: What type of a car is missing from the marketplace today?



orconn
04-15-11, 05:53 PM
It seems that the types of cars offered today pretty much covers the spectrum of what's need in the marketplace. Are their niches left unfilled?

hueterm
04-15-11, 07:05 PM
Personal luxury coupe...like the Eldorado or Riviera. NOT like the CTS coupe or any of the other Infiniti G rice imitators.

Large station wagon. The Flex pulls it off -- GM should be able to as well.

gary88
04-15-11, 08:01 PM
We need more diesel options in the US.

V-Eight
04-15-11, 10:41 PM
Gonna say the same. We need a BIG luxury coupe.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-15-11, 11:43 PM
Big luxury coupe. An American version of the CL Mercedes.

JimmyH
04-16-11, 12:08 AM
More uber-minivans. The R-class is getting lonely.

Aron9000
04-16-11, 03:56 AM
We need more diesel options in the US.

Agreed!!!!

I also feel like we need more $15,000 50mpg econoboxes. We had them back in the 80's and early 90's. Seems like now days if you want 50mpg you gotta shell out $25k for a Prius, Civic Hybrid, or a TDI VW Golf/Jetta.

They sell cars like this by the bucketload in Europe, but the closest thing we get in the States is the VW TDI Golf, which is considered quite a step up in terms of power, space, and luxury over something like a VW Polo. The Golf is also quite a step down in terms of MPG as well.

What about the great American luxury cruiser?? Where is it Cadillac? Lincoln? We don't even offer anything comparable to an A6, 5 series, E class, Infiniti M, or Jag XF. Much less anything comparable to a Jag XJ, S-Class, Lexus LS, BMW 7 Series, or an A8.

Same thing with the great American luxo coupe and convertible. Where is our Benz SL, BMW 6 series, Jag XK coupe or convertible, Benz CL, Lexus SC? The CTS coupe is a stunning design but falls way short on interior appointments when you look at an Audi A5 or Benz E-class coupe.

I also feel that car height station wagons/hatchbacks are way under-represented. Seems like de-rigour is to sit up high in your "crossover" with AWD while sucking gas down with a big v6 engine. A traditional FWD or RWD wagon would give you similar space and better mileage if you could give up your vanity to the latest trends.

Although I guess its better than sitting up high and sucking even more gas down with your v8, body on frame SUV that was popular for the last 15-20 years. At least those were cool because you really could tow something with them and they were at the very least competent in an off road situation. Some of those rigs were downright unstoppable off road with the right tires on them.:rant::rant::rant:

Sevillian273
04-16-11, 04:37 AM
Pontiacs.

Stingroo
04-16-11, 04:09 PM
A REAL station wagon. Crossovers don't cut it for some people - sorry guys.

Diesel EVERYTHING. Why do we not have this? Cruze Eco? Should have been a diesel. Cadillac ATS? won't have one, but needs a diesel option. Escalade? COME THE F*CK ON, IT'S A TRUCK! At least make it an option.

V-Eight
04-16-11, 04:29 PM
Remember last time Cadillac tried diesel?

drewsdeville
04-16-11, 04:30 PM
I also feel like we need more $15,000 50mpg econoboxes. We had them back in the 80's and early 90's. Seems like now days if you want 50mpg you gotta shell out $25k for a Prius, Civic Hybrid, or a TDI VW Golf/Jetta.


Yes. Think Toyota Tercel.

Where are the stripped, crank windowed, manual lock, vinyl seat, no AC, AM/FM radio (maybe) REAL economy cars... Real economy cars aren't just compact or good on fuel, they have an overall low cost of ownership which is impossible to attain when initial buy-in is too high. Most current economy cars are hardly a value when they are nearly as pricey as the midsized model right next to it.

King-German-Fool
04-16-11, 05:01 PM
Big luxury coupe. An American version of the CL Mercedes.

Agree to that.
But the CL isn't big.

Caddyshack100
04-16-11, 05:58 PM
There needs to be a C body size car with the 5.3, Caddy of course with a Buick badge engineered version that will be completely unique to each car line, include also a diesel option that will be the SAME price as the Gas engine. Have all wheel drive for us in the north end of the world. Keep price to under 80k and 40 k for the buick and this would be a great car.

Stingroo
04-16-11, 06:00 PM
What you meant to say was: CTS needs a diesel option that costs the same as the 3.6.

Jesda
04-16-11, 09:01 PM
A CTS that competes with the BMW 335d would be pretty awesome, especially after seeing the video and review Gary Eighty Eight posted of his BMW loaner.

I would like to see Australian-like Utes, cars with pickup beds that combine sporty driving with modest utility.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-16-11, 09:08 PM
Where are the stripped, crank windowed, manual lock, vinyl seat, no AC, AM/FM radio (maybe) REAL economy cars... o it.

Walk into your local Kia dealership and drive home in a new Rio. You can get a base Rio without power steering and a radio.

Sevillian273
04-16-11, 09:26 PM
Where are the stripped, crank windowed, manual lock, vinyl seat, no AC, AM/FM radio (maybe) REAL economy cars...

YES. The 4cyl/5spd, 'point A to point B', git er done, bullshit free, sub $10K, econ-o-box sedan. I could use one right about now. Paid $70 to fill the tank today.

Stingroo
04-16-11, 09:51 PM
What Kia used to do, basically....

Destroyer
04-16-11, 10:58 PM
It seems that the types of cars offered today pretty much covers the spectrum of what's need in the marketplace. Are their niches left unfilled?

Yes there are. Super cheesy, over the top, magnificently gawdy cars. We used to call them Cadillacs.

johnny kannapo
04-17-11, 01:33 AM
Pontiacs & Oldsmobiles

ga_etc
04-17-11, 03:12 AM
The 4cyl/5spd, 'point A to point B', git er done, bullshit free, sub $10K, econ-o-box sedan.

http://www.lincah.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/2010-Hyundai-Accent-Front-Angle-View-800x525.jpg

Destroyer
04-17-11, 11:20 PM
Pontiacs & Oldsmobiles

I miss both nameplates but over the last 25 years or so that's all they were "nameplates". It's better to burn out than fade away. It is unfortunate that these former icons both died but they really weren't doing much good anyway. GM could have kept their identities intact but didn't. They were just rebadged, afterthought junk in the end. Too bad. I always had thing for Oldsmobiles (classic ones).

cadillac kevin
04-18-11, 12:07 AM
astro van.
holds the family like a real wagon, has the storage capabilities of a box van, can hold several 4x8 sheets of plywood (or 2x4's or drywall, etc) , has the power of a V8 with V6 economy, plus you could get them in AWD for the northernersand rwd for the rest of us. plus they're more bad ass than some wimpy honda accord based pseudo-van

drewsdeville
04-18-11, 12:11 AM
astro van.
holds the family like a real wagon, has the storage capabilities of a box van, can hold several 4x8 sheets of plywood (or 2x4's or drywall, etc) , has the power of a V8 with V6 economy, plus you could get them in AWD for the northernersand rwd for the rest of us. plus they're more bad ass than some wimpy honda accord based pseudo-van

V6 fuel economy? In which config?

Stingroo
04-18-11, 12:12 AM
None. I promise. lol

V6 engine size? Sure. V6 economy? Nein.

However - a modern astro could do well with a 3.6 base engine and an optional 5.3.

:thumbsup:

JimmyH
04-18-11, 01:31 PM
diesel :lol:

look at the performance (and cost while you're at it) of a 335i vs 335d. you guise can keep ur deisels.

gdwriter
04-18-11, 02:02 PM
Where are the stripped, crank windowed, manual lock, vinyl seat, no AC, AM/FM radio (maybe) REAL economy cars...Gone because nobody wants to drive a penalty box. Except for you and some masochists.

I'd rather buy a decently equipped, decent driving 1-2 year old car for the same price as some stripped Kia or the new Jetta. And it's not just the lack of amenities, but also the obvious cheapness in the interior materials and that tell-tale tinny sound when you close the doors. No thanks.

JimmyH
04-18-11, 02:15 PM
Gone because nobody wants to drive a penalty box.

potd

JimmyH
04-18-11, 02:17 PM
Actually, my buddy who drives an Elantra would buy one of those. He is pissed that he can no longer buy a sub-$10k stripped-down runabout.

orconn
04-18-11, 02:23 PM
Wait, if gas goes to $6.00 the Chinese will be sending their Cherry's!

drewsdeville
04-18-11, 03:02 PM
Gone because nobody wants to drive a penalty box. Except for you and some masochists.

I'd rather buy a decently equipped, decent driving 1-2 year old car for the same price as some stripped Kia or the new Jetta. And it's not just the lack of amenities, but also the obvious cheapness in the interior materials and that tell-tale tinny sound when you close the doors. No thanks.


:thepan:

http://www.funnyforumpics.com//forums/this-thread-sucks/3/Care-Wilie.jpg

Jesda
04-18-11, 07:03 PM
Intentionally under-optioned cars like the $9999 Versa (no radio, no AC) exist so the manufacturer can advertise a lower initial MSRP. They aren't produced in large quantities because most people avoid them. They get shuffled around from dealer to dealer until someone finally shows up and takes it.

Power windows are cheaper to produce and manufacture than crank windows due to their simplicity and because of economies of scale. The world advances little by little each day, making what used to be high-tech stuff as affordable as their low-tech predecessors.

The exception to this? Dedicated track cars. They get stripped bare and have their seats replaced anyway, but a $9k Versa is a poor starting point for any kind of track performance.

No, the trend going forward is for cheap economy cars to have many of the comforts and amenities of luxury cars, allowing people to save money and save fuel without feeling like they've made poor choices in life that forced them to downgrade their vehicle.

orconn
04-18-11, 07:46 PM
Intentionally under-optioned cars like the $9999 Versa (no radio, no AC) exist so the manufacturer can advertise a lower initial MSRP. They aren't produced in large quantities because most people avoid them. They get shuffled around from dealer to dealer until someone finally shows up and takes it.

Power windows are cheaper to produce and manufacture than crank windows due to their simplicity and because of economies of scale. The world advances little by little each day, making what used to be high-tech stuff as affordable as their low-tech predecessors.

The exception to this? Dedicated track cars. They get stripped bare and have their seats replaced anyway, but a $9k Versa is a poor starting point for any kind of track performance.

No, the trend going forward is for cheap economy cars to have many of the comforts and amenities of luxury cars, allowing people to save money and save fuel without feeling like they've made poor choices in life that forced them to downgrade their vehicle.

Back in the late sixties when Toyota started washing up on these shores, their claim to fame was "a fully equipped Toyota Carona for the price of a stripped VW Bug." And it was true, the fully equipped Corona coupes and sedans came with the radio and heater standard which were additional cost accessories on the VW .... neither car offered an automatic transmission til later .... for a few hundred less than the VW.
Volkswagen was really Toyota and Datsun's first conquest in the U.S.

DouglasJRizzo
04-19-11, 08:33 AM
To me, what's missing is a full sized line up. A coupe, sedan, wagon, all rear drive and body on frame. Something that could bridge the gap between SUV/Truck and front/AWD sedans.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-19-11, 06:14 PM
I'll agree that we're missing another "Astro". A truck based van that isn't terribly large, nor much longer than a minivan, but with the power to tow and haul more than a regular car-based minivan can.

JimmyH
04-19-11, 07:54 PM
I think cafe 2020 assures those vehicles are not coming back. Manufactures are not going to spend their low mileage percentage on anything but high profit cars.

EChas3
04-19-11, 10:03 PM
To me, what's missing is a full sized line up. A coupe, sedan, wagon, all rear drive and body on frame. Something that could bridge the gap between SUV/Truck and front/AWD sedans.

Dittos. I want a big sedan, not a pickup.

gdwriter
04-25-11, 12:24 PM
Saw a story today on Jalopnik (http://jalopnik.com/#!5795300) that the sub-$10,000 car is dead, now that Nissan has brought out a new version of the Versa at $10,700:


With its demise comes the death of the sub-$10,000 new car. Here's why that's a good thing. The $9,990 version was nothing more than a gimmick.

It didn't come with A/C, it had the not-particularly-efficient and smaller 1.6-liter fourbanger, and a cheap cloth interior. While a striped-down package on, say, a Ford Mustang, might interest enthusiasts, the idea of a stripped-down econobox was so out-of-touch with what mainstream car buyers were looking for, dealers were rarely willing to stock the car. You were more likely to find a golden ticket in a Wonka bar than to find someone selling a $9,990-out-the-door Versa. Top that off with a destination charge that raised the actual price to $10,740 and it's clear this was mostly a marketing exercise a trick to get people to go to Nissan dealerships.

But when they got there, they likely quickly left.

gothicaleigh
04-25-11, 03:06 PM
Dodge Magnum... they need to produce a Charger wagon (or a 300 estate like they have in europe). Best car idea Chrysler had in years and they killed it prematurely.

JimmyH
04-25-11, 03:30 PM
cuz they couldnt sell it

gothicaleigh
04-25-11, 04:13 PM
cuz they couldnt sell it

True, no wagon sells exceptionally well here, but the Magnum was basically a variant of their other cars (exterior design with the 300, interior with the Charger). They could have slapped another front on it to increase the parts sharing (like is done in europe with the 300 estate) or tossed a hatch on a charger if they wanted to keep it in the Dodge lineup.
It's cancellation really makes no sense to me at all, especially considering that they still offer a wagon version of the 300 for the european market.

I also think with current automotive trends, people are more accepting of wagon-like designs than they were even a few years ago (the added cargo space just makes sense in a large car design).

OffThaHorseCEO
04-25-11, 04:48 PM
flying cars

Jesda
04-25-11, 04:56 PM
Flying Magnums


If there was a Magnum being made today with a proper interior, it would be high on my "want" list.

JimmyH
04-25-11, 05:43 PM
vagon :drool:

http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/cars/ctsvwagon.jpg

JimmyH
04-25-11, 05:45 PM
(like is done in europe with the 300 estate)

I have seen one of those here. Someone in the general area of my office drives one. It's basically a magnum with a 300 front fascia. I don't know if he imported it, or if he just did a fascia transplant.

cadillac kevin
04-25-11, 06:15 PM
vagon :drool:

http://www.cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/cars/ctsvwagon.jpg

needs about 2 more feet in the ass end. and about a 1 foot longer wheelbase. and glass in the roof. then they need to rename it the vista cruiser (because the vista was the most badass wagon ever made.) :drool:

DouglasJRizzo
04-26-11, 08:38 AM
I'd love a station wagon. That's why I'm never selling my '96 Buick Estate Wagon. But for many people, they don't want to drive their "parents car" so they won't buy them. Funny, tho, they have no trouble buying a Volvo, BMW, or Saab version....

8th Day
04-26-11, 09:24 AM
I have seen one of those here. Someone in the general area of my office drives one. It's basically a magnum with a 300 front fascia. I don't know if he imported it, or if he just did a fascia transplant.

That's actually a fairly popular swap that the LX guys do. Find a friend with a 300/Magnum in the same color and trade parts. The 300s look especially sinister with the Maggie SRT front clip (not really a fan of the 300 front myself though).




*EDIT*
Like this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b291/bigal470/August%202010%20SRT8/CIMG2649.jpg

gothicaleigh
04-26-11, 09:33 AM
needs about 2 more feet in the ass end. and about a 1 foot longer wheelbase. and glass in the roof. then they need to rename it the vista cruiser (because the vista was the most badass wagon ever made.) :drool:

+1

...the CTS (while exceptionally cool in it's own right) is not quite large enough to fill the Magnum void. The outgoing STS would have made a great wagon in that size though. Or the last gen SRX, if it were lowered and had a few inches chopped off the greenhouse would have been a perfect Mag substitute.

Stingroo
04-26-11, 10:58 AM
THANK YOU.


People understand what the hell I've been saying since that damn car came out.


V-hatch is nice, but it's no wagon.

JimmyH
04-26-11, 12:15 PM
it hauls stuff - check

it hauls ass - check

good enough for me

johnny kannapo
04-26-11, 02:12 PM
Ash trays, With the rising cost of fuel all of a sudden my Pall Malls are more affordable at $5 a pack.

http://chicagobarry.com/uploads/2/7/4/0/2740125/3469381.jpg