: Which upgraded injector do you guys prefer?



Junkie414
05-02-11, 06:06 PM
Who has the best luck with what? Im leaning towards ID850's or some Siemens 83's

PhxTriode
05-02-11, 07:04 PM
ID 850's hands down and I hav owned both

I beilieve I was the first on the forum to use and can't speak more highly of the product or the data they provide.

DrumStix
05-02-11, 10:23 PM
Here we go again. :)

PhxTriode
05-02-11, 10:33 PM
We use modified LS9 injectors for all our LS3 and LS7 supercharger systems. I've used hundreds of them and like them much better than the Seimens.
I do use Seimens injectors in my LS1 and LS6 stuff, however.
I'm not a supporting vendor so don't take this as an offer to sell them here. I'm just saying ID injectors are way overpriced for something that is readily available elsewhere.

I am assuming you have had the pleasure of tuning with ID's to formulate an educated opinion?

I have used the drilled LS9's and find most people just scale and bake the rest into the MAF transfer or rape their PE...

wait4me
05-02-11, 10:40 PM
I have used HUNDREDS of ls9 modded injectors as well, They work just fine with the right tables..... And for a TON cheaper.

Domsz06
05-02-11, 11:42 PM
ugh, i have a feeling i am replying to another soon to be locked thread. Injectors are such hot topics, people really get pissy about em.

Junkie414
05-03-11, 12:30 AM
What are the modded LS9 injectors ok until? I'm doing a 10" lower and planning on using a dry kit as well.

PremierJosh
05-03-11, 09:57 AM
I have never had a problem with modded ls9's either and also us them in every ls3+ needing more fuel. I know some on here have had problems tuning them but I think that has a lot to do on who tunes them and mods them.

wait4me
05-03-11, 10:06 AM
ugh, i have a feeling i am replying to another soon to be locked thread. Injectors are such hot topics, people really get pissy about em.


We dont get pissy about them, We just get mad when they say they are the only option that will work, and that is not even close to the case.

The ones we do for 300 bucks work all the way up to 1200 engine hp. I just set them to the desired operating flow range for the customers hp and can be upped at any time in the future as well. Even modding them 2 times and you are still cheaper than the other guys...

Im running them in just about every single one of my cars as well, and most of my cars are 600-1200 RWHP range..

To say an injector dont work right is not the injectors fault. That was all im trying to say... There are alot cheaper just as good routes to go out there for your fueling...

Vapordoc
05-03-11, 10:24 AM
I am a newb here, and honestly do not know a great deal about this platform yet.

I was however very active in the GTR community, and I still hold the record 1/4 mile time for any stock turbo GTR by a good margin.

FWIW, I used Injector Dynamics 1000 cc injectors in my GTR and I was VERY HAPPY with them. Excellent injectors.

hemi2LS
05-03-11, 10:52 AM
We dont get pissy about them, We just get mad when they say they are the only option that will work, and that is not even close to the case.

The ones we do for 300 bucks work all the way up to 1200 engine hp. I just set them to the desired operating flow range for the customers hp and can be upped at any time in the future as well. Even modding them 2 times and you are still cheaper than the other guys...

Im running them in just about every single one of my cars as well, and most of my cars are 600-1200 RWHP range..

To say an injector dont work right is not the injectors fault. That was all im trying to say... There are alot cheaper just as good routes to go out there for your fueling...

Are the modified LS9 injectors direct swap for the stock ones?

wait4me
05-03-11, 11:20 AM
Yes, they fit right in without cutting any wires. Also the Rubber seals are still the same size so you dont have to worry about leaks. Which is what alot of people have issues with and blame them on the other injectors. The orings have to be swapped over from your stock ones if you use an aftermarket injector or they will leak and cause issues...

Junkie414
05-03-11, 02:13 PM
So do the wait4me or A&A modded injectors come with any data to support them? So the local tuner could tune them

CTSV4now
05-03-11, 02:17 PM
Aren't the LSA and LS9 stock injectors the exact same size? The fuel pressure in the LS9 is higher, which results in more flow. At least that is what I read on the Lingenfelter website.

ChasJr
05-03-11, 03:43 PM
We use modified LS9 injectors for all our LS3 and LS7 supercharger systems. I've used hundreds of them and like them much better than the Seimens.
I do use Seimens injectors in my LS1 and LS6 stuff, however.
I'm not a supporting vendor so don't take this as an offer to sell them here. I'm just saying ID injectors are way overpriced for something that is readily available elsewhere.

This guy knows what he's talking about too....

PhxTriode
05-03-11, 06:47 PM
I have used HUNDREDS of ls9 modded injectors as well, They work just fine with the right tables..... And for a TON cheaper.

Keywords "right tables", but Jesse you know as well as I do that there are a ton of "Tuners" (not implying Andy is one of them) that just scale the IFR table and short pulse tables and call it done. Any error is just baked into the MAF transfer. If someone spends the time to figure out voltage vs pressure offsets for the modified injectors they hold the data pretty tight to the chest (or have to spend $250 on a DVD that doesn't apply to these ECU's)

I will send you those drilled ones I have and see what you can make of them as I have no use for them

Im just sayin..... :-)

Andy no offense intend by my previous post but I am sure you have fixed tons of hacked injector tables from other people and understand where i am coming from.

For the OP it is a matter of taste and comfort of whom ever is tuning your machine. If you have any questions about my experience with the ID's in my car PM me I will help anyway I can

DSteck
05-03-11, 07:47 PM
Debating wether or not I really want to do this again... Because the "pros" are always right. *maniacal laughing*

Response matching? What's that? That's nonsensical jibberish.

Paul Yaw
05-03-11, 09:51 PM
I'm just saying ID injectors are way overpriced for something that is readily available elsewhere.

Injector sets that are slope and offset matched, and supplied with OEM quality characterization files (http://www.injectordynamics.com/ApplicationData.html)are not readily available elsewhere.

Paul Yaw

wait4me
05-04-11, 12:46 AM
Paul if you guys want to start pimping your injectors then please just pay to support this site like everyone else. It isnt expensive and you are doing the V guys a favor by keeping this site going.

When you are a sponsor then i will not speak of any other injectors...

Razorecko
05-04-11, 01:18 AM
I agree with the comment " get the injector your tuner can work with ". If you have a tuner that can only work with id's than go for it. If a tuner can work with the ls9's and for a lower price than its great too. $ 400+ if thats what your tuner can work with than its still cheaper than making multiple tune visits and troubleshooting. If you can rock out a great tune with 1 visit and save some pennies than good sh*t.

Paul Yaw
05-04-11, 01:42 AM
Deleted

Paul Yaw
05-04-11, 02:31 AM
Paul if you guys want to start pimping your injectors then please just pay to support this site like everyone else. It isnt expensive and you are doing the V guys a favor by keeping this site going.

When you are a sponsor then i will not speak of any other injectors...

Done

Paul Yaw
Injector Dynamics (http://www.injectordynamics.com/)

Paul Yaw
05-04-11, 04:06 AM
Behind the scenes, in the injector business, there is a lot of " who copied who" that I won't get into.

I welcome the opportunity to get into this. I've yet to see claims that I copied equipment design, method of matching, method of generating response curves, method of reverse engineering OEM injector models, method of writing educational articles, or method of presenting injector characteristics in an easy to understand manner in a free injector seminar at the last three PRI shows.


Lets say I order 160 injectors from them. Do I pay for the information 1 time and pay for 20 sets of injectors or do I pay for the information 20 times as well as the injectors ? This is a serious question.

I could ask a similar question. If I order a supercharger kit from you, am I paying for a portion of your development fees with each kit that I order? Or did I pay for all of your development costs with the first kit, and am I continuing to pay again and again each time I purchase another kit?

Do you feel that this question has relevance to your pricing structure?

Should all potential customers consider this before purchasing your kit?


I'm not opposed to trying their injectors, I would actually be a good customer.

And I'm not opposed to sending you a set for testing. I think that just like the others, you would be impressed with the engine smoothness that comes from a set that is matched across the pulsewidth range, and you would appreciate the ease of tuning that comes with accurate data.


A lot of these "secret" tables are not so great. Maybe I'm wrong about this particular engine as I'm strictly a Corvette tuner.

This is not relevant to my product. The tables that we supply are a mathematical description of the injectors dynamic response, and they are an integral part of the OEM controller whether it be GM, Ford, Chrysler, Bosch, Motec, etc.

For the PCM to calculate a pulsewidth that will deliver the correct amount of fuel to the cylinder, it has to reference the response of the injector.

Just as it has to reference a MAF curve, or a displacement value to calculate cylinder charge based on VE and inlet conditions.

If there are any "secret" tables, I don't know about them.


I was one who paid to get the proper information on the Siemens 60s, 80s, etc from Mr Banish.
If you use the information , as given, you end up with a lot of off idle surging. I spent a lot of time tryiing to straighten it out and found that the minimum injector pulse table was the issue. I have it figured out now.

This is also not relevant to my product. The data that you received from another individual, for an entirely different injector is not something that you can fairly attribute to anyone who offers characterized injectors.


I have the modified LS9 injectors in my twin turbo Z06. It idles fine, doesn't surge, gets good gas mileage and makes ridiculous power. What am I missing by not paying double for my injectors?

You are missing a higher level of consistency, meaning the difference from one set to the next will be far less.

You are missing sets that are matched across the pulsewidth range so that the deviation from one injector to the next remains small even at low pulsewidths.

You are missing an accurate injector model which is an integral part of the factory PCM. If you are a competent tuner, you have probably gotten quite good at tweeking the injector model until you are happy with the results, but that does not mean it can't get better.

And finally, you are missing a product that is the result of the same attention to detail that you put into your own supercharger kits. I just got done reading your website, and I can see how much you value attention to detail.

Presumably because you believe that the details make a difference.


If I thought I'd get another 40 RWHP, or 5 MPG, I'd probably buy some.

If you decide that you are interested, you don't have to buy them. I'll send you a set to test.

If you don't like them, send them back. If you do like them I'll send you an invoice.

I would only make this offer if I thought that you were truly interested, and that you would give them a fair shake.

Now that I have provided serious answers to your questions, maybe that will happen.

Too often only one side is heard. That side comes from a group who have had it easy for years. A group who stagnated and never made an effort to improve their craft to keep up with technology.

As a result, there was a void, and Injector Dynamics came along to fill that void. And we will continue to push forward, no matter how much resistance we get from the remaining injector suppliers who are not willing to improve their craft.

If you have any more questions, please ask. It will not turn into a pissing match. There was a war, but its long past.

Paul Yaw
Injector Dynamics (http://www.injectordynamics.com/)

94guy
05-04-11, 08:54 AM
paul, is there any MPG or hp to be gained from your injectors?

DrumStix
05-04-11, 09:40 AM
I didn't say "drilled" now did I?


This guy knows of what he speaks.

Many ways to skin cat. Proper way is big opinion. Folks on boards like argue with opinion.

DrumStix
05-04-11, 09:46 AM
.


Geeze. I make a simple statement about injectors I have used and feel are quite adequate and look what happens.
Obviously there is some kind of "injector war" on this site that I was not aware of.
Behind the scenes, in the injector business, there is a lot of " who copied who" that I won't get into.
ID injectors are a good product. I just don't feel it's worth an extra $400 or so to get these tables.
Lets say I order 160 injectors from them. Do I pay for the information 1 time and pay for 20 sets of injectors or do I pay for the information 20 times as well as the injectors ?
This is a serious question. I'm not opposed to trying their injectors, I would actually be a good customer.
A lot of these "secret" tables are not so great. Maybe I'm wrong about this particular engine as I'm strictly a Corvette tuner.
I was one who paid to get the proper information on the Siemens 60s, 80s, etc from Mr Banish.
If you use the information , as given, you end up with a lot of off idle surging. I spent a lot of time tryiing to straighten it out and found that the minimum injector pulse table was the issue. I have it figured out now.
I have the modified LS9 injectors in my twin turbo Z06. It idles fine, doesn't surge, gets good gas mileage and makes ridiculous power. What am I missing by not paying double for my injectors? If I thought I'd get another 40 RWHP, or 5 MPG, I'd probably buy some. I don't see that happening, however.
I'm not trying to stir the pot but I'd really like to know what I may be missing.
I'd like to change subjects now.

Yep. You stepped solidly into it. I've watched your stuff for years when I was in CA. you did some nice Procharger work. Tread carefully here at first or folks sensitivities will get the best of you. :)

Domsz06
05-04-11, 12:36 PM
Yep. You stepped solidly into it. I've watched your stuff for years when I was in CA. you did some nice Procharger work. Tread carefully here at first or folks sensitivities will get the best of you. :)

lol so true!

DSteck
05-04-11, 02:03 PM
What I still don't understand is if this magic Excel file exists that characterizes injectors... then why the need to jack fuel presure really low and low fuel demands in order to push an injector into the linear operating range? You can't do that on any Corvette except the ZR1, can't do it on F-bodies, or GTOs, or older CTS-Vs, or a host of other vehicles.

Anybody wanting a good read:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/224632-finally-injector-my-car-likes.html?highlight=

Hopefully nobody's going to make an alter-ego in this thread and claim they work for Scoggin Dickey again.

Paul Yaw
05-04-11, 06:50 PM
paul, is there any MPG or hp to be gained from your injectors?

Compared to a stock injector, I would say no. Stock injectors are reasonably well matched from the factory. The fact that they run at relatively high pulsewidths where the deviation from injector to injector is less means that the fueling is typically good across all cylinders.

I will say that compared to stock injectors, mine will deliver as good as stock mileage if tuned properly. I see that you have been dealing with Taylor at Dallas Performance, and so I know it will be well tuned. That being the case, expect stock mileage from your ID850's...if you can keep your foot out of it!

Compared to some of the other stuff out there, it's a different story. Worse case scenario would be a set of poorly matched injectors with drilled atomizer plates.

In addition to the lack of consistency in spray pattern and atomisation, the poor match at low pulsewidths will cause all kinds of excitement. Cylinders that are either richer, or leaner than target will have reduced output, which means reduced economy. If this situation is extreme, you might find that you cannot achieve stoichiometric idle/cruise without misfires because some of the cylinders are running so lean.

(If I have a little more time tonight, of if you pester me enough I will post some data from work we did for Vortech engineering where we found a nearly 40% spread at 2 milliseconds. Not a good thing when you are tuning for 50 state emissions compliance!)

As I'm sure you know, optimum ignition timing is mixture dependent. A poorly matched set will leave you with 2 possibilities.

1. You set timing to a value that is the best compromise for the range of mixtures across the cylinders.

2. You limit your advance to a number that satisfies the knock requirement of your leanest cylinder.

Neither situation is good, and either will cost you power. In this case, you should expect improvements in both power and economy.

At the end of the day it comes down to the quality of what we compare them to.

Our goal is to provide you with the highest possible quality in all areas so that your injectors become something you don't think about. Afterall, your time is best spent tuning the engine, not the injectors.

Just to make a boring post more exciting (And controversial...) i'll include these photos of drilled atomizer plates, courtesy of Jim Wolf Technology (http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/).

http://www.injectordynamics.com/drilled_injectors.jpg

Paul Yaw
Injector Dynamics (http://www.injectordynamics.com/)

serturbo
05-04-11, 07:33 PM
My friends have turbo Hondas and they all love ID injectors. They really like how easy it is to tune with them. Getting a tiny motor with huge injectors to idle can be a total nightmare when using an unmatched set. The youtube vid of that Acura using ID2000s amazed me.

DoingOK
05-04-11, 07:41 PM
All this injector talk....very interesting. So, on a side note, who is the best V tuner in the Mid Atlantic region? Va, MD, Washington DC????

Paul Yaw
05-04-11, 08:46 PM
All this injector talk....very interesting. So, on a side note, who is the best V tuner in the Mid Atlantic region? Va, MD, Washington DC????

There is a guy named Greg Banish (http://www.calibratedsuccess.com/) who is an ex GM calibration engineer and has been travelling across the country training guys to tune GM apps properly.

In my opinion, he would be the guy most likely to give you a solid answer.

Paul Yaw
Injector Dynamics (http://www.injectordynamics.com/)

majdewey
05-04-11, 09:16 PM
I have used HUNDREDS of ls9 modded injectors as well, They work just fine with the right tables..... And for a TON cheaper.

Where do you purchase the modified ls9 injectors and what is the cost....

Domsz06
05-05-11, 09:06 AM
Where do you purchase the modified ls9 injectors and what is the cost....

call jesse (Wait4Me)

94guy
05-05-11, 09:31 PM
paul i sent you a pm

Junkie414
05-05-11, 10:19 PM
Ended up with ID850's. I've had ID2000's in my Supra for awhile and couldn't be happier with them.

Paul Yaw
05-06-11, 03:08 AM
paul i sent you a pm

I don't have a message from you. In fact I have never received a PM on this forum. You can reach me at paul@yawpower.com but I would prefer to figure out why I'm not getting PM's.

PhxTriode
05-06-11, 01:10 PM
Ended up with ID850's. I've had ID2000's in my Supra for awhile and couldn't be happier with them.

Welcome to the dark side

94guy
05-06-11, 01:37 PM
paul i sent you an email

Razorecko
05-06-11, 01:59 PM
So how much power are the ID850's good for ?

Paul Yaw
05-09-11, 02:45 AM
So how much power are the ID850's good for ?

Hey there.

Sorry for the delay.

Our horsepower calculator can be found here: Injector Dynamics Technical Articles (http://www.injectordynamics.com/tech.html)

I would expect a BSFC of .65 to .7 for your roots type mechanically supercharged engines.

Let me know if you have any questions.

BluMachine
05-09-11, 03:04 PM
I will be in the market for a set of injectors soon. One issue I have come across repeatedly that has not been addressed in this thread is the supposed "angled spray pattern" built into the LSA/9 stock injectors. Some questions:

1. Is it true they have angled spray pattern?

2. Is the angled spray pattern maintained after they are modded?

3. If they do have angled spray pattern, what are the drawbacks of other injectors that don't?

4. Does ID injectors have angled spray pattern, and if not how is that accomodated in the characterization/tune files?

5. Do the vendors providing modded LSA/9 injectors provide proven characterization tables and other tune tweaks, or is that considered additional?

I don't have a dog in this race and am only seeking knowledge. I have HPTuner, but I am not a tuner. I have a tuner in my area helping me with the heavy lifting and he has agreed to share his knowledge so I can advance my skills. My goal is to learn more about tuning and to be able to log, make minor tweaks in real time, and be in control of the tune (and files) on MY car rather than be at the mercy of someone else. I like the idea of proven characterization tables being provided with the injectors given my current state of expertise (not much lol). If I can save some $$ and get the same results all the better, but spending the extra $ upfront for a turnkey solution is not going to break the bank.

My car currently has 160 stat, KPE, ported TB & snout, and 9.5 lower. I have front cat delete pipes and an LS9 cam waiting to go in.
Car made 535 corrected rwhp w/ 16* up top. Has been a best of 11.25 @ 124 in good weather. Stock injectors are maxed.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Paul Yaw
05-09-11, 04:23 PM
I will be in the market for a set of injectors soon. One issue I have come across repeatedly that has not been addressed in this thread is the supposed "angled spray pattern" built into the LSA/9 stock injectors. Some questions:

1. Is it true they have angled spray pattern?

I do not know the answer to that question. If you can give me the part number for your stock injector, I will see if I have one and check the pattern.


2. Is the angled spray pattern maintained after they are modded?

The spray pattern of a drilled injector is quite random with no two being the same. The pictures in the earlier post explain why.


3. If they do have angled spray pattern, what are the drawbacks of other injectors that don't?

An angled spray pattern is typically used to insure the fuel targets the back of the valve when packaging limitations make this impossible with a non angled pattern.

If replaced with a non angled injector (Injector Dynamics Included) the result would be increased wall wetting which has to be accounted for by re-tuning the transient fueling parameters.

To understand the result of increased wall wetting, consider a scenario where nothing else is changed except for an increase in wall wetting due to a change in spray angle.

When fuel requirements are increasing, such as during rapid throttle opening, the mixture will be leaner.

When fuel requirements are decreasing, such as during rapid throttle closure, the mixture will be richer.

It is also possible that overall mixture preparation will be worse because any fuel that impinges on the runner wall will coalesce which means all those fine droplets of fuel now turn into one big puddle.

The effects will likely be greater when the engine is cold.

As bad as all that sounds, keep in mind that's the theoretical description. In practice the degree of these changes may make them un noticeable, or at least easily manageable.

For further details, there is a good article on transient fueling here (http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/xtau.htm) on the Megasquirt site. The article specifically details something called X-Tau fueling which is a method of dealing with transient fueling. It was developed by Ford eons ago. Your cars use a similar method and so the article is well worth reading.


4. Does ID injectors have angled spray pattern, and if not how is that accomodated in the characterization/tune files?

The characterization files do not take spray pattern into consideration. They only describe the dynamic flow characteristics of the injector. As mentioned above, the transient tuning parameters in the PCM must be tuned to account for any differences in wall wetting.

I can not say from experience if you will need to re-tune these parameters. You might want to ask Phxtriode, as he has put a fair amount of street miles on his car with the ID850's.

Also, DSteck has a solid understanding of transient fueling, and worked with Phxtriode on his tune.

At the end of the day, you will likely be limited to what spray pattern is available in the size that you need. I think if you could see 8 drilled injectors spraying random streams of fuel every which way, the overall angle of the spray pattern would be the furthest thing from your mind.


5. Do the vendors providing modded LSA/9 injectors provide proven characterization tables and other tune tweaks, or is that considered additional?

I challenge any of these vendors to provide accurate characterization files, and the raw flow vs pulsewidth curves used to generate them.


I don't have a dog in this race and am only seeking knowledge.

Hopefully I have given you the information you need. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

The fact is, if your existing injectors have an angled spray pattern, the straight pattern of the ID850 is not ideal. At least not technically speaking. In practice it will work quite well and I think you will be very happy.

PhxTriode
05-09-11, 05:10 PM
Paul and Blumachine,

I have not experienced any transient fueling issues with 6000+ miles on the ID's and made no changes to any of the transient fueling tables. I have done a fair amount of logging with these injectors and find for instance @2600rpm it takes less than .3 sec from when the ECU commands an AFR until my wideband (NTK in the collector) shows target AFR is hit.

Considering all the options out there for the LSA ( deka's, drilled or ID's ) none would support the angled spray pattern... and yes I have tried all 3.

Paul Yaw
05-09-11, 06:36 PM
Paul and Blumachine,

I have not experienced any transient fueling issues with 6000+ miles on the ID's and made no changes to any of the transient fueling tables. I have done a fair amount of logging with these injectors and find for instance @2600rpm it takes less than .3 sec from when the ECU commands an AFR until my wideband (NTK in the collector) shows target AFR is hit.

Considering all the options out there for the LSA ( deka's, drilled or ID's ) none would support the angled spray pattern... and yes I have tried all 3.

When I set up the parameters for closed loop control on a Motec or Bosch Motorsport ECU I "bump the system" to determine response time at various load and rpm points.

You do this by holding the engine at a steady load/rpm and then changing the pulsewidth by 10% and recording how long it takes to stabilize at the new lambda value.

The end result is total system response including the lambda sensor delay itself which runs in the neighborhood of .15 to .2 msec. It would be an interesting test to perform on a V comparing stock to ID850's.

I understand that if the car responds well, and the data logs look good, you might not alter the transient fueling parameters. But...I find this is one of the best places to look for fuel economy.

PhxTriode
05-09-11, 08:51 PM
When I set up the parameters for closed loop control on a Motec or Bosch Motorsport ECU I "bump the system" to determine response time at various load and rpm points.

You do this by holding the engine at a steady load/rpm and then changing the pulsewidth by 10% and recording how long it takes to stabilize at the new lambda value.

The end result is total system response including the lambda sensor delay itself which runs in the neighborhood of .15 to .2 msec. It would be an interesting test to perform on a V comparing stock to ID850's.

I understand that if the car responds well, and the data logs look good, you might not alter the transient fueling parameters. But...I find this is one of the best places to look for fuel economy.

Wow .15 to .2msec is fast. Maybe Ill give Dave a buzz and play with transients. I will say the MPG is better than any other injector I have tried I avg. 18-19MPG when I only ration myself to 2 WOT blasts a day .

BluMachine
05-09-11, 11:26 PM
Considering all the options out there for the LSA ( deka's, drilled or ID's ) none would support the angled spray pattern... and yes I have tried all 3.

Are you saying the stockers are angled and all of the aftermarket options aren't?

Thanks to those who have responded to my long winded post. Would like to see wait4me weigh in as well.

PhxTriode
05-10-11, 12:37 AM
Are you saying the stockers are angled and all of the aftermarket options aren't?

Thanks to those who have responded to my long winded post. Would like to see wait4me weigh in as well.

Correct on the aftermarket options not being angled. And after seeing the images that Paul posted of the drilled, your hosed there too. I have to say I have no issues with the ID's not being angled and it will be the last set of injector for my car... Unless a 1000+hp starts itching at me :-) then it's ID1000's

PhxTriode
05-10-11, 12:38 AM
Correct on the aftermarket options not being angled. And after see the images that Paul posted of the drilled your hosed there too. I have to say I have no issues with the ID's not being angled and it will be the last set of injector for my car... Unless a 1000+hp starts itching at me :-) then it's ID1000's

Remember I am not selling anything...just sharing my experience