: all gas isn't good gas...



Domsz06
05-06-11, 05:14 PM
Well Mike just called me and he is tuning my car as we speak. I had just filled up with Phillps 66 gas, and yes it was 93 Josh, and he can't place anymore then 14 degrees timing in it without it knocking. Only worth 515 rwhp.

So for what it's worth, better watch out on gas stations apprently. Sucks I know. What does everyone else do?

CTSV4now
05-06-11, 05:16 PM
Only Exxon 93 for me, but I have no proof its good all the time.

Damn, I was wrong I use Chevron 93 (with techron)

Domsz06
05-06-11, 05:18 PM
Only Exxon 93 for me, but I have no proof its good all the time.

Yeah Mike said he only uses Shell 93 v power.... Ugh I hate thinking I'm gonna have to start watching where I fill up and montitoring my gas gauge. I just always filll up at the nearest name brand..... oh well. guess it's good there are a few shells near me.

Ross L
05-06-11, 05:18 PM
Whats a person to do when they cant trust that little label on the gas pump? Is there a *octane test kit* or something???

serturbo
05-06-11, 05:21 PM
I've only used Shell V power also in all my most recent cars. If I really need gas and Shell isn't nearby, I use Chevron.

PhxTriode
05-06-11, 05:21 PM
I have the same problem here I can get 3 degrees more timing in mine using a Shell station way out of the way. I will say 14 seems really low with 93. I can get 18 with bad 91 octane and 105+ IAT2's so it may just be a bad tank of gas. I have noticed that with bad fuel or low octane (91) my car responds better running it rich up top (11.0 AFR from 5000rpm up) and stuff more timing in it (+3-4*).

PhxTriode
05-06-11, 05:22 PM
Whats a person to do when they cant trust that little label on the gas pump? Is there a *octane test kit* or something???

Buy an octane adder like Torco thats the only thing to ensure you have the octane to support your timing. Dont freak out when you pull your plugs the first time... They will be burnt orange lol

shade
05-06-11, 05:23 PM
It may be getting too hot due to the intercooler not cooling(increasing knock)..I had a similar situation and it was because there was air in the intercooler loop.
Just an idea

Domsz06
05-06-11, 05:26 PM
It may be getting too hot due to the intercooler not cooling(increasing knock)..I had a similar situation and it was because there was air in the intercooler loop.
Just an idea

Thanks Shade,

I would think he drained the air out... He's pretty good at his job. and he has a 10 sec v as well

Ross L
05-06-11, 05:26 PM
Does the Torco really work? I've talked to some that swear in it. I just cant understand how ANY small bottle of whatever(even if it's literally 200 octane) can significantly increase the octane of 15 gallons of gas. Willing to try it though.
Ross

Titaniumseeker
05-06-11, 05:27 PM
At one time, Shell 93 was all that I used until a month ago when I got some bad gas and it was consistant with multiple Shell stations in my area. I am now using Sunoco without issues here and when I travel.

Domsz06
05-06-11, 05:30 PM
Mike was actually happy he saw this. Apprently he has had issues he thinks with the gas where I filled up. Now he just confirmed it. I was at 280 miles on the tank and I stoopped by to fill up so he had a full tank to tune it with. (sucks I just spent 80 bucks lol but oh well)

So he is draining it and gonna run to shell. Will get my car back monday :( but at least it will be a solid tune :)

gnxs
05-06-11, 05:38 PM
Does the Torco really work? I've talked to some that swear in it. I just cant understand how ANY small bottle of whatever(even if it's literally 200 octane) can significantly increase the octane of 15 gallons of gas. Willing to try it though.
Ross
Yes it does.

LitiGATOR
05-06-11, 05:43 PM
My tuner swears by Mobil

cbloveday
05-06-11, 05:49 PM
I use the Shell V as well.

All I know is that it is supposed to be top tier gas. FWIW

My plugs are orange from the race gas I run.

PhxTriode
05-06-11, 05:54 PM
So orange is the color to have then :-)

The torco does work

Glad he is draining the tank and trying something different. Most tuners wouldn't go the extra mile they would just say oh well. Hats off Mike

DrumStix
05-06-11, 06:23 PM
I have the same problem here I can get 3 degrees more timing in mine using a Shell station way out of the way. I will say 14 seems really low with 93. I can get 18 with bad 91 octane and 105+ IAT2's so it may just be a bad tank of gas. I have noticed that with bad fuel or low octane (91) my car responds better running it rich up top (11.0 AFR from 5000rpm up) and stuff more timing in it (+3-4*).

Prolly some false KR in there.

Me Wanna A V
05-06-11, 07:38 PM
Back in my Mustang days, I knew several "tuners" back in Florida who always told me to stay away from Shell as it couldn't handle any timing.

BP Amoco and Mobil were the two that were always recommended.

PhxTriode
05-06-11, 08:00 PM
Prolly some false KR in there.

Have my burst knock dialed back, may need somemore.

Mike TexaSS
05-06-11, 08:17 PM
It was bad gas. We drained all the fuel and it was dark and smelled like lawnmower gas. I made a pull before I left on the low timing tune and it dynoed 525 rwhp and 548 rwtq. On only 14 deg...lol

I will have it finished up on monday!


Good fuel is very important on a supercharged car (duh)! I only use Shell V Power. Its a good idea to buy fuel from new gas stations in high volume areas. That way you know the fuel is fresh and not months and months old! (the phillips 66 by my shop)

Bushidopupil
05-06-11, 08:21 PM
Buy an octane adder like Torco thats the only thing to ensure you have the octane to support your timing. Dont freak out when you pull your plugs the first time... They will be burnt orange lol

Also, if you run enough Torco, which does work, you will have orange tailpipes also....don't ask how I know lol.

neuronbob
05-06-11, 09:06 PM
I only use Shell V Power as well, in town and when I travel.

Razorecko
05-06-11, 09:29 PM
Shell V power all the way. I'll do BP 93 when shell isn't around but I find that the odds of getting a bad tank of gas with bp is higher than with shell... How pissed off does it get you when you're getting $$$ raped for premium 93 and it runs like a crappy 91. They need to start doing some kind of federal/state random testing to verify octane levels. I mean these companies could really make a killing selling you 91 masked as premium

Mike TexaSS
05-06-11, 09:54 PM
Not only was it crappy 93 gas.... It was 4.29 a gallon!

RapidRob
05-06-11, 11:13 PM
I mean these companies could really make a killing selling you 91 masked as premium

Hello! - They're making a, "killing", profit-wise anyway, every time they run the prices up like they are now. Seems like it's happening more frequently lately - they must like it, a lot ... :annoyed::nono:

hulksdaddy
05-06-11, 11:28 PM
I'll tell ya, you want some bad gas, shoulda had that burrito I had tonight.....:nono::farting:

Ross L
05-06-11, 11:38 PM
Torco's nearly $1 an ounce( buying it in 8oz bottles). They recommend 64oz added to 10 gallons of 93 to make 107 octane! Soooo 10 gallons of 93 is roughly $40 bucks plus $64 for the torco = $104 dollars for 10 gallons. I know, no one said it was cheap, only that it works ;). Maybe I'll try it in lower concentrations for some nice 97octane.

baabootoo
05-07-11, 12:19 AM
I know a guy....whose wife works at a BP station as the manager. He knows exactly when they get fresh gas in. I only get my 93 there when I want the HP.

Vapordoc
05-07-11, 09:52 AM
For all out power, my favorite is Mobil. Chevron seems the worst, with Shell somewhere in the middle.

DrumStix
05-07-11, 10:20 AM
I had bad gas once as well but that was from a burrito.

JFJr
05-07-11, 11:38 AM
The top tier brands should be the first criteria and after that, choose your favorite among them. Check out this site: http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Jud

RippyPartsDept
05-07-11, 12:25 PM
:yeah: http://www.toptiergas.com/

that said... bad gas does happen... nothing you can really do about that, but sticking to top tier brands 'should' give you the best odds at not hitting a patch of bad gas

shade
05-07-11, 12:36 PM
For people on the fence about torco, like others have said it works great.
Personally I dont think you need to use a whole can per fill up. I think with AZ's 91 and a half can with a fill up it brings it up to about 93-94.
Torco is also made here in Phoenix, I swung by their facility and picked up a case. Its actually cheaper on their ebay site
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Best-Fuel-Additive-Octane-Booster-Torco-Accelerator-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c5a5b1da6QQitemZ19049 4481830QQptZRaceQ5fCarQ5fParts

$105 for a case of six with free shipping

Using half a can at fill up for me will be a case a month. Sucks we have to go this route in AZ with no 93 around.

PhxTriode
05-07-11, 01:36 PM
It was bad gas. We drained all the fuel and it was dark and smelled like lawnmower gas. I made a pull before I left on the low timing tune and it dynoed 525 rwhp and 548 rwtq. On only 14 deg...lol

I will have it finished up on monday!


Good fuel is very important on a supercharged car (duh)! I only use Shell V Power. Its a good idea to buy fuel from new gas stations in high volume areas. That way you know the fuel is fresh and not months and months old! (the phillips 66 by my shop)

Seeing the torque higher than the HP tells me there is alot more in her with timing. Nice numbers with 14*

Hang on she's gonna fly come Monday :-)

Vapordoc
05-07-11, 03:31 PM
Some gas companies put additives in their fuel to help the "clean" the injectors, etc. Those detergents can create pre-knock, causing the ecu to pull timing, and produce less power.

At least that is my theory. That is why I use Mobil instead of the other top tier brands.

tabio42
05-07-11, 04:47 PM
Oh lordy. This whole gas thing makes driving even more unnerving. We have one nozzle per pump in the majority of the stations in socal. I always check the price/gallons on the display and only use a pump that previously pumped 91 (highest oct in PRK). I don't want a hose full of 87 in my tank.

That being said, as far as seat of the pants goes-i feel Shell is doing better on the power. It also gets the highest cruising mileage. This is surprising to me because it has ethanol in it, and ethanol has low thermal efficiency. Unocal76 seems to be garbage. I stopped using Mobil because of the poor mileage but never really gave it a chance for performance.

FWIW...

JimmyH
05-07-11, 07:41 PM
It's been a long time since I have seen a station that had separate nozzles for each grade.

GMX322V S/C
05-07-11, 09:51 PM
Hello! - They're making a, "killing", profit-wise anyway, every time they run the prices up like they are now. Seems like it's happening more frequently lately - they must like it, a lot ... :annoyed::nono:

It's actually speculative pricing--just like wheat and pork bellies. Go figure.

thebigjimsho
05-07-11, 09:52 PM
We have a ton of multiple nozzles around here. But you, Jimmeh, are the biggest singular nozzle...

thebigjimsho
05-07-11, 09:53 PM
I had bad gas once as well but that was from a burrito.
Refried beans with your rehashed joek?

Domsz06
05-08-11, 08:54 AM
Seeing the torque higher than the HP tells me there is alot more in her with timing. Nice numbers with 14*

Hang on she's gonna fly come Monday :-)


he he he I can't wait! ;)

Domsz06
05-08-11, 08:56 AM
So orange is the color to have then :-)

The torco does work

Glad he is draining the tank and trying something different. Most tuners wouldn't go the extra mile they would just say oh well. Hats off Mike

Mike is a solid guy. Does good work and his guys that work for him do the same.


It was bad gas. We drained all the fuel and it was dark and smelled like lawnmower gas. I made a pull before I left on the low timing tune and it dynoed 525 rwhp and 548 rwtq. On only 14 deg...lol

I will have it finished up on monday!


Good fuel is very important on a supercharged car (duh)! I only use Shell V Power. Its a good idea to buy fuel from new gas stations in high volume areas. That way you know the fuel is fresh and not months and months old! (the phillips 66 by my shop)

Yeah good idea, now I know when I come visit you to NOT get it from the 66



Not only was it crappy 93 gas.... It was 4.29 a gallon!

:(

PhxTriode
05-08-11, 11:48 AM
For people on the fence about torco, like others have said it works great.
Personally I dont think you need to use a whole can per fill up. I think with AZ's 91 and a half can with a fill up it brings it up to about 93-94.
Torco is also made here in Phoenix, I swung by their facility and picked up a case. Its actually cheaper on their ebay site
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Best-Fuel-Additive-Octane-Booster-Torco-Accelerator-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c5a5b1da6QQitemZ19049 4481830QQptZRaceQ5fCarQ5fParts

$105 for a case of six with free shipping

Using half a can at fill up for me will be a case a month. Sucks we have to go this route in AZ with no 93 around.

Shade, I just tried the Lucas octane booster yesterday and retuned for it. Was able to get 21* in her even with the heat yesterday (129* IAT2's) @11.4afr to keep her happy in the heat. I need a little more timing at tip in around 80mph but she is good to go. $9.00

Mike TexaSS
05-08-11, 02:26 PM
PHX how much boost you running?

shade
05-08-11, 05:57 PM
Shade, I just tried the Lucas octane booster yesterday and retuned for it. Was able to get 21* in her even with the heat yesterday (129* IAT2's) @11.4afr to keep her happy in the heat. I need a little more timing at tip in around 80mph but she is good to go. $9.00

Interesting so you went from 11.0 ish back to 11.4 with that high timing amount. Think you picked up any power?
Whats the Lucas kick a full tank of 91 up to?

PhxTriode
05-09-11, 03:45 PM
PHX how much boost you running?

12.33psi (9.5" lower and headers) yesterday (MAP-BARO) @ 1800' and 129* IAT2's

PhxTriode
05-09-11, 03:47 PM
Interesting so you went from 11.0 ish back to 11.4 with that high timing amount. Think you picked up any power?
Whats the Lucas kick a full tank of 91 up to?

Thinking maybe 580rwhp 3rd gear comes and goes really fast now :-)

I will look at the bottle and see how much octane it adds for a full tank.

mannyz
07-20-11, 09:40 AM
I have been adding that little orange STP bottle every weekend when I go out to play to a tank of 98 RON (92-93 octane?) Is that stuff safe to use on your vehicle? I hear it kills your injectors if used frequently. I use it about every other gas tank or so.

JFJr
07-20-11, 09:48 AM
I stick to the "top tier" brands which for me are usually Shell and Chevron, in that order. I'm not into mods, but my car runs strong with these brands.

Mike TexaSS
07-20-11, 09:49 AM
Torrco octane booster or nothing!

smackdownCTSV
07-20-11, 10:17 AM
Actually, you should go with Mobil or BP. Sunoco and Shell apparently are junk that cause knocking.

PGA2B
07-20-11, 10:41 AM
Anyone ever play with Xylene??:lildevil:

I use to use Xylene when I had my Grand Prix 99 GTP (Check my Car Domain Page for the Mod List). Since it is R+M/2...117 it made a good additive for a Homebrew Race Gas. If you do a search for Homebrew Race Gas you will find lots of info on it. I would get a 5 gal bucket at the local paint store (It was cheap back then) and mix it with Marvels Mystery Oil to keep it from harming the seals.

:hide:
We have 93 at the pump from BP here and I used 3 gal of gas to 2 gal of Xylene to give me about 102.6 Octane. I ran a MUCH Stronger mix than was recommended but never had any issues but that is NOT to say I would recommend that mixture to anyone else. I didn't like the residue the Torrco left on my plugs.

I Still only use BP 93.

smackdownCTSV
07-20-11, 11:07 AM
You're coming from a GTP too? Did yours blow up from the recall as well?

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3708/daytonav.jpg

PGA2B
07-20-11, 11:34 AM
You're coming from a GTP too? Did yours blow up from the recall as well?

I lost my GTP to a roll over in 2004. Then had a Lincoln LS and missed the WHINE!! Now have the V. There are a lot of former GTP owners that migrated to V's especially STS-V's. There are several of us that have made the switch.

I was PGA2B_2004 on the Club GP site.

M5eater
07-20-11, 12:33 PM
Shell V power all the way. I'll do BP 93 when shell isn't around but I find that the odds of getting a bad tank of gas with bp is higher than with shell... How pissed off does it get you when you're getting $$$ raped for premium 93 and it runs like a crappy 91. They need to start doing some kind of federal/state random testing to verify octane levels. I mean these companies could really make a killing selling you 91 masked as premium
The acutal costs to buy higher octanes is acutally only a few pennies more than 87. When I worked as a retail manager with a gas station, we made an average 4-6cents/gal on 87, and 21-26cents/gal on 93(which is typically the retail cost difference between the two). the cost to purchase the fuel was only ~ 3-5 cents more for 93. Convience stores don't live off gas, it's a lure to get you into the store and buy the candy and drinks that are marked up 20% or more.

smackdownCTSV
07-20-11, 01:07 PM
I lost my GTP to a roll over in 2004. Then had a Lincoln LS and missed the WHINE!! Now have the V. There are a lot of former GTP owners that migrated to V's especially STS-V's. There are several of us that have made the switch.

I was PGA2B_2004 on the Club GP site.

I still have GTP parts like the Wizaird CAI and DHP PCM. I don't remember my old name, so I made a new one, but it hasn't been activated. Still waiting 3 months later, no response to emails either. WTF?

smackdownCTSV
07-20-11, 01:09 PM
The acutal costs to buy higher octanes is acutally only a few pennies more than 87. When I worked as a retail manager with a gas station, we made an average 4-6cents/gal on 87, and 21-26cents/gal on 93(which is typically the retail cost difference between the two). the cost to purchase the fuel was only ~ 3-5 cents more for 93. Convience stores don't live off gas, it's a lure to get you into the store and buy the candy and drinks that are marked up 20% or more.

A quarter a gallon on 93 octane? Wow!

PGA2B
07-20-11, 01:27 PM
A quarter a gallon on 93 octane? Wow!
They use to have it where it was 10 cent more each grade up here in KC. Now it is 32 cents to go from 87 to 93.

Plus we don't have Exxon/Mobil or Shell around here so BP is the best option.

PGA2B
07-20-11, 01:30 PM
I still have GTP parts like the Wizaird CAI and DHP PCM. I don't remember my old name, so I made a new one, but it hasn't been activated. Still waiting 3 months later, no response to emails either. WTF?

I finally figured out my old password. I was a beta tester for the DHP Powertuner if that tells you anything...........

JFJr
07-20-11, 01:37 PM
Can anyone explain why BP is not listed among the "top tier" brands?

Jud

smackdownCTSV
07-20-11, 01:49 PM
They use to have it where it was 10 cent more each grade up here in KC. Now it is 32 cents to go from 87 to 93.

Plus we don't have Exxon/Mobil or Shell around here so BP is the best option.

Yeah, but he said he makes a quarter a gallon on 93 octane. I thought they only made around a nickle, 10 cents a gallon tops.

smackdownCTSV
07-20-11, 01:50 PM
I finally figured out my old password. I was a beta tester for the DHP Powertuner if that tells you anything...........

It's been a very long time, it was a GTP specific email, so it'd take a while to recover it.

JimmyH
07-20-11, 02:47 PM
whatever you guys do, DO NOT add NOS energy drink to your gas tank. lulz.

PGA2B
07-20-11, 03:14 PM
whatever you guys do, DO NOT add NOS energy drink to your gas tank. lulz.

I have added it to my stomach tank...........

JimmyH
07-20-11, 04:25 PM
then you were following the directions on the label, unlike some poor gixxer rider...

M5eater
07-20-11, 05:17 PM
whatever you guys do, DO NOT add NOS energy drink to your gas tank. lulz.

whoops...

cts-v ls6
07-20-11, 10:40 PM
Nothing but 87 octane Costco for me during the week, and a tank of their 93 octane for the weekends.

Jack

M5eater
07-21-11, 07:29 AM
Nothing but 87 octane Costco for me during the week, and a tank of their 93 octane for the weekends.

Jack

I never understood using lower grade fuels in cars that can take advantage of higher octane. The cost savings is just so small, and that's before caculating lower fuel economy from 87.

JimmyH
07-21-11, 05:42 PM
I calculated it in my 06 CTS 3.6. The break even point was around $3.00 gallon for me. Below that, the additional mpg didn't cover the added cost. Above that, the additional mpg more than paid for the added cost.

M5eater
07-21-11, 07:10 PM
I calculated it in my 06 CTS 3.6. The break even point was around $3.00 gallon for me. Below that, the additional mpg didn't cover the added cost. Above that, the additional mpg more than paid for the added cost.
its about $25/month savings to use 87 (15K/year @ 14mpg with 3.68/3.98 figures)

cts-v ls6
07-21-11, 08:50 PM
M5Seater

15k miles per year?! Are you kidding me? I wish! I'm running 50k miles per year. (20k miles since March 1st this year). The savings are real. And I also buy used tires!

Jack

M5eater
07-21-11, 09:20 PM
M5Seater

15k miles per year?! Are you kidding me? I wish! I'm running 50k miles per year. (20k miles since March 1st this year). The savings are real. And I also buy used tires!

Jack
I could keep arguing here on multiple points, but I won't, to each their own. Glad you're driving her instead of keeping it a garage queen.