: Oil, cams, Northstars, and ZDDP



Submariner409
06-06-11, 08:14 PM
Anyone with a pre-2000 Northstar (or any other flat-tappet cammed engine) needs to get the August issue of Car Craft and go to Page 36. Read and heed.

Ranger
06-06-11, 10:52 PM
August is out already? I may have to read that, but I think all my families cars are rollers.

EDIT:
Oops. I think my daughters Pontiac 3.4 V-6 might be flat tappet.

2nd EDIT:
Can't tell from Compnine. They seem to show push rods for it as well as my wife's '05 Buick 3.8. I could have sworn the FSM I had for her '96 said rollers. Hard to believe they'd go backwards. :hmm:

drewsdeville
06-06-11, 11:25 PM
The 2.8/3.1/3.4 moved to roller lifters sometime in the early '90's, not sure which year exactly. The 3800 had roller lifters since Series I in the late '80's.

Those engines are OHV, so you'll be able to find pushrods for the engine whether it's roller or flat tappet. If it was OHC, you wouldn't find pushrods listed.

98eldo32v
06-07-11, 03:22 AM
I don't think this is going to be good.....

Ranger
06-07-11, 11:36 AM
The 2.8/3.1/3.4 moved to roller lifters sometime in the early '90's, not sure which year exactly. The 3800 had roller lifters since Series I in the late '80's.

Those engines are OHV, so you'll be able to find pushrods for the engine whether it's roller or flat tappet. If it was OHC, you wouldn't find pushrods listed.

That is more like what I suspected. I feel much better now. Thanks for the confirmation. :thumbsup:

eldoedwardo
06-21-11, 04:42 PM
I just read that article from car craft august/2011..very-very informative..I clicked onto the valvoline site and asked them what the rating for SYNpower5w-30 on the complete chart was--the container only indicates that it is at 85% were the others are at 75-77% phosphorous retention.. it seems that the only benefactor for lower ZDDP is the catalytic converter,although I do appriciate my converters good health, they are cheaper than the sixteen pack of lifters, exhaust valves, and both exhaust cams..and labor...GM shop doesn,t know why they crapped out..I think I may have some insight on that now.....I am not saying anything bad about this shop,I saw the parts (actually still have them), they worked with me quite well.I am pleased with them.their work was at106K,now at 113K,they also had to redo the certs with factory oversized ones , because Major Cadillac inKC,MO at 63K did not install them correctly, apparently they would not hold for the 106K assembly I asked about studs like race car engines and the service manager looked at the machanic then at me and said they are not available (I know differently now). My knowledge of the upper end is much higher now, my hope is that i'll never have to worry about lower end ever! I have alldata now, but i'm still trying to learn how to navigate to the places i want to visit.....thanks for the thread about car craft...POWER to the Northstar.....Ed

Submariner409
06-21-11, 05:05 PM
..............yeah, ALLDATA has a wealth of info - so much that it's hard to find at times. My primary use for it is that it has all DTC's and definitions, all recalls, labor rates, and all TSB's for our cars - up to about year 2009 so far. The plain explanations of various systems operation are helpful, too.

vincentm
06-21-11, 05:33 PM
gonna pick this up and and have a good read, thanks again Sub.

Ranger
06-21-11, 06:55 PM
asked them what the rating for SYNpower5w-30 on the complete chart was--the container only indicates that it is at 85% were the others are at 75-77% phosphorous retention

Does this help any?

89falcon
06-21-11, 08:03 PM
Does this help any?

Ranger,
do you think this is worth buying?
http://www.barsproducts.com/4401.htm

My local parts stores only seem to heavier weights of Rotella (15w-40). Is there a problem using it the heavier weight? I'm in a "colder" climate.

Submariner409
06-21-11, 11:24 PM
15W-40 is too high in viscosity ratings for a tight clearance Northstar engine. Rotella IS marketed in a 10W-30 viscosity, the recommended weight for your engine. So is Pennzoil LongLife. A bit of searching will find it near you. (Shell, Pennzoil, Quaker State - all products of SOPUS = Shell Oil Products U.S.)

You could buy the Rislone additive product and do a volumetric calculation to find the required amount of product to mix with an XXX brand of SM or SN oil in order to obtain a satisfactory ZDDP level of protection. Or you could find an online supplier of fleet/marine oils and buy the ready-mixed product by the case.

Ranger
06-21-11, 11:27 PM
:noidea: This could start a whole new oil war. :hide: I really don't think you need that, but won't hurt anything if you want to use it. There are other ZDDP additives out there as well.

Supposedly Rotella makes a 10W30, but I have yet to see it. The other option is to use 5 quarts of 15W40 and thin it down with two quarts of 5W20. That should get you close to 10W30.

EDIT:
Oops, Sub beat me to it.

Speedygman
06-22-11, 12:02 AM
This is what I went to. I don't have noo stinking catalytic converters.
http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/products/syntheticracingoil/index.html

Ranger
06-22-11, 12:08 AM
Here's the one I was thinking of. You be the judge.
http://www.zddplus.com/

Submariner409
06-22-11, 12:25 AM
It's all good stuff, BUT REMEMBER not to get caught up in the novice gearhead trap of "If a little bit is good, more must be better." You NEED to know your present lubricant's baseline additive package and fortify that with aftermarket additives - you DON'T just dump in a jug or two. Get carried away and the chances of engine/catalytic converter damage skyrocket.

RedLine and Edelbrock also market ZDDP additives, as well as TORCO.

JoeTahoe
06-22-11, 12:45 AM
my local Napa stocks 10w30 Rotella

eldoedwardo
06-23-11, 01:27 PM
you guys can read that article at car craft magazine. I think you chose article preview,or something like that....Ed

eldoedwardo
06-23-11, 02:43 PM
Hey everyone,just finished with some of the reading that you guys provided..I read speedygman,s contribution, Gibbs oil is one of the recommended oils in that car craft article,xp3 and xp6 sounds interesting...and rangers extra reading was informative also..I like #4 and#9 really good reading...at the end of #3 it claims thatZDDP should not be used with silver alloy bearings! ok---without knowing what kind of bearings came out in factory lower end assembly...and the parts sheet on the106K exhaust valve job dosent even show cam bearings listed I'm back to square one...do you think they used the old cam bearings? Well apparently they did! They're not listed on the invoice or in my worn parts box,...man am I dissapointed....ok just let it pass-by, karma is alive and has its hands full. I own an every kind of weld you would need shop and some fabrication for the last 19 years, I don't understand how dishonest or half-truthers can sleep at night....hey thanks for the articles, im waiting on Valvoline to send their reply..I'll let ya'll know what they said....Power to the NORTHSTAR...Ed

RippyPartsDept
06-23-11, 03:00 PM
link please? i couldn't find the article... you would think that they would keep that under wraps so people will buy subscriptions

Submariner409
06-23-11, 04:48 PM
do you think they used the old cam bearings? Well apparently they did! They're not listed on the invoice or in my worn parts box

No replaceable cam bearing inserts - the line bored aluminum head saddles and caps is/are the bearing(s).

............and your (flat tappet cam follower) engine uses aluminum alloy-faced main and rod bearing inserts. The specs are in the GM Service Manual.

Your read of Speedygman's Northstar may be a bit off: That engine is extensively modified, is a longitudinal install with manual transmission in a ?? 1932 ?? Ford. Therefore no cat damage to worry about from excessive ZDDP loading.

JoeTahoe
06-23-11, 06:21 PM
:yeah:

eldoedwardo
06-24-11, 11:56 AM
Hey everyone, Chris, I used www.carcraft.com...hope it helps.....thanks for the bearing info

eldoedwardo
06-24-11, 12:18 PM
Hey everyone, revision.......I think they heard you Chris! try this one ....www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0702_break_in_new_cam/index.html HAPPY FRIDAY Ed

RippyPartsDept
06-24-11, 12:43 PM
That article is from 2009

tateos
04-03-12, 08:15 PM
Here you go, gents - some more info:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/98566/zddp_when_where_what_why_how.aspx

Submariner409
04-04-12, 10:24 AM
More goodies - read as much of this site as you can................(and the link in Post #13)
HR-4 looks good, but for a vehicle with a catalytic converter don't mix it greater than 1/6 with your normal oil.
LS-30 looks good also.........
Check out the FR-20 - A 5W-20 synthetic for Ford supercharged engines.

http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/