: STS vs BMW



ATL STS
05-27-11, 08:39 AM
Greetings all,

I have recently purchased a `07 STS4 n* 1SP. I'm absolutely loving the car.

Earlier this week I attended a "work" event at the BMW Performance driving center. The morning was an info-mercial for a technology provider and the afternoon was driving a variety of BMW's around a variety of different tracks. An absolute thrill for a lead-footed driving enthusiast. We drove a 650, X6M, 550i, M3, Z4, 750 and a 135i. Then we were driven in the M5.

When shopping for a car I drove a variety luxury sport cars including; BMW 535, Audi A6, Mercedes S500, Buick Regal Turbo, Infinity G37, etc. My second choice in vehicles was the BMW, but after driving the STS I was sold. (That and being born in raised in Detroit, I couldn't bring myself to buy a foreign car.)

Having the opportunity to drive the STS for a couple of months in a variety of conditions. Then this opportunity to really hammer of few BMW's, I'm still happy about my decision. The 650 and the 750 were the most comparable in size, but (IMO) were only ho hum in performance. They both had decent acceleration, but neither braked or cornered particularly well. The M3 and 550 were most comparable in acceleration, with better braking and corning. But in all BMW's there is a much more confined cockpit designed to enhance the sport feeling.

Lastly, I have to say the ride in the M5 was a completely different feel. I assume you guys with the STS/CTS V's have that awesome feeling of 550+ horsepower. There was a big difference between the 550 and the M5. Now I understand what the extra $30K gets you.

All-in-all, it was a great day and I reaffirmed my opinion and purchase decision on the ride home. The STS has all performance and 2x the luxury of the higher priced BMW's.

BaTu
05-27-11, 11:06 AM
OH! Just wait until our local, argumentative, "Bund" member reads THIS!!! :rolleyes:

He's gonna freak-out on you :mad:

btw, I agree with you, I have a good friend working as a mechanic in a BMW Dealership (he's the go-to guy for their Many computer & electronic issues) and has weekly horror stories about the poor customers and what they pay in repairs of those, overpriced & under engineered P.O.S's :stirpot:

1BadCadSTS
05-27-11, 11:14 AM
whats a 1SP?

turnne
05-27-11, 11:23 AM
OH! Just wait until our local, argumentative, "Bund" member reads THIS!!! :rolleyes:

He's gonna freak-out on you :mad:

btw, I agree with you, I have a good friend working as a mechanic in a BMW Dealership (he's the go-to guy for their Many computer & electronic issues) and has weekly horror stories about the poor customers and what they pay in repairs of those, overpriced & under engineered P.O.S's :stirpot:

LOL...and here we go...more bad information....

Having owned two BMW's over the years ..I experienced none of those issues you mention

As I recall you mentioned something before about a 7 series and its problems that was completely incorrect

As I said before..I am not sure what BMW dealer you friend works at

But the two I dealt with over the years..Classic BMW Dallas Texas...who also happens to be the largest volume dealer in the country...and Midwestern Auto Group here locally

what dealer does your buddy work for?

Perhaps I can hook him up with Doug..my service adviser at Midwestern auto group, to offer him some more training..because this is the second time you have mentioned issues that are not true......well at least in my years of ownership and two different dealers in two states

Never saw any of that stuff

Having owned a couple of Caddy's as well( and a Northstar equipped Oldsmobile Aurora)...and dealt with a few dealers ..Frank Kent Cadillac-FW Texas and Germain Cadillac Ohio

what does your buddy thing about HG and electronic suspension issues?..

But anyway
Its a moot point any way

NO ONE is seriously cross shopping a BMW and a Cadillac
The resale alone drives many away...and has for years

Overpriced....?
I would say the market sets the value....I think if a company has to discount heavily or subsidize leases greatly, to move cars, that would say something
The market dictates what is overpriced. As a car dealer told me years ago...A car is worth what the market is willing to pay for it



You might consider comparing a Lincoln..are perhaps even a Lexus( excluding the LS)

But..the Germans are they own driving experience
More expensive option...absolutely
Whether its worth it depends on each one's taste( and wallet)

I have attended several of these same test drives
I came away with the exact opposite feeling...so lets call it subjectivity


Warren

chazglenn3
05-27-11, 11:25 AM
I was just going to say you should verify your option package...no such thing as a 1SP.

Greg00coupe
05-27-11, 09:57 PM
I love the 7 series especially the long version. BUT I have to agree with BaTu. First off the magazine rating for these cars are poor for what you spend for them. Here in Canton Oh not too far from you Warren the 2 local dealers struggle with getting these things fixed. A friend has a 3 series and the suspension struts rusted. Another had a 7 with the I drive and it was a nightmare. Some day I might give one a try. The newer ones are getting better reviews but the mid 00s 05 6 7 are not worth the risk.

ATL STS
05-27-11, 10:57 PM
First off, let me correct the option package, it is the 1SG - the Performance package.

Next, I'm not sure I said anything derogatory about the BMW's, other than my opinion about their performance and luxury feeling in comparison to vehicle I drive everyday. I think they are high end luxurious sport cars. Some models are larger and more luxurious and others are smaller and sportier.

Finally, yes the market does set the price on most things. That's why the 650's that started off priced in the $90K range are now listed in the $70K. Regardless, they are fine automobiles.

Jesda
05-28-11, 06:00 AM
BMW is trying to expand its audience and increase its global market share, upsetting BMW loyalists who appreciated the brand's focus and consistency. Automobile Mag (maybe C&D) recently said the 5-series was like a Mercedes, which was fine for people who like that sort of thing, but disappointing for people who approach a BMW-badged vehicle with higher expectations.

Expect BMW to become more of a plebian brand as the decade goes on.

Subsailor613
05-28-11, 09:22 PM
Thanks ATL STS for your opinion about the BMW, and the STS.
I appreciate your insight, and your comments,well written and
got to the point. I was wondering myself, although I probably
would "NEVER" buy a foreign car,as I am a Veteran.i.e. BUY AMERICAN !:stirpot:

Thanks:thumbsup::thumbsup:

turnne
06-11-11, 09:52 AM
I love the 7 series especially the long version. BUT I have to agree with BaTu. First off the magazine rating for these cars are poor for what you spend for them. Here in Canton Oh not too far from you Warren the 2 local dealers struggle with getting these things fixed. A friend has a 3 series and the suspension struts rusted. Another had a 7 with the I drive and it was a nightmare. Some day I might give one a try. The newer ones are getting better reviews but the mid 00s 05 6 7 are not worth the risk.


All autos have issues. The Cadillac dealers here are still doing HG's( or engine replacements) and fixing ISS suspensions on Cadillacs...in my market

Ask your Caddy dealer about that...
Honestly...for a luxury car if you want the least issues you still are the safest with a Lexus

My local Caddy dealer...who sells( and services) Mercedes, Cadillac and Lexus tells me the Lexus is the best of the three they have...for service related issues

I am not sure what you mean by "for what you spend on them"...in the full size ultra luxury market..you really have no choice...7 series ..S class..or go even higher end with a Bentley etc

I drive is not a big deal...complex yes
I picked it up in 15 mins
Those cars..the 7's are extremely complex and fixing them is not easy
They have systems that are cutting edge
Unfortunately..if you are in a smaller market..ie..not a luxury market where there are hundreds driving around..I would agree with you the dealers can have a hard time

Especially for those folks that are the first ones to buy the model in a small market

Unlike the mid luxury level( E class, 5 series, STS)..the ultra luxury class always has features that are completely unique and cutting edge


what feature did the STS bring to the market that was completely new in 2005?


Warren

turnne
06-11-11, 10:01 AM
First off, let me correct the option package, it is the 1SG - the Performance package.

Next, I'm not sure I said anything derogatory about the BMW's, other than my opinion about their performance and luxury feeling in comparison to vehicle I drive everyday. I think they are high end luxurious sport cars. Some models are larger and more luxurious and others are smaller and sportier.

Finally, yes the market does set the price on most things. That's why the 650's that started off priced in the $90K range are now listed in the $70K. Regardless, they are fine automobiles.

I find it interesting that you said you could not bring yourself to buy a foreign car

But you were test driving them...huh?

I find it interesting about the S500 you test drove...they have been S550's for quite a while
How old of a MB were you test driving?

That being said..I agree with you the market sets the price...thats why my $67,200 sticker STS( in 2005) was purchased 4 years later for 27% of sticker

The cars that you were test driving...the larger ones had features that were never available on the STS..Pneumatic door closing, upteen airbags, advanced safety and security systems

Besides that..honestly..amd I am speaking S class and & series models
Did you not notice a huge difference in the interior finish?...ie...tap of the door panels of your STS and do the same in the 7 series you test drove
did they feel anywhere close to the same to you?

Look at the quality of the interior wood....does that seem about the same to you?

Maybe I am missing something

I think the MB's are better finished than the BMW's...the BMW's have always been a little more spartan( and cheaper) than the MB's

That being said...the value that the market puts on the STS has been low for decades
I don't see how anyone could buy one of these new ...unless they planned to drive it forever...you simply lose too much value


Warren

turnne
06-11-11, 10:12 AM
BMW is trying to expand its audience and increase its global market share, upsetting BMW loyalists who appreciated the brand's focus and consistency. Automobile Mag (maybe C&D) recently said the 5-series was like a Mercedes, which was fine for people who like that sort of thing, but disappointing for people who approach a BMW-badged vehicle with higher expectations.

Expect BMW to become more of a plebian brand as the decade goes on.

That been going on for years...the Mercedes are more like BMW's than they used to be as well

Think about..their customer base is very similar in the US..and the US is their biggest market in the world

So...its natural that they are going to go after each other ..because a MB or BMW loyalist were likely to flip..it would be from one brand to the other


Honestly..as far as changing gears..I expect Cadillac to be come more plebian....look at the changes in the last 20 years. Everytime the body style of the STS changes its not an evolutionary change its a revolutionary change. You can't tell one body style to the next, in family resemblance. A factor that, I am sure, contributes to the low resale of these cars
Think about it...they have have gone from "broughams" to what they called a quasi FWD sport sedan( that was never really a balanced car) to something that they say can compete with the Germans

You look at a BMW or Benz of 20 years ago......and you can instantly tell what brand it is...heck they even drive similar to their older brethren

Of the two STS have owned...2002 and 2005....nothing was similar except the Cadillac name on it

I frankly think the CTS( and Escalade) have been propping up the division for several years

Cheap( subsidized) leases on STS's and the fleet( rental car) DTS market could not have been profitable for them

Thats why I said , IMO, they need to follow the direction of Lincoln....drop the money losers and fleet cars and make mid luxury 6 cylinders
Its looks like the direction they are going with this new XTS concept( as well as the other cars in their current line)

The Cadillac buyer today clearly doesn't care about a V8......look at the difference in the V8 and V6 resale.... its almost none

Check the difference in the MB and BMW 6 and 8 cylinder resale differences..it paints a different picture about what that buyer is willing to pay for


Warren

02603sec
08-15-11, 05:51 PM
I've had almost every brand. I like the STS because I get all the options including the V8 and I am parking it outside. I loose less money. No way would I park the more expensive cars outside.

valjan1
08-16-11, 10:58 PM
Ilive in Montréal Canada and i bought a1SG STS4 AWD 2005 in 2008.IT had 100,000 kilometers (61,000 miles) and i bought it in Boston,i paid 22,000$ . it has all the options exept hud and acc and lane change. i like this car now i have 276,000 kilometers , noisy valves lifters, burns oil like a furnace . the button for changing from metric to english doesnt work. driver's door
does open only with the key. sometimes the engine power cuts abruptly and i have to put it in neutral and shut it down and start is to correct the situation the trunk doesnt open when i try to open it manually from the outside.Magnetic suspension is not even sometimes it is like truck and other times it is like a cadillac should be.Voice recognition is s..it .Otherwise it runs great ,so far

Frikiton
08-18-11, 12:32 AM
I've had almost every brand. I like the STS because I get all the options including the V8 and I am parking it outside. I loose less money. No way would I park the more expensive cars outside.

Lucky you, they broke my driver window 2 weeks ago, I found 2 huge rocks inside the car (they couldn't break the glass though) being laminated .. But it sucks being that it was 1 minute walk from the precinct too.