: Would a Cadillac super car be bad for General Motors?



Lord Cadillac
05-09-11, 03:40 PM
If you're going to sell your most expensive car out of your entry level division, then what exactly is the point of your high end division? If Cadillac were to build a car that's faster than the Corvette and price it accordingly, would that hurt sales?

http://photo.netcarshow.com/Cadillac-Cien_Concept_2002_photo_10.jpg

ThumperPup
05-09-11, 03:42 PM
wow i want it

Submariner409
05-09-11, 03:59 PM
People buy Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Maserati - many low production supercars. It might just give Cadillac a leg up in the domestic pecking order. I would most definitely be interested in a no-holds-barred Cadillac offering in the $80,000 - $120,000 range. Chevrolet Division wold have a hissy fit. BUT, do it quickly - there's no denying that my reflexes are slowing, regardless of how much exercise and driving practice I do.

.................and NOT with copycat old Lamborghini doors - even the Italians finally saw the light..................

RippyPartsDept
05-09-11, 04:04 PM
wow i want it

almost ten years old, that design is still pretty hot!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Cien

... however I bet that Sal was using the photo just because there's nothing else to illustrate his thought - plus they teased us with it 10 years ago

ThumperPup
05-09-11, 04:15 PM
damm that's just not right

Stingroo
05-09-11, 05:46 PM
I honestly just can't see it. Maybe it's because I'm a Chevy fan boy. Maybe it's because my generation generally thinks of Cadillacs as old peopley. I just don't see a supercar bearing the wreath and crest going over very well.

A super-sedan? Sure. A true honest-to-goodness supercar? Not really.

Aron9000
05-09-11, 05:48 PM
People buy Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Maserati - many low production supercars. It might just give Cadillac a leg up in the domestic pecking order. I would most definitely be interested in a no-holds-barred Cadillac offering in the $80,000 - $120,000 range. Chevrolet Division wold have a hissy fit. BUT, do it quickly - there's no denying that my reflexes are slowing, regardless of how much exercise and driving practice I do.

.................and NOT with copycat old Lamborghini doors - even the Italians finally saw the light..................

Cadillac has tried that price bracket twice before, and failed. The XLR was a hell of a lot more car than the Allante though, I'll give it that. It just wasn't as nice inside as a Benz SL and that was its real undoing IMO.

Anyways, I think we are talking like $300,000 carbon fiber supercar here for Cadillac. Less than 5,000 cars for the whole production run. I would love to see a Ferrari beater from Cadillac, the angry wedge arts and science styling would look bad ass on a mid-engined supercar. I'd really like to see a radical departure from the LS based pushrod v8 as well, something that's DOCH and revs to 9k rpms.

ryannel2003
05-09-11, 06:20 PM
If GM actually had the balls to do it I think it would really show that Cadillac is serious about competing with Mercedes and BMW. But first I think they should focus on the redesigned CTS, the new XTS and the new ATS.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-09-11, 06:32 PM
Cadillac should try to shoot for this supercar market segment, and that means no Corvette redux. Something totally unique to Cadillac....mid engined, V/10-V/12....AWD perhaps....something meant to compete with the Murcielagos, not the Mercedes SL.

billc83
05-09-11, 06:41 PM
Both the Allante and XLR sold roughly 10,000 units during their respective runs. The production run for a Caddy supercar needs to be MUCH less than 5,000. 1,000 tops.

billc83
05-09-11, 06:44 PM
I honestly just can't see it. Maybe it's because I'm a Chevy fan boy. Maybe it's because my generation generally thinks of Cadillacs as old peopley. I just don't see a supercar bearing the wreath and crest going over very well.

A super-sedan? Sure. A true honest-to-goodness supercar? Not really.

And that's exactly the reason Cadillac should try something like this. Show the post-Pepsi generation they have the cojones to think outside of the box.

Sevillian273
05-09-11, 06:48 PM
No less than 16 cylinders. Period.

drewsdeville
05-09-11, 06:59 PM
And that's exactly the reason Cadillac should try something like this. Show the post-Pepsi generation they have the cojones to think outside of the box.

They could SHOW them, yes, but what about SELLING it to them?

While I don't think it would hurt, I don't think it would be beneficial at all. The public isn't THAT dumb. It doesn't matter if Cadillac makes a $300k supercar or not. When it comes to automotive research, there are far more resources available to consumers now than ever, and those resources are HEAVILY relied upon (TOO heavily, at times). The days are over where public perception can be swayed by a single product. If Cadillac made that supercar, I don't think it wouldn't change neither analysts nor the public's perception of the vehicles that Cadillac profits on - the ones that matter.

The solution is simple: offer better cars. If they succeed in doing that, perception and awareness will reflect that. A high end supercar that Cadillac's customer base can't afford doesn't make that bastard DTS or the rest of their lineup any more appealing, and it will not reflect on the many trusted published reviews and opinions.

Jesda
05-09-11, 07:16 PM
At this point, GM would probably halfass it.

billc83
05-09-11, 07:18 PM
1) The public is that dumb. Never underestimate the stupidity of the public.

2) How many concepts has Cadillac unvieled that haven't made it to production? Teasing the public by showing the Sixteen/Cien/Converj and then not following through? Granted, the Evoq and Imaj were made it to production (in drastically altered forms). What's the point in offering a concept with no attempt to produce?

A Cadillac supercar really is no different than the Dodge supercar - the Viper. Virtually no market research was done before the Viper was greenlit. A little number crunching showed that the program probably wouldn't lose money. The Viper, in turn, got people excited in the Dodge brand. And not just consumers; investors as well. (Just to cite sources: this is all from Bob Lutz's book)

It didn't hurt that Dodge had a new design theme (cab forward) and some hot products at the time; not unlike Cadillac does now (the DTS isn't officially halted the production run, but you and I both know the XTS is coming so I don't think your DTS comment is very relevant). Hopefully the XTS will be everything needed and more in a replacement for the STS/DTS. Halo cars don't have as much meaning as they used to, but neither do brands anymore. But the Viper helped stir up some excitement for the Dodge brand and Chrysler company, which it needed at the time.

drewsdeville
05-09-11, 07:32 PM
1) The public is that dumb. Never underestimate the stupidity of the public.

2) How many concepts has Cadillac unvieled that haven't made it to production? Teasing the public by showing the Sixteen/Cien/Converj and then not following through? Granted, the Evoq and Imaj were made it to production (in drastically altered forms). What's the point in offering a concept with no attempt to produce?

A Cadillac supercar really is no different than the Dodge supercar - the Viper. Virtually no market research was done before the Viper was greenlit. A little number crunching showed that the program probably wouldn't lose money. The Viper, in turn, got people excited in the Dodge brand. And not just consumers; investors as well. (Just to cite sources: this is all from Bob Lutz's book)

It didn't hurt that Dodge had a new design theme (cab forward) and some hot products at the time; not unlike Cadillac does now (the DTS isn't officially halted the production run, but you and I both know the XTS is coming so I don't think your DTS comment is very relevant). Hopefully the XTS will be everything needed and more in a replacement for the STS/DTS. Halo cars don't have as much meaning as they used to, but neither do brands anymore. But the Viper helped stir up some excitement for the Dodge brand and Chrysler company, which it needed at the time.

1) Good point
2)Average story of a concept, from ANY brand. Typically, concepts are NOT built with future plans for production. They are merely a presentation of the manufacturers capabilities and upcoming technology and design.
3) Dodge Viper? Corvette competition? What about the XLR? Cadillac already covers this segment, which is well below supercar territory.

Also, remember, Chrysler has been a financial wreck for decades, including during the Viper's lifespan. The Viper didn't save Chrysler's name. If any single product did at that time, it was the Neon or the Caravan...neither were high end supercars and neither owe anything to the Viper.

You did correctly use the word "hopefully" in the DTS/XTS writeup :thumbsup:

V-Eight
05-09-11, 07:45 PM
I'm glad to see that the Viper is coming back though.

billc83
05-09-11, 07:49 PM
Also, remember, Chrysler has been a financial wreck for decades, including during the Viper's lifespan. The Viper didn't do anything for Chrysler's name. If any single product did at that time, it was the Neon or the Ram...neither were high end supercars.

You did correctly use the word "hopefully" in the DTS/XTS writeup :thumbsup:

This was according to Lutz's book, but supposedly many potential investors would pony up cash after seeing the Viper pictures. Much moreso than beforehand, enough that he made a point of it. It's been a while since I read Guts, though.

I'm holding out hope that the ATS and XTS (despite its stupid moniker) will be the better product you were referring to in your first rebuttal. I'm counting the current-gen CTS, even though it's kind of in no man's land between the 3-Series in price and the 5-Series in size.

orconn
05-09-11, 08:35 PM
I would have no interest in another rendition of the XLR, or some other two seat exotic. Cadillac should make a really first class personal luxury car and make it worth the $150,000 to $200,000. price tag. Something that would really standout from the crowd. It has been a very long time since any American maker has produced an honest to goodness "Luxury" car. Cadillac needs to make a car that would put in the leagues with the best the world has to off. This type of car is never a money maker, but is needed to raise the stature of Cadillac back to truly world class. The fourth and fifth generation Sevilles were a great attempt achieving a very good personal luxury car. But today a great deal more in the way of refinement, quality materials and build quality are required to make a true luxury car. At $45,000-$50,000., almost twenty years ago, these cars were breaking ground not attempted since the 1950's with the Eldorado Brougham and the Continental Mark II. Today the $70,000 to $90,000. is province of the upper middle class buyer, Cadillac needs to produce a car that will suit the true upper income desire for uniqueness and unavailability to the mere salaried rich! Work with the "Sixteen" concept and bring out something to really wow the world, not some "exotic" toy for the new dot comers!

Jesda
05-10-11, 04:15 AM
Halo cars draw outside interest and give a brand the opporunity to show off its engineering muscle. A halo car for a luxury brand, however, has different goals.

GM already has supercar-level versions of the Corvette.

As for the Viper, the brakes, steering, and suspension trickled down to other Chrysler products including the Intrepid, the same way top-level features found in Cadillacs have slowly wandered into Chevrolets and Buicks. Chrysler had some of the best-handling family cars of the 90s. In a corporation the size of Chrysler, the technology in a high end car doesnt exist in a vacuum. There is a valid business case for it, but its hard for a layman to understand how the numbers work.

hueterm
05-10-11, 04:56 AM
Did the Ford GT hurt, help, or do nothing for Ford?

IF they did it right, sure, it would be awesome. Gov't Motors, however, is pretty well known for botching it.

They need to develop a worthy replacement for the N* for their $50-60,000 cars...and they need to put it in a better replacement for the DTS than the XTS/FTS/whateverthef-TS.

And THEN they need to get a "flagship" large sedan/coupe/vert done. They haven't successfully sold an $80-100,000 car (STS-V/XLR/XLR-V or inflation adjusted Allante).

All of that needs to happen before they start dicking around in the Ferrari/Lamborghini/Bentley/RR pool.

How idiotic would that be? Oh, here's my line of "economy" cars (ATS/CTS/SRX), my Buick rehash (XTS), my big ass trucks (Escalades) -- and for you 50 buyers out there, a $300,000 supercar.

OffThaHorseCEO
05-10-11, 10:58 AM
If any single product did at that time, it was the Neon or the Caravan...neither were high end supercars and neither owe anything to the Viper.

Thats actually the goal of a Halo car or super car. Get people excited about the brand and into showrooms, where most will end up buying neons and caravans

DouglasJRizzo
05-10-11, 12:02 PM
The problem is that Chevrolet has a "lock" on the super performance stuff at GM. They hold it because even though they are the entry level division, they are the volume sales and profit division and they usually get what they want when it comes to boardroom bickering at GM. When Pontiac dabbled with the Fiero in the 80s, Chevrolet was FURIOUS that it was doing that and constantly brought GM upper management to bear down on Pontiac, forcing them to make the Fiero a half baked, watered down vehicle. By the time Pontiac got it "somewhat" right, 4 years after introduction, the car was toast.

If Cadillac had a proprietary V-8 that it wasn't sharing with other divisions, that made more horses than the current Chevy V-8's you'd hear the scream nationwide. The great GM badge engineering efforts of the 80s and 90s benefited Chevy above every other division, and they are not about to give that up without a fight.

If GM doesn't make Cadillac the Diamond that it used to be, eventually it will be down to two divisions, Chevy and Cadillac, and Cadillac will be mostly a retired folks car. Not good.

Stoneage_Caddy
05-11-11, 12:29 PM
Problem with a six figure caddy is caddy isnt the same caddy that could have pulled it off in the 20s , back then they were right there with rolls, pierce and duesenberg

the day caddy had to share platforms and parts with a chevy was they day that went out the window ....

then again bently does pertty well sharing bolts with a vw golf ...

so maybe...but a hyper car ? markets alredy got too damed many with koingsegg, pagani , ferarri and lambo .
why not go somewhere no one is .....the 1930s ....an all alumium and carbon fiber 1935 cadillac closed car , with modern bits buried deep inside powered by a twin turbo 3 liter v16 for the front wheels and a chevy volt hybrid power train for the rears. and all the creature conforts of climate controll and such ...

OffThaHorseCEO
05-11-11, 12:33 PM
http://www.careee.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Morgan-Aero-Retro-1-VI6X3DD7YX-1024x768.jpg

like this but cadillac-ish...not a bad idea

OffThaHorseCEO
05-11-11, 12:36 PM
NOT this though :vomit:
http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2010/05/08/godfather-creations-2008-cadillac-xlr_LrXkR_3868.jpg

Stingroo
05-11-11, 12:40 PM
I kinda dig it.

Sevillian273
05-11-11, 12:46 PM
I'd grow a handlebar mustache just so I could rock that out.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m280/merc892003/brilliant.jpg

Stoneage_Caddy
05-11-11, 12:47 PM
NOT this though :vomit:
http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2010/05/08/godfather-creations-2008-cadillac-xlr_LrXkR_3868.jpg

i must rescue that poor car and put it back to the way it was ...damned corvillac abusers

Lord Cadillac
05-11-11, 01:26 PM
The Corvette has been hindering the success of other GM vehicles in "better" divisions for a long time.. The Buick Grand National was very short lived.. The Cadillac XLR was very short lived.. I wonder what else was planned that had to be choked down on the account of the Corvette - a car sold out of GMs economy brand. Any car that can "one up" (or even be on par) with the Corvette is doomed from the beginning (as we have seen).

Is it really okay with all of us that the fastest, most powerful and most expensive automobile that General Motors sells is not sold out of the brand that's supposed to make the best vehicles that they make? Is GM even PROUD that the Corvette is a "Chevy"? Can you even FIND the Chevy badge on a Corvette?!

http://www.cadillacforums.com/images/corvette1.jpg

http://www.cadillacforums.com/images/corvette2.jpg

http://www.cadillacforums.com/images/corvette3.jpg

http://www.cadillacforums.com/images/corvette4.jpg

OffThaHorseCEO
05-11-11, 01:28 PM
invalid attachment

i agree that its pretty messed up that the budget brand gets the most expensive car

Lord Cadillac
05-11-11, 01:36 PM
Check now...


invalid attachment

i agree that its pretty messed up that the budget brand gets the most expensive car

Stingroo
05-11-11, 01:44 PM
Love the orange. :)

OffThaHorseCEO
05-11-11, 01:47 PM
got it, that ridonculous but not rare. mercury cougars have cougar badging dodge vipers have viper badging

Lord Cadillac
05-11-11, 01:52 PM
</rant>

Stingroo
05-11-11, 01:55 PM
I think you're a little crazy, Sal.

I really don't see why Cadillac should make an uber-performer. Not every car company needs one. Cadillac is a division of GM. BMW is not a division of something else, neither is Mercedes, and neither is Audi (well, sort of, but they also have Lamborghini so they're sort of an exception to the rule). GM's best interest is looking after the whole company, not just Cadillac. So the Corvette remains king, no matter who sells it, because it sells the most.

For what it's worth, outside the United States, Corvette is its own brand. No matter what we want, at the end of the day it's just business

Lord Cadillac
05-11-11, 02:19 PM
Eh. I think the XLR would have been a success if it weren't hindered by the Corvette.. Another thing that crosses my mind as more and more top luxury divisions are building halo cars, Cadillac will always be at a disadvantage because of the Corvette.. Just speaking my mind.. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jesda
05-11-11, 02:27 PM
Indeed, Sting. Cadillac and Corvette are typically sold under one roof as "Cadillac and Corvette", while Chevrolet dealers sell Daewoos and Opels.

OffThaHorseCEO
05-11-11, 02:28 PM
i agree though. they can never truly compete with higher classes because that would mean outdoing the corvette

Stingroo
05-11-11, 02:38 PM
Eh. I think the XLR would have been a success if it weren't hindered by the Corvette.. Another thing that crosses my mind as more and more top luxury divisions are building halo cars, Cadillac will always be at a disadvantage because of the Corvette.. Just speaking my mind.. Nothing more, nothing less.


Here's my thing with that:

1. The XLR was discontinued due to poor sales. This is obvious, because it was overpriced and underpowered.

2. It was underpowered. Everyone said it needed more power, but if GM would have put an LS2/6 everyone would have cried badge engineering and said it's nothing more than an expensive Corvette.


People are never happy.

OffThaHorseCEO
05-11-11, 02:41 PM
but if cadillac was allowed to design its own engine making more power than a corvette powerplant we wouldnt have the badge engineering criticism AND it wouldnt be underpowered.

as it is the most powerful gm cars that arent corvettes end up being known as having "corvette motors" in them due to having a variant of the corvette powerplant installed.

and were conditioned to think that way now...want to make a car more powerful? throw an ls engine into it

Stingroo
05-11-11, 02:48 PM
It's not how we're conditioned to think, it's how it is. Those are GM's corporate V8s. I'm all for having different engines for the different brands, but there will always be criticism for it. Plus right now I really don't think GM has the spare cash to fund R&D for a whole new line of motors (other than what they've already done for the Gen V motors).

drewsdeville
05-11-11, 03:09 PM
At the time, the LS2/6 weren't making any more hp than the 443 horse N* in the XLR anyway. It wouldn't have solved anything.

For the CTS-V and lower end cars, I think the impressive Chevrolet engines are just fine. But if you want to dip into supercar territory, they just won't cut it, no matter how well they perform. A supercar thrives on being the finest example of technology and design the company has to offer. The LS engines are far from that, they have NO place in this category.

A couple hundred thousand dollars for pushrods? 16 valves? 8 cylinders? What is this, 1945? :P

77CDV
05-11-11, 03:11 PM
Does Cadillac need a supercar like what's in the OP? No. Does Cadillac need a legitimate S/7/A8 competitor? Yes. Would I be over the moon about a properly done Maybach/RR competitor from Cadillac as a true "halo car" befitting the marque? Hell yes!

Do I think any of this will come to pass? Hell no.

OffThaHorseCEO
05-11-11, 03:22 PM
would any of us be able to afford it?

probably only tumperpup

hueterm
05-11-11, 04:56 PM
At the time, the LS2/6 weren't making any more hp than the 443 horse N* in the XLR anyway. It wouldn't have solved anything.

For the CTS-V and lower end cars, I think the impressive Chevrolet engines are just fine. But if you want to dip into supercar territory, they just won't cut it, no matter how well they perform. A supercar thrives on being the finest example of technology and design the company has to offer. The LS engines are far from that, they have NO place in this category.

A couple hundred thousand dollars for pushrods? 16 valves? 8 cylinders? What is this, 1945? :P



That brilliant flash of light on the horizon, followed by that rumbling noise, was the universe splitting itself apart -- since Drew and I agree...

orconn
05-11-11, 05:00 PM
That brilliant flash of light on the horizon, followed by that rumbling noise, was the universe splitting itself apart -- since Drew and I agree...

Some say fusion is more spectacular!

gary88
05-11-11, 05:07 PM
The Corvette has a long history and a proven racing record, I think it's best that GM devotes resources there when it comes to high performance.

I mean the CTS-V already hits 60 in under four seconds and tops out at what, 191mph? Is that not good enough for most people?

Stingroo
05-11-11, 06:21 PM
^ This is exactly what I'm saying.


But apparently the Corvette is bad because it's at icky common-people Chevrolet.

gothicaleigh
05-11-11, 06:21 PM
I think the ZR1 allows for some truly high performance vehicles without risk of dethroning the Corvette as the best performer.

They could have used the then top of the line LS engine in the XLR-V and it's additional weight would have kept it's performance numbers beneath the Corvette Z06 of the time. I think the real reason that they instead sourced the supercharged Northstar was to better differentiate it from the 'Vette. People weren't going to pay $100k+ ($30k more than the Z06) for what was basically a 'Vette with a folding hard top.
Now that the ZR1 commands $100k itself, they could produce a $100k+ XLR-V with the LS9, a great interior and a power folding hard top (the weight of which would still gaurantee that it would not quite dethrone the ZR1) and be able to go AMG hunting.

Stingroo
05-11-11, 06:24 PM
But it'll have an icky common people motor! OH NOES!


Cadillac people are a finicky bunch.

OffThaHorseCEO
05-11-11, 06:28 PM
yes, yes we are

Sevillian273
05-11-11, 06:34 PM
That brilliant flash of light on the horizon, followed by that rumbling noise, was the universe splitting itself apart -- since Drew and I agree...

OH NO I think its headed this way! :holycrap:













Nope, just a fart. Whew.

gothicaleigh
05-11-11, 07:01 PM
But it'll have an icky common people motor! OH NOES!
Cadillac people are a finicky bunch.

When the only other car that shares your engine is a $100,000 ZR1 that outperforms all but the most exclusive of supercars, I don't think you get to describe it as a "common people motor". :gothiraspberry:


A couple hundred thousand dollars for pushrods? 16 valves? 8 cylinders?

A 32 valve OHV Northstar that can be had by any kid that can get a $4k bank loan... that is a "common people motor".

A pushrod LS9 is very uncommon and an engineering marvel. The LS series is typically lighter, has a smaller footprint, and a lower center of gravity than many "more refined" overhead cam engines of smaller displacement and lesser power output.

Dismissing it because it's an OHV design is a similar argument to claiming that hp per liter is a gauge of how good an engine is. In the real world what matters is output versus size and weight, and the LS is almost unparalleled in this respect.

drewsdeville
05-11-11, 07:41 PM
When the only other car that shares your engine is a $100,000 ZR1 that outperforms all but the most exclusive of supercars, I don't think you get to describe it as a "common people motor". :gothiraspberry:



A 32 valve OHV Northstar that can be had by any kid that can get a $4k bank loan... that is a "common people motor".

A pushrod LS9 is very uncommon and an engineering marvel. The LS series is typically lighter, has a smaller footprint, and a lower center of gravity than many "more refined" overhead cam engines of smaller displacement and lesser power output.

Dismissing it because it's an OHV design is a similar argument to claiming that hp per liter is a gauge of how good an engine is. In the real world what matters is output versus size and weight, and the LS is almost unparalleled in this respect.

Could you support that with an example? Now don't go comparing the LS series to the Ford modulars or something like that...we are talking SUPERCARS here. Supercars are NOT the "real world". In the real world, output vs size and weight is enough to be impressive, as you mention. Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Consumer Reports, and Fitness Magazine love to talk about that. However, it takes much more in the supercar world. Lamborghini's new 6.5 V12 is a marvel of engineering and advanced technology. It's loaded with impressive multi-system cooling design that offers precise control, a block sealed off in sections with a set of scavenge pumps to lower frictional losses, valving in the intake to precisely tune air flow after it's many throttle bodies, and it revs to the moon.

The LS series is a marvel of engineering but NOT advanced technology. It's a relatively standard and basic engine design that uses quality internals and puts out decent power on boost. It gets the job done, in the real world. Nothing more. Supercar owners don't get their jollies off of a basic engine design. They pay much more to get away from that.

Stoneage_Caddy
05-12-11, 08:17 AM
Remember also corvette has been hindered by GM over the years , looking back:

by 1995 the corvette was supposed to be mid engine , AWD, the base motor was to be a 3.5 liter 2 stroke v6, and the top line car was to have a 32valve zr1 engine with a turbo ...

Before that it was to be mid engine with a rotary engine

before that it was supposed to get a mid engine big block with a powerglide tranny mounted on the front of the crankshaft and the rear of the crankshaft for AWD

before that it was supposed to get a v8

coarse Cadillac was also supposed to keep building and upgrading the fleetwood eldorados of the 50s too ... memory seats by 1957? too bad they didnt keep at it .....

Remember chevrolet is named for a man who won the indy 500. coarse ol louis didnt care much for selling to common folk and left as soon as he found out what his brother had been up to changing his company from a rolls royce compeitor to a ford fighter while louis was away on business

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-12-11, 08:26 AM
Ahhh it's good to have you back Mike. :)

Stoneage_Caddy
05-12-11, 08:32 AM
nice to be back

JimmyH
05-12-11, 02:13 PM
Love the orange. :)

lulz


Eh. I think the XLR would have been a success if it weren't hindered by the Corvette..

The XLR was discontinued due to poor sales.
XLR was too expensive for what it was. That simple. otoh, the XLR-Vs are now in the $30k range, which is a bargain.



At the time, the LS2/6 weren't making any more hp than the 443 horse N* in the XLR anyway.

^supercharged. Don't forget there is still a large segment of performance enthusiasts who don't want anything to do with FI. Go ask the V2 guys about heat soak.


A pushrod LS9 is very uncommon and an engineering marvel...

Wow. I agree with you about something car-related. The LS9 is powerful and cost effective. And hp adders are relatively cheap.



by 1995 the corvette was supposed to be mid engine

they have been saying that since the C4. It will probably happen eventually. But "sources" say not the C7. Probably not even the C8.

I say if GM wants a mid-engined supercar, put it under the Caddy umbrella, not corvette.

Lord Cadillac
05-12-11, 02:46 PM
I say if GM wants a mid-engined supercar, put it under the Caddy umbrella, not corvette.

That would make me happy - and plenty of others.

gdwriter
05-12-11, 03:58 PM
I would much rather see GM concentrate its resources on building a flagship Cadillac that's a credible competitor to the S-Class, 7-Series, A8 and LS. There's much more sales volume and profit to be made there than in some low-volume supercar. Plus, it gives current CTS drivers a place to move up. You can be sure there are S-Class and 7-Series drivers who started out in C-Class and 3-Series.

Chevrolet may be GM's entry-level division, but the democratization of luxury features like leather interiors and automatic climate control — both available on the Cruze — means you can get a pretty nice Chevy. And truth be told, Chevrolet has long had aspirations to bring more luxury to middle-class America. It started with the Bel Air in 1950, upgraded to the Impala in 1958 — which from the front is a dead-ringer for the '58 Cadillac — then onto the Caprice in 1965. I don't see a problem with that.

I also think the Corvette should remain GM's performance flagship. It's brand identity really is as a Corvette, not a Chevrolet. I think the halo effect of the Corvette extends to all GM brands, not just Chevrolet. It shows the world GM really can build a world-class product. OK, the interior could use some work, but the performance is still amazing.