: So what will GM do to the 2012 or 2013 V to compete with the new M5?



neuronbob
06-15-11, 08:06 PM
Some details revealed here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q2/2012_bmw_m5-official_photos_and_info

It is reported to have four more crank hp than our V. Definite on the twin-turbo 4.4 liter V8. Sounds like it will be a fun ride. Must be a high-revver given the smaller displacement compared to our LSA.

So will GM tune in another little bit of hp for the current V to beat BMW? Judging from our experience on this forum, should be super-easy to do.

jwa999
06-15-11, 08:28 PM
Current 2010 m5 Base Curb Weight: 4012 lbs. The new V8 will probably be lighter, so the V needs to lose a couple of 100lbs...

zirotti
06-15-11, 08:37 PM
But the V will have 50 more lb-ft... and cost $30k less

smackdownsrt
06-15-11, 08:51 PM
^ Exactly! And Cadillac came out with a similar maintenance plan too. Too bad it doesn't cover brakes but BMW has that added into the cost.

SleepTight
06-15-11, 09:14 PM
A lot more detail on the new M5 over at Bimmerpost. http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544860

jamesdean65
06-15-11, 09:42 PM
0-100km (0-62mph) in 4.4 seconds......lol

smackdownsrt
06-15-11, 09:53 PM
^ Could be underrated.

neuronbob
06-15-11, 10:05 PM
But the V will have 50 more lb-ft... and cost $30k less

This all day long. I should have mentioned that in the first post.

ultimateendz
06-15-11, 10:06 PM
^ Could be underrated.

agreed....especially since every turbo car BMW has put out since the 335 has been underrated power and 0-60 wise

haterinc
06-15-11, 10:08 PM
I wish the outside was as impressive as the engine bay. That looks amazing as always. I like the front end looking a lil more stretched, but the rest is pretty vanilla; I'd swear their design engineers are closet Pontiac fans. Other than the obvious 1-upmanship with 560hp, 20" rims, 295 rear tires, for a car with more hp and 200lbs lighter I'd hope those performance numbers are understated.

SleepTight
06-15-11, 10:11 PM
I'd be very surprised if the new M5 doesn't beat the V's performance numbers in just about every significant category. That's just the nature of competition. Lord knows BMW has been working on the new M5 long enough

ultimateendz
06-15-11, 10:15 PM
they are also working on a beefed up version of the X6M....has a working dome vent on the hood and everything....wouldnt be surprised if it gets upwards of 600hp.....also wouldnt be surprised if the M5 gets that down the line either

The Tony Show
06-15-11, 10:16 PM
It's entirely possible BMW could be confident enough to think that they won't lose customers to Cadillac and are just ignoring the CTS-V.

I'm not saying it's likely, but it's not unprecedented either. Everyone's vulnerable to hubris, especially when you have the entire media fawning all over your product.

smackdownsrt
06-15-11, 10:20 PM
Actually it might hurt lease sales. How is the residual on the BMW? For the CTS-V it's 46% through Ally for 39 months.

Florian
06-16-11, 12:07 AM
The Bimmer has a nicer fit and finish with better appointments than the plastic V....but thats why you pay another 30K.

F

Domsz06
06-16-11, 12:10 AM
I personally don't care for bmw's. It's a nice car, but to mod it you spend 5 times the dollar then the V. Everyone likes their own things, I'll keep my V anyday.

neuronbob
06-16-11, 12:21 AM
The Bimmer has a nicer fit and finish with better appointments than the plastic V....but thats why you pay another 30K.

F

Too true. I like BMWs in general, the fit and finish is good, and the driving experience is divine. However, the $30k I saved by purchasing a V instead went to my son's education. :)

GM-4-LIFE
06-16-11, 01:28 AM
I personally don't care for bmw's. It's a nice car, but to mod it you spend 5 times the dollar then the V. Everyone likes their own things, I'll keep my V anyday.

I agree 100%! BMWs never did anything for me. I could care less about them. I think they are overpriced and way overated for what they are and the quality of BMWs is sub-par from what I have seen first hand. I love my V. I wouldn't trade it for anything out there.

SleepTight
06-16-11, 03:04 AM
A very helpful table by 5Post comparing the official F10 M5 production stats and specs with the 2012 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG and the 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan.

Table here (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545203).

Edit Note that a number of posters caught the fact that the CTS-V's 0-60 time in the table should have been 3.9 seconds rather than the listed time of 4.4 seconds.:hmm:

King335i
06-16-11, 06:36 AM
Yeah, I hate to say it but due to some quality-control issues I'm having with my car I will probably be making the switch to the new M5. That is if I can somehow justify that to myself and to my bank account. It is a fairly boring looking car though, the V looks menacing and poised, while the BMW looks very reserved and somewhat bland; with some slight visual mods it could probably be a lot more aggressive. I'm also very curious to hear exactly what the exhaust note sounds like, and not from videos made by BMW. I would be totally batshit in love with my V and wouldn't even look twice at the M5 if I didn't have these problems...

King335i
06-16-11, 06:37 AM
A very helpful table by 5Post comparing the official F10 M5 production stats and specs with the 2012 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG and the 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan.

Table here (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545203).

Edit Note that a number of posters caught the fact that the CTS-V's 0-60 time in the table should have been 3.9 seconds rather than the listed time of 4.4 seconds.:hmm:


You'll notice that I'm one of those who corrected them :)

aceofblitz
06-16-11, 07:11 AM
Forget the stock specs, I can't wait to see what an increase in boost will do for the M5. Knowing that the dual clutch has limits on how much it can handle, I wonder what the limit is.

Domsz06
06-16-11, 08:47 AM
Yeah, I hate to say it but due to some quality-control issues I'm having with my car I will probably be making the switch to the new M5. That is if I can somehow justify that to myself and to my bank account. It is a fairly boring looking car though, the V looks menacing and poised, while the BMW looks very reserved and somewhat bland; with some slight visual mods it could probably be a lot more aggressive. I'm also very curious to hear exactly what the exhaust note sounds like, and not from videos made by BMW. I would be totally batshit in love with my V and wouldn't even look twice at the M5 if I didn't have these problems...

What about just getting some vossen wheels for 2200 bucks? Your coupe would be SICK with those and then your clicking would be gone...


Forget the stock specs, I can't wait to see what an increase in boost will do for the M5. Knowing that the dual clutch has limits on how much it can handle, I wonder what the limit is.

Some of the first m3's had dct issues, but it was from a computer. There are many Super charged m3's running around with 600+ hp on the DCT and it hasn't had any issues that I have heard of yet. (granted not on there much anymore since I bought my V) It did require a new tune, and right now there were only 2 shops that could do that tune, and it couldn't be done by mail order since the DCT's computer is up inside the tranny (similar to ours)

Time will tell, time will tell.

mrl859
06-16-11, 12:40 PM
How can the M have 501 lb-ft at only 1500 rpm????? 5100 rpm maybe? Can you imagine what 501 lb.-ft would do to tires at 1500 rpm out of the hole!

e6t
06-16-11, 01:14 PM
anyone happen to have anything to say about the 28.5 mpg estimate?

CTSV4now
06-16-11, 01:32 PM
I like how they picked glossy studio shots for the Euro crap cars and just a cell phone shot of the Caddy!

jojipoji
06-16-11, 01:51 PM
looks like the m5 will be marginally better in many aspects. imo gm will do nothing to compete with the new m5 in 2012-2013. In 2014 we could see a big change however as the the v2 will be 5 years old by then

Razorecko
06-16-11, 01:59 PM
Well didnt gm state that it was going to start work on future high revving turbo motors ?

Lord Cadillac
06-16-11, 02:01 PM
I'd be very surprised if BMW doesn't one-up the current CTS-V. To me, that would be BMW giving up. I just don't see that happening. And when it comes to tuning, there are just too many people waiting to jump on offering a custom tune. There's either going to be ECU tunes that boost horsepower and torque but 80 or so for under $1k - or the engine is already maxed out and nothing significant will be available.

Domsz06
06-16-11, 02:04 PM
anyone happen to have anything to say about the 28.5 mpg estimate?

thats gotta be a misprint.... unless it does something magical. My friend in LA just sold his m5 and he said he was barely getting 10mpg, granted this is the older model but just saying. The old one's were not known for their mpg.

JFJr
06-16-11, 02:04 PM
Lord knows BMW has been working on the new M5 long enoughI'll second that. It's a compliment to the GM Performance Division in setting the bar so high. Nevertheless, it should be easy for GM to respond in a much shorter time frame. But how does Cadillac shave 200# off the "V," retain the luxury features everyone wants and keep the price differential around $30,000?

Jud

Domsz06
06-16-11, 02:11 PM
I'll second that. It's a compliment to the GM Performance Division in setting the bar so high. Nevertheless, it should be easy for GM to respond in a much shorter time frame. But how does Cadillac shave 200# off the "V," retain the luxury features everyone wants and keep the price differential around $30,000?

Jud

same way they did it in the c6z. use space age materials. Make the floor boards out of carbon fiber, make the roof out of carbon fiber, make the trunk lid out of carbon fiber etc.... I think GM could easily drop 200 lbs just by using some carbon fiber weave. Make the front fenders out of fiberglass.... options options options.

don't offer the sun roof, that glass has got to add some weight.

ultimateendz
06-16-11, 02:31 PM
the way i see it is if you did have 110k to spend (prob what the M5 is gonna cost loaded).....i could go buy a loaded CTS-V 65k....go to an ultracharger setup stage 2 20k......walk out having spent 85k....and still have saved 25k and be walking around with a car that would annihilate even a tuned M5.

Cadillac wins

mberisha
06-16-11, 02:47 PM
BMW is releasing the new M5 to M-Series owners at thier plant outside of Stuttgart this weekend (4-day event).

Looks like the US price is going to be about ~$85k base....and then if you want it right....looking at $94k-$96k.....according to the M-Flight Club here in Germany.

I have a couple buddies going to the debut this weekend...so I should have some firm info on Monday....

Domsz06
06-16-11, 03:27 PM
BMW is releasing the new M5 to M-Series owners at thier plant outside of Stuttgart this weekend (4-day event).

Looks like the US price is going to be about ~$85k base....and then if you want it right....looking at $94k-$96k.....according to the M-Flight Club here in Germany.

I have a couple buddies going to the debut this weekend...so I should have some firm info on Monday....

Be interested to see what they say.

GM could just offer stage 1-3 packages like they do on the cobalt (did I just say that :( ) and let us get a warrantied 650 hp monster :D

GM-4-LIFE
06-16-11, 04:31 PM
All GM needs to do to beat out the new M5 is crank the boost up a tad, maybe change out the heads to a higher flowing set and throw in a slightly more radical cam and call it a day. Modifying the LSA is just too easy for GM! They better do it or they will lose their bragging rights they worked so hard to get. I don't think they have a choice. They have to do it!

e6t
06-16-11, 05:20 PM
thats gotta be a misprint.... unless it does something magical. My friend in LA just sold his m5 and he said he was barely getting 10mpg, granted this is the older model but just saying. The old one's were not known for their mpg.

the v10 SUCKED gas... one of the main reasons that bmw went to the ttv8 was economy... my bmw tt6 with 400 hp would get right at 30mpg on the highway at 85mph.

JimmyH
06-16-11, 06:27 PM
Does BMW even care about the CTS-V? Since the AMG can drive upside down, I imagine BMW's best and brightest are currently working on a response to that.

thebigjimsho
06-16-11, 07:27 PM
But the V will have 50 more lb-ft... and cost $30k lessAnd what exactly does that mean? Where does the Bimmer redline and how flat is that torque curve? If the hp number is similar but can rev higher and is geared right, 50 less lbs of torque means nothing...

thebigjimsho
06-16-11, 07:29 PM
I don't know anout the M5, but the 5 series in a sport package is the most simply handsome sedan on the road today. I love the long, shark nosed profile and the tight, chiseled lines. A great replacement to the Bangle design...

e6t
06-16-11, 07:31 PM
i believe it will redline between 7200-7500 RPM.

JFJr
06-16-11, 07:33 PM
Competition is good for BMW and Cadillac! Don't think for a moment that one is not watching the other.

thebigjimsho
06-16-11, 07:42 PM
i believe it will redline between 7200-7500 RPM.Then it's going to beat a stock V. No doubt...

SleepTight
06-16-11, 08:05 PM
All GM needs to do to beat out the new M5 is crank the boost up a tad, maybe change out the heads to a higher flowing set and throw in a slightly more radical cam and call it a day. Modifying the LSA is just too easy for GM! They better do it or they will lose their bragging rights they worked so hard to get. I don't think they have a choice. They have to do it!

IMHO if GM really hopes to compete with the new M5, they need to offer a 7 speed DCT. If the V has any real weakness, it is the 6L90 automatic transmission. Higher grade interior materials and fit and finish would be nice as well. GM could find another 75 hp in the LSA before lunch.

Bushidopupil
06-16-11, 09:30 PM
I'd be very surprised if BMW doesn't one-up the current CTS-V. To me, that would be BMW giving up. I just don't see that happening. And when it comes to tuning, there are just too many people waiting to jump on offering a custom tune. There's either going to be ECU tunes that boost horsepower and torque but 80 or so for under $1k - or the engine is already maxed out and nothing significant will be available.

If Terry Burger gets a hold of one watch out.....the JB3 I had on my 335i with the Dual Cone Intake made 100HP over stock to the wheels for about $550 out the door. Boost over doubled on that car, can't imagine what he will do with the V8.

Lord Cadillac
06-16-11, 09:46 PM
If Terry Burger gets a hold of one watch out.....the JB3 I had on my 335i with the Dual Cone Intake made 100HP over stock to the wheels for about $550 out the door. Boost over doubled on that car, can't imagine what he will do with the V8.

I had the exact same setup and ran a 12.9 for my first race at a drag strip ever. The car was good for 12.80 easily. I had the 2.0 on map 5. I was about to do an FMIC which I still have brand new - along with methanol injection a catless downpipes. But I traded the car in. I like my freedom too much.

If either Terry Burger or Vishnu get involved, which they will, expect 650 to 700 horsepower for around $1k or so.

kirbyCTSV
06-16-11, 10:25 PM
I had the exact same setup and ran a 12.9 for my first race at a drag strip ever. The car was good for 12.80 easily. I had the 2.0 on map 5. I was about to do an FMIC which I still have brand new - along with methanol injection a catless downpipes. But I traded the car in. I like my freedom too much.

If either Terry Burger or Vishnu get involved, which they will, expect 650 to 700 horsepower for around $1k or so.

i had a similar setup as u except for vishnu/procede. Im not sure how they can benefit our setup. for the most part they were dialing up the boost in the ecu. That is done by changing our the pullies in our cars and tuning (changing AF ratio). But id be interesting in seeing what they could offer

King335i
06-17-11, 03:59 AM
What about just getting some vossen wheels for 2200 bucks? Your coupe would be SICK with those and then your clicking would be gone...

I'm not a huge fan of the Vossen wheels, they are very nice wheels but just not my cup of tea. You are right though, if I knew 100% that aftermarket wheels were a cure then I would leap on it, my fear is that I spend like $4,000 for wheels and tires and take the first turn after putting them on and hear clicking. Pretty disappointing too because I love the look of the black stock wheels...ARGH!@!
My car is going in to my local service center overnight yet again tomorrow, so we'll see if that yields any results.

Though I will heavily consider the F10 M5 when it comes out, I would like to stay in the V if possible.

Bushidopupil
06-17-11, 08:22 AM
I had the exact same setup and ran a 12.9 for my first race at a drag strip ever. The car was good for 12.80 easily. I had the 2.0 on map 5. I was about to do an FMIC which I still have brand new - along with methanol injection a catless downpipes. But I traded the car in. I like my freedom too much.

If either Terry Burger or Vishnu get involved, which they will, expect 650 to 700 horsepower for around $1k or so.

Very cool, yeah I went with the HPF FMIC and it made a world of difference in IAT's. I was running 2.0 also but on Map 7-8 with Sunoco 104. 12.2 was the best I could get with the heavy Xi AWD. Good prelude to the CTS-V for me....but then Jesse got ahold of mine and now....well the rest is history ha ha ha....looking forward to that 2.3 TVS on a 434 LSX. Christmas can't come soon enough....

Lord Cadillac
06-17-11, 11:20 AM
i had a similar setup as u except for vishnu/procede. Im not sure how they can benefit our setup. for the most part they were dialing up the boost in the ecu. That is done by changing our the pullies in our cars and tuning (changing AF ratio). But id be interesting in seeing what they could offer

I was actually referring to what they could do for the twin turbo M5... I've already asked them to get involved with the Cadillac V-Series, especially considering a twin turbo V6 will probably power the upcoming ATS-V. They're not interested. Yet...


Very cool, yeah I went with the HPF FMIC and it made a world of difference in IAT's. I was running 2.0 also but on Map 7-8 with Sunoco 104. 12.2 was the best I could get with the heavy Xi AWD. Good prelude to the CTS-V for me....but then Jesse got ahold of mine and now....well the rest is history ha ha ha....looking forward to that 2.3 TVS on a 434 LSX. Christmas can't come soon enough....

My goal was 11s and I probably would have got there very inexpensively. That N54 engine is amazing...

JimmyH
06-17-11, 05:18 PM
Lord Cadillac rockin a krautwagen :nono:

Lord Cadillac
06-17-11, 05:56 PM
Hey, I wanted a CTS-V but $60k plus wasn't happening. I paid less than half and had a lot of fun with that car while I had it...


Lord Cadillac rockin a krautwagen :nono:

buddyg
06-17-11, 10:59 PM
I don't know anout the M5, but the 5 series in a sport package is the most simply handsome sedan on the road today. I love the long, shark nosed profile and the tight, chiseled lines. A great replacement to the Bangle design...

Boring if you ask me. The Cadillac is way better looking and more distinctive than any other sedan on the road. The only sedan looks wise I like as much is the Aston Martin Rapide.

King335i
06-17-11, 11:20 PM
That N54 engine is amazing...

I totally agree, sometimes I even miss it! lol torque for days and smooth as butter, and the ZF 6-speed was pretty nice in the 335i too, definitely better than the unit in the V Coupe.

King335i
06-17-11, 11:21 PM
I also hope you guys take note that I was the first person on that thread defending the V! I wrote my paragraph rant and then fellow V owners joined in and all of a sudden everyone from e90post stopped posting lol

e6t
06-18-11, 01:03 AM
I miss my 5er.

Lord Cadillac
06-18-11, 02:00 AM
What thread?! And how do you like your CTS-V?


I also hope you guys take note that I was the first person on that thread defending the V! I wrote my paragraph rant and then fellow V owners joined in and all of a sudden everyone from e90post stopped posting lol

SleepTight
06-18-11, 10:34 AM
I also hope you guys take note that I was the first person on that thread defending the V! I wrote my paragraph rant and then fellow V owners joined in and all of a sudden everyone from e90post stopped posting lol

Hah, that's nothin' my friend!

See my thread from last year on 5Post. Test drove the F10 550i--bought a Cadillac CTS-V (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408742) The only 5Post thread in the history of the Bimmerpost forum to receive a lock. :stirpot:

Lord Cadillac
06-18-11, 12:03 PM
We would have never closed that discussion here. That was really stupid. What reason was there to close it?! I guess after you pointed out how somebody sounded half brain dead mentioning how that Cooper guy "slaughtered" the CTS-V or whatever, somebody got bent out of shape. Whoever make that remark should be embarrassed.


Hah, that's nothin' my friend!

See my thread from last year on 5Post. Test drove the F10 550i--bought a Cadillac CTS-V (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408742) The only 5Post thread in the history of the Bimmerpost forum to receive a lock. :stirpot:

mberisha
06-18-11, 01:16 PM
Hah, that's nothin' my friend!

See my thread from last year on 5Post. Test drove the F10 550i--bought a Cadillac CTS-V (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=408742) The only 5Post thread in the history of the Bimmerpost forum to receive a lock. :stirpot:

Hahah....I read that whole thread....those dudes are funny.....

BTW...the BMW'r guys over here in Germany are a lot "cooler" then those clowns.

Bottomline: We all like sharp fast cars.....it's so funney how quickly the conversation transformed into that mess.

haterinc
06-18-11, 01:43 PM
I don't know anout the M5, but the 5 series in a sport package is the most simply handsome sedan on the road today. I love the long, shark nosed profile and the tight, chiseled lines. A great replacement to the Bangle design...

Dislikes this

Lol (where is that button)

EuroTrash
06-18-11, 01:49 PM
Cant wait to get me my vagon...

the m5 no doubt could be turned into a monster, but i would much rather have something a bit more towards the "raw/violent" end of the "fat and posh performance sedan" spectrum.

alq80
06-18-11, 02:55 PM
I don't even see why cadillac have to even care about the new m5... the power difference is minute, and if the M is any better, it won't be by much.

Also coming from an n54, the car was great but with the HPFP, it was unreliable. There were always claims made that the tunes didn't do anything, but most of the people who experienced problems were, in fact, running tunes. The car was great but the tuning companies were ruining the experience. You were attacked because of which tune you had (i had a Jb4 by the end of it) and the tunes felt a bit too "band-aid-ish" almost like the tunes relied on the fact that the engine was way over-engineered. Many people just added bolt ons in a mix and match style, which I did as well, but the car became a headache.

Last thing is that e90post is the biggest propaganda-forum I had ever been on. It is simply a bad bad forum... so much politics involved with a forum was just so bad for the users, with sponsors singling out others and such it was just bad.

thebigjimsho
06-18-11, 03:44 PM
Dislikes this

Lol (where is that button)Hey, I love the looks of my V. I just also love the new 5. The more aggressive looks of the new M5 may actually ruin those clean lines a little...

edsuski
06-18-11, 04:46 PM
Some details revealed here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q2/2012_bmw_m5-official_photos_and_info

It is reported to have four more crank hp than our V. Definite on the twin-turbo 4.4 liter V8. Sounds like it will be a fun ride. Must be a high-revver given the smaller displacement compared to our LSA.

So will GM tune in another little bit of hp for the current V to beat BMW? Judging from our experience on this forum, should be super-easy to do.

Adding a few more Hp will be easy but, the single best thing GM could do is reduce the weight of the car. One way to do this would be to significantly reduce the weight (more importantly the rotational inertia) of the wheels. The stock wheels weigh 24 and 26.4 lb’s each. High tech wheels from Dymag or Carbonrevolution can save between 29.15 and 37.2 Lbs (total). This is important because at the same time you would be reducing rotational inertia and improving:

Acceleration times
Reducing braking distances
Reducing un-sprung weight
Improving lap times

The advantages of reducing rotational inertia are usually considered to be "roughly" equal to removing six times as much weight from the vehicle (non-rotating mass). So the car will perform as if you removed 175 - 273 lb’s from the vehicle – just by changing the wheels to lower inertia wheels. Trust me - it would be pretty tough for GM to remove 273 lb’s from the V (and expensive). Besides - as we all know, the wheels have been somewhat of a problem for the V with the clicking and all anyway. Now - I am not claiming that carbon fiber wheels are cheap - but even if GM had to offer them as part of a “light weight option” for $5K - along with a few other weight saving mod’s like potentially a carbon fiber drive shaft, titanium exhaust system (like the Vette), reduced mass fly wheel etc. – it would improve the performance of the V a lot!

Bottom line – remove the “equivalent” of 300 – 400 lbs from the V – Add 44 Hp for a nice round 600 Hp and send it off to the ring for a new world record time. The reduced rotational inertia alone would improve the lap time…..

thebigjimsho
06-18-11, 04:54 PM
$$$$

e6t
06-18-11, 04:57 PM
I don't even see why cadillac have to even care about the new m5... the power difference is minute, and if the M is any better, it won't be by much.

Also coming from an n54, the car was great but with the HPFP, it was unreliable. There were always claims made that the tunes didn't do anything, but most of the people who experienced problems were, in fact, running tunes. The car was great but the tuning companies were ruining the experience. You were attacked because of which tune you had (i had a Jb4 by the end of it) and the tunes felt a bit too "band-aid-ish" almost like the tunes relied on the fact that the engine was way over-engineered. Many people just added bolt ons in a mix and match style, which I did as well, but the car became a headache.

Last thing is that e90post is the biggest propaganda-forum I had ever been on. It is simply a bad bad forum... so much politics involved with a forum was just so bad for the users, with sponsors singling out others and such it was just bad.

what?

there was a class action suit over the hpfp. the majority of the failures happened on non-modded cars, where did you get that info? a very small percentage of n54 owners modded their cars. aaaaand, who claimed tunes didnt do anything? any of the tunes by reputable companis showed massive increases over stock.

the motor is one of the most outstanding engines ever designed and was very conservatively rated from the factory. my car was faster stock that a stock 550. when it was all said and done, it was pretty fast... it was the fuel pump that was the issue. not the n54.

btw, mine failed before i had a tune. the car had 1600 miles on it and left me, my wife and two boys in limp mode 40 miles from home. i used SOS and called bmw. they told me to drive it home and that i'd be fine... she just said dont pull out in front of anyone and kinda chuckled. i certainly dont have that issue in the V!

tbss08
06-19-11, 08:48 AM
I asked yesterday when I went to test drive a M3 when the new M5 would be out. The sales person wasn't sure, the place was a mad house with the Olympic test drive promotion going on. I will say the M3 is a very nice car. Yeah it is not as fast as the V but interior fit and finish is way ahead of the V. One thing I did notice, NO roof creaking and popping noises. If GM could get their act together and pull their heads out of their, well you know where, they could design and build a great car.

zirotti
06-19-11, 10:26 AM
GM = UAW
BMW = No UAW

SleepTight
06-19-11, 01:48 PM
GM = UAW
BMW = No UAW

Sorry, but I don't see how the roof creaking and popping is the fault of the UAW. The fact that more than a few of us have this problem strongly suggests the design is faulty rather than the fault lying with the assemblers.

alq80
06-19-11, 02:57 PM
what?

there was a class action suit over the hpfp. the majority of the failures happened on non-modded cars, where did you get that info? a very small percentage of n54 owners modded their cars. aaaaand, who claimed tunes didnt do anything? any of the tunes by reputable companis showed massive increases over stock.

the motor is one of the most outstanding engines ever designed and was very conservatively rated from the factory. my car was faster stock that a stock 550. when it was all said and done, it was pretty fast... it was the fuel pump that was the issue. not the n54.

btw, mine failed before i had a tune. the car had 1600 miles on it and left me, my wife and two boys in limp mode 40 miles from home. i used SOS and called bmw. they told me to drive it home and that i'd be fine... she just said dont pull out in front of anyone and kinda chuckled. i certainly dont have that issue in the V!

Dude, the n54 was great. It was fast and awesome, and I do not disagree there. However, the class action lawsuit did what for us? an extended warranty on the HPFP? and if you take the time to look at typical forum responses (http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12355&highlight=hpfp ----- I got this in like less than a minute, but there are tons of examples) there was a lack of blame taken when the HPFP was failing. YES, i know there were pumps failing left and right, but in my entire delaership (knew the SA quite well), I was one of 2 people who came in for an HPFP for at least 3 years.

Again, the tune wasn't the sole reason why the HPFP was failing; there is an inherent design flaw with the pump. BUT, tunes were obviously causing the pumps to fail prematurely too... Stressing that there is no solid evidence to prove or disprove either, but these things were a pain, especially when considering long trips. I simply would worry that every time i set off to a differnt state that I would get an HPFP failure and would have to take the car apart in the middle of the road (like some did) or suffer a car that wouldn't be touched by a dealership.

alq80
06-19-11, 03:15 PM
and e6t, I never said there were no gains. I really loved the gains... you put words in my mouth man. What I meant was that the tunes did, from what I experienced (subjective), increase the rate of HPFP failure. i DID NOT say that the tunes didnt show gains. I gained at least 100HP (from 13.5 to 12.8) and the car was a blast. Terry was an amazing person to deal with, and still is. I still frequent Bimmerboost. And the last thing is that my gains were nothing compared to some who got into the low 12s from the mods i had!

glgjr
06-19-11, 06:35 PM
Sorry, stupid phone posts replies whenever it decides.

Gene

Vapordoc
06-19-11, 07:28 PM
and e6t, I never said there were no gains. I really loved the gains... you put words in my mouth man. What I meant was that the tunes did, from what I experienced (subjective), increase the rate of HPFP failure. i DID NOT say that the tunes didnt show gains. I gained at least 100HP (from 13.5 to 12.8) and the car was a blast. Terry was an amazing person to deal with, and still is. I still frequent Bimmerboost. And the last thing is that my gains were nothing compared to some who got into the low 12s from the mods i had!

Yeah, I had a 2008 N54 335 with a V2 tune and 101 octane as the only mod and ran a 12.38. For the $$, what a great car. The AT in the 335 shifted better than the V, which is a little frustrating..

JFJr
06-19-11, 08:02 PM
Both BMW and Cadillac will benefit from this. You young guys may not realize that this is the age of high performance; enjoy it! A lot of pleasure for car guys!

JimmyH
06-19-11, 09:40 PM
Unfortunately, most young guys can't afford either. At least, this young guy can't.

JFJr
06-19-11, 10:13 PM
Unfortunately, most young guys can't afford either. At least, this young guy can't.I understand. Back in the mid-60's I didn't have a pot to p*++ in and thought that the age of high performance had passed me by because I was so poor. Little did I know that the best was yet to come. Maybe we're going to hydrogen fuel cell cars, I don't know, but certainly Rube Goldberg hybrids aren't the answer. I'm glad that I may not be around to witness the demise of HP V8's. Sorry to ramble on.

thebigjimsho
06-20-11, 01:35 AM
I understand. Back in the mid-60's I didn't have a pot to p*++ in and thought that the age of high performance had passed me by because I was so poor. Little did I know that the best was yet to come. Maybe we're going to hydrogen fuel cell cars, I don't know, but certainly Rube Goldberg hybrids aren't the answer. I'm glad that I may not be around to witness the demise of HP V8's. Sorry to ramble on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PL3pyG6rh0

M5eater
06-20-11, 09:01 AM
I don't even see why cadillac have to even care about the new m5... the power difference is minute, and if the M is any better, it won't be by much.

FYI, the Caddy needed 56HP and 167 ft/lb more torque to edge out the M5 in 0-60 and 0-100,(and then be overtaken until it's limiter kicks in)
The F10 now has Closed the Hp gap and narrowed the torque gap, has an upteen better trans(and better traction control) as well as presumably;
) better brakes
) better suspension
) better unibody
) fatter tires
) be F/I, so even if it's like all other M engines and relatively tuned from the factory close to the limits, a $1K ECU upgrade will add a few dozen more ponies and ft/lbs.
I would not be surprised if it thrashes the V2 everywhere, espically in the are where Caddillac claimed the fastest production sedan in the world title; the nurburgring.

as for my own theories, I'm thinking there's a *very* slim chance for a sports/competition package(2pc rotors, *maybe* retune/exhaust, R-compounds, very easy stuff..), but won't acutally see a major overhaul until the regular CTS does(whenever in 2014 that is), and I'm also betting weight reductions will not play well into the whole idea of Cadillac moving closer to the luxury and build quality of the germans. The cure will have to be fatter tires, better weight distribution, suspension and bigger, fatter engines. Remember, the LSA is still a F/I Gen IV. Gen V's with D/I are around the corner, and there's talk of the plane truck motors getting 400HP.

anyone happen to have anything to say about the 28.5 mpg estimate?

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544860
Average fuel consumption: 9.9 litres/100 kilometres (28.5 mpg imperial / 23.5 US MPG)
sounds spot on to me... Imperial gallons are larger than US gallons. It's not a misprint.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/30073.shtml
550i gets 25mpg with the same TTV8, detuned to 400HP.

Razorecko
06-20-11, 10:45 AM
I'm very curious to see what the new M5 will be all about. I do forsee ALOT of mechanical issues with the first year M5. Just like when the 335i came out and all the issues they had with overheating and running that single turbo. Its been a loooong time since BMW played with FI so they're not that good at it. When MB comes out with FI ( TT) for their c-class & e -class than we really have to watch out. They've had years upon years expeirance running boosted motors in the E & S classes to know what it takes to work. Hell, look at their iconic TTV12 motors.

Lord Cadillac
06-20-11, 12:22 PM
Early 335i's had a single turbo?

A few months into 2007 the 335i's got a oil cooler which helped a lot with the overheating issues.

I never had any overheating issues with my non-oil cooler'd 2007. I also never had any high pressure fuel pump issues.


I'm very curious to see what the new M5 will be all about. I do forsee ALOT of mechanical issues with the first year M5. Just like when the 335i came out and all the issues they had with overheating and running that single turbo. Its been a loooong time since BMW played with FI so they're not that good at it. When MB comes out with FI ( TT) for their c-class & e -class than we really have to watch out. They've had years upon years expeirance running boosted motors in the E & S classes to know what it takes to work. Hell, look at their iconic TTV12 motors.

M5eater
06-20-11, 12:38 PM
Early 335i's had a single turbo?


early N54's were single turbo, yes.

Lord Cadillac
06-20-11, 12:40 PM
I had no idea...


early N54's were single turbo, yes.

M5eater
06-20-11, 12:43 PM
I had no idea...
acutally, you're correct. We are thinking of the Twin Scroll single turbo N55.. The wiki page for the N54 does not say it was a single turbo at any point.

e6t
06-20-11, 12:46 PM
early N54's were single turbo, yes.

you sure about that clark?

i thought the n54 was always twin...

if thats true, you learn something every day!

on edit, just saw the above post...

shchow
06-20-11, 01:45 PM
The early 335's had TWIN TURBOs. The problem was that the ones without the sports package did not come with an oil cooler, and some people who ran them on a track overheated.
The engine was then replaced with SINGLE TURBO with dual scroll.
I believe the 335is still comes with the twin turbo engine...

Razorecko
06-20-11, 04:03 PM
Thats correct. It was my mistake. The initial 335i's were dual turbo and went to single turbo because of all the heat issues, I think some fuel issues also but i'm not sure as I never owned that platform

e6t
06-20-11, 09:37 PM
i was in a 2006 M5 today that had almost 90,000 miles on it. it was dead silent. not a crack or creak anywhere. i thought it was a hold out 2010 with 9000 miles on it, it was so nice.

the first thing cadillac needs to do is to figure out how to tighten up the fit and finish and overall build quality if it ever wants to truly compete...

King335i
06-20-11, 09:44 PM
When the HPFP failed on my 2007 335i it was the most painless fix ever. I took the car in, they acknowledged the problem and BMWNA replaced the part free of charge. Having said that, it must've failed at least 3 times, and that was before I had the Dinan Stage II tune on there. I think it only failed one more time after the Dinan tune. But they've got those problems pretty much nailed down now, and I haven't heard of any major problems with the "Twin-Power" engine they are now replacing the N54 with. Who knows, all I can say is that after having driven a BMW and then switched to something else, I miss the 'no-excuses' high quality interior and build quality of the BMW.

Lord Cadillac
06-20-11, 09:51 PM
I hear about the fit and finish all the time.. The thing is - for a high performance luxury sedan like the CTS-V to be as good a deal as it is - something has to give. At this point, you can sell a Cadillac CTS-V and a BMW M5 with the same fit, finish and performance - but most people will take the BMW. The CTS-V just isn't well known enough. Cadillac is selling the car at a bargain price until everyone knows and understands it's a relevant option. Once that happens, the fit and finish will be on par - and both cars will cost about the same.


i was in a 2006 M5 today that had almost 90,000 miles on it. it was dead silent. not a crack or creak anywhere. i thought it was a hold out 2010 with 9000 miles on it, it was so nice.

the first thing cadillac needs to do is to figure out how to tighten up the fit and finish and overall build quality if it ever wants to truly compete...

Lord Cadillac
06-20-11, 09:53 PM
There's a recall on ALL 335i's with the N54 engine and I believe they've fixed the problem. Plus, they're all warranted to 110,000 miles.. But unless I'm mistaken, the recall has fixed the issue with the HPFP.


When the HPFP failed on my 2007 335i it was the most painless fix ever. I took the car in, they acknowledged the problem and BMWNA replaced the part free of charge. Having said that, it must've failed at least 3 times, and that was before I had the Dinan Stage II tune on there. I think it only failed one more time after the Dinan tune. But they've got those problems pretty much nailed down now, and I haven't heard of any major problems with the "Twin-Power" engine they are now replacing the N54 with. Who knows, all I can say is that after having driven a BMW and then switched to something else, I miss the 'no-excuses' high quality interior and build quality of the BMW.

M5eater
06-20-11, 10:31 PM
I hear about the fit and finish all the time.. The thing is - for a high performance luxury sedan like the CTS-V to be as good a deal as it is - something has to give. At this point, you can sell a Cadillac CTS-V and a BMW M5 with the same fit, finish and performance - but most people will take the BMW. The CTS-V just isn't well known enough. Cadillac is selling the car at a bargain price until everyone knows and understands it's a relevant option. Once that happens, the fit and finish will be on par - and both cars will cost about the same.
in agreement 100%. Frankly, it's unrealistic to expect perfection from a car that's 33% off the comparison.

$~70K, which is what a fully loaded V2 costs, won't even buy you a M sport package 550i with the other optional sport driver aids, now granted, you can also get more toys on the 550, but get back with me when you're finished counting how many of those are optional extras.

e6t
06-20-11, 11:33 PM
thats just it... if the cts-v was 100k with bmw fit and finish, no one would ever buy one. i say no one, but that's probably an exageration. how about this, few people would buy them. if the dollars were the same, most would go with a benz or bmw or the like. i bought the V as a bridge from my e60 to an f10 m5. i liked that it was less expensive, i just didnt know it was cheap.

thebigjimsho
06-20-11, 11:59 PM
The fit and finish on my '09 is excellent.

zirotti
06-21-11, 12:03 AM
I have no complaints with fit and finish, but then again I didn't buy the car for the backup camera or sunroof. I bought it for what's under the hood.

King335i
06-21-11, 01:15 AM
Nobody's saying that they bought the car for the backup camera or the sunroof, but if GM is going to bother including those parts (which they have to if they want to be considered a luxury marque), then they should at least go the distance and make sure that they function and are well-built.

On a side note, I don't know if this was already cleared up, but the 335i began with the twin-turbo N54 Inline 6, then recently moved to the single dual-scroll turbo N55 which they somewhat misleadingly dubbed "Twin-Power". The N55 has currently replaced the N54 in the 335i, but the N54 lives on in the sportier 335is, and the Z4 S Drive35is (which in my opinion is a testament to the potential of the N54).

I really liked the N54.

http://youtu.be/8i39IEneYmE?hd=1

Domsz06
06-21-11, 08:15 AM
all I know is if you think these cars are "cheap" for a 70k car, don't get into a c6z. I think my caddy is hands over fist better made then my 70k z06, granted I love them both, but just throwing that out there. You get the engine or the interior for 70k, but not both. If you want both it's gonna cost and as others have said then not as many would buy it IMO FWIW.

thebigjimsho
06-21-11, 10:24 AM
My car's functions function and are well built...

e6t
06-21-11, 10:47 AM
i have no issue with the materials used in the car. none at all... it isnt going to have a real leather dash or suede roof at this price, BUT the parts they use could fit together (hence FIT AND FINISH) without popping and creaking and squeaking. cheap ass plastic rubbing cheap ass plastic is destined for failure. run a $5 line of felt tape around the parts in the interior and it would be infinitely better. also, the roof is just a joke. there is too much shit crammed into the space above the headliner. if you cant make it tight and solid, dont offer it. did anyone REALLY get a hardon for the stupid roof in the car anyway? its a terrible example of a "panoramic" roof... the glass that opens is tiny, they craptastic "shade" flaps in the wind like the headliner from a 1981 el dorado... they shouldnt try to offer options like the big boys have for 70% of the price.

i didnt create the idea that cadillac is marketing the V against the M%s etc... cadillac did. the motor is unreal and the drive is too... but thats where the comparison should stop. it is as fast and handles as well, generally, as an m5. it is a bargain at 70% of the price, certainly.

thebigjimsho
06-21-11, 10:52 AM
My roof is fine. I think it's a misnomer that EVERYONE on teh face of the earth with a V has moonroof issues. I always want it. I'm glad I have it and mine is quieter than a church mouse...

Lord Cadillac
06-21-11, 10:56 AM
Expect the fit and finish to improve and the price to go up... As mentioned, however, you can't go head to head (on price) with two products as well established as an M and AMG from the get go. You have to discount and in order to do that, either quality or performance has to suffer. With each generation of the CTS-V will come better fit and finish and a higher price tag to customers.

ChicagoV
06-21-11, 11:42 AM
i have no issue with the materials used in the car. none at all... it isnt going to have a real leather dash or suede roof at this price, BUT the parts they use could fit together (hence FIT AND FINISH) without popping and creaking and squeaking. cheap ass plastic rubbing cheap ass plastic is destined for failure. run a $5 line of felt tape around the parts in the interior and it would be infinitely better. also, the roof is just a joke. there is too much shit crammed into the space above the headliner. if you cant make it tight and solid, dont offer it. did anyone REALLY get a hardon for the stupid roof in the car anyway? its a terrible example of a "panoramic" roof... the glass that opens is tiny, they craptastic "shade" flaps in the wind like the headliner from a 1981 el dorado... they shouldnt try to offer options like the big boys have for 70% of the price.

i didnt create the idea that cadillac is marketing the V against the M%s etc... cadillac did. the motor is unreal and the drive is too... but thats where the comparison should stop. it is as fast and handles as well, generally, as an m5. it is a bargain at 70% of the price, certainly.

What he said. The motor, brakes and handling, along with a respectable amount of electronics and decent styling are what I want, and the V2 has all of that. In serious abundance when it comes to the motor, especially. I have a feeling that a lot of people like the semi-stealth passage of the V as well, with really only those who know cars even understanding what just blasted past them. Just did a road trip in a friend's A6 and it felt- believe it or not- less solid and substantial that the V in general. Better AT, few more ponies (maybe offer warranty-covered factory upgrades?), upgrade of electronics, fix the "ultraview" and try to shave a couple hundred pounds and sign me up for a V3, don't care what M or AMG are doing. Oh, and fix the dealer network- seriously, this is not 1978.

shchow
06-21-11, 11:53 AM
My roof is fine. I think it's a misnomer that EVERYONE on teh face of the earth with a V has moonroof issues. I always want it. I'm glad I have it and mine is quieter than a church mouse...
+1,
As with ANY car forum, it's the vocal minority that make it seem like every single make from the specific model is falling apart and held together by bubblegum.
When I had my M5, you would have thought that everybody got the RCOD (red cog of death).
Bottom line...if you're someone who obsesses about every single creak or groan, don't buy a car.
It's a car. Prone to idiosyncrasies and "patina".
My 6 series had it's SMG tranny replaced TWICE!
EVERY make will have it's share of faults and glitches. Maybe some more than others.
As long as I get something to drive while it's getting fixed, I really don't care.

concorso
06-21-11, 11:59 AM
I have no complaints with fit and finish, but then again I didn't buy the car for the backup camera or sunroof. I bought it for what's under the hood.IF what was under the hood was all the mattered,even in a performance car, we'd be living in some bizarro world.

I hate to criticize the new V. Ive done it before in the lounge and was lambasted for being a mouthpiece for euro-snobs. Ive driven 2 now, and each have had major rattles and creaks, almost as bad as my CTS. MY older E39 540i (while expensive to maintain, ) has almost twice as many miles and has absolutely no creaks or rattles in the interior. The build quality just doesnt seem to be there yet. ITs btter then the 1st gen, but after being in a heap of new CTS, and 2 V's, Im a little disappointed. For alot of people, creaks and rattles will hurt the driving experience.

concorso
06-21-11, 12:05 PM
Im personally ok with and understand that for the interior materials to improve and retain the performance, the cost must go up. I understand that. I find it really hard to believe that GM cant improve the way parts fit together while keeping the materials used affordable! There use to be a rumor that Toyota would glue certain interior bodypanels together to keep them from moving against each other! That cant be an expensive fix. IT might also be an ugly bandaid... It would also keep alot of owners happy.

buddyg
06-21-11, 12:15 PM
Just read in Road and Track that the new M5 will have 555 hp. Seems to me they should have at least given it 557 to beat the Caddy. I would not pay the extra cheese for the Bimmer myself.

e6t
06-21-11, 01:27 PM
it will be little more than a tune away from 700 hp.

thebigjimsho
06-21-11, 02:49 PM
Just read in Road and Track that the new M5 will have 555 hp. Seems to me they should have at least given it 557 to beat the Caddy. I would not pay the extra cheese for the Bimmer myself.BMW doesn't care about advertised numbers. If they did, they wouldn't have cars dynoing awfully close to the wheels what they advertise at the crank.

Again, if those numbers are true, with a redline so high, it WILL be faster than a stock V. Heck, the current model with 500hp and much less torque isn't far off. Flat torque curves and high rpms make up for any small numbers deficiency...

thebigjimsho
06-21-11, 02:52 PM
IF what was under the hood was all the mattered,even in a performance car, we'd be living in some bizarro world.

I hate to criticize the new V. Ive done it before in the lounge and was lambasted for being a mouthpiece for euro-snobs. Ive driven 2 now, and each have had major rattles and creaks, almost as bad as my CTS. MY older E39 540i (while expensive to maintain, ) has almost twice as many miles and has absolutely no creaks or rattles in the interior. The build quality just doesnt seem to be there yet. ITs btter then the 1st gen, but after being in a heap of new CTS, and 2 V's, Im a little disappointed. For alot of people, creaks and rattles will hurt the driving experience.I don't understand why some cars will creak and rattle and others from the same assembly line won't. But I'm not making stuff up. Anyone can ride along with me in my '09. No creaks, no rattles, nothing. The same with my '04. Guess I'm just lucky...

Lord Cadillac
06-21-11, 02:53 PM
I do feel this new M5 will be faster than the current CTS-V. But I also have a feeling the engine is about as good as it's going to get. In other words, while there's room for improvement with tuning - I bet it's not going to be like it was with the 3.0 liter N54...

buddyg
06-21-11, 03:44 PM
it will be little more than a tune away from 700 hp.

Doesn't take much for the V to get there either and for the money you saved not buying the Bimmer you can do the mods and still have money left over.

e6t
06-21-11, 04:03 PM
I bet it's not going to be like it was with the 3.0 liter N54...

some of the gains ive seen and heard on the x5 m and x6 m might disagree.

Lord Cadillac
06-21-11, 04:15 PM
I'm interested in links if you have 'em. Let's just wait and see how long the engines last.. The N54 has proven to be solid over the course of a few years...


some of the gains ive seen and heard on the x5 m and x6 m might disagree.

Domsz06
06-21-11, 04:22 PM
I don't understand why some cars will creak and rattle and others from the same assembly line won't. But I'm not making stuff up. Anyone can ride along with me in my '09. No creaks, no rattles, nothing. The same with my '04. Guess I'm just lucky...

U n me both.

e6t
06-21-11, 04:49 PM
I'm interested in links if you have 'em. Let's just wait and see how long the engines last.. The N54 has proven to be solid over the course of a few years...

look up any of the tuners that work on those cars... ive seen anywhere from 40-80 whp gains with just a tune and as much as 150 with just a tune, intake and exhaust.

there is no doubt that the ceiling of an LSA is probably higher, but i dont believe the MCars were intended to be dragsters. for a few thousand bucks, which at this level is nothing, an M5 will be able to run with anything at all on the street or track... when the awd m5 is released, goodnight john boy.

JFJr
06-21-11, 06:59 PM
Competition is good for the "V" and any "M." I can see both super sedans being very competitive for the foreseeable future. It comes down to preferences and affordability. Great to have these choices! No manufacturer owns this category.

King335i
06-22-11, 08:07 PM
The redline on the new M5 is 7,000 RPMs, and the official specs put the car at 560hp. Both of those facts came from BMW itself.

Lord Cadillac
06-23-11, 12:19 PM
To make things even more interesting, Hyundai is coming into this game in a few years with a well-tested 637HP V8 DGI TT 5.5L Tau engine. The current Genesis is likely going to see 4.8 seconds to 60 miles per hour and low to low/mid 13s with the current Genesis - and that's with about 430 horsepower. We probably won't see what whole 637 horsepower in the high performance models but we know it'll be tunable to that kind of power. Perhaps a little more...

On another note, Hyundai had a 500 horsepower version of the 4.6 liter V8 - Naturally Aspirated - before they began working on the TT 5.0..

JimmyH
06-23-11, 01:56 PM
Anyone can make a 637 hp V8. The question is whether they can make it driveable and reliable. And whether the powertrain can handle it. I would suspect Hyundai has not gotten there yet with any of these criteria.

Lord Cadillac
06-23-11, 02:07 PM
They're testing everything you're speaking of now. It's going to be the Hyundai AMGMSV-Series "R" with V-Tec. :p


Anyone can make a 637 hp V8. The question is whether they can make it driveable and reliable. And whether the powertrain can handle it. I would suspect Hyundai has not gotten there yet with any of these criteria.

JimmyH
06-23-11, 02:13 PM
M, AMG, V, F, type-R, type-S; I wonder what Hyundai will go with...

buddyg
06-23-11, 04:54 PM
M, AMG, V, F, type-R, type-S; I wonder what Hyundai will go with...

iluvulongtime

JimmyH
06-23-11, 05:01 PM
Maybe Genesis Type-X

concorso
06-24-11, 11:18 PM
I don't understand why some cars will creak and rattle and others from the same assembly line won't. But I'm not making stuff up. Anyone can ride along with me in my '09. No creaks, no rattles, nothing. The same with my '04. Guess I'm just lucky...I dont understand it at all, either. Which is why I hope at least all cheap preventative fixs have been explored. And chances are, it allready has...
I dont doubt you at all. Most opinions are formed from anecdotal experience. It doesnt make either more right or wrong. In fact, yours is more valid as Ive only test driven, but you own one. I just hope your experience is in the same ballpark as the majority...

With that said, I like the style of the V interior much more then the M5 or E63. The layout, the way the dash curves around you instead of away from you like the german rivals, more then makes up for creaks and rattles you may have. It could use a little less brightwork, but I do think the V interior as a whole is miles more attractive then the other 2.

I agree that the new 5 series is gorgeous. Its a better evolution of the E39 then the E60 is, imo. I like how subtle it is compared to the E60. All the lines flow together nicely on the new 5 series, something you couldnt say about the Bungled E60. Mercedes ruined the new E-class, tho. I dont like the harsher lines theyve given it.

bash535i
06-25-11, 02:30 AM
Yeah, I hate to say it but due to some quality-control issues I'm having with my car I will probably be making the switch to the new M5. That is if I can somehow justify that to myself and to my bank account. It is a fairly boring looking car though, the V looks menacing and poised, while the BMW looks very reserved and somewhat bland; with some slight visual mods it could probably be a lot more aggressive. I'm also very curious to hear exactly what the exhaust note sounds like, and not from videos made by BMW. I would be totally $%^&*@ in love with my V and wouldn't even look twice at the M5 if I didn't have these problems...

Amen Brother... The V is awesome in the looks and performance department, but when I get back in my 5 Series, there's no comparison to the fit, finish and quality. BMW leather has to be twice as thick and the seats are as comfy as anything you find. Far less rattles too. But again, the V is a spectacular car when you just want an awesome car for show and go.

JFJr
06-25-11, 10:04 AM
My car doesn't creak and rattle. The only time I get any interior sounds is an occasional pop from the sunroof until the interior cools down after the car has sat parked the hot Florida sun for a few hours. I'd like to know how any "M" would fare under the same circumstances.

alq80
06-25-11, 04:04 PM
m5 7:55 around the 'ring.

Lord Cadillac
06-27-11, 12:33 PM
Yes, they're leading the CTS-V - for now...


m5 7:55 around the 'ring.

M5eater
06-27-11, 12:35 PM
m5 7:55 around the 'ring.

according to whom?

SleepTight
06-27-11, 03:25 PM
Amen Brother... The V is awesome in the looks and performance department, but when I get back in my 5 Series, there's no comparison to the fit, finish and quality. BMW leather has to be twice as thick and the seats are as comfy as anything you find. Far less rattles too. But again, the V is a spectacular car when you just want an awesome car for show and go.

Same here. My V is rattling again after its second time in the shop and the lack of quality in the interior fit and finish is beginning to wear on me. I love the car otherwise (and I love driving the only V in my town of M5s and M3s) but I'm not going to put up with the interior of the car sounding worse then a $15,000 Hyundai.

I'm going to be thinking hard about trading in for the F10 M5 or maybe even an AMG CLS.