: REVEALED - New BMW M5 sedan (F10), CTS-V competitor. 550+hp turbo



JasonAZ
06-14-11, 10:59 PM
2012 M5 sedan pics/specs leaked:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544860


Power: 552hp / 501ft-lb tq turbo V8
7 speed DCT and Manual Transmissions

Beautiful blue color on the photographs.

Any guesses on how this will stack up to CTS-V....

vincentm
06-14-11, 11:36 PM
Even if it does, id still own the CTS-V rather than a BMW, caddy all the way

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Night Wolf
06-14-11, 11:37 PM
Lame. True sport sedans are FWD.

Playdrv4me
06-15-11, 04:52 AM
Looks like they kind of tamed that beast. From engine, to exterior aggressiveness, to the meager 40-something hp boost over the E60 M5. It's fascinating because I see more V2 here than I do traditional M5 with everything save for the DCT trans. Boy, it's gonna be interesting to see what they do with the price because where it stands now, the V2 while not as refined, is gonna be so much more car than the traditional M5 price-point. For once I think Cadillac actually made a global impact on this segment... very VERY interesting.

ben.gators
06-15-11, 05:09 AM
Do you guys have seen this race between CTS-V (second gen) and the BMW M5 (not this revealed gen)? CTS-V beats the hell out of M5! :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVCPRd11pI

gary88
06-15-11, 01:33 PM
Looks like they kind of tamed that beast. From engine, to exterior aggressiveness, to the meager 40-something hp boost over the E60 M5. It's fascinating because I see more V2 here than I do traditional M5 with everything save for the DCT trans. Boy, it's gonna be interesting to see what they do with the price because where it stands now, the V2 while not as refined, is gonna be so much more car than the traditional M5 price-point. For once I think Cadillac actually made a global impact on this segment... very VERY interesting.

The UK pricing is 73,040 (~$118,000), but for the US I would expect it to be around $100-$105k.

Knowing BMW I bet the stated hp/tq numbers are on the conservative side. Should be interesting once someone gets one on a dyno, and especially once the tuners start digging into the ECU :D

Also there should be an AWD version coming.

smackdownsrt
06-15-11, 01:47 PM
Not really, it's such a different price point. I'd definitely own one, but they are too damn expensive. MSRP is going to be $85k+. If it was starting at $60k or even $65k, then it would be a true contender.

Stingroo
06-15-11, 01:59 PM
$100k vs $70k.

Mmhmm. Those are different brackets.

OffThaHorseCEO
06-15-11, 02:20 PM
i forgot where i saw it posted that the reason the listed price is so high is because european taxes are so high especially on high end vehicles like that. supposedly the cost here would be much lower than there even when you factor in the exchange rate

side note: that guy in the video looks super ghaey

Rodya234
06-15-11, 04:44 PM
I think it might have a shot at besting the V's 'ring time. Still not as fast in a straight line though.

JimmyH
06-15-11, 05:13 PM
For $100k, I am betting the V3 will obliterate this car. But BMW has a hold on its loyalists that seems to be unbreakable.

But, the new 5 is a very beautiful car. I like the understated styling of this M. And that color is incredible. Like orange is for Roo, that deep blue is for me.

OffThaHorseCEO
06-15-11, 06:38 PM
see its an endless cycle though...

the comments on that video are all like "So what thats the old M5 its already 5 years old i bet the new M5 will kill it!"
ok so when the new M5 comes out and kills the V2 you could easily say "Oh thats the old V its alrwady x years old i bet the V3 will kill it!"

and so on and so on and then everyone argues and ends up hating each other instead of being happy that the multimillion dollar corporations are so busy trying to one up each other that we end up with awesome cars

The Raven
06-15-11, 07:03 PM
see its an endless cycle though...

the comments on that video are all like "So what thats the old M5 its already 5 years old i bet the new M5 will kill it!"
ok so when the new M5 comes out and kills the V2 you could easily say "Oh thats the old V its alrwady x years old i bet the V3 will kill it!"

and so on and so on and then everyone argues and ends up hating each other instead of being happy that the multimillion dollar corporations are so busy trying to one up each other that we end up with awesome cars

Yup...that's how it goes. If our current car can't keep up, the next generation will!

Anyway, i'm not entirely convinced this car is going to best the current V, let alone the next generation. It's down quite a bit of torque, and being turbo gives it a slight disadvantage to begin with (though if the torque was there the disadvantage would be negligible). If I had to call it now, i'd put my money on a solid win for the CTS-V in the 1320, and a tie on the ring. I'll be the first to say it's very early to call, this is just going by specs, and what we know the V can do.

Also, I haven't known M's to be underrated. From my experience they are spot-on, or slightly overrated. I'm no authority on the subject though.

OffThaHorseCEO
06-15-11, 07:10 PM
I remember one of the online car mags saying that the new M5 had actually increased in power and torque despite going from a 10 cylinder to 8. i believe it was a small amount of hp but like 30-50 lb-ft increase...

i may be thinkin about another car entirely

gary88
06-15-11, 10:04 PM
Yup...that's how it goes. If our current car can't keep up, the next generation will!

Anyway, i'm not entirely convinced this car is going to best the current V, let alone the next generation. It's down quite a bit of torque, and being turbo gives it a slight disadvantage to begin with (though if the torque was there the disadvantage would be negligible). If I had to call it now, i'd put my money on a solid win for the CTS-V in the 1320, and a tie on the ring. I'll be the first to say it's very early to call, this is just going by specs, and what we know the V can do.

Also, I haven't known M's to be underrated. From my experience they are spot-on, or slightly overrated. I'm no authority on the subject though.

How is turbo a disadvantage? Both cars are FI. The V does have more torque, but the M5's torque peaks earlier (1500rpm vs 3800rpm). Definitely can't wait until the comparison tests start coming out, should be interesting.

The N/A M cars have always ran pretty consistent with their stated hp/tq numbers, but with their new turbo motors BMW has been known to underrate them a bit.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0609_2007_bmw_335i_dynamometer/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRKrpWjGDEw&feature=player_embedded

JimmyH
06-15-11, 10:10 PM
I can tell you this; years down the road, when the warranty is gone, and something breaks, I would rather be owning a blown pushrod than a turbo quad-cammer. I was watching motorweek a couple weeks ago when they were reviewing the hybrid toureg; they were going on about how efficient and highly advanced it is and I thought, "god help the poor soul who has to fix that thing out of warranty..." With new car prices going up, and used car values getting worse, I keep wondering at what point it's going to cost more to fix an out-of-warranty car than replace it.

Night Wolf
06-15-11, 10:29 PM
I can tell you this; years down the road, when the warranty is gone, and something breaks, I would rather be owning a blown pushrod than a turbo quad-cammer. I was watching motorweek a couple weeks ago when they were reviewing the hybrid toureg; they were going on about how efficient and highly advanced it is and I thought, "god help the poor soul who has to fix that thing out of warranty..." With new car prices going up, and used car values getting worse, I keep wondering at what point it's going to cost more to fix an out-of-warranty car than replace it.

Yeah but car manufacturers don't care about the used car owners - they are trying to sell cars. If that's what needs to be done to keep the car competitive then that's what it takes. Joe blow wrenching on his hunk o junk 15yrs from now isn't even a consideration to the new car folks trying to 1-up each other. Atleast that's what I learned hanging around the lounge.

JimmyH
06-15-11, 10:31 PM
You are right. But that doesn't help the poor folks who can't afford new cars. My point is what is going to happen 10 years from now when trade-ins are worth little more than scrap value, because no one wants a used car anymore? I am thinking worst case, but it could happen.

ben.gators
06-15-11, 10:41 PM
I can tell you this; years down the road, when the warranty is gone, and something breaks, I would rather be owning a blown pushrod than a turbo quad-cammer. I was watching motorweek a couple weeks ago when they were reviewing the hybrid toureg; they were going on about how efficient and highly advanced it is and I thought, "god help the poor soul who has to fix that thing out of warranty..." With new car prices going up, and used car values getting worse, I keep wondering at what point it's going to cost more to fix an out-of-warranty car than replace it.

What you say has already happened! Example? the Cadillacs Sevilles that you and me own!

Night Wolf
06-15-11, 10:54 PM
Our society keeps going more and more to be "throw away". Even when I was growing up, a car was kept for 10yrs... now, by the time you've had one for 3yrs it seems like it's "old" at the same time, while sometimes seemingly "cheaper", cars seem to be built better in the sense that 100k miles is nothing now.

I find all the latest techno stuff integrated into cars to be funny - what happens 10yrs from now? Has anyone seen a 10+ yr old car with factory nav? It is more trouble than it's worth. Now with so many cars having fully integrated audio systems with bluetooh etc... I can just imagine how much fun all that would be to try and work with in the future.

Playdrv4me
06-16-11, 03:37 AM
Sure, BMW throws out typically conservative numbers... but if we are REALLY talking 100-ish k versus 62k out the door for a V Sedan it doesn't matter. There's no where near enough performance difference to justify the price difference. If both cars were priced near eachother, I'd choose the BMW... but if prices are that stratospheric there's no question the V is the hands down overall winner. As Jimmy stated, it's also the car I'd rather hang on to 10 years down the road.

I shudder to think what would happen if you threw 10 or 20 grand in modifications at the V and were still 15k behind the price we assume the BMW will be at.

Stingroo
06-16-11, 08:35 AM
Anybody else find it comical that the thread title lists the M5 as a competitor to the CTS-V, and not the other way around?

Playdrv4me
06-16-11, 09:09 AM
Hah, just noticed that.

JimmyH
06-16-11, 02:03 PM
The V2 has SERIOUS street cred. The V1 didn't. I have seen plenty of stories in the V2 forum from guys who have owned both. And they all tell the same story, almost no one they encountered knew what the V1 was. Almost everyone knows what the V2 is. I am sure a big part of that is marketing, but the automotive community has really taken notice of the V2. It is truly a supercar. You can find the discussions on most other forums, about how their particular car will fare against the CTS-V. That's a huge success for GM Perf. And like you guys said, the fact that they did it for so much less than the M is significant.

Just think these cars are getting too complex, and I cringe to think what the maintenance costs are going to be on them. I am excited about the ATS-V myself. It won't hold a candle to the M5 or the CTS-V, but if they keep the NA pushrod engine and tremec, along with a simple drivetrain, it's a car that will be alot easier to own once the warranty is gone.

JimmyH
06-16-11, 02:09 PM
I shudder to think what would happen if you threw 10 or 20 grand in modifications at the V and were still 15k behind the price we assume the BMW will be at.

From what I am seeing, $10k in mods on the V2 can get you 600 hp to the wheels. And driveable on the street no less.