: ls9 cam upgrade question



hlantin
05-30-11, 12:01 PM
for a heads and cam upgrade, would i need to upgrade the p-rod and chain for this? pros/cons? i'm already adding upgraded valve springs and stainless steel exhaust valves..

Domsz06
05-30-11, 12:06 PM
most do the push rods when they do the cam yes for the extra security. Not sure on the chain though. Sorry.

pretty sure every vendor here sells the cam, push rods, and springs as a package deal. Might ask some of them....

Why the ss valves? Most use Titanium....

hlantin
05-30-11, 12:22 PM
Why the ss valves? Most use Titanium....

thanks dom. my tuner recommended the ss. i can ask about titanium and i'll ask him to add the p-rod. besides the fact that titanium is stronger than ss, is titanium chosen for added security? this cam is supposed to be pretty mild, would ss not be able to handle this? i'm kinda' new at this stuff..

wait4me
05-30-11, 12:25 PM
Pushrods are suggested if you go over 550 lift and or if you change your spring rates..

Dual Springs are suggested as well if you change cams over 550 lift. " a safety factor in case one spring breaks the inner spring will hopefully prevent piston to valve."

When you change spring rates, the stock pushrods will start to deflect at higher rpms. So that is why you would want to change them.

On the valves, i would go with a hollowstem intake like an ls3 stock one or aftermarket to get rid of the heavy stock one. Also on the Exhaust we usually use the Inconnel ones. They handle boost very well.

wait4me
05-30-11, 12:28 PM
Titanium is chosen for its weight. They are very light and strong. I normally use them on every ls7 head build we do. It helps with high rpm valvetrain stability. Especially with larger more aggressive ramping rates on the cams we choose.

The titanium valves usually have a cost of about tripple though of a standard valve.

Also on the question of timing chains.

We usually prefer to use the Katech C5R timing chain. It has proven itself over and over again in race after race.. That with an ls3 timing chain tensioner.

hlantin
05-30-11, 01:30 PM
Dual Springs are suggested as well if you change cams over 550 lift. " a safety factor in case one spring breaks the inner spring will hopefully prevent piston to valve."

i'm adding the patriot gold dual extreme valve spring..



Also on the question of timing chains.

We usually prefer to use the Katech C5R timing chain. It has proven itself over and over again in race after race.. That with an ls3 timing chain tensioner.

i'll ask about this as well..

thanks for the input

wait4me
05-30-11, 01:44 PM
The spring of choice for us to use is the comp 26921 kit with titanium retainers. We use those in most our builds here. They are double the price but are a really good spring. That or the Ferrea 700lift Dual Valve Spring Kit made by PAC. They are VERY expensive in terms of springs but they are very good as well.

PremierJosh
05-30-11, 02:11 PM
I would run the stock valves with the ls9 cam unless you are pulling the heads to get ported then go ahead and upgrade to ti.

hlantin
05-30-11, 02:23 PM
I would run the stock valves with the ls9 cam unless you are pulling the heads to get ported then go ahead and upgrade to ti.

thanks josh. yes, the heads are getting ported.

here's my planned build list:

Lower Harmonic balancer
Lower pulley 9.17"
H/Exchanger
160 Thermostat
Ported Throttle Body
Solid Isolator
Full Manifold Porting
CNC Heads
ZR1 Camshaft
Patroit Extreme Valve Springs
Stainless Steel Ex - will be upgraded to titatium
Timing Chain - will be added
Upgraded p-rods - will be added
Dyno/Street Tune

I'm not looking for anything crazy (as far as hp), but something efficient...

wait4me
05-30-11, 02:46 PM
inconnell exhaust valve is not titanium. The intake valve being titanium is a good choice, not the exhaust valve. Big intake valve diameter like we have = big weight. A stainless solid intake valve is way to heavy and not a good choice. If not going with titanium, the ls3 stock intake valve is a direct application that works, it is ALOT lighter than your stock or a stainless valve..

You might also want a 9.5 lower kit instead of that 9 inch one. With the heads, it will like the extra boost.

With that small of a cam though, even heads arent going to make much of a change yet in power. Not untill you go larger..

We did a head only swap on my car to test before and afters, and see whos heads flowed the best/made the most power. I think out of everyones Mti racing was the best of them all in all around gains. But we are talking 1-2 hp in STOCK ENGINE form. Meaning, stock airbox, cam, exhaust, supercharger ect..

As you progress in hp, the more that gain goes up. At 600rwhp it is about 20hp different, at 700 25hp i recall from memory. I have 1000s of dyno logs with befores and afters when we where doing the testing phase of the cars.....

hlantin
05-30-11, 03:25 PM
inconnell exhaust valve is not titanium

i'll keep this in mind as you mentioned that titanium can be costly. i'm trying to stay within a budget.


You might also want a 9.5 lower kit instead of that 9 inch one. With the heads, it will like the extra boost.

i had thought about this as well and i'll have to see where the hp/boost is at with the 9". i'm thinking that with the harmonic balancer, it should be a pretty easy swap? i'm trying to keep the iat's down..


With that small of a cam though, even heads arent going to make much of a change yet in power. Not untill you go larger..

i have to admit that this is tempting since i like the sound of a more aggressive cam, but if the heads are going to make the car more efficient, i'll be okay with it..

cbloveday
05-30-11, 03:26 PM
The spring of choice for us to use is the comp 26921 kit with titanium retainers. We use those in most our builds here. They are double the price but are a really good spring. That or the Ferrea 700lift Dual Valve Spring Kit made by PAC. They are VERY expensive in terms of springs but they are very good as well.

I have a set of Ferrea Dual Valve springs with titanium retainers, chromemoly spring seats, and super 7 locks. They are made with a Pro PAC alloy for endurance applications.

When used with the LS7 head and installed height, they are good for .700 lift. This spring kit goes for $1175.95.

Domsz06
05-30-11, 04:17 PM
i'll keep this in mind as you mentioned that titanium can be costly. i'm trying to stay within a budget.



i had thought about this as well and i'll have to see where the hp/boost is at with the 9". i'm thinking that with the harmonic balancer, it should be a pretty easy swap? i'm trying to keep the iat's down..



i have to admit that this is tempting since i like the sound of a more aggressive cam, but if the heads are going to make the car more efficient, i'll be okay with it..
once you have a new balancer on it's 6 bolts and a new belt, shouldn't take you anytime at all. (on yeah you need a new idler pulley, not sure if you need one on the 9.) Takes you about 10 min.

DrumStix
05-30-11, 09:43 PM
for a heads and cam upgrade, would i need to upgrade the p-rod and chain for this? pros/cons? i'm already adding upgrading valve springs and stainless steel exhaust valves..

Nope, the stock p-rods and chain are fine.

hlantin
05-31-11, 01:17 AM
once you have a new balancer on it's 6 bolts and a new belt, shouldn't take you anytime at all. (on yeah you need a new idler pulley, not sure if you need one on the 9.) Takes you about 10 min.

i'm pretty sure my tuner included the idler in my build, but i'll ask him just in case.


Nope, the stock p-rods and chain are fine.

glad to hear this! my budget is already being stretched as it is...

Domsz06
05-31-11, 09:16 AM
i'm pretty sure my tuner included the idler in my build, but i'll ask him just in case.



glad to hear this! my budget is already being stretched as it is...

It's just one of those things that if your already going into the engine, most go ahead and do the rods.