: Got another daily beater, 93 MB 300E



Destroyer
06-16-11, 08:55 PM
Wasn't looking for it but simply could not resist the sweet deal I got on this one. It's a dark metallic gray w/light gray interior '93 Mercedes 300E w/94k miles on the odometer. I fell in love with the color combo and overall condition and the price (too low to mention). In and out it is very clean but it has a few mechanical issues that need to be taken care of (hope it's not too costly). Owner of the car died just a few days ago and the guy settling the estate sold it to me. Anyway here is a pic of the car after I test drove it. I pick it up tomorrow.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg

EcSTSatic
06-16-11, 10:58 PM
I hope that was not a mistake. I've had 2 older MBZs, they are expensive to maintain.

ejguillot
06-16-11, 11:08 PM
Doesn't sound like a mistake to me. MB still built long term quality in those days, and a 300E shouldn't have the overcomplication of the S class.

Destroyer
06-16-11, 11:18 PM
Mistake or not, I like the car and that's all that matters. I am willing to spend money keeping cars I actually like on the road. I drive an extended E250 van as my company/work van. I love the big Ford but it's killing me as far as gas goes. I figured I would get an economy car for times I don't NEED to drive my E250 and I did. I bought a ZX2 Escort. Clean car, sunroof, all power accessories, cd changer and all but I absolutely HATE it and am not comfortable in it at all. I never felt so much a loser as when I drive that car. I regularly check Craigslist and stumbled upon this car. Having owned a few already I kinda know what I'm in for. My other's were '87 models and although they looked the same there were differences inside and under the hood. I'll take some better pics of this car after I get it tomorrow. I now have 5 cars, I need to sell the Escort.

Night Wolf
06-16-11, 11:25 PM
Very nice! Low mileage too! That is from a time MB was still building tanks.

On one of the gearhead BMW sites I visit, the recent discussion came about about the 500E dubbed the "German muscle car" Interesting read!

I take it that has the 3.0L I6? mmmm I6...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-16-11, 11:30 PM
The W124 debuted about seven years before the W140, so it's a bit smaller and simpler than what I'm used to, but I remember reading on the Benz sites years back that the W124 was a real diehard car....would run and run and run and be fairly (!!!!) cheap to own for what it is. I'm pretty sure Jesda's dad has had one for like 15 years and it keeps on chugging.

I love them old Benzos, nobody built a car as solid as they did. They all feel like bank vaults...

Destroyer
06-16-11, 11:30 PM
Very nice! Low mileage too! That is from a time MB was still building tanks.

On one of the gearhead BMW sites I visit, the recent discussion came about about the 500E dubbed the "German muscle car" Interesting read!

I take it that has the 3.0L I6? mmmm I6...Thanks Rick. Motor looks different from my '87's. It is an I6 but I believe it' s the same 3.2L my S320 had. Looks just like it. I'll have to check it out.

Playdrv4me
06-16-11, 11:31 PM
Were the Escort not in fact such a loser car, I'd buy it from you today. Unfortunately, the 300 is far more up my alley.

As long as the A/C isn't broken and the headgasket is good, there shouldn't be anything too expensive to repair.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-16-11, 11:36 PM
My Mercedes book says it's the same 3.2L our S320s had.

gdwriter
06-16-11, 11:36 PM
I like that generation E-Class. Bank vault solid. Definitely a step up from that Escort. If you like cars and enjoy driving, it's definitely worthwhile not to settle.

Night Wolf
06-16-11, 11:44 PM
Nice, sounds like a great engine. I take it that it doesn't have all the "extras" for squeezing more power out of it the later S-class models did? I remember Chad mentioning a slew of stuff on them.

Still tho, I'd put a MB I6 down as a "solid old tank" engine that'll keep going!

Everytime I see a W126, I want to get one. Then I ask myself what the heck would I do with it? Then I say it wouldn't matter...

Destroyer
06-16-11, 11:44 PM
My Mercedes book says it's the same 3.2L our S320s had.Yeah I knew it. I know you had problems with yours, I didn't with mine but I didn't own it that long either. Hopefully I can fix the issues this one has and have a reliable car. You know it's gotta be pretty quick with this motor. The S320 went pretty good from a roll up to top speed and this is lighter. We shall see.

Night Wolf
06-16-11, 11:48 PM
dood, your PM box - clear it

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-16-11, 11:53 PM
217hp and 229 lb/ft in the early 3.2L's, by '99 it was 228hp/232 lb/ft. The W140s weighed in around 4500 lbs with the I-6, and the 300E is about 3500 lbs, so it'll be a lot quicker.

Destroyer
06-17-11, 12:00 AM
dood, your PM box - clear itCleared!

Night Wolf
06-17-11, 12:02 AM
Nice! My e28 is around 3100lbs and moves decently enough with the eta M20, SOHC 2.7L I6. New was 121hp/170ft-lbs tq. Though the 5spd manual helps out greatly - no doubt an extra 100hp and 60ft-lbs would make it scream, even with a little extra weight - when I drove it to FL with the Jeep transmission, clutch kit, battery anf travel stuff it was probably already over that limit. That thing should move out quite well. Is it using the same 4spd auto as the W123 or did they update the trans?

Destroyer
06-17-11, 12:05 AM
217hp and 229 lb/ft in the early 3.2L's, by '99 it was 228hp/232 lb/ft. The W140s weighed in around 4500 lbs with the I-6, and the 300E is about 3500 lbs, so it'll be a lot quicker.The car has an issue with the "ASR" coming on and off. When the ASR light is on it goes into limp mode. This is the problem with the car. In limp mode the tranny wont shift unless you take your foot off the gas pedal then give it gas again. It also does not like to accelerate fast from a dead stop. When the light is off, the car feels great. Now I have to get this fixed. I am wondering if the ASR can simply be disabled by yanking a fuse. I doubt it but I'll find out tomorrow. I don't think the earlier W140's had this. I had a tough time debating whether I should buy this car. When I offered the crazy cheap amount I did and the estate guy took it, it was a no brainer.

gdwriter
06-17-11, 12:06 AM
When I drove Chad's S320, I was surprised -- and impressed -- by how well it accelerated for a six in such a big, heavy car. It should be very responsive and fun in the much lighter 300E.

Night Wolf
06-17-11, 12:10 AM
The car has an issue with the "ASR" coming on and off. When the ASR light is on it goes into limp mode. This is the problem with the car. In limp mode the tranny wont shift unless you take your foot off the gas pedal then give it gas again. It also does not like to accelerate fast from a dead stop. When the light is off, the car feels great. Now I have to get this fixed. I am wondering if the ASR can simply be disabled by yanking a fuse. I doubt it but I'll find out tomorrow. I don't think the earlier W140's had this. I had a tough time debating whether I should buy this car. When I offered the crazy cheap amount I did and the estate guy took it, it was a no brainer.

I'd imagine there would be a way to disable it or trick it... then again my MB knowledge is very little and from what I've gathered on the model-spefic old BMW sites - the MB of that era are a lot more difficult/expensive to repair even as DIY. How true it is, I dunno - I'd like to tear into one though!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-17-11, 12:14 AM
I'd hardly call the S320's 0-60 time of 8.7 seconds quick, but that little 3.2L I-6 did well for how heavy that damn car was. Performance was decent around town, but on the highway, especially above 80, performance was eye opening. I did over a buck thirty in it a couple of times without much strain or stress. It would do 90-100 easy with three or four people seated comfortably and conversing easily in it's spacious cabin.


Damn it, I really miss that car.

Destroyer
06-17-11, 12:32 AM
When I drove Chad's S320, I was surprised -- and impressed -- by how well it accelerated for a six in such a big, heavy car. It should be very responsive and fun in the much lighter 300E.I had the same car as Chad and I've had a few 300E's. The MB I6 is a great motor. It moves out well and sounds good doing it all the way up the rpm's. I'm not overplaying it as a drag car but it gives more than most drivers and passengers expect.

Destroyer
06-17-11, 12:34 AM
I'd hardly call the S320's 0-60 time of 8.7 seconds quick, but that little 3.2L I-6 did well for how heavy that damn car was. Performance was decent around town, but on the highway, especially above 80, performance was eye opening. I did over a buck thirty in it a couple of times without much strain or stress. It would do 90-100 easy with three or four people seated comfortably and conversing easily in it's spacious cabin.


Damn it, I really miss that car.I look forward to getting this car fixed. I have always considered the E class just a smaller version of the S class and you know how much I like those..........

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-17-11, 12:39 AM
The headgasket on my S320 failed, but IIRC, it just leaked oil externally, so it wasn't the end of the motor if I didn't fix it (it was covered under my extended warranty).

Aron9000
06-17-11, 01:27 AM
That's a great Mercedes Destroyer. Hope it isn't too much hassle/coin to fix it. ASR??? Is that traction control or did they have stability control on them all the way back then?

I've always felt the inline six in the S-Class was a little silly, at least here in American, the land of formerly cheap gas. If you're buying the top of the line, big freaking heavy Benz, might as well get the V8. Although the inline six makes perfect sense in the E and C class cars since they aren't nearly as heavy.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-17-11, 01:34 AM
I agree Aaron, but what's weird is that most of the W140s that I see nowadays are S320s.

ga_etc
06-17-11, 02:42 AM
Good looking car Destroyer! Then again, I really don't expect anything less from you. One of these days, when I have some money, you're going to have to hook me up with one your bargains.

Playdrv4me
06-17-11, 02:46 AM
Wow, that ASR system is a bitch, in typical Merc fashion. On the Seville, Stabilitrak had apparently been activating on the road after receiving faulty inputs from the steering angle position sensor in the steering wheel for Jesda. Easy fix, pull the ABS fuse which is connected to traction and Stabilitrak. I since put the fuse back in and it hasn't done it to me, but I'm sure I'll get a rude awakening soon enough.

Here's a possible workaround for ASR:
"But until it’s fixed, I performed a little trick that was mentioned in one of the many ASR posts: connect pin 6 on the Diag Connector (38 pin) to pin 1 (ground). This forces the ASR module in the diagnostic mode and it returns the car to a normal accelerator pedal. In fact, in a short drive, the car seemed to have a bit more power. That probably was my imagination. Of course you have NO ASR!

But now the ASR light is on. So to kill that, insulate pin 29 on connector 1 of the ABS/ASR [N30/1] module by using a strong but thin tape. The MIL signal comes from this module and lights the ASR lamp located in the IC. The ASR light will still light when the ignition is turned to position 1 but will go out after the car is started. No chance of it coming on. I don’t recommend this as a permanent fix but this will kill the glare of the very bright orange ASR light without pulling the IC and removing the lamp."

From a very good ASR info page...

http://www.k6jrf.com/MB_asr.html

If you can disable it altogether, you may as well. It's not like you need it in FL.

Destroyer
06-17-11, 08:02 AM
Wow, that ASR system is a bitch, in typical Merc fashion. On the Seville, Stabilitrak had apparently been activating on the road after receiving faulty inputs from the steering angle position sensor in the steering wheel for Jesda. Easy fix, pull the ABS fuse which is connected to traction and Stabilitrak. I since put the fuse back in and it hasn't done it to me, but I'm sure I'll get a rude awakening soon enough.

Here's a possible workaround for ASR:
"But until itís fixed, I performed a little trick that was mentioned in one of the many ASR posts: connect pin 6 on the Diag Connector (38 pin) to pin 1 (ground). This forces the ASR module in the diagnostic mode and it returns the car to a normal accelerator pedal. In fact, in a short drive, the car seemed to have a bit more power. That probably was my imagination. Of course you have NO ASR!

But now the ASR light is on. So to kill that, insulate pin 29 on connector 1 of the ABS/ASR [N30/1] module by using a strong but thin tape. The MIL signal comes from this module and lights the ASR lamp located in the IC. The ASR light will still light when the ignition is turned to position 1 but will go out after the car is started. No chance of it coming on. I donít recommend this as a permanent fix but this will kill the glare of the very bright orange ASR light without pulling the IC and removing the lamp."

From a very good ASR info page...

http://www.k6jrf.com/MB_asr.html

If you can disable it altogether, you may as well. It's not like you need it in FL.Thanks for researching this for me Ian. You may actually have talked me out of buying the car. I'm seriously debating whether or not I need these headaches right now. It's 8 am and I'm supposed to pay for and pick up the car in an hour. I may just let the guy keep my deposit and let it go. Thanks man. :(

EcSTSatic
06-17-11, 08:22 AM
Like I said....expensive.

Night Wolf
06-17-11, 01:10 PM
you can disable ASR -and- turn the light off all by jumping wires on the diagnostic connector? Sounds like a quick, cheap, easy and effective way to me. I'd disable it then pull the cluster to remove the bulb. ASR is just the traction control, correct? Not needed :)

Destroyer
06-17-11, 07:21 PM
I chickened out, lol. Yes the ASR is traction control but if I read Ian's link right, it didn't work. The guy bypassed it and it started going into limp mode again. He got another throttle body actuator and that seemed to fix it. Anyway, I left the guy a lower offer and told him if he doesn't get a better offer by next week I'll take it.

Playdrv4me
06-18-11, 12:36 AM
Well, it certainly can't hurt. And if you get it cheaper then all the better.

The throttle body actuator was a problem on one of my E46 BMWs too, I believe it was my 1999 328i. Would exhibit exactly the same behavior now that I remember.

Night Wolf
06-18-11, 12:38 AM
The '93 E-class had throttle by wire?

Playdrv4me
06-18-11, 12:51 AM
Yep, and apparently that particular model had a problem with the ETA (Electronic Throttle Actuator) according to this post on BenzWorld...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1348522-1993-300e-3-2-i-need.html#post2628142

I suspect that is the problem.

This is why stepping on the throttle of a Merc has felt like mush for as long as I can remember. Somehow, BMW managed to keep the throttle crisp even at light pressure, but almost every other car I've owned with an electronic throttle has an annoying delay between throttle blip and actual movement (which is why the SprintBooster is so popular among enthusiasts).

ben.gators
06-18-11, 01:58 AM
^
No offense Destroyer, but that is so Toyota! :D

Jesda
06-18-11, 02:01 AM
My dad's W124 is a 1995 E320, black/black. I think he puts 1000 miles on it a year. He's had to do some stuff with the driveline u-joints and other rubber bits expected for a 100k+ mileage car, but otherwise its MINT and hasn't given any trouble. I hope his evaporator doesn't cause him any trouble as they tend to do on W124s and W140s -- its a $1500+ fix that's not easy to do yourself. Fortunately, it doesn't happen to all W124s.

Great looking car. Enjoy the ride. :)

mhamilton
06-18-11, 02:57 PM
Yep, and apparently that particular model had a problem with the ETA (Electronic Throttle Actuator) according to this post on BenzWorld...

If that's like the W140 throttle actuator, you can pop them open and replace the deteriorated wiring.

Not to drag this thread off topic, but how is that new Jag? I'm still curious to know how it compares with the N* drivetrain in terms of performance. I know the x308 had the 4.0L with a 5 speed, I'm contemplating an x350 4.2L with the 6 speed. I'm guessing they are also high-rpm screamers like the N*, but hoping the additional gearing allows them to get off the line without flooring it at every stop.

Night Wolf
06-18-11, 04:55 PM
Yep, and apparently that particular model had a problem with the ETA (Electronic Throttle Actuator) according to this post on BenzWorld...

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1348522-1993-300e-3-2-i-need.html#post2628142

I suspect that is the problem.

This is why stepping on the throttle of a Merc has felt like mush for as long as I can remember. Somehow, BMW managed to keep the throttle crisp even at light pressure, but almost every other car I've owned with an electronic throttle has an annoying delay between throttle blip and actual movement (which is why the SprintBooster is so popular among enthusiasts).

I didn't know that about those MB. Every vehicle with electronic throttle I've driven has been a disapointment (throttle wise). I never though so much about the thottle pedal before I started driving newer cars with throttle by wire. Just as you describe, it's like pushing mush with no connection to anything and the delay is annoying. I've yet to drive a newer BMW with it to see how they compare.

Destroyer
06-19-11, 07:13 AM
Not to drag this thread off topic, but how is that new Jag? I'm still curious to know how it compares with the N* drivetrain in terms of performance. I know the x308 had the 4.0L with a 5 speed, I'm contemplating an x350 4.2L with the 6 speed. I'm guessing they are also high-rpm screamers like the N*, but hoping the additional gearing allows them to get off the line without flooring it at every stop.The Jag feels like an old muscle car with the traction control off. The specs are probably similar to a N* car. 0-60 in 6.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in the 14 second range and tops out at 150. The big difference is the RWD. The Jag will burn rubber off the tires if you floor it with the T/C off. We have had the car about a year now and put 16k miles on it and it has been rock solid reliable (knock on wood).

mhamilton
06-19-11, 07:54 AM
The Jag feels like an old muscle car with the traction control off. The specs are probably similar to a N* car. 0-60 in 6.9 seconds, 1/4 mile in the 14 second range and tops out at 150. The big difference is the RWD. The Jag will burn rubber off the tires if you floor it with the T/C off. We have had the car about a year now and put 16k miles on it and it has been rock solid reliable (knock on wood).

Ah okay, thanks :) Sounds like they did a good job with the smaller V8. I figured both the Jag and N* were rev happy, but I should go and test drive one. The thing I hate about the N* is how dead it is under 4000rpm. Especially with the 3.11 gearing, it's just plain slow off the line (unless you put your foot into it). I'm sure VVT helps in the Jag, plus the extra gears.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-19-11, 08:27 AM
Damn, if the Jaguar is that reliable, then maybe if I bought one of those instead of the S320, I'd still have it now...... (not likely).... lol

For you Nick, is the Jaguar more reliable and trouble free than your S320 was?

stoveguyy
06-19-11, 12:18 PM
now, find a nice low mile 400E.

orconn
06-19-11, 01:42 PM
Damn, if the Jaguar is that reliable, then maybe if I bought one of those instead of the S320, I'd still have it now...... (not likely).... lol

For you Nick, is the Jaguar more reliable and trouble free than your S320 was?

When talking about cars in general, and more complex "luxury" cars in particular, I think it comes down to the particular car and your luck of the draw. I have had good luck with Jaguars, but I know many folks who were not as lucky. This goes double for used Jags. I think the rule "if you can't afford to buy one new, you can't afford the maintenance on a used one" still is the best advice!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-19-11, 08:13 PM
The stigma with Jaguar is that the older ones are all unreliable as hell (thank you Lucas electrics), but after FoMoCo bought them out, it improved. I do believe in the last few years, JD Powers tests always showed the recent Jaguars as being the MOST reliable in the luxury field, even outdoing Lexus.

Destroyer
06-19-11, 08:41 PM
Damn, if the Jaguar is that reliable, then maybe if I bought one of those instead of the S320, I'd still have it now...... (not likely).... lol

For you Nick, is the Jaguar more reliable and trouble free than your S320 was?I really didn't have any problems with the S320 other than an electrical problem with the power side mirror on the passenger side. I think I put about the same miles on the S320 that I (wife mostly) put on the Jag so far. The Jaguar does have some issues though, check engine light is on (02 sensor) and it likes to wear the inner parts of the tires. The 02 sensor I don't care about as the car runs great and the tire wear issue I think I solved with an alignment. The Benz also had lower miles 73k vs 91k on the Jag (when purchased). If you are to buy a Jag of this type make sure it's an '02-'03 or an older model with the I-6. The '98-'01 V8 motors had issues that were fixed by '02. This goes for the XKE and the XJ8.

Playdrv4me
06-20-11, 05:09 AM
Yep, the '98 to '01.5 models had issues with the Nikasil cylinder liners just like the BMWs... I'd avoid them like the plague as there's just too much mystery to deal with even if the car runs well now. The I-6s had some issues with Headgaskets, but I think they are a good motor overall.