: Bought a new Caddy 88 Brougham D'elegance sitting on wire wheels



lacville78
05-30-11, 03:48 PM
Hey,

Here is a link to the pics of the car

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37531456@N03/5777515722/in/photostream

I saw this one on craigslist and had to get it. It was in the hill country of Texas. The guy told me it has 42K miles on it. It hasn't been moved in 5yrs. The starter makes a clicking noise. So if im lucky just a bad starter, if im not bad engine (or frozen component).
Its a shame tho. The guy said the car looked good and ran good and they just laid it up. The top is gone, and the paint is faded. But no rust :).
From what I understand this was the Cadillac of Cadillacs. The car even has a Sunroof and documentation of its installation by a houston company when the car only had 17 miles on it.
I also have never seen a caddy with the wire wheels. I even have 3 of stickers for the centercaps for them. I think they are made by Appliance company.

The Engine is the Oldsmobile 307
Also, since the car has sat so long I decided to pull the plugs and put some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders. Now I need to know what size is the crankshaft bolt. Is it Metric or Standard?
That way I can hopefully turn the motor over nice and slow with a breaker bar and oil in the cylinders.

I think I made a good deal I picked up the car for $600
I think the wheels might be worth that alone

cadillac kevin
05-30-11, 04:44 PM
I would guess the crankshaft is standard (same crank as the late 70's olds 350s). I wonder if you can buff out the paint to a semblance of its former color. I had a car (35+ y/o) with metalflake paint that I used 3m glazing compound on (hand rubbed it in) and it would make the paint look about 25 years newer. (wasnt new looking but looked pretty good.)
if the motor turns over I'd say you did very well. aside from the top and paint it looks to be in great shape (no rust) personally I'd peel the top off (if nothing else but to prevent any more moisture from getting under it)-depending on if it rains much there.

lacville78
05-30-11, 07:10 PM
Update!!!

The engine turns over nice and easy!!! For future reference the crankshaft bolt is a 1 and 1/8th
I cant wait to do some work. Things are looking promising.

I will make sure to give the paint a chance with a polishing maybe ill use nufinish

Thanks All

cadillac kevin
05-30-11, 08:08 PM
nufinish is for clear coats

jayoldschool
05-30-11, 08:35 PM
Get Meguiars Ultimate Compound. The best consumer-grade compound you can buy.

85 FLEETWOOD COUPE
05-31-11, 01:53 AM
id love to own a set of caddy stock wires not hubcaps! but nice find 4 sure o and is that your house?????

lacville78
05-31-11, 02:10 AM
id love to own a set of caddy stock wires not hubcaps! but nice find 4 sure o and is that your house?????

haha not my house, its an old rent house that my dad stores junk and car parts in

85 FLEETWOOD COUPE
05-31-11, 02:21 AM
o ok i was about to say,try to clean up them wires and throw i new set of white walls and you in the house!!

lacville78
05-31-11, 02:44 AM
yes, a new top,tires and some detailing will make a big difference

I cant wait to get some shots after I detail the interior it is in really nice shape

Sitting under that huge sunroof with the immaculate leather shining will be a heavenly experience

outsider
05-31-11, 09:09 AM
looks good! I"m sure you will enjoy this car. The olds 307 is a nice little engine. Not very powerful but very reliable.

85 FLEETWOOD COUPE
05-31-11, 10:29 AM
its wayyyyyyy better than the 4100 or the 368 motor

jayoldschool
05-31-11, 11:15 AM
its wayyyyyyy better than ... the 368 motor

Wrong. Most 307 owners on this forum will agree with me. Care to support your statement?

Wheelman322
05-31-11, 11:21 AM
Wrong. Most 307 owners on this forum will agree with me. Care to support your statement?
Have to agree with that statement...the 368 was the final sizedown of the 500...one of the best motors Caddy ever built. Nice find & would just repeat your line about the wheels being worth what you paid.

brougham_geezer
06-01-11, 11:07 AM
Wrong. Most 307 owners on this forum will agree with me. Care to support your statement? I have owned both. There is no way I would ever take a 307 over the 368 big block. My `89 307 Brougham was the slowest, gas-guzzlingest, oil burning machine I`ve owned. My `81 & `83 Olds Eighty-Eights with 307 were delights, however, with good power, economy and never used a drop of oil... but they were not the smooth, torquey operators my 368-powered`80 Coupe Deville or `80 Superior hearse are.

cadillac kevin
06-01-11, 03:56 PM
I'd choose the 368 over the 307 in a caddy any day. hell I'd even take a V8-6-4 368 over the 307 in a caddy.
the 307 in my 83 lesabre is an awesome motor- good economy. plenty of power (5A heads and properly tuned) to move the car with authority (once the 4bbl opens up it'll fly). overall its just a fun motor.

However the 307 in my caddy was underpowered. that 15-20 less hp combined with 500 lbs more weight compared to the smaller lesabre makes the caddy a slug. the caddy could hang with a 4 cyl mid size sedan from 50-70, but otherwise it was truly pathetic. 0-60 took 13 seconds (compared to under 10 in the lesabre). when you floored it, the gas gauge would drop like a rock. even when I would drive conservatively, I only got 16mpg combined. It never burned a drop of oil until the car got wrecked and a head gasket blew. it was also incredibly smooth and pretty reliable once I got the carb properly tuned. but when you stepped on the gas it was 100% gutless.

85 FLEETWOOD COUPE
06-01-11, 04:09 PM
Oops soory guys for the confusion, i had a 77 a loing time ago that a replace the boat anchor gas gussler 425 out for a 350 olds that i mistaken for the 307 olds lol, but i rather have a 500 or the 427 was it but the 425 is useless no power, but i really hate the 4100 but in most cases i just replace the 4100 or olds motors with chevy 305s or 350s

Benzilla
06-01-11, 06:28 PM
Congratulations on your find! WAtch out for the sunroof leaking though. I've had two of them on these cars. One was factory & the other one after-market... they both leak. Just be sure to keep the drain tubes blown out & check the gasket for dry rot.

You could sell those rims and get your $600 back, so yeah, you did good! Can't wait to see progress.

Ben

lacville78
06-02-11, 04:03 AM
Thanks all!

Also I've owned Caddys with the infamous 4.1 and the 307 and three of them with a 425.
The 4100 was a joke, although the car did move. The 307 isnt much better.
But the 425's will move the car good. A properly running 425 will smoke the tires.
Hell the worn out 33yr old 425 in my caddy that only hits on 6 cylinders would beat a stock 307 with 7A heads on it. And I'd be willing to bet money on it.
It's not that a 307 is a bad engine, its very reliable. But a 425 is just as reliable and moves the car alot better. Its a night and day difference!!!!

outsider
06-02-11, 09:30 AM
^ THat's why I wanna swap out my 307 as soon as I can...good engine but dog slow

MudAnt
06-02-11, 11:33 AM
While we're on the subject of the 307, does anyone else feel like their 307-powered Brougham gets far better throttle response on some days than others? I always warm mine up for a bit before driving, but some days it feels like I'm dragging an anvil behind the car, while on other days I actually notice when I hit the gas. I wonder if it will always run in "good" mode when I get a new carb..

outsider
06-02-11, 11:54 AM
Mud, I have the same thing going on with mine. The new carb may help, but when I put mine on (not really new but "recently rebuilt") it didn't change it much. It still has good and bad days depending on any number of factors.

MudAnt
06-02-11, 01:26 PM
Outsider, does yours run really rough for about 30 seconds after you start it, then suddenly runs perfectly smooth? Mine does that, and when it was cold outside I noticed during that 30 seconds, all the exhaust was coming out a pinhole right in front of the catalytic converter. I'm thinking the exhaust/catalytic converter might be the source of this weird "good days and bad days" thing.

outsider
06-02-11, 01:31 PM
Mine doesn't run rough when first started, but you may be on to something with the cats. When i first got the car I replaced the muffler but never replaced the cat.

cadillac kevin
06-03-11, 12:41 AM
marc, have you thought about hollowing out your cat? might get rid of the "towing an anchor" effect. and at the least it will give you more power.

Tallguy222
06-03-11, 08:25 AM
Good luck with the restoration ! I have the same wheels on a Caddy I just imported ( I think ) do you know anything about them ? I can find nothing - they don't seem to be OEM but they do have a "made in Taiwan" plastic Caddy centre caps, complete with crest and wreath.
I tried to post a link but I'm a new so need a few more posts- so forgive me if I slap a pic here in your thread - I'd love any chance of some info on these wheels
thanks

MudAnt
06-03-11, 01:50 PM
One thing you should probably do is have them re-balanced with those special wheel weights that mount to the inside of the wheel. My wire wheels had those cheap clip-on ones when I got them, and there's missing chrome in the spot where they were clipped on.

Those also might not be the factory wire wheels. The center caps are not factory, anyways. The factory ones looked like this:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/Mudpics/1986%20Brougham/Wire%20wheels/P1070473.jpg

MudAnt
06-03-11, 02:12 PM
marc, have you thought about hollowing out your cat? might get rid of the "towing an anchor" effect. and at the least it will give you more power.

Could I just unbolt the cat and replace it with a straight piece of pipe? Or does it need to be cut out?

cadillac kevin
06-03-11, 09:59 PM
depends on your emissions laws. ask a local mechanic if you car still needs a cat to pass inspection (some places require a cat if the car originally came with one, some let you get by without one if if car is made after x year)
if it is required by law, gut it (disconnect pipe after cat, jam large screwdriver into cat, then turn on motor and rev it a while. shut off engine, jam screwdriver up cat and repeat until all the crap is out of the cat). if it isnt required by law, scrap the cat and use the $ to buy a straight piece of pipe and 2 clamps.
as for unbolt vs. cut out, it depends on whether your exhaust is factory or not. most aftermarket exhausts are just clamped together, but some ($$$) are welded. factory exhausts are welded.

Aron9000
06-04-11, 01:59 AM
Good luck with the restoration project!! Hopefully the sunroof doesn't leak on you, mine did one time until I blew the drain tubes open with some shop air. Then the motor wonked out on me and I sold the car before I got around to fixing it. As for the wire wheels, I've heard they can actually become out of round if they sit in one spot for a long time(like years). The weight of the car actually slightly bends the spokes over time. Could just be an old wives tale I heard though.

Nickatina
06-04-11, 04:01 PM
Good luck with the restoration ! I have the same wheels on a Caddy I just imported ( I think ) do you know anything about them ? I can find nothing - they don't seem to be OEM but they do have a "made in Taiwan" plastic Caddy centre caps, complete with crest and wreath.
I tried to post a link but I'm a new so need a few more posts- so forgive me if I slap a pic here in your thread - I'd love any chance of some info on these wheels
thanks





Those also might not be the factory wire wheels. The center caps are not factory, anyways. The factory ones looked like this:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/Mudpics/1986%20Brougham/Wire%20wheels/P1070473.jpg

It's the same wheel that you have. Both wheels are made by Appliance. Might of just offered different style center caps back in the day. Either that, or the smaller center was offered in the 70's & the bigger opening one in the 80's. I'm just guessing on that one though, because The ones I bought for my Brougham came off of a 37k mile '78 Coupe DeVille & are sporting the smaller center. (Other '77-79 Coupes I'm seen also sport the small center, as well)

Tallguy222
06-06-11, 03:27 AM
Thanks for that Nickatina - nice to finally have a name for them ! ( even if does make them sound like a Kitchen item ) :)

pompste
06-08-11, 07:46 AM
depends on your emissions laws. ask a local mechanic if you car still needs a cat to pass inspection (some places require a cat if the car originally came with one, some let you get by without one if if car is made after x year)
if it is required by law, gut it (disconnect pipe after cat, jam large screwdriver into cat, then turn on motor and rev it a while. shut off engine, jam screwdriver up cat and repeat until all the crap is out of the cat). if it isnt required by law, scrap the cat and use the $ to buy a straight piece of pipe and 2 clamps.
as for unbolt vs. cut out, it depends on whether your exhaust is factory or not. most aftermarket exhausts are just clamped together, but some ($$$) are welded. factory exhausts are welded.

By "crap"--do you mean the pellets or beads that are in there? I`d like to hollow out mine.My '78 Deville still has the original cat--still welded.

brougham
06-08-11, 01:23 PM
One thing you should probably do is have them re-balanced with those special wheel weights that mount to the inside of the wheel. My wire wheels had those cheap clip-on ones when I got them, and there's missing chrome in the spot where they were clipped on.

Those also might not be the factory wire wheels. The center caps are not factory, anyways. The factory ones looked like this:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/Mudpics/1986%20Brougham/Wire%20wheels/P1070473.jpg

You can have wheels balanced with weights just on the inside edge of the wheel and those are the same kind that would have been on the front too. The problem with the stick on kind is they are notorious for coming off.

brougham
06-08-11, 01:25 PM
It's the same wheel that you have. Both wheels are made by Appliance. Might of just offered different style center caps back in the day. Either that, or the smaller center was offered in the 70's & the bigger opening one in the 80's. I'm just guessing on that one though, because The ones I bought for my Brougham came off of a 37k mile '78 Coupe DeVille & are sporting the smaller center. (Other '77-79 Coupes I'm seen also sport the small center, as well)

The only factory center caps are the red ones in those pictures. The smaller kind in the other picutre is aftermarket ones. If those are the wheels you got off a 78 they are aftermarket rims too or added to the car at some point later because the factory 70s wire wheels are completely different.

Nickatina
06-11-11, 12:05 PM
The only factory center caps are the red ones in those pictures. The smaller kind in the other picutre is aftermarket ones. If those are the wheels you got off a 78 they are aftermarket rims too or added to the car at some point later because the factory 70s wire wheels are completely different.


I'm sure they did make different wire wheels in the 70's, but I specifically mentioned '77-79. If you know of a '77-79 steel spoke wheel that looks completely different from the pic posted above, please show me it.


They're ALL added to the car at a later point. Its not like GM designed, manufactured & stamped'em in house. ALL made & manufactured by Appliance! Might've been made to GM specs, but Appliance none the less. Yes, including the center caps. My wheels, MudAnts, Tallguys, etc. Appliance wheel Cadillac decal. That's all it is. Period.

jayoldschool
06-11-11, 12:58 PM
These are the 77-79 center caps:

http://images.buyitsellit.com/591104.jpg

brougham
06-11-11, 02:02 PM
I'm sure they did make different wire wheels in the 70's, but I specifically mentioned '77-79. If you know of a '77-79 steel spoke wheel that looks completely different from the pic posted above, please show me it.


They're ALL added to the car at a later point. Its not like GM designed, manufactured & stamped'em in house. ALL made & manufactured by Appliance! Might've been made to GM specs, but Appliance none the less. Yes, including the center caps. My wheels, MudAnts, Tallguys, etc. Appliance wheel Cadillac decal. That's all it is. Period.

jayoldschool's picture is what they look like. Whole different wheel not just the cap.

They aren't all added later, they were a factory option when the cars were new. The rims can be made by whoever but they were still a factory option and the cars showed up at the dealers new with the wheels already on them. The only ones added to a car later are by people who bought the car with regular hubcaps and had the rims changed. I don't know if the red centre caps were made by appliance or GM. There don't seem to be aftermarket ones floating around that are anything similar, except for the reproductions.

Nickatina
06-11-11, 04:55 PM
....

MoistCabbage
06-11-11, 06:45 PM
By "crap"--do you mean the pellets or beads that are in there? I`d like to hollow out mine.My '78 Deville still has the original cat--still welded.

It is not filled with pellets or beads. Inside a converter, is a ceramic or metallic honeycomb core, coated in particles of precious metals.

jayoldschool
06-11-11, 08:13 PM
Not the old ones. The early ones use pellets, not a honeycomb. Yes, the pellets are coated with platinum. The pellet types are notoriously restrictive. Of course, those were around before you were born ;)

See the "fill hole"? That is there to put the pellets in.

http://www.quickhonda.net/images/exhaustpics/Image10.gif