: Katech high capacity heat exchanger for CTS-V



Katech
06-09-11, 02:03 PM
http://cdn.nexternal.com/katech/images/KAT-6389_1.jpg
After much positive response of our high capacity heat exchanger for the ZR1, customers began asking for a version for the new CTS-V. We have developed a larger capacity heat exchanger for the new CTS-V to help cool the intake charge of modified CTS-Vs making more boost. The exchanger is roughly double to size of the factory unit. Pre-order now for 6/20/11 delivery!

http://store.katechengines.com/cts-v-high-capacity-heat-exchanger-p267.aspx

thebigjimsho
06-09-11, 02:07 PM
Now the magic question: How many fins per inch? More or less than stock?

BLitzkrieg
06-09-11, 02:10 PM
Does it have a bleeder at the top?

EVIL_C5
06-09-11, 02:33 PM
interesting, I would like to see a comparison over some of the other HE's that are on the market....

days like today when its 97 degrees, I know its probably like putting a blowtorch into the throttle body....

Katech
06-09-11, 02:35 PM
Now the magic question: How many fins per inch? More or less than stock?

I think the more relevant question is how much surface area the fins have. Since this heat exchanger is twice as thick, about double.

Katech
06-09-11, 02:36 PM
Does it have a bleeder at the top?

Not on my first production piece that I test fitted. Why, did you want one?

BLitzkrieg
06-09-11, 02:42 PM
I think the more relevant question is how much surface area the fins have. Since this heat exchanger is twice as thick, about double.

The surface area is dictated by fins per inch, charge row size, and physical dimensions. Just because the physical size is double doesn't mean the surface area is. It looks like 18-20 fins per inch. Also I hope there is a bleeder on the top of the core.
Other than that it looks great.

BLitzkrieg
06-09-11, 02:45 PM
Not on my first production piece that I test fitted. Why, did you want one?

Since the inlet and outlet are more than halfway down the tank, you will have a hard time bleeding it. I've actually built 2 bleeders on horizontal cores (one at the top of each tank) with lines that run up to the fill tank so that it constantly has the means to bleed out air. If someone were to install that core then fill it, they would only get partial capacity of it. The area above the inlet and outlet would be a big air pocket.

Katech
06-09-11, 02:55 PM
The surface area is dictated by fins per inch, charge row size, and physical dimensions. Just because the physical size is double doesn't mean the surface area is. It looks like 18-20 fins per inch. Also I hope there is a bleeder on the top of the core.
Other than that it looks great.

I'm aware of that.

haterinc
06-09-11, 03:10 PM
Looking forward to seeing this in action since it's a little different, but surprised they went this small since there are some other big fmhx out there that dont just perform but look great too.

After much positive response of our high capacity heat exchanger for the ZR1, customers began asking for a version for the new CTS-V.* We have developed a larger capacity heat exchanger for the new CTS-V to help cool the intake charge of modified CTS-Vs making more boost.* The exchanger is roughly double to size of the factory unit.* Pre-order now for 6/20/11 delivery!

http://store.katechengines.com/cts-v-high-capacity-heat-exchanger-p267.aspx*
*

Katech
06-09-11, 04:19 PM
Looking forward to seeing this in action since it's a little different, but surprised they went this small since there are some other big fmhx out there that dont just perform but look great too.



We wanted to make a nice bolt-in piece that maximizes available space with no cutting required. I don't know why you're saying it's small. It's almost twice as big as the ZR1 upgraded heat exchanger.

haterinc
06-09-11, 05:03 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, it's smaller than some of the other after market units but we all know size doesmt = efficiency

jpoole
06-09-11, 06:34 PM
Hi, from the link to pre-order it say's, "Warning: Not recommended for extremely hot climates".

I am in Texas and it is pretty hot here, would this not work for me here? Also, why would this not be recommended for hot climates?

Thanks

kirbyCTSV
06-09-11, 08:09 PM
Hi, from the link to pre-order it say's, "Warning: Not recommended for extremely hot climates".

I am in Texas and it is pretty hot here, would this not work for me here? Also, why would this not be recommended for hot climates?

Thanks

confused...isnt it the pt of upgradiing ur heatx is to handle heat?

dvandentop
06-09-11, 10:04 PM
nice any other v2 parts planned??

just like the vettes from race car to the street :D

JOEYCTS-V
06-09-11, 10:36 PM
confused...isnt it the pt of upgradiing ur heatx is to handle heat?

I could be wrong but my guess is that it blocks the radiator more than the stock one.

Caddy Wagon
06-09-11, 10:55 PM
I could be wrong but my guess is that it blocks the radiator more than the stock one.

Good guess, I bet you are correct.

Katech
06-10-11, 08:16 AM
Hi, from the link to pre-order it say's, "Warning: Not recommended for extremely hot climates".

I am in Texas and it is pretty hot here, would this not work for me here? Also, why would this not be recommended for hot climates?

Thanks

A better heat exchanger removes heat from the water of the intercooler system and puts it into the air. The next place that air goes is through the radiator. Since the efficiency of a heat exchanger is in part determined by the temperature of the ambient air entering it, the higher that goes the less effective the radiator will be. Since we did not perform extreme climate testing like GM does, we want to put that disclaimer for customers in desert climates such as the Middle East.

BLitzkrieg
06-10-11, 11:57 AM
A better heat exchanger removes heat from the water of the intercooler system and puts it into the air. The next place that air goes is through the radiator. Since the efficiency of a heat exchanger is in part determined by the temperature of the ambient air entering it, the higher that goes the less effective the radiator will be. Since we did not perform extreme climate testing like GM does, we want to put that disclaimer for customers in desert climates such as the Middle East.

IAT can affect engine BTU output. We have seen engine oil temps reduced by reducing AIT from intercooling.

Umrswimr
06-10-11, 04:26 PM
Since the inlet and outlet are more than halfway down the tank, you will have a hard time bleeding it. I've actually built 2 bleeders on horizontal cores (one at the top of each tank) with lines that run up to the fill tank so that it constantly has the means to bleed out air. If someone were to install that core then fill it, they would only get partial capacity of it. The area above the inlet and outlet would be a big air pocket.

This is a good point. How does one fill the tank and not have it half full of air?

lavaman
06-10-11, 05:44 PM
This is a good point. How does one fill the tank and not have it half full of air?

Pull a vacuum on the the empty system and then use that vacuum to draw the system full with coolant. There is a tool for this, but it is not in my garage and probably not owned by many here on this forum.

jpoole
06-10-11, 06:55 PM
A better heat exchanger removes heat from the water of the intercooler system and puts it into the air. The next place that air goes is through the radiator. Since the efficiency of a heat exchanger is in part determined by the temperature of the ambient air entering it, the higher that goes the less effective the radiator will be. Since we did not perform extreme climate testing like GM does, we want to put that disclaimer for customers in desert climates such as the Middle East.

So, is Texas OK? DFW area, it will be triple digits next week and that is HOT :). Will it have bleeders or a fill inlet on top?

Also, can you post up install instructions? Wondering if it can be installed without removing the frontend fasia or not. Thanks

haterinc
06-11-11, 11:11 AM
I'd like to see pics mounted to see how visible it is from the front, I've always been a fan of seeing fmic or fmhx in the grills :devil:

Halltech
06-12-11, 09:18 PM
This first unit is going on the Halltech build which is close to completion. So far the only thing dynoed is our Carbon Fiber Ram Air Induction setup drawing cold air from the right side brake cooling duct.

It made 462 RWHP on the Mustang dyno vs. 442 RWHP stock.

We should have final numbers next week with the full Katech package.

Jim Hall

Katech
06-13-11, 09:09 AM
Just bled the prototype with no bleeder. No problem.

(We will be adding a bleeder though to make it easy)

Katech
06-13-11, 05:14 PM
I'd like to see pics mounted to see how visible it is from the front, I've always been a fan of seeing fmic or fmhx in the grills :devil:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/255063_10150212267184354_246814449353_6881297_5209 605_n.jpg

haterinc
06-14-11, 06:17 PM
with the shape of that, isn't part of the cooling blocked from the incoming air? any reasons you didn't do the longer rectangular style?

CTSV4now
06-14-11, 06:24 PM
This is a tough crowd. How can we expect vendors to develop products if we slam all new offerings? At least this thing mounts to something and isn't just wedged into the lower grill area.

muohio
06-14-11, 06:53 PM
After having a Vette and following Katech, I can only be excited about them offering products for the V. Nice to see a knowledgeable and proven vendor on board.

TurboEd
06-15-11, 09:09 AM
After having a Vette and following Katech, I can only be excited about them offering products for the V. Nice to see a knowledgeable and proven vendor on board.I have to absolutely agree with muohio on this for the same reasons. Nothing but great things to say about Jason and the whole crew at Katech. Experience with their products on the Vettes has been a pleasure.

Umrswimr
06-15-11, 10:45 AM
This is a tough crowd. How can we expect vendors to develop products if we slam all new offerings? At least this thing mounts to something and isn't just wedged into the lower grill area.

I don't see anyone "slamming" this product, just asking questions. Katech is VERY well known in Corvette land, so their reputation preceeds them.

CTSV4now
06-15-11, 11:28 AM
I tend to stretch the truth a little, sort of like "fastest production sedan in the world".

haterinc
06-15-11, 11:37 AM
my question was meant for them to explain their design and as to how their product might be superior to others out there since i am a prospective buyer at the moment. hell they race these cars so they obv know what they're doing.

if i did have a complaint it would be that this product should've been out 3 years earlier along with that bad@$$ hood! lol

cbloveday
06-15-11, 01:12 PM
Look forward to seeing more products from Katech for our Vs. Keep up the good work guys. I'm a fan.

Katech
06-15-11, 05:01 PM
with the shape of that, isn't part of the cooling blocked from the incoming air? any reasons you didn't do the longer rectangular style?

We did exactly what we did for our ZR1 heat exchanger upgrade. We followed the lines of the factory heat exchanger, just made it twice as thick to double the capacity. There is not much room in the front of the car. We wanted to make a part that looked factory but offered more capacity. It's an easy bolt in. No cutting, custom lines, mounting brackets, etc. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best one.

haterinc
06-15-11, 07:27 PM
well there... you... go... as said on Bob and Tom

thx for the update... ps you forgot to mention when that hood will be out lol

Katech
06-17-11, 04:50 PM
Tested on the chassis dyno today. Very pleased with the results.
IAT 92F starting 7.5 second dyno run ended 102F with 45mph static wind blowing on the front


Remote bleeders are going on production units. Very slick. I think you guys will like.

Halltech
06-17-11, 04:54 PM
The final numbers are sick.

Two caveats here worth noting.

Automatic with a .795 correction factor based on 442 RWHP stock.

Stock exhaust. No headers, stock cats, and mufflers. Sound should be pretty close to the same.

I'll let Jason do the honors.

Jim Hall

Katech
06-27-11, 03:46 PM
You spoke and we listened. We have integrated a remote bleeder. The first batch of heat exchangers are ready for shipment.

77115

jpoole
06-27-11, 06:41 PM
Looks great. Just ordered one!

DrumStix
06-27-11, 11:58 PM
Sometimes the simplest answer is the best one.

Sometimes, though in this case, I disagree. But I still like you guys. :)

DrumStix
06-28-11, 12:06 AM
Tested on the chassis dyno today. Very pleased with the results.
IAT 92F starting 7.5 second dyno run ended 102F with 45mph static wind blowing on the front

Is this Iat1 or Iat2 data please? If Iat1, please show Iat2 data and ambient.
Also how long, per the log, was it until that Iat returned to 92?

Nutz
06-28-11, 04:41 PM
Keep 'em comin Jason. There's a whole lot of us that don't get into the technical discussions that want to see more of your products too. Thanks for testing the waters here first.

DrumStix
06-28-11, 07:10 PM
The reason I asked is just to discuss the technology behind how the cars sensors work. IAT1 is measured before the air passes through the intercooler. After the intercooler, where the heat exchanger is providing the freshly cooled mixture, the IAT2 measures the temperature again for the delta. This is key in judging the effectiveness of the HX element.

Data measured should appear to be something like this:
Ambient in dyno room: 80 degrees
Engine coolant temperature (ECT): 180 degrees at the start of the run
IAT1 data, at the start of the run and end of the run. Something like 90 ramping to 100 for a stock unit
IAT2 from the start to the end of the run. Something like 100 ramping to 120

So IAT2 is the important data point and where the HX comes into play for the most part. Also, IAT tables begin to aggressively pull timing, starting at 149 degrees but this is tunable and configurable.

baabootoo
06-28-11, 11:32 PM
Hi, from the link to pre-order it say's, "Warning: Not recommended for extremely hot climates".

I am in Texas and it is pretty hot here, would this not work for me here? Also, why would this not be recommended for hot climates?

Thanks

He skipped a few words, "w/o other upgrades.....such as a radiator". Probably because it does such a good job of exchanging heat, the radiator will see temps a lot higher than normal. Maybe he means across the big pond...... :) I wouldn't worry much in the US though. Oh, the new link does show a remote bleeder also.

jpoole
06-29-11, 06:41 PM
No, that is what it said at the time of my post.

It now says, "Warning: Not recommended for extremely hot desert climates without other cooling system upgrades such as a radiator".

When I spoke with them they had told me they were refering to customers in desert regions of the world.



He skipped a few words, "w/o other upgrades.....such as a radiator". Probably because it does such a good job of exchanging heat, the radiator will see temps a lot higher than normal. Maybe he means across the big pond...... :) I wouldn't worry much in the US though. Oh, the new link does show a remote bleeder also.

DrumStix
06-29-11, 07:47 PM
wow the price on this is cheaper than the KD one wondering what the difference is in performance between the 2.

kd one is $989 and Dimensions 36"W X 7"H X 5.5"D

the katech is what size? and its $799 about 200 less.

Im trying to see the difference because 200 dollars is a lot for a difference in price for a heat exchanger

That is some information that would not be right for us to post in Katek's thread. I will PM you the details.

68ragtop69
08-11-11, 09:44 AM
At least this thing mounts to something and isn't just wedged into the lower grill area.

I agree!! I love the fact that this HX bolts right into the car using the stock mounting points!!!

Riderover50
04-02-13, 11:14 PM
I know likely not but is this a dual pass design? Could you make it dual pass without adding much cost? The cheapest dual pass I can find is only $200 more, maybe worth the extra $$! It measures 31 long x 6 tall x 3-1/4 deep. Any idea if dual pass is worth 200 bucks more ?

Random84
04-03-13, 12:40 PM
I know likely not but is this a dual pass design? Could you make it dual pass without adding much cost? The cheapest dual pass I can find is only $200 more, maybe worth the extra $$! It measures 31 long x 6 tall x 3-1/4 deep. Any idea if dual pass is worth 200 bucks more ?

holy 20-month thread bump, batman! :D