: 93 STS Northstar, Would like some help.



rswaim
10-15-04, 02:04 PM
I recently replaced my TPS and ISC motor. I found the idle learn procedure on this forum. After running this procedure, I cleared the PCM codes, which by the way were P080 and P083, and restarted. My idle speed is better but, I still get the same codes. I am curious to know if the procedure is different for the 4.9 engine, from the N* 4.6, which I do have. If so, can someone please assist me. If not, can anyone tell me what else I can do besides take it to the Cady house? I have had Cadillac's before and have not had this amount of trouble working on them before. Also, on my test drive, I do not think I have near the power I did have before doing the job.

My original problem, is the SES light is on and I cannot get an inspection sticker with this light on. After spending $500.00 at the Cadillac dealer, I still do not have my sticker. Can anyone help me. Thank you in advance, as I am open to all suggestions.

BeelzeBob
10-15-04, 02:25 PM
The P083...24x reference signal high....has nothing to do with the idle speed control or TPS directly...but...it will cause problems with the idle speed control as it is calculated by the PCM.

You need to diagnose the reason for the 24x reference signal from the ignition module in the coil pack to the PCM being failed......possibly the ignition module or a disconnected/shorted wire somewhere. Even a high voltage spark plug wire too near the leads from the ignition module to the PCM could possibly induce noise and cause the code to set. Check the 12 volt wiring and routing into and near the coil pack for starters.

Did you disconnect the battery negative terminal for 60 seconds after changing the ISC and the TPS?

Was the throttle body cleaned?? That is the most common problem causing the idle learns to get off the chart....a dirty throttle body. Hold the throttle blade wide open, spray the throttle body bore and the back of the blade with carb cleaner and scrub with an old toothbrush to clean the deposits off. When clean, disconnect the battery for 60 seconds to reset the idle learn offsets. Forget the idle learn procedure. Clear the codes and drive the car. The default idle learn offsets are for a clean throttle body so the idle learn is not necessary and the idle speed control should be fine without doing it.

rswaim
10-15-04, 02:47 PM
Thank you bbob. I am going to store to get some cleaner after this reply. I just replaced the plug wires, will check routing. I had no idea what the 24x reference code meant. I asked the guys at the dealer and they basically would not tell me. I know they have a business to run and are not exactly wanting to give away something they could charge me to do. I am trying to fix this car up for my wife of 25 years. She deserves to have this car and I am willing to do everything I can to get it right for her.
Thank you again for your reply.

peteski
10-18-04, 03:31 AM
I had a problem with 24X and 4X signals in my 93 Eldo few months back. It used to make my car stall, then start up again using some sort of fail-safe mode. I'm glad that N* engineers thought of making this system sort-of redundant!

I troubleshoot the problem by the Service Manual (checked the cam and crank sensors and other wiring) and it all pointed to the Ignition Module. BTW, the Service Manual does describe both signals and explains how they are used and what generates them. Funny that a dealer's mechanic (or as they are now called a "Service Tech.") didn't know what that was...

And, to make things more difficult, the problem was intermittant.

But at the end, anytime I cooled the Ign. Mod. (using "Freeze Spray"), it would start working again. It was heat-sensitive.

I replaced it (cost about $400 :rant2: ) and the problem is gone.

I still have the bad module (in case Bbob wants to disect it) ! :D

Peteski

rswaim
10-19-04, 09:50 AM
Thank you for your input. I was able, with the help of the dealer shop foreman, to get a reading on my crank sensors. I determined one was bad. So, I replaced both of them as suggested by the foreman. Then, disconnected the ground from the battery, turned ign. on and reset the codes in the PCM. Then, started the engine and life became good again. I drove the car to the station and got my inspection sticker. As the tech was finishing the procedure of putting on the sticker, the SES light once again popped on. Because the light didn't come on untill after the testing was complete, he allowed the test to stand and I could keep the sticker. I paid for the test and went out to the car to get my somewhat happy ass home.

Then, the car would not start. It would turn over and act like it wanted to start, but would not. After several minutes of trying, it started and I was able to get it home. After getting home, I killed the engine and tried to start it again, and no luck. I then tested the wires at the ICM for the crank sensors, and I got the same readings as I had gotten before replacing the sensors. This morning I am going to test the wiring harness leading from the ICM to the sensors. By the way, I have also come to the conclusion that it will be worth your time to support the engine and remove the bottom engine mount before attempting to replace these crank sensors. As this was one of the hardest things I have had to do in my 30 years of working on cars.

I will post my findings when I complete this step of my battle with P083.

Oh, I found a shorted spark plug wire that was causing the engine to run rough, and replaced it. The P080 code was being sent because the idle learn process was not being recorded. I will give you the steps I did to set this. It was a procedure a little different from bbob's, but close. It did work for me.

BeelzeBob
10-19-04, 03:48 PM
The crank sensors are much easier to get to if you remove the plastic splash panel from between the radiator cradle and the front crossmember of the cradle underneath the car so as to be able to reach above the cradle crossmember instead of trying to work between the cradle and the engine block.

You might take the coil pack apart and look at the ign module in the base of the coil pack for corrosion or other problems at the coil connections.

A crank sensor should have set a code....I'm surprised on that package that a crank sensor was failed if there was no crank sensor code. That crank sensor code for the 93-99 sensors was pretty robust. It would detect a failing/failed sensor and default to single sensor operation and set a code. I think there is another problem.

rswaim
10-19-04, 05:09 PM
bbob,
Thanks once again for your input. :worship: : I did not have a plastic gaurd, probably one of those things that met a faithful end before I purchased the car. I was able to get the engine mount out of the way, and it sure was alot easier getting access to the sensors. What I did discover, was an amount of oil had attracked dirt and scum around the pins and inside the connector. Spraying a little WD-40 on the connector and pins, cleaned them out. Before finding the dirt, however, I was able to get an ohms reading at the connector at the ICM. This reading was not acceptable, as it was the same readings as before. I then got a reading on the sensors I had removed, indicating they too, were OK. As you said, there should have been a code pop up. The shop foreman is the one who suggested I change them out. Great for parts business, huh. I'll look into that ICM corrosion possibility, thanks.
The result is, I now have no codes and she is running fine. I just flushed the cooling system and filled with DEX-COOL. Hopefully, this is the last time I'll see this code pop up.
NOW, bbob, my cruise control stays on for 5 seconds and cuts off, what's up with that? Any suggestions? :confused:

BeelzeBob
10-19-04, 08:45 PM
bbob,
Thanks once again for your input. :worship: : I did not have a plastic gaurd, probably one of those things that met a faithful end before I purchased the car. I was able to get the engine mount out of the way, and it sure was alot easier getting access to the sensors. What I did discover, was an amount of oil had attracked dirt and scum around the pins and inside the connector. Spraying a little WD-40 on the connector and pins, cleaned them out. Before finding the dirt, however, I was able to get an ohms reading at the connector at the ICM. This reading was not acceptable, as it was the same readings as before. I then got a reading on the sensors I had removed, indicating they too, were OK. As you said, there should have been a code pop up. The shop foreman is the one who suggested I change them out. Great for parts business, huh. I'll look into that ICM corrosion possibility, thanks.
The result is, I now have no codes and she is running fine. I just flushed the cooling system and filled with DEX-COOL. Hopefully, this is the last time I'll see this code pop up.
NOW, bbob, my cruise control stays on for 5 seconds and cuts off, what's up with that? Any suggestions? :confused:


Any cruise codes???

Check the adjustment of the brake pedal switch and/or try the cruise next time while pulling up on the brake pedal with your toe to firmly seat the brake pedal lever against the switch. If the cruise kicks off with no codes then it is most likely the brake switch opening on a small bump or vibration causing the cruise to think you just touched the brake pedal. There are several brake switches for lights, cruise interlock and VCC interlock so make sure the connections are good and the switches are adjusted correctly.

peteski
10-20-04, 01:39 AM
What I did discover, was an amount of oil had attracked dirt and scum around the pins and inside the connector. Spraying a little WD-40 on the connector and pins, cleaned them out. Before finding the dirt, however, I was able to get an ohms reading at the connector at the ICM. This reading was not acceptable, as it was the same readings as before. I then got a reading on the sensors I had removed, indicating they too, were OK. ...

The result is, I now have no codes and she is running fine. I just flushed the cooling system and filled with DEX-COOL. Hopefully, this is the last time I'll see this code pop up.


You say that reading at the ICM end of the crank sensor connector was unacceptable. Was it higher or lower than expected?
I assume you measured the resistance in the connector attached to the wires, not on the ICM itself.
After you cleaned out the gunk, did you take another resistance reading at the same spot?

As you said, since the sensor resistance was ok, then it has to be the wiring (or maybe the gunk inside the connector).

Hopefully cleaning out the gunk fixed the problem.

Peteski

rswaim
10-20-04, 08:07 AM
bbob, I will try the brake switch thing this morning. Thanks for the tip.
peteski, the readings were low on the bottom sensor. I checked them from the beginning, the first reading was the same, low on the one sensor. After changing them out, the two of them measured the same. And, yes, I measured the resistance at the connector leading to the sensors, at the ICM. After the incident at the spection, I returned home to find the readings were low, once again to the bottom sensor. That's when I cleaned the connectors and everything has been fine since. I do not have any codes at all, all computers are reporting "no codes".
Once again, thank ya'll for your valuable inputs.

hardley-etc
10-20-04, 12:41 PM
rswaim


what procedure did you use to get rid of the P080 code

The P080 code was being sent because the idle learn process was not being recorded. I will give you the steps I did to set this. It was a procedure a little different from bbob's, but close. It did work for me.

I have the same code and can't get rid of it.

thanks in advance (TIA)

rswaim
10-21-04, 12:25 AM
The shop foreman told me to:
1) Disconnect the battery for 2 minutes. Then re-connect.
2) Turn Ignition on, do not start engine, enter diagnostics and clear PCM codes. Once you clear codes, turn ignition off.
3) Repeat step 2 for a total of three times.
4) Start engine, allow to idle for 5 minutes.
5) After that, put in gear, allow to idle for 5 minutes.
6) Then idle and turn on air conditoner, allow to idle for 3 minutes.
7) Turn off engine.

That's what I did. I am sure that if that is not the "proper way", someone will be there for me, and correct me. Good luck.

I do have to tell you this. I do not know everything that will cause this code, but I can tell you, there are other things.
If bbob is on-line, I imagine he can tell you the other things, I believe he knows more about these cars than I do.
Thanks for the reply.
By the way, bbob, the brake pedal thing didn't do it. It still cuts off after 4 seconds. No cruise code, as of yet.

JSMeloche
10-21-04, 08:29 AM
If you have some corrosion on the car your problem might be in the tail lights. The bulb socket tend to corrode or burnt inside the tail light.
I had this problem with my 95 STS, the turn signal were acting very funny at night and brakes light was all funky. Cruise would shut off randomly while cruising. My guess is there was a short in the normal driving light and the brake light in the socket kicking off the cruise. Might look stupid but it might be simple as this!!!

rswaim
10-21-04, 11:07 AM
JSMeloche, thanks for the info. Funny, last night my wife was following me home and told me that part of my brake light, on the trunk lid, was not working. I already knew that part of it was out, but when she told me what part it was, I was surprised, when she told me it was a part of it that had previously not been working. The part I knew was working was now the part that wasn't. HUH, RED FLAG. I am going to check this little deal out today. I will get back to ya and let you know what I found out. Thank you.

rswaim
10-22-04, 05:20 PM
for those interested, I did find some corrosion in the brake light sockets and cleaned them out. It didn't, however, solve my problem with the cruise. Anybody have a suggestion for me? :banghead:

JimD
10-22-04, 05:31 PM
You might try new dual filament bulbs in your tail/brake lamp sockets.

It is possible for the filaments to sag and touch which could send a voltage pulse back to the cruise module as if you had touched the brake pedal.

And if it makes no difference, at least you will have spare bulbs....

rswaim
10-22-04, 05:42 PM
Thanks JimD, I did put new ones in when I cleaned the sockets. The "CRUISE ENGAGED" does come on, but it doesn't actually hold the speed at all. The message stays on for about 4 or 5 seconds, then disappears. I am hoping that it is something I can check easily. Help, please. Someone. :deadhorse

peteski
10-25-04, 01:32 AM
Going back to your crank sensors reading low. It could be that some conductive material like metal filings get mixed with the grease and dirt inside of the connector. So, that could have caused the low readings. Strange as those connectors are supposed to be tight (have rubber seals).

As far as your cruise goes, it is normal for the "cruise engaged" message to stay on for only few seconds. A working car does that too. But as you know, on a working car the cruise actually works too. :)

I'm surprised that it doesn't set any error codes. I don't have the Manuals handy, but I'm sure you can run some tests which would help you in diagnosing this problem. Maybe someone else can help here.

If you have the manuals, read up on the Cruise circuit and troubleshooting. If not, you should think of getting a set of Factory Service Manuals.

Peteski

dspringer
10-25-04, 10:57 AM
By the way, I have also come to the conclusion that it will be worth your time to support the engine and remove the bottom engine mount before attempting to replace these crank sensors. As this was one of the hardest things I have had to do in my 30 years of working on cars.


This is an awesome help - I just had to recondition some wiring in the CKS harness that melted (it was routed over the exhaust heat shield!:cookoo:). Took me about 3 hours to install a single butt connector. That sucked. I'm going to try this again, and do it right, but this time I'll pull the bottom mount.

oldgamer
10-27-04, 10:49 AM
for those interested, I did find some corrosion in the brake light sockets and cleaned them out. It didn't, however, solve my problem with the cruise. Anybody have a suggestion for me? :banghead:

Because of not getting any cruise error codes, it's looks more like BBOB said, something wrong with switch connected to the brake. You inspected the switch, but did you test it for resistance? I believe it should be short only if you press the pedal. If it's short all the time, pull out the connector and test resistance again. If switch is ok then measure resistance between pins of connector. If it's short then possible that something wrong with cruise off switch on a handle where you actually turn cruise on. unfortunately I don't have a scheme but beleive both these "off" switches are connected.

peteski
10-28-04, 03:19 AM
Because of not getting any cruise error codes, it's looks more like BBOB said, something wrong with switch connected to the brake. You inspected the switch, but did you test it for resistance? I believe it should be short only if you press the pedal. If it's short all the time, pull out the connector and test resistance again. If switch is ok then measure resistance between pins of connector. If it's short then possible that something wrong with cruise off switch on a handle where you actually turn cruise on. unfortunately I don't have a scheme but beleive both these "off" switches are connected.

I also don't have the Wiring Diagram handy but IIRC, this is a normally closed switch. That would make more sense for safety. If the circuit is broken by being damaged or broken by openning the switch (stepping on the brake) , cruise won't work.

So, it should be normally shorted and only open when the brake pedal is depressed.
Again, this is all from memory...

Peteski

rswaim
10-28-04, 09:27 AM
Hey guys,
I am back. Sorry, I have been out of town on a trip for the past 5 days. Upon my return, I did find a code on the cruise. My wife drove the car while I was gone.
I got a code P068. I do not have the repair manuals, but I have been looking into getting them, even though I have a Caddy, I am not rich. But, I do have a 75 Corvette convertable for sale if anyone is interested. Once I sell the vette, I will have the money to spend on the STS and make it complete. Until then, I have resources to spend but would like to research and repair what I can.
I also have a P042. That is the code for the left oxygen sensor, which by the way, is the only other thing I messed with while doing the crank sensors. I believe, like peteski, the wiring harness is the culprit. I am going to try to replace, or repair, this harness. The rubber seals are still on the connectors, so logic tells me the wires are loose in the connectors, or there is a short somewhere in the loom. I will be looking at this. I think the wires have been in the same position for such a long time, that by disturbing the harness, has caused a loose connection. What do ya'll think? :confused:
Back to the cruise. This cruise servo out of sync. What does the book say about a process of getting the servo back in sync? Is there a process or does it require a part to be replaced? Is this code one that will prevent the cruise from working, or is there another component I need to check?

oldgamer
10-28-04, 09:52 AM
Now you have a code P068, so it's easier to understand what's going on.
Because of that code, you don't need to bother to check these switches. Switches are fine. It means that computer GIVES a command to Cruise Control Servo, but Servo can't do a job. So, now you need to find out what's going on with the servo itself or wiring to servo.
The code can't prevent cruise from working, just the opposit.

rswaim
10-29-04, 12:50 PM
oldgamer, I checked the servo for vacuum, with the engine running, no vacuum. Should there be vacuum there? If so, I followed the hose from the servo, and it goes into the firewall. What does this line connect to under the dash? Am I on the right track? :confused:

oldgamer
10-30-04, 12:59 PM
I'm not sure how servo works, so I don't want to disinform you. As I can see it has two vacuum pipes, so I guess it has diafragm (it's shape shows that too) which can move (because of difference of air pressure) and some wiring (possible wires for the switch and position sensor). I think if pipes have a leak somewhere or wiring problem it can be a cause of code you got. Talking about how servo works I beleive that somebody on a forum can help better.

peteski
11-01-04, 02:25 AM
oldgamer, I checked the servo for vacuum, with the engine running, no vacuum. Should there be vacuum there? If so, I followed the hose from the servo, and it goes into the firewall. What does this line connect to under the dash? Am I on the right track? :confused:

I haven't played much with Cruise Control, but IIRC, there are 2 hoses hooked up to the vacuum servo. One (the smaller one) provides vacuum from the engine. I think that one might be shown on the vacuum diagram label on the hood. When the engine is running, there shoudl be vacuum in that hose. Then the larger hose is a safety vacuum release hose. That goes into the firewall and to a vacuum valve which is activated by the brake pedal. So, if you step on the brake while in cruise, it will equalize the pressure inside the servo (to disable it).

If you have no vacuum in the small hose, the servo will not work.

I'm statiing all this from memory, so I could have missed something.

As far as your crank sensor harness goes, it does seem that it is defective. But on the other hand, most wiring defects are usually open circuits and you mentioned that when it is acting up, the resistance is lower than expected (indicates a short). Unless insulation between the wires is frayed - so they are shorting out.

Peteski

rswaim
11-01-04, 06:24 PM
peteski, Thank you for your response. I will check the vacuum source for the smaller line, alot of help.

On the harness, I was wondering if the sensor could be pointing at a location on the crank that would be giving a signal to the sensor. I guess what I'm saying is, on the crank shaft, there was be a tooth wheel or something that puts off a signal for the sensor to pick up. I was wondering if the engine could have stopped at a position that would cause one sensor to be reading that signal, while the other one wasa inbetween points, and getting the same re-action? I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I have taken the ohm meter and held it on the harness at the ICM and moved the harness at the sensor end, and not had a loss on the meter. Indicating to me that there was not a short in the harness. It's got me by short hairs. While I was driving it today, the SES light would blink off and on, and every once in a while, I would see it go off for several minutes, just to come back on. It acts like a loose wire that makes contact from time to time. It may be a coincidence, but it seems like when I hit brake kinda hard, it goes off for an instant, and comes back on. When it is off, sometimes I apply the brake under normal braking, and it will come on and stay on. Sometimes when I start it up in the mornings, the light doesn't come on until much later, no matter what I am doing. And, sometimes the light will be on when I crank it up .

Do you think it has a GREMLIN running loose in it, or what?

It has me pulling my hair out. I am still open for suggestions. Where's bbob when you need him? I don't know, you may be just as educated as he, I don't want to offend anyone.

Once again, thank you for your reply.

peteski
11-02-04, 02:10 AM
On the harness, I was wondering if the sensor could be pointing at a location on the crank that would be giving a signal to the sensor. I guess what I'm saying is, on the crank shaft, there was be a tooth wheel or something that puts off a signal for the sensor to pick up. I was wondering if the engine could have stopped at a position that would cause one sensor to be reading that signal, while the other one wasa inbetween points, and getting the same re-action? I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I have taken the ohm meter and held it on the harness at the ICM and moved the harness at the sensor end, and not had a loss on the meter. Indicating to me that there was not a short in the harness. It's got me by short hairs. While I was driving it today, the SES light would blink off and on, and every once in a while, I would see it go off for several minutes, just to come back on. It acts like a loose wire that makes contact from time to time. It may be a coincidence, but it seems like when I hit brake kinda hard, it goes off for an instant, and comes back on. When it is off, sometimes I apply the brake under normal braking, and it will come on and stay on. Sometimes when I start it up in the mornings, the light doesn't come on until much later, no matter what I am doing. And, sometimes the light will be on when I crank it up .

Do you think it has a GREMLIN running loose in it, or what?

It has me pulling my hair out. I am still open for suggestions. Where's bbob when you need him? I don't know, you may be just as educated as he, I don't want to offend anyone.

Once again, thank you for your reply.

No, crank sensor resistance reading will not be affected by the positiion of the crank encoder. It would only affect the reading if the crank was spinning. Crank sensor is a coil of wire and a magnet. If it is static, no voltage is generated and the position makes no difference. But if the magnetic field is changing (when the crank is rotation) tthat will indice a voltage in the sensor's coil. That voltage woudl then affect reading on your ohmmeter. So, that's not your problem.

I had a intermittant 24X and 4X ICM signal problem. It ended up being the ICM.
But all my sensors verified ok when I was checking them. It only acted up when the car was warmed up. I ended up using freeze-spray to cool down the ICM to the point when it started working again. Since the rest of the engine was hot, I was pretty sure it was the ICM.

What codes get stored after the SES light flickers on?

You do have Gremlins, but persistant troubleshooting will kill them off!

Hey, I'm just a driveway mechanic myself - Bbob is the real expert. I'm not offended. :)

Peteski

rswaim
11-02-04, 09:21 AM
peteski, the only code I have gotten thoughout this whole thing, is P083. I posted a question about this 5 or 6 days ago and have gotten no response at all, that is since I checked it yesterday. The service dept. foreman at the dealer told me that a loose body ground could be the problem. I still do not have a repair manual, so I am not sure just how many of these points there are. I am working on getting the manual, but I still have to convince my CFO, that I need this manual. I am breaking those connections as I can locate them. He, the foreman, told me there are several of these points and to just loosen them and re-tighten them. So far, I have had no luck. But, I know persistance well pervale. That is, with the amount of heads I can get involved in this forum, the better my chances.

I am still bothered by the brake switch factor. The problems I am having seem to be involving the brakes. The LED brake light on the trunk, has a portion that doesn't light up on it's own. With some gentle touching and mild persuation, I can get them all to light up, but not stay on each time the brake is applied. Just bothers me somewhat.

Another opinion on this matter, would be helpful.

Thank you for your response and assistance.

peteski
11-03-04, 03:53 AM
I am still bothered by the brake switch factor. The problems I am having seem to be involving the brakes. The LED brake light on the trunk, has a portion that doesn't light up on it's own. With some gentle touching and mild persuation, I can get them all to light up, but not stay on each time the brake is applied. Just bothers me somewhat.

Another opinion on this matter, would be helpful.

Thank you for your response and assistance.

As I done have a Seville, I can't really answer your question. But from my experience, problem with a half of your 3rd LED stoplight should have nothing to do with the brake switch.

It probably has several separate arrays of LEDs on a common circuit board. It should only have 2 connections to it (power and ground). I'm not sure if that car has the ground or power feed through the brake swittch. So, your problem is most likely a cracked trace on the circuit board or a cracked solder joint on that board. That is confirmed by your flexing experiment. If it is not totally sealed, you could try to take it out and see if you can trace the copper traces and spot the problem.

When red LEDs are powered up they have about 2 Volts across them and 20mA going through them. In orrder to run them from 12-14V they are arranged onto groups of few LEDs wired in series.

I hope this helps... We are getting way off topic on this thread. :)

Peteski

rswaim
11-05-04, 09:03 AM
I agree. This is now needing to go to Electrical for this problem. I still get the P083, 24X reference, and I still have the cruise control issue as well. I will take it to the Electrical Forum to see if I can find a guru to help me. Thank you for all your help.

peteski
11-10-04, 02:46 AM
The 24X problem is very On-topic here! Cruise - borderline.
But the 3rd brake light is way off-topic.

I'm not thrying to moderate things here - just figured that another forum might be better
for that last one.

Peteski

rswaim
11-11-04, 10:52 AM
Thanks, I understand.

I am wondering if the 24x could be getting kicked on, because of the ride control. I have been getting it with bad struts, which I am getting to replace this weekend. As I said earlier, when I hit the brakes and hit a good size pot hole, the SES light blinks off and back on. The only thing it seems to have in common with, is the rattle from the RF strut and the engaging of the brake. I am curious to know if you thing the electrical system could be giving a false signal, as in a bad ground, and causing the error to pop up in the ECM. I know it sounds odd and perhaps challenges logic, but it does seem to be too coincidental for all these symptoms to be happening at the same time.

What do you thing?

Pjs
11-11-04, 07:41 PM
I was wondering if the sensor could be pointing at a location on the crank that would be giving a signal to the sensor. I guess what I'm saying is, on the crank shaft, there was be a tooth wheel or something that puts off a signal for the sensor to pick up. I was wondering if the engine could have stopped at a position that would cause one sensor to be reading that signal, while the other one wasa inbetween points, and getting the same re-action?

Here is a pic of the crank sensor timing wheel. I believe sensor A reads 27 degrees before sensor B

peteski
11-15-04, 02:44 AM
Thanks, I understand.



I am wondering if the 24x could be getting kicked on, because of the ride control. I have been getting it with bad struts, which I am getting to replace this weekend. As I said earlier, when I hit the brakes and hit a good size pot hole, the SES light blinks off and back on. The only thing it seems to have in common with, is the rattle from the RF strut and the engaging of the brake. I am curious to know if you thing the electrical system could be giving a false signal, as in a bad ground, and causing the error to pop up in the ECM. I know it sounds odd and perhaps challenges logic, but it does seem to be too coincidental for all these symptoms to be happening at the same time.

What do you thing?
Maybe you do have a flaky connection somewhwere...


I suppose anything is possible
:banghead:

But the Crank sensors aren't grounded through the wiring harness. IIRC, they are "floating ground". That is why both leads (from each) hook up to the ICM. The ICM itself is grounded. So is the 24X code intermittant?

If you were to clear the codes while driving and then right after the SES light comes on read the codes again, would the 24X code be stored as Current (or History) ?

You would probably have to get an Oscilloscope and hook it up to the 24X signal and
monitor it while driving. Then you could see when it gets interrupted.

You could also use Oscilloscope to monitor the crank sensors.

But, portable Oscilloscopes are hard to find if you don't know anyone in the electronic field.

Peteski