start wearing more then.

cbloveday
07-27-11, 06:06 PM
some history and pics of my rear tires:

Bought car in 2009 June
removed removed summer wheel/tire set in Nov 2009 and replaced with winter wheels/tire set
rotated from 2009 summer and put back on summer wheel/tire set April 2010
removed summer wheel/tire set in November 2010 and replaced with rotated and winter wheel/tire set
rotated 2010 summer/wheel tire set and removed winter/set and installed summer set April 2011.

I have 25,000 miles on my car. Had 300 miles when bought. Each time I install new set I carefully look at wear bars and uniformity of tread wear. I saw nothing unusual when the summer wheel tire set was put on in april 2011.

So here we are starting 5th month of wear in 2011.
I always keep them inflated (via a professional tire pressure tool) to 35lbs cold.
Unless I am missing something, I am getting wear on the outside.

RIGHT TIRE
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/tread%20wear/DSC_0201.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/tread%20wear/DSC_0202.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/tread%20wear/DSC_0203.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/tread%20wear/DSC_0204.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/tread%20wear/DSC_0205.jpg





LEFT TIRE
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/tread%20wear/DSC_0206.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/tread%20wear/DSC_0207.jpg


I am having my Conti ExtremeContact DWs installed Friday :D

thebigjimsho
07-27-11, 07:08 PM
Is it 2/32 on only the outside tread block? Or across a wider swath towards the middle? Because the outer block has a carcass that sits at a higher base than the rest of the tire. You can wear it down bare and still drive on it for a while. Of course, you lose hydroplane resistance...

EVIL_C5
07-27-11, 07:23 PM
My v has 11k miles and my fronts are almost done on the outside edge. I was in a heavy rain the other day and didn't like the feeling at all. But I have tracked my car

thebigjimsho
07-27-11, 09:00 PM
My v has 11k miles and my fronts are almost done on the outside edge. I was in a heavy rain the other day and didn't like the feeling at all. But I have tracked my carYou can wear down the outside fronts VERY quickly. The front pressures need to be bumped up to prevent that...

EVIL_C5
07-27-11, 09:17 PM
Now you tell me.....lol

OldRoadDawg
07-27-11, 09:35 PM
I always keep them inflated (via a professional tire pressure tool) to 35lbs cold.
Unless I am missing something, I am getting wear on the outside.

RIGHT TIRE
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/tread%20wear/DSC_0201.jpg


Curtis, I didn't take any photos, but my tires look almost identical to yours.
Guess I'll just monitor this new set even closer.

cbloveday
07-27-11, 10:49 PM
Well if there is a problem then, we both have it. I couldn't be more watchful of tire pressure than I have been. I check them with the hand gauge and also with the sensors via the DIC all the time. I also rotate every season and closely look at the tread wear each time they are off the car.
This is the first time I have seen this uneven wear. I only use them April to November so I do not know what else I could do.

When looking at my mileage and driving habits on the street, I figure I have gotten about 18,000 miles out of them.

Only other thing I can think of is, perhaps Jesse's Dyno rollers are at an angle. :)

I doubt there is an alignment issue. I will talk to the dealership Friday as well. See if they can see if I am in need of an alignment or shed any light on it.

I found this information on our dilema:

One Side Wear
When an inner or outer rib wears faster than than the rest of the tire, the need for wheel alignment is indicated. There is excessive camber in the front suspension, causing the wheel to lean too much to the inside or outside and putting too much load on one side of the tire. The car may simply need the wheels aligned, but misalignment could be due to sagging springs, worn ball joints, or worn control arm bushings. Because load has a great affect on alignment, be sure the car is loaded the way it's normally driven when you have the wheels aligned; this is particularly important with independent rear suspension cars.

In reading this, it immediately made me wonder if the heavier LSX is the culprit, but you have the stock block, correct? So that rules that out.
I thought about my springs, as I go to the strip but there are people that go a heck of alot more often than me on stock tires and have not heard report of this uneven wear.

I will let you know what I find out.

cbloveday
07-28-11, 09:51 AM
The only other thing that has changed is I had the tie rod TSB done. I do not recall if the TSB requires an alignment.
Wonder if an alignment is part of the TSB and it was not done. Have you had the TSB done and if so when?


edit: I called dealer and my SA said and alignment was done when the tie rod TSB was performed.
We will hook the car up to the machine and check alignment, when I am there tomorrow having new tires put on.

OldRoadDawg
07-28-11, 02:45 PM
Have you had the TSB done and if so when?
I did have the tie rod recall done back in April and an alignment was done at that time.

However, I was noticing even before then, the uneven wear pattern, although it became more noticeable as the tires wore down closer to the wear bars.
I have another issue going on up front with the steering, so I am going to have them re-check everything relative to the steering rack/alignment/shock function next Monday morn.

lavaman
07-28-11, 02:55 PM
The only other thing that has changed is I had the tie rod TSB done. I do not recall if the TSB requires an alignment.
Wonder if an alignment is part of the TSB and it was not done. Have you had the TSB done and if so when?


edit: I called dealer and my SA said and alignment was done when the tie rod TSB was performed.
We will hook the car up to the machine and check alignment, when I am there tomorrow having new tires put on.


Curtis, See if you can get your hands on a before/after printout to share with the class. My money is on excessive positive rear toe angle.

cbloveday
07-28-11, 02:58 PM
Will do Doug. I think it may have been done when the TSB was performed.

edit:

I just looked at the front tires as well and all 4 are exhibiting what appears to be excessive positive camber.

cbloveday
07-29-11, 02:10 PM
PS2s were defintely out of alignment.

No wonder my dyno and 1/4 mile times were off....... LOL

I questioned whether the LSA to LSX engine swap and Heat exchanger caused this. For those getting an LSX, I would encourage a post alignment check. Not saying the change in weight of the engine block and or heat exchanger caused the mis-alignment, just saying check yours.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/IMG00096-20110729-0845.jpg



The proper alignment specs were provided by GMX322V S/C back in October, 2010
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/2009Valignmentspecs.png






The PS2s were properly disposed of...................
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/IMG00098-20110729-12231.jpg

Cheers

neuronbob
07-29-11, 06:24 PM
^^^^
:rofl: Made my whole day.

lavaman
07-30-11, 11:14 AM
PS2s were defintely out of alignment.

No wonder my dyno and 1/4 mile times were off....... LOL

I questioned whether the LSA to LSX engine swap and Heat exchanger caused this. For those getting an LSX, I would encourage a post alignment check. Not saying the change in weight of the engine block and or heat exchanger caused the mis-alignment, just saying check yours.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/IMG00096-20110729-0845.jpg



The proper alignment specs were provided by GMX322V S/C back in October, 2010
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/2009Valignmentspecs.png






The PS2s were properly disposed of...................


Cheers


With the displayed (before) alignment I would suspect a slight pull to the right in your car Curtis.

Knowing how you use the car at the strip... if I were to make the adjustments to your car's alignment, I would have the final angles to read: (Front wheels) ...-1.2 Camber on both wheels, 6.2 Caster (L/F) 6.4 (R/F), .20 (Total Toe)

(Rear wheels) ... -1.3 Camber (Both) .05 Toe on each for a Total Toe of .1

The higher than nominal (but still within spec) caster angle is for straight line high speed stability.

By chance did you get a pic of the finished job??

Additional weight from the engine/exchanger could effect the alignment, but I would suspect to see similar effect on both left/right sides... not just one.

cbloveday
07-30-11, 01:16 PM
No Doug, I did not get the final specs. I suspect they were stock. I will see if they will do the re-alignment for me.
Thanks a bunch..

barryg
08-01-11, 09:36 PM
No Doug, I did not get the final specs. I suspect they were stock. I will see if they will do the re-alignment for me.
Thanks a bunch..

Curtis,
My rear tires looked exactly like yours. I too had the TSB performed on the rear tie rods. Had an alignment today and all 4 corners were out of spec. Only put 2,000 miles on her since the TSB, seems fast for these beasts to get out of alignment.

cbloveday
08-01-11, 10:21 PM
Yes, especially since part of the TSB is to do an alignment.

FFBOS
08-01-11, 10:51 PM
CBloveday,

As a fellow Chicago person, what are you using for a winter setup. I'm currently looking at options and was wondering with whatever you have.....do you run stock sizes or a standard size all around. I would PM, but they are disabled.

Thanks :)

cbloveday
08-01-11, 11:03 PM
I have a dedicated set of polished rims shod with sotto zeros in OEM stock size. This will be my third winter. I drive the car daily. No problems.
You'll find many running sottos.

FFBOS
08-01-11, 11:07 PM
Good to hear. Thank you