: A whole lot of rumors...



Lord Cadillac
05-01-11, 07:28 PM
This hasn't already been posted here. Has it? It's messy and difficult to read. I'll clean it up later. It's a reply from here:
http://backfires.caranddriver.com/forums/53/posts/74225-cadillac-working-on-soft-top-convertible-to-slot-between-the-ats-and-cts



The Car and Driver source is WRONG. As a member of the Cadillac R&D Team, the car will be an ATS Convertible based on the ATS. What's new is that we have decided to change the Cadillac nomenclature. The ATS Coupe (ATC) will not be a rival to the Audi A5 at all. For instance, The range will include the ATS (Sedan), and the ATC (coupe & Convertible variant). The CTS (sedan) and the next CTS Coupe will become the ETC. No convertible version will be available, but its a beautiful design with a real functional panoramic roof.

I posted the future product range on another car enthusiast website so I'll paste it here: As a GM Insider I can share this with you all. Cadillac has a bevy of new products that will hit the market in the next couple of years: The products that you know of: 2013 ATS – A small 3 series fighter that will come in 3 variants that are confirmed. A sedan, coupe and canvas top convertible. A sport wagon may occur. The design however is done. An ATS-V model will also be available in sedan and coupe form only.

2014 CTS – Grows in sizes and becomes a direct BMW 5-series, Lexus GS, Mercedes E-Class, Hyundai Genesis competitor. The CTS will come in two forms The sedan and the coupe (however the coupe may not continue using the CTS moniker, and may evoke the spirit of the badge ETC (previously an Eldorado trim line). The V-Series companion will also be sold.

2014 FTS – Actually previewed in the XTS Platinum Concept. The XTS Platinum Concept will materialize as FTS model. The decision was made to change the moniker after the XTS Platinum Concept was previewed the Design to as a full-size model. That will compete with the Chrysler 300, Infiniti M, Hyundai Equus, and the upcoming Acura RL. This model will not get a V-Series companion. The FTS name was trademarked two years ago.

2016 XLS Flagship Model, A Four Door Ultra-Luxo sedan three design proposals exist, a traditional sedan, a four door coupe, and a four door shooting brake concept. However the model will NOT use a V-16 engine. But a turbo-charged V-8 is more likely. As of today all designs sit only four people. The price point is speculated to began around $80K. (This is the car that so many refer to as the Sixteen. This model will actually use the XLS moniker but is NOT THE the model previewed in the XTS Platinum Concept which will become the FTS) A V-series model is expected to compete with the Audi S8, and Merc’s S-Class and CLS AMG models.

2014 SRX will get a makeover.

2014 Escalade – The Escalade gets redesigned. The EXT version is dropped. The ESV model will continue. Previously scheduled for 2013 but was just pushed to 2014 last Monday.

Now here is what you DON’T know! - (Unnamed Cadillac) Subcompact / GM is surveying how the market will react to the MB A-Class and B Class variants, BMW’s i3, BMW sub-1 series model and Audi’s A1, a designed has been locked in for a subcompact model previewed in the 2010 Cadillac ULC.

(Unnamed Cadillac) Lambda-based Crossover, this will fit between the SRX and the Escalade. It will feature three rows of seating but will be car-based unlike the truck-based Escalade. A concept of this model will hit the auto show circuit next year. Cadillac Perimeter Concept. (Internally known as GM940)

2016 XLR. The XLR returns A new Halo Coupe has been sketched and is in the clay model phase. The model will compete with Audi’s R8, BMW’s i8, and Mercedes CL and SLS AMG models. The clay model sits next to the rough model of the C7 Corvette. The C7 will underpin the new XLR, but it will only come as a coupe model and not a convertible (as of yet). The model blends sport and luxury far beyond what the previous model could ever dream of.

So Cadillac will have 10 different models by 2018 bringing it to a full and credible line to become “The New Standard of the World”.

Ranger
05-01-11, 09:48 PM
Well, if I wasn't confused enough before, that conglomeration of alphabetic monikers certainly did it for me. :bonkers:

77CDV
05-01-11, 10:29 PM
....animal crackers in my (alphabet) soup.....

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o53/culture30s/shirley_temple.jpg

Cadillac Tony
05-01-11, 11:20 PM
While I can't confirm a few of the specifics, I can tell you that we were recently shown a timeline of the next decade with a large number of new or completely redesigned product coming through the pipeline.

Everything is subject to change of course, but GM has BIG plans for the Cadillac brand. As I've said here countless times, the groundwork is being laid with the SRX, CTS and ATS. What comes next is going to blow people's minds.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-02-11, 12:06 AM
Good. I'm excited Tony.

thebigjimsho
05-02-11, 12:11 AM
Did you know Osama was killed?

ben.gators
05-02-11, 12:11 AM
Eagerly waiting.....

Lord Cadillac
05-02-11, 10:44 AM
Sounds great, Tony. Thanks for sharing that little teaser with us. :)


While I can't confirm a few of the specifics, I can tell you that we were recently shown a timeline of the next decade with a large number of new or completely redesigned product coming through the pipeline.

Everything is subject to change of course, but GM has BIG plans for the Cadillac brand. As I've said here countless times, the groundwork is being laid with the SRX, CTS and ATS. What comes next is going to blow people's minds.

Florian
05-02-11, 11:13 AM
money ready....need new Caddys.


F

OffThaHorseCEO
05-02-11, 01:18 PM
As a member of the Cadillac R&D Team, the car will be an ATS Convertible based on the ATS.

I HAAATTTEEE sentences like these, just because you say that doesnt mean its true. At least get the grammar right.

Thats like me saying "As the CEO of AT&T, the iphone sucks"

buuut, new xlr = :drool:

The Raven
05-03-11, 10:48 PM
I like the plans, but not so much the names. Let's try and establish some consistency FOR ONCE!!! God...it's bad enough that we have to deal with this three-letter naming scheme (I do like it to a point) but PICK A GODDAMN NAME and STICK WITH IT!!! This is a hallmark of ALL OTHER LUXURY BRANDS...get it down cadillac. The 3, 5, and 7 series have been around forever, The C, E, and S classes have too. We need to establish a core line and LEAVE IT!! I'm fine with the S=sedan and C=coupe, but a CTS coupe should be a CTC then, not ETC (WTF?!). It seemed to me like they were headed in the right direction with ATS, then CTS, then XTS. But if the above info is correct (and it sounds very feasible), we've got a mess brewing AGAIN!

cadillac kevin
05-03-11, 11:07 PM
if the CTS coupe is an ETC, than the CTS sedan should be the STS which would make the wagon a ??? (I'd call it a biarritz EXT just for the hell of it.)
seriously, who comes up with these names? I hate alphabet soup, and changing the letters all around confuses the hell out of me. besides, who would want a rwd eldorado that looks like a CTS? I guess that would screw up the super long hood/ short decklid formula of the eldorado.

77CDV
05-05-11, 02:57 AM
besides, who would want a rwd eldorado that looks like a CTS? I guess that would screw up the super long hood/ short decklid formula of the eldorado.

On the trivial side, it would be the first RWD Eldo since 1966.

gothicaleigh
05-05-11, 06:47 PM
besides, who would want a rwd eldorado that looks like a CTS?

I would.
(and pretty much anyone who bought the CTS coupe)


I guess that would screw up the super long hood/ short decklid formula of the eldorado.

Decklids don't get shorter than this:
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/2011-Cadillac-CTS-Coupe-001.jpg


Chop off the ridiculous amount of overhang in the front and back of the ETC and the proportions aren't that different:
http://www.8thdaycreations.com/images/bfc/EldoradoETC_side.jpg
...and no modern car design is going to hang that much weight out past the wheels anymore.




*EDIT* I scaled and overlayed one on top of the other to illustrate:
http://www.8thdaycreations.com/images/bfc/EldoradoCTS.jpg

Playdrv4me
05-05-11, 08:43 PM
Oh good, my Escalade remains current for another year. Nothing else on that list really "mind blowing" save for the XLR and possibly the XLS.... but by 2016 things could be entirely different... that's a LONG ass way from now.

hueterm
05-05-11, 09:04 PM
Oh, those two pics next to each other speak for themselves.

The Eldo is a Cadillac...the CTS is a stubby little Infiniti...

The CTS might as well have a hatchback.

JimmyH
05-05-11, 09:46 PM
*EDIT* I scaled and overlayed one on top of the other to illustrate:
http://www.8thdaycreations.com/images/bfc/EldoradoCTS.jpg



You're scale is a little off. It's more like this:

http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/cars/eldocts.jpg

JimmyH
05-05-11, 09:49 PM
it's bad enough that we have to deal with this three-letter naming scheme

I am with you there.


The 3, 5, and 7 series have been around forever, The C, E, and S classes have too.

And nobody except sauerkraut worshipers can decipher what those "names" mean.

drewsdeville
05-05-11, 09:51 PM
I thought BMW's 3, 5, and 7 series was pretty coherent and intuitive. What do have trouble "deciphering"?

thebigjimsho
05-05-11, 10:05 PM
p00p.

JimmyH
05-05-11, 10:55 PM
^for once I agree with you

orconn
05-06-11, 12:33 AM
Oh, those two pics next to each other speak for themselves.

The Eldo is a Cadillac...the CTS is a stubby little Infiniti...

The CTS might as well have a hatchback.

It doesn't have a hatchback? What a shame, it sure looks likeit should be one! Proportions are very similar to the Mercedes 230 Kompressor Sport Coupe of a few years back.

cadillac kevin
05-06-11, 12:50 AM
CTS looks like a hatchback. all you see are the massive taillights covering the deck. and the decks all of what- 10 inches long?
I love the CTS coupe, but it is not in any way an eldorado. not even close.

The Tony Show
05-06-11, 02:24 AM
I love the CTS coupe, but it is not in any way an eldorado. not even close.

And judging by the sales numbers, thanks God for that.

Jesda
05-06-11, 04:53 AM
CTS coupe appeals to people who don't buy Cadillacs. I guess thats necessary for the brand's expansion. I don't really care.

gothicaleigh
05-06-11, 10:21 AM
You're scale is a little off. It's more like this:

I was trying to compare the proportions of each car, not do a direct size comparison. :p


CTS coupe appeals to people who didn't buy Cadillacs. I guess thats necessary for the brand's expansion. I don't really care.

Evidently the Eldorado also appealed to people who didn't buy Cadillacs. That is why it got the ax. :gothiwink:

It's always telling on this forum that the vast majority of the ones who 'hate' the new european-inspired Cadillacs are those rolling around in 10 year old cars. Guess what? Cadillac is targetting those who buy new vehicles, not decade old leftovers. :gothiraspberry:


And nobody except sauerkraut worshipers can decipher what those "names" mean.

BMW's naming scheme is pretty straight forward and tells you more about the car than any made up word ever could. The first number is the size/class of the car (1, 3, 5/6, 7), the following 2 digits are the engine displacement (or near it, with very few exceptions). X is AWD, D is Diesel, C is cabriolet.
If Cadillac continues the current abbreviated nomenclature (and there is no reason they won't considering the market they are targeting), I would hope that they would adjust their letters to have similar easily understood meanings.


And judging by the sales numbers, thanks God for that.

Exactly, Cadillac is going to cater to the people who actually buy new cars. (imagine that!)

JimmyH
05-06-11, 02:21 PM
BMW's naming scheme is pretty straight forward and tells you more about the car than any made up word ever could. The first number is the size/class of the car (1, 3, 5/6, 7), the following 2 digits are the engine displacement (or near it, with very few exceptions). X is AWD, D is Diesel, C is cabriolet.
If Cadillac continues the current abbreviated nomenclature (and there is no reason they won't considering the market they are targeting), I would hope that they would adjust their letters to have similar easily understood meanings.

So why is it 3 series? Why is it C class? Why not 4 series or B class? What is the significance? Why is it 335? When it's a 3.0 liter engine? Why is it 550, when it's a 4.4 liter? Why no "t" for turbo when there is a "d" for diesel? Why no "r" for rear wheel drive when there is an "x" for all wheel drive? And why "x" on some cars and "xdrive" on others? Why is the 3 series coupe and sedan, when the 5 series is sedan only with 6-series for coupes? And really, why is "i" needed on every car?

I could go on and on. I am sure BMW junkies have studied and passed all their exams before buying a BMW, but the rest of the world scratches their head. No ok, that is not true. The rest of the world doesn't care. My point is, BMW-philes like to sing the praises of the highly technical "naming" system for BMW models, and shun real names like Corvette and Mustang that have a heritage and passion no German car will ever achieve. But it's inconsistent, makes no sense to common folks, and has about as much soul as the name "D15A875" of my toaster oven.

I know few people agree with me, and that's fine. We all think differently. I just think it's sad Cadillac has abandoned classy names like Seville and Deville in favor of euro-cloned names like STS and DTS. I find it interesting they don't have the guts to drop the name Escalade from their otherwise "Luxury" branding scheme.

JimmyH
05-06-11, 02:25 PM
Well, I thought of one German car name that does have a passionate, loyal fanbase. The Corrado. The car VW has never, and probably will never, get right :lol:

The Raven
05-06-11, 05:57 PM
So why is it 3 series? Why is it C class? Why not 4 series or B class? What is the significance? Why is it 335? When it's a 3.0 liter engine? Why is it 550, when it's a 4.4 liter? Why no "t" for turbo when there is a "d" for diesel? Why no "r" for rear wheel drive when there is an "x" for all wheel drive? And why "x" on some cars and "xdrive" on others? Why is the 3 series coupe and sedan, when the 5 series is sedan only with 6-series for coupes? And really, why is "i" needed on every car?

Actually it's no different than the naming scheme you prefer. You are correct that a name like 3XX, 5XX, or 7XX has no meaning outside of BMW. But niether does "Eldorado", "Deville", or "Seville" outside of Cadillac. Car guys know what those names mean, but they also know what you are talking about when you mention the names "330i, M3, S550, or S63"... in fact, in terms of this planet, MORE people are going to recognize the MB and BMW names than the old Cadillac names.

Cadillac simply needs to nail down a naming scheme and STICK WITH IT. "A" for the small car "C" for the midsize, and "X" for the fullsize, that's fine. BUT KEEP IT THAT WAY. The middle letter needs to mean something, and I understand the "T" for "Touring"...but then what is the "L" in XLS for? Then in the final letter, "S" for sedan, and "C" for coupe is about as straightforward as it gets. Adding "V" on the end for the performance variant, and "4" for AWD, not too tough to grasp. Alot easier than the "i" and "x" and "s" that BMW uses.

So get this figured out Cadillac, pronto.

gary88
05-06-11, 06:40 PM
So why is it 3 series? Why is it C class? Why not 4 series or B class? What is the significance? Why is it 335? When it's a 3.0 liter engine? Why is it 550, when it's a 4.4 liter? Why no "t" for turbo when there is a "d" for diesel? Why no "r" for rear wheel drive when there is an "x" for all wheel drive? And why "x" on some cars and "xdrive" on others? Why is the 3 series coupe and sedan, when the 5 series is sedan only with 6-series for coupes? And really, why is "i" needed on every car?

I could go on and on. I am sure BMW junkies have studied and passed all their exams before buying a BMW, but the rest of the world scratches their head. No ok, that is not true. The rest of the world doesn't care. My point is, BMW-philes like to sing the praises of the highly technical "naming" system for BMW models, and shun real names like Corvette and Mustang that have a heritage and passion no German car will ever achieve. But it's inconsistent, makes no sense to common folks, and has about as much soul as the name "D15A875" of my toaster oven.

I know few people agree with me, and that's fine. We all think differently. I just think it's sad Cadillac has abandoned classy names like Seville and Deville in favor of euro-cloned names like STS and DTS. I find it interesting they don't have the guts to drop the name Escalade from their otherwise "Luxury" branding scheme.


4 series is planned for the future according to Roundel
B class exists in Europe
The "35i" part designated turbo models when BMW brought them back in 2007
The 545i was top of the 5-series line from 2003-2005 (4.4L, sounds better than 544i), the 550i took over from 2005-2010 (4.8L, close enough for them I guess)
Lowercase t represents hatchbacks (at least it used to), uppercase T represents wagons/tourings
This only applies to the Z4 but the RWD version is called sDrive for "standard" (agree that it's kind of dumb)
x has been around forever to designate AWD, in 2009 I believe they dropped the x from all names and instead call it an xDrive when it's AWD and slap badges on it (xDrive is also significantly different from their old AWD systems)
6 series is built upon the 5 series platform, always has been.
The i is just around for tradition today, back in the day is designated fuel injection


As you can see I passed my exam :shifty

For me at least I really don't care about what a car is named, I'm more concerned with how it performs. Nobody outside of enthusiast groups really know what the meanings behind car names mean anyways.

hueterm
05-06-11, 07:14 PM
I have no problem with the look of the CTS sedan or wagon. I would have liked the coupe much better if it had a real trunk and a more normal back window. And I really don't have a problem with the look of the coupe -- it's just too low end to replace what the Eldorado always was in Cadillac's lineup.

And yes, I realize what the V Coupe's price is, that's not what I mean.

Until the ATS comes out, the CTS is the entry level model (of course now, it's pretty much the only model, but I digress). The Eldorado (and Seville) were always the top models. I'm glad these and the other CTSs are popular -- but they're not Eldorados or Sevilles.

The XLR coupe news/rumor is very exciting, however...

drewsdeville
05-06-11, 07:36 PM
So why is it 3 series? Why is it C class? Why not 4 series or B class? What is the significance? Why is it 335? When it's a 3.0 liter engine? Why is it 550, when it's a 4.4 liter? Why no "t" for turbo when there is a "d" for diesel? Why no "r" for rear wheel drive when there is an "x" for all wheel drive? And why "x" on some cars and "xdrive" on others? Why is the 3 series coupe and sedan, when the 5 series is sedan only with 6-series for coupes? And really, why is "i" needed on every car?

I could go on and on. I am sure BMW junkies have studied and passed all their exams before buying a BMW, but the rest of the world scratches their head. No ok, that is not true. The rest of the world doesn't care. My point is, BMW-philes like to sing the praises of the highly technical "naming" system for BMW models, and shun real names like Corvette and Mustang that have a heritage and passion no German car will ever achieve. But it's inconsistent, makes no sense to common folks, and has about as much soul as the name "D15A875" of my toaster oven.

I know few people agree with me, and that's fine. We all think differently. I just think it's sad Cadillac has abandoned classy names like Seville and Deville in favor of euro-cloned names like STS and DTS. I find it interesting they don't have the guts to drop the name Escalade from their otherwise "Luxury" branding scheme.

You make it sound like the German manufacturers are the reason for this. It's no different than the "technical" way Oldsmobile named their cars for over half of a century. In fact, the Olds and BMW naming schemes are nearly identical.

JimmyH
05-06-11, 09:45 PM
4 series is planned for the future according to Roundel
B class exists in Europe
The "35i" part designated turbo models when BMW brought them back in 2007
The 545i was top of the 5-series line from 2003-2005 (4.4L, sounds better than 544i), the 550i took over from 2005-2010 (4.8L, close enough for them I guess)
Lowercase t represents hatchbacks (at least it used to), uppercase T represents wagons/tourings
This only applies to the Z4 but the RWD version is called sDrive for "standard" (agree that it's kind of dumb)
x has been around forever to designate AWD, in 2009 I believe they dropped the x from all names and instead call it an xDrive when it's AWD and slap badges on it (xDrive is also significantly different from their old AWD systems)
6 series is built upon the 5 series platform, always has been.
The i is just around for tradition today, back in the day is designated fuel injection


As you can see I passed my exam :shifty

For me at least I really don't care about what a car is named, I'm more concerned with how it performs. Nobody outside of enthusiast groups really know what the meanings behind car names mean anyways.

you are a better student than I could ever hope to be http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/gif/biggrin.gif

The Raven
05-06-11, 11:08 PM
I'm glad these and the other CTSs are popular -- but they're not Eldorados or Sevilles.

...and I am very thankful for that fact.

DouglasJRizzo
05-07-11, 08:50 AM
I'll believe it when I see it. GM has a history of making bold statements but backing them up with badge engineered FWD trash. We'll see. So far, the CTS-V has made me happy, in that it's finally doing something that the other guys long bragged about. Now lets see if they can keep it up.

DouglasJRizzo
05-07-11, 08:57 AM
You make it sound like the German manufacturers are the reason for this. It's no different than the "technical" way Oldsmobile named their cars for over half of a century. In fact, the Olds and BMW naming schemes are nearly identical.

Haven't seen to many BMW "Vista Cruisers or Delmont 88's."
Really though, the names may not be critical but it did add a meaning to things. As much as I love my Cadillacs, things like STS and DTS are just a might sterile sounding to me. I much prefered the "Coupe DeVille" script or "Fleetwood" block lettering. But no matter, if they get the car right, that's what counts.

The only thing that irks is that now that Cadillac "might" be kicking Euro ass, their namplates are mimicking rather than leading.

drewsdeville
05-07-11, 09:12 AM
Haven't seen to many BMW "Vista Cruisers or Delmont 88's."


Wrong half-century. this mainly prevailed through the first half of the 20th century.

Olds named their cars by model and engine. Ever wonder where the familiar names "88" and "98" came from? The first number was the series of car. The higher the number, the better the model. Therefore, a 9 series car was the flagship, an 8 series car was below that, a 7 series car was below that. etc. The second number was the engine type in number of cylinders.

For example, a "76" was a 7 series car with a 6 cylinder engine. For something more recognizable, a "98" was a 9 series car with an 8 cylinder engine.

Pretty similar to what BMW does.

hueterm
05-07-11, 09:38 AM
Of course, when you add Delta and Rocket and Regency and Brougham (or whatever else) to the mix, it loses some of its Teutonic precision...

Not that I like the alphabet soup, mind you... Toronado is much preferred to 635csi -- at least in name, if not in car (depending on the year).