: Really making a 2012 STS?



carter's_sts
04-30-11, 12:40 AM
So are they really making a 2012 STS? I'm just surprised because it's not selling at all and they don't advertise it. I went to the Denver Auto Show and they didn't even have a single STS. The year before they had 2 or 3.

Also, I did a Cars.com search for new STSs and there are only 5 of them within 150 miles. There are 101 SRXs and 134 CTSs.

Kind of sad I guess. They really push the CTS.........Nice car, but I still think the STS is way nicer, especially inside.

Might have to pick up a newer one some day just because it will be cheap.

chazglenn3
04-30-11, 01:12 AM
That's my plan. I'm going to pick up the nicest 2008 or 2009 STS-V I can find in a couple of years.

onlyuscars
05-01-11, 10:36 AM
ATS replaces STS

EChas3
05-01-11, 11:26 AM
ATS replaces STS

Cadillac says the XTS replaces both the STS & DTS. If it's a technical and luxury performance flagship that would be accurate. We shall see.

The ATS is much less car.

JimmyH
05-01-11, 12:04 PM
ATS is going to be the new entry level car. It's a far cry from the STS.

I thought I read somewhere that they are continuing production of the STS simply to use up parts. Someone will buy them. Even if they sit on lots for a while, it's better than a warehouse full of parts that will never get purchased.

EChas3
05-01-11, 12:28 PM
I thought I read somewhere that they are continuing production of the STS simply to use up parts. Someone will buy them. Even if they sit on lots for a while, it's better than a warehouse full of parts that will never get purchased.

With 'just in time' manufacturing, most parts don't sit in a warehouse very long. I think the real reason is that the XTS isn't ready and they don't want the bad press associated with shutting down the factory. Once the XTS production starts, the political dynamic changes.

They may be selling some cars, too. A 1SC is a nicer car than a CTS (IMHO).

KRSTS
05-01-11, 02:17 PM
From a former GM production employee::ripped:
The Cadillac STS will be ending production this summer, with leftover parts being used to piece together final vehicles. Some of these leftover parts may be past rejects that need to be cleaned up or repaired for installation. Some of these parts, such as body panels, may have large gaps or flaws.

Get them while you still can get a quality vehicle! As you get closer to the build out (like the last 2-3 weeks of production) stay away from those vehicles. Here’s what happens: Every previously rejected part that could pass with repairs or cosmetic rework will be unloaded from the suppliers MRB cages and shipped in vehicle sequence. Sequenced parts are VERY difficult to reject during build out.
Interior fits and finishes will suffer. Anomolous electrical performance can be expected from the contents of 100′s of part totes (PCM.s BCM, Harnesses, Motors that were dropped, and should have been scrapped or had been lot rejected for high defect rates, and the supplier was charged back for the parts. These parts have been sitting gathering dust waiting for this day to arrive.
Nothing that was previously rejected by the assembly plant which can still be dolled up or retested will remain in the suppliers inventory, you can count on that. As the last 2-3 weeks arrive the suppliers will begin mixing these parts in with the “good” parts. They will be able to get away with it.

Every single part in the assembly plants inventory in the last 2 weeks will be necessary so borderline cosmetic rejects will be passed. Any extra parts remaining after the last vehicle has rolled of the final line will be sent out to service parts, and yes you guessed it , those stand a good chance of being previously rejected parts. Nice huh?

The plant body shop also frequently has bodies that are shall we say are less than perfect sitting on skucks gathering dust. These will somehow find their way onto the mixed bank when no one is “looking” and hopefully only make it into rental fleets, but you never know it could end up being yours. (Hint: Water leaks, 8 mm fender gaps, etc.)

Lastly some of the difficult electrical problem vehicles that have been sitting in the plant float will find their way back into the repair areas, ripped down for troubleshooting, put back together and pushed through the “Care line” area by over zealous final line superintendents who want them on the Rail head companies books and out of the plant inventory. Believe me the final scheduled shipment date will be met,

Stay away for these last vehicles. This advice is from one who has been part of many GM model assembly plant “build outs”

SlickCityStan
05-01-11, 04:25 PM
once again the American Corporate Entity shouts,"SUCKER!!". As they chant the corporate mantra, "There's one born every minute!".

onlyuscars
05-01-11, 05:05 PM
you're right XTS not ATS, to replace STS.........interesting 'build out' read above!

EChas3
05-01-11, 08:05 PM
KR - You may be right but I don't buy it. If the cars don't pass already defined QC policies, the dealers are just going to have to fix them anyway. The cost to GM will be far higher to do as you suggest than maintain the supply of quality components through the next year or two. Many states have lemon laws that do deter such scummy practices.

This forum proves that a significant proportion of STS buyers will not tolerate flaws while under warranty. Parts will be available for a while; especially those known with high failure rates. GM has this down to a science. However, I would expect to see the end of CPO to limit GM laiability and the price of extended warranties can be expected to increase as replacement parts grow scarce.

Regardless, I'd never buy a STS model later than 2010; remembering, "I could've had a V8!"

mbnv992
05-01-11, 09:37 PM
With the upcoming XTS, I plan on getting a nice black 2009 STS-V in a few years. By then, they should be somewhat down in price (and providing that gas isn't $12.00 a gallon by then lol), and one should get great deals on the STS-V models.
Heck, even now I see many on E-bay (2008's mainly) going for the low $30,000 range.

JimmyH
05-01-11, 09:44 PM
I think the CTSV2 killed the resale of the STS-V.

chazglenn3
05-01-11, 09:59 PM
Works for me...the cheaper the better! I'm a huge fan of Cadillac depreciation.

carter's_sts
05-01-11, 11:12 PM
Works for me...the cheaper the better! I'm a huge fan of Cadillac depreciation.

Me too. I would definitely get a V, but I just can't justify not having AWD in my climate. If I had the room, I might have a V for the nice weather and my STS 4 for the winter.

mbnv992
05-01-11, 11:16 PM
I think the CTSV2 killed the resale of the STS-V.

Without a doubt.

That's great news for us folks who want a nice used STS-V ! :) :)

Also, with the upcoming XTS more than likely not getting a V8 (just a V6 AWD and FWD / Hybrid models coming out), maybe the STS and DTS with the V8 Northstars will be a bit more sought after ? Then again, if gas keeps getting any higher, we may all sell our V8's for a Prius lol

JimmyH
05-02-11, 01:48 PM
And I bet the STS-V is cheaper to own than an M or AMG.

EChas3
05-02-11, 08:37 PM
Then again, if gas keeps getting any higher, we may all sell our V8's for a Prius lol

By the nature of gas refueling, high gas prices make a big emotional impact. As the display flies by $50 (or more) we feel it more acutely than the much bigger price tag when we buy a car. The Prius (or other hydrids) aren't always a great value.

Even with tax incentives, the higher purchase price may not really offset by the effeciency. A couple years ago I figured based on $5 per gallon gas any found The break-even was at 200,000 miles. What's a set of batteries cost?

Besides, who wants a car that gets passed by bicycles?

JimmyH
05-02-11, 09:14 PM
My V8 powered sports car costs me ~$2200 in gas per year over a Cruze Eco. In my opinion, it's cheap entertainment. Although, the Cruze is pretty nice. I am starting to think it might make a good winter car.

onlyuscars
06-07-11, 03:32 PM
I just spent nearly twice as much in gas on a long road trip by choice for the comfort of a V8 Cadillac.....I arrived fresher and more rested than my frugal mini cooper s clubman - rattled and buzzed. Passengers also less cranky!

onlyuscars
06-07-11, 03:40 PM
P.S>. Has anyone driven the cruze? The eco has peaked my interest....42mpg <$20,000, 1.4l turbo 6-speed - fun and practical? will dump the mini cooper clubman s and get back to US cars, my first non USA car hasn't wowed or disappointed

JimmyH
06-07-11, 04:01 PM
Once the rentafleets get stocked up with them, I want to rent one for the weekend. They say it's one of the better handling econoboxes out there. And the best ride quality of them all.

turnne
06-11-11, 12:09 PM
By the nature of gas refueling, high gas prices make a big emotional impact. As the display flies by $50 (or more) we feel it more acutely than the much bigger price tag when we buy a car. The Prius (or other hydrids) aren't always a great value.

Even with tax incentives, the higher purchase price may not really offset by the effeciency. A couple years ago I figured based on $5 per gallon gas any found The break-even was at 200,000 miles. What's a set of batteries cost?

Besides, who wants a car that gets passed by bicycles?

Clearly you were figuring lost resale vale in your equation....that will cost you more than the gas will unless you drive a ton of miles each day of city driving

As for being passed by a bicycle ..really?

There are lot of vehicles out there today you might want to check out

The BMW 3 series diesel...a buddy of mine in Houston Texas just bought one because he has a long commute to work
he says it will burn rubber if you turn the traction off...and it gets 35mpg
There is also the Mercedes E class diesel...and the Mercedes S class Hybrid...and Lexus LS Hybrid

All great cars...and differing levels of luxury

As for batteries...aren't the warranties like 10-15 years?

Think about what a 10 year old Cadillac is worth...how much would you invest in it?


Warren

rnkath08
06-11-11, 02:34 PM
I love my 06, put her away every winter, she just is hitting 34k miles, going to just keep her nice and solid and drive her into the ground, no need to go to the 08 or the V series for me, I really am in love with my ride. Shame Caddy didn't see the need to keep making them, I think the size, the lines and the general useability should've made them tweak and continue...but what do I know?

JimmyH
06-11-11, 02:55 PM
I highly doubt gm would discontinue it if it was selling well. They are not going to keep producing a car they have to heavily discount to move.

turnne
06-11-11, 06:05 PM
I highly doubt gm would discontinue it if it was selling well. They are not going to keep producing a car they have to heavily discount to move.

thank you

I am not sure why most here can't grasp that its almost always about $$
GM is not a not for profit organization

I would love to know if the 2005+ STS ever turned a profit for them
The way it had to be discounted to sell...and those highly subsidized leases with cars coming back after 36 months worth less than 50% of sticker

Hopefully the "new" GM can understand bottom line $$
As I said before ..IMO..the CTS and Escalade were carrying the division....while the STS and DTS had to be impacting it negatively

Perhaps that the reason they have so many CTS and Escalade variants


Warren

JimmyH
06-12-11, 01:28 PM
I think the DTS will be missed. I supposed they are not making many high dollar sales on it. But considering the platform it shares with several other cars, I would have thought it would have paid for itself by now. The DTS is actually a very nice car for the money. And I see ALOT of them around here in Chicagoland. It may not have alot of techno-gadgetry, but it does have alot of luxury for just over $40k. It's not my kind of car, but after having a couple as loaners, I can see why folks like them.

AirForce81
06-12-11, 04:13 PM
I'm curious as to what you guys think. If GM would have dumped more $$ into marketing these vehicles, do you think it would have helped the STS? I just wondering because I get questions from people when they finally realize that I drive an STS and not a CTS. To the untrained eye everyone thinks the STS is a CTS. People become interested and want to know the difference between the two. Also when someone who has never been in the STS gets in mine, they are completely in aww. Then when I tell them how much I paid for it, they cannot believe it. I just think if people knew what the STS was, I think it would have been a hit. It seems to me people are uneducated when it comes to the STS and the blame has to fall partly on GM for not marketing this vehicle...just my opinion.

JimmyH
06-12-11, 05:34 PM
I think the STS was just in that bad place where it is too small and inexpensive to be a full size lux sedan and too big too expensive to be a sport sedan.

turnne
06-13-11, 01:55 PM
I think the STS was just in that bad place where it is too small and inexpensive to be a full size lux sedan and too big too expensive to be a sport sedan.

Not sure about that
The MB E Class,BMW 5 Series, Lexus GS460 and Infiniti M are all about the same size and price as the STS( V8)


Warren

turnne
06-13-11, 01:59 PM
I think the DTS will be missed. I supposed they are not making many high dollar sales on it. But considering the platform it shares with several other cars, I would have thought it would have paid for itself by now. The DTS is actually a very nice car for the money. And I see ALOT of them around here in Chicagoland. It may not have alot of techno-gadgetry, but it does have alot of luxury for just over $40k. It's not my kind of car, but after having a couple as loaners, I can see why folks like them.

I somewhat agree
But the same would apply to the platform that Ford built the Crown Vic/Marquis/Towncar from
Very cheap to buy as used cars...the darling of rental fleets..and supposedly very reliable

The question is now
what make is going to fill the pipeline for full size luxury rental cars?

Or is the FWD variant of the Lincoln( Ford Taurus) enough to satisfy this?


Warren

Jesda
06-14-11, 05:24 AM
The Cruze is unexpectedly nice. GM really did a good job of compensating for decades of the J-body.

The STS had the same problem as the Audi A6, too in between to develop its own character. Hopefully it keeps resale value low for bottom-end buyers like me.

turnne
06-14-11, 08:38 PM
= Hopefully it keeps resale value low for bottom-end buyers like me.

The resale has been low on these cars for 25 years.....when I was younger and first started to do the math on cars I figured that one out very quickly.
Some say in the 1970's resale was low as well...I don't know

Anyway...why would you expect it to be anything buy what it has been?


Warren

jmildoc
01-30-12, 02:29 PM
i would much rather pick up a used 2007+ STS V especially since you can find them for low 20's. i can fit all my kids, groceries and have cheaper insurance rates, all while keeping up with a corvette. come on!! find a better deal!

MARSTS
01-30-12, 03:27 PM
They say that the ATS will be the prime competitor of the 300 series BMWs. I saw it at the Detroit auto show and I doubt if any serious STS owner will likely pick up this smaller than CTS version. XTS is replacing the STS and DTS.

JimmyH
01-30-12, 05:40 PM
Don't forget, there is full size Cadillac coming in a few years to compete with the 7 series and S class. The XTS is more to compete with Lexus, I think.

Smiling Jack
01-30-12, 10:12 PM
I presume there are no design or styling changes from 2011.

So are they going to call it a 2012 0r sell it as a new 2011?

I do not see a 2012 STS listed or advertized anywhere.

EChas3
01-30-12, 11:03 PM
I think Sal is maintaining the fiction of a 2012 model. The curtain has closed on the STS. For whatever the reasons, it never attracted the interest of the market and was never really marketed to succeed. Some of its promising technology wilted in the real world (VR anyone?) What sales it did generate were greatly due to incredible lease deals, heavy discounting and used car price supports like CPO warranties. But it did provide a great value for many of us Cadillac loyalists, here.

The engineers did a facelift for 2008 but GM was pinching pennies by the time the newer cars came off the line. They cut some corners on the new DI V6 and never really optimized the car. Late in its run, the high-end optional features were made ala cart, but the end was in sight. By 2011, the costly to build Northstar was no longer even available.

JimmyH
01-31-12, 12:19 AM
I think I read somewhere that they were going to make a 2012 STS, but then decided not to.

orange57
02-03-12, 01:04 AM
I don't think many people know what they are, and I sure don't see them on the road that much. I get many compliments on mine when friends or family see it. I don't know that there are too many luxury 300hp V8 sedans you can pick up a few years old for 14K. I dig mine, and i'm very pleased with my purchase. The only real option I wish it came with, is a manual trans. That would make it 100% perfect for me :)

chazglenn3
02-03-12, 03:40 PM
Yeah...I find myself manually shifting my car often...it's especially nice to have the tach and gear in front of me on the HUD :D