: Anyone else in favor of Inline six, rear wheel drive luxury cars?



orconn
04-21-11, 03:20 PM
If we have to go the six cylinder route, I am all in favor of Inline-sixes as opposed to the omnipresent V-6's we seem to be saddled with. The I-6 driving the rear wheels makes for a smooth running better balanced configuration that the present FWD V-6, which at best is only a adequate in a luxury car, can't touch. The FWD set ups only real advantage has been increased interior room. But with most luxury cars coming with front and rear center consoles the advantage of a flat floor has long passed into history.

For many years Jaguar, Rolls, Mercedes got along fine with very good straight 6's. Even the uber heavy brick's that Mercedes has put out over their years have been adequately powered by straight sixes. BMW certainly has won a strong following and respect for their I-6 powered cars (many prefer them to that company's V-8s). So maybe it's time for Cadillac to break with tradition and put together a really smooth rear drive I-6 as replacement for their rougher and lower torque V-6's.

gdwriter
04-21-11, 04:51 PM
GM had a fine DOHC inline six used in the TrailBlazer and its variants. Since a straight six is longer than a V6, I'm assuming it's a packaging issue for putting it in cars, not that it has stopped BMW. The Z3 I spent a weekend with two summers ago is probably the most fun I've ever had behind the wheel. All the accolades the BMW six has racked up are deserved.

I drove Chad's S320, and even as heavy as it was, the six did not struggle to move it with alacrity.

drewsdeville
04-21-11, 05:01 PM
BMW certainly has won a strong following and respect for their I-6 powered cars (many prefer them to that company's V-8s).


The Z3 I spent a weekend with two summers ago is probably the most fun I've ever had behind the wheel. All the accolades the BMW six has racked up are deserved.


You two certainly would not like the sound of this article I read a while back :ill:

http://www.dailytech.com/Fuel+Efficiency+is+King+Turbo+Four+to+Replace+BMWs +Naturally+Aspirated+Inline6/article20779.htm

Personally, I also prefer I-6's over V8's as well. Silky smooth, (I think) they sound better when properly piped, and they are usually fantastically simple to perform maintenance on in comparison to a V-type engine, whose wide geometry often makes for tight packaging even in RWD applications.

gary88
04-21-11, 11:16 PM
I wouldn't have it any other way :cool2:

The smoothness is unlike anything else I've driven thanks to the motor being naturally balanced.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgveVLqGn0M&feature=related

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-22-11, 02:13 AM
I loved my little 3.2L I-6 in that S320 I had. 228hp and 232 lb/ft for 4500 lbs and it never felt underpowered. It wasn't overly powerful by any means, but it saw 130mph a couple of times, had a nice flat torque curve, got decent mileage, was super smooth, easy to work on and had a nice melodic sound to it.

ben.gators
04-22-11, 03:03 AM
In the lack of V-8 I prefer I-6 over V-6! In general I-6 is stronger and smoother than a V-6. So why not?

Aron9000
04-22-11, 05:02 AM
GM had a fine DOHC inline six used in the TrailBlazer and its variants. Since a straight six is longer than a V6, I'm assuming it's a packaging issue for putting it in cars, not that it has stopped BMW. The Z3 I spent a weekend with two summers ago is probably the most fun I've ever had behind the wheel. All the accolades the BMW six has racked up are deserved.

I drove Chad's S320, and even as heavy as it was, the six did not struggle to move it with alacrity.

Yeah those Atlas inline sixes in the trailblazer were the cat's meow. They made almost as much power as the optional 5.3 v8's you could get in those trucks. Also sucked down just as much fuel, fuel economy in a Trailblazer is pretty comparable to a larger v8 Tahoe.

I've driven a few Lexus products with the 2JZ, those things are so incredibly silky smooth and quiet. Gunning it at 6,000rpms feels just as smooth as idle.

C&C
04-22-11, 10:17 AM
Kudos to the I-6: (if you've got the space for it, it's the better engine)

I've still got my '04 Olds Bravada with the 4.2 L straight 6; smooth, powerful and not bad on gas (for a 4400 lb vehicle). I get 16/23. At a steady 55mph I'm topping 25 mpg.

Stingroo
04-22-11, 10:32 AM
I've still got my '04 Olds Bravada with the 4.2 L straight 6; smooth, powerful and not bad on gas (for a 4400 lb vehicle). I get 16/23. At a steady 55mph I'm topping 25 mpg.

My wagon with the same weight, 1.5 liters more displacement, and two extra cylinders gets the same exact fuel mileage.


Yay progress. :hmm:

concorso
04-22-11, 11:54 AM
I like V8's and I6's. I6's do drive great, and generally sound better then V6's... The new G37S Coupe sounds great, tho. Id still take a V8 given the choice, tho.

drewsdeville
04-22-11, 05:43 PM
My wagon with the same weight, 1.5 liters more displacement, and two extra cylinders gets the same exact fuel mileage.


Yay progress. :hmm:

Don't forget, even with the extra cylinders and displacement, your car is short on power vs the 275 that I-6 puts out, you lack AWD which he most likely has, and the Bravada is pushing a lot more wind than you at it's ride height.

orconn
04-22-11, 05:57 PM
For me the space issue with an I-6 is not an issue; I like the "long hood short rear deck" design silhouette and since I always have cent consoles anyway more floor space isn't an issue. The DOHC straight sixes that I had in most Of the jags that I have had provided very good performance when I wanted or needed it, while being silky smooth in every day driving. The V-8's I have had were not as smooth as the I6's.

johnny kannapo
04-22-11, 06:59 PM
The inline six has gone the way of the horse for a reason. BMW is the only 6 that is exceptional but not still subject to the disadvantages of a massive crankshaft. They are heavily engineered & way too expensive to market to the masses.

The way of the horse
http://youtu.be/30g05_elqlA


The American way
http://youtu.be/0IxSeA4mG10

I needed to add this 20 seconds
http://youtu.be/g365MF1lThc

OffThaHorseCEO
04-22-11, 07:44 PM
Don't forget, even with the extra cylinders and displacement, your car is short on power vs the 275 that I-6 puts out, you lack AWD which he most likely has, and the Bravada is pushing a lot more wind than you at it's ride height.

how dare you question the awesomeness of the wagon?!

out of all those negatives all i saw was "Bravada is pushing alot more wind due to ride height!"

hueterm
04-22-11, 07:51 PM
Because it's a B-Body, which like a Panther, Drew always has to try and run into the ground.

They're way less cool that some early '90s Escort or Corolla...

hueterm
04-22-11, 07:57 PM
If we have to go the six cylinder route, I am all in favor of Inline-sixes as opposed to the omnipresent V-6's we seem to be saddled with. The I-6 driving the rear wheels makes for a smooth running better balanced configuration that the present FWD V-6, which at best is only a adequate in a luxury car, can't touch. The FWD set ups only real advantage has been increased interior room. But with most luxury cars coming with front and rear center consoles the advantage of a flat floor has long passed into history.

For many years Jaguar, Rolls, Mercedes got along fine with very good straight 6's. Even the uber heavy brick's that Mercedes has put out over their years have been adequately powered by straight sixes. BMW certainly has won a strong following and respect for their I-6 powered cars (many prefer them to that company's V-8s). So maybe it's time for Cadillac to break with tradition and put together a really smooth rear drive I-6 as replacement for their rougher and lower torque V-6's.

They'd have to spend a buck to do that. Plus, we'll be lucky if they're not all in 4-bangers if the ecocult has its way.

I've never driven a BMW I-6, but from the extent that everyone raves about them -- there has to be something to it.

However, they need a N*II worse, IMO...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-22-11, 08:09 PM
The only negative I have about the Atlas 4.2L I-6 is the fact that it doesn't sound very good like most inline sixes do....it's a very "blah" sounding engine.

drewsdeville
04-22-11, 08:16 PM
how dare you question the awesomeness of the wagon?!

out of all those negatives all i saw was "Bravada is pushing alot more wind due to ride height!"

Whether you consider them negative or positive is at your discretion, not mine. The three points are merely an efficiency comparison between the two.

Stingroo
04-22-11, 08:55 PM
No the aerodynamics is a good point for sure.

Serious question though: how does AWD affect fuel mileage, other than weight (which since they're about the same, wouldn't be much of a factor would it?). Is it more unsprung weight vs a RWD setup or something? I'm not really familiar - I live in FL :lol:

drewsdeville
04-22-11, 10:11 PM
Most of the difference is from the extra mechanical drag through more moving parts. An AWD system delivers torque to all wheels at the same time, but at varying rates to make it less detectable from behind the wheel.

Now, the gap in mpgs between 2wd and awd has certainly closed with the implementation of extra control through the use of pcm controlled clutch packs and viscous couplings, but you are still always turning another axle over 2wd. If you look up a vehicle with optional AWD, the AWD variant is almost always rated 1-2mpg's less in all driving conditions.

Somewhat off topic: My "new" (a while ago) job may offer $400/mo and mileage pay to purchase my own truck for work so they don't have to expand their fleet of Silverados. I've been eyeing up the I-6 Trailblazers...

Stingroo
04-22-11, 10:21 PM
Makes sense.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-22-11, 10:47 PM
Somewhat off topic: My "new" (a while ago) job may offer $400/mo and mileage pay to purchase my own truck for work so they don't have to expand their fleet of Silverados. I've been eyeing up the I-6 Trailblazers...

Sweet deal!

hueterm
04-22-11, 10:52 PM
Make sure to check your insurance coverage, that using it for work won't be an issue.

drewsdeville
04-23-11, 12:36 AM
Make sure to check your insurance coverage, that using it for work won't be an issue.

Yeah, I'll start looking deeper into everything when the time comes. For now, just keeping everything in the back of my mind.

Really, I'd rather not acquire another vehicle, especially a truck. I don't have any interest in a truck outside of work (except for my '66 project, whose age disqualifies it from being eligible to use for the company). The time savings make it appealing though. For the next few years, I'll be working on the I-94 project between the IL border and Milwaukee. I live only minutes from ground zero, but live 40 minutes, one way, the WRONG way, to "headquarters". As it is now, I have to drive to headquarters in the car, load up the truck with equipment, and pretty much trace most of my route back home to get to the job site - eating at least an hour and a half of my morning. Ditto for evening when I have to head back, unload, and drive home.

But back on topic, the I-6 is really something I'm considering for all of those qualities I mentioned earlier. For me, when an I-6 is available, the other options pale in comparison.

And yeah, I agree with Chad on the sound of the 4200 Vortec. Must be the way they designed the stock exhaust because I think they sound pretty good when opened up:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaPnBWZoqfQ&feature=related

orconn
04-23-11, 12:51 AM
There's no reason why an I-6 can't sound pretty good with a proper tuned exhaust system. I never heard anyone complain about how an Jaguar E-type sounded back in the day when exhaust note was very important.

orconn
04-23-11, 12:57 AM
Yeah, I'll start looking deeper into everything when the time comes. For now, just keeping everything in the back of my mind.

Really, I'd rather not acquire another vehicle, especially a truck. I don't have any interest in a truck outside of work (except for my '66 project, whose age disqualifies it from being eligible to use for the company). The time savings make it appealing though. For the next few years, I'll be working on the I-94 project between the IL border and Milwaukee. I live only minutes from ground zero, but live 40 minutes, one way, the WRONG way, to "headquarters". As it is now, I have to drive to headquarters in the car, load up the truck with equipment, and pretty much trace most of my route back home to get to the job site - eating at least an hour and a half of my morning. Ditto for evening when I have to head back, unload, and drive home.

But back on topic, the I-6 is really something I'm considering for all of those qualities I mentioned earlier. For me, when an I-6 is available, the other options pale in comparison.

And yeah, I agree with Chad on the sound of the 4200 Vortec. Must be the way they designed the stock exhaust because I think they sound pretty good when opened up:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaPnBWZoqfQ&feature=related

Be sure to check out the tax ramifications of this subsidized ownership scheme of your company's truck plan. If your primary work site is close to your house and your travel to the headquarters is irregular and part of your job your mileage their is probably deductible. I would believe your cost of in excess of the companies contribution would also be deductible, but check all the ramifications out before you make a decision.

drewsdeville
04-23-11, 01:19 AM
Be sure to check out the tax ramifications of this subsidized ownership scheme of your company's truck plan. If your primary work site is close to your house and your travel to the headquarters is irregular and part of your job your mileage their is probably deductible. I would believe your cost of in excess of the companies contribution would also be deductible, but check all the ramifications out before you make a decision.

Yeah, it'll be a while, but thanks.

If I can make it through the season taking THEIR vehicle home, the whole thing isn't gonna happen. That's gonna get harder though as the season unfolds. Really, even the current situation isn't terrible or abnormal. As soon as I get to headquarters I'm on the clock... and there are a lot of people out there with morning commutes longer than 40 minutes. It's hard to explain without describing a typical day in detail, but the company buying me a truck will make things more convenient for both me and them - it would eliminate the need for them to pay me the extra travel time, to load and unload every day, it would free up some of the fleet, and it would eliminate my morning commute, meaning I have more time to make money. So the whole thing definitely has my attention. Just gotta do some homework.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-23-11, 09:14 AM
I'd love another inline six.....trouble is finding a car that I like that carries it and makes for a good daily driver during the winters. The S-Class was perfect in the snow because it was so heavy, didn't have a ton of power to get you in trouble and had a suspension designed by the gods in stuttgart to handle the Alps and snowy northern European climate. Most other cars with I-6's are smaller and RWD, and the only alternative I can think of right now that meets the AWD + I-6 critera would be an AWD 3 Series.

Stingroo
04-23-11, 11:27 AM
Nissan R34.


Rob a bank now.

Destroyer
04-24-11, 01:36 AM
My experiences with I-6 motors were all good really. '87 Mercedes 300E (2 of them actually)and my '97 S320 were fantastic motors that really felt strong on the top end despite actual hp numbers. Both were pushing quite a bit of weight in large sedans and both performed exceptionally. Then there were the slant 6's and 60's Ford I-6 motors which performed poorly as far as excitement goes but were EXTREMELY reliable............a trait we rarely hear of in a Cadillac forum these days. The older I-6 motors found in 50's and 60's cars were abrasive. The didn't rev high and were dull but the foreign jobs were exciting, efficient and all around good!!!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-24-11, 10:01 AM
I think the Ford 4.9 (300) I-6 is generally regarded as the king of torque and long term durability as far as I-6 motors go. It makes even the Jeep 4.0L look weak by comparison.

96Fleetwood
04-24-11, 10:20 AM
The 2011 BMW 740i/Li is a RWD luxury car with a inline twin turbo 6 cylinder.. 315 hp.

:cool2:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE1ngRu6wps