: Northstar XV12 engine



vincentm
04-15-11, 01:45 PM
What happened to the work on this concept engine? Was the project scrapped by GM? 750HP? holy...

NHRATA01
04-15-11, 02:49 PM
Wasn't that the motor in the Cien concept car?

In any event, yes it was scrapped, as is the whole Northstar line now.

ThumperPup
04-16-11, 12:27 PM
what where the newer problems with the newer northstars that made them scrap them ?
can't be anyworst the the HG issue with the erly 90s threw 2005 can it ?

Speedygman
04-16-11, 08:42 PM
In 2002 I was a participant in the ISCA and the Riddler competition in Cobo Hall in Detroit, my friend Tom Wallace who had first hand engineering experience with the V12's. I told him I wanted to take one of the V12's and put in my Vicky and he said the used engine was a cost of 1.5 million and the one new engine would run about 2.5 million. End of story. Should have seen the V12 Suburban all wheel drive scoot along.

ThumperPup
04-16-11, 09:04 PM
dang that make me choke the price on the v12 holly shamolly

NHRATA01
04-19-11, 10:11 AM
what where the newer problems with the newer northstars that made them scrap them ?
can't be anyworst the the HG issue with the erly 90s threw 2005 can it ?

The Northstar was always slated to be killed off around '10 once the DTS went out of production. Honestly they're a problem-prone engine between the head sealing issues and oil leaks. At this point they've been around almost 20 years, and the R&D has to be about 25 years old. A lot has changed since then and my guess is GM did not feel it could be competitive to other luxury makes high end V8s. Perhaps there were limits in the design that would prevent now common additions such as DI, electronic lift control (think VTEC or VANOS and the like), and super/turbo charging (the blown XLR- and STS-V's were limited production, hand built engines and had to be very costly).

GM was in the process of designing a new high end DOHC to replace the Northstar for the upcoming DTS/STS replacement, but then they went bankrupt and the plans were scrapped. I'm guessing for higher power levels they will stick with a forced-induction 3.6 DI (Ford's 3.5 Ecoboost is making 350+hp and huge torque) and LSx motors for higher end vehicles needing over ~320hp.

cadi509
04-26-11, 11:22 PM
Yea its insane the amount of power being produces out of V6 engine's these days, but I like that V8 roar too much to pass it up

NHRATA01
04-28-11, 12:05 PM
You and me alike. I've never come across a V6 with a good exhaust note. I6 sure, but the V6's just groan.

maeng9981
04-29-11, 06:10 PM
Sure I4/V6 engines nowadays became powerful than past. See the 3.6DI for the example. But they still are somewhat less fun than V8; especially the absense of the V8 roar.

97EldoCoupe
05-01-11, 08:21 AM
And the Northstar has an exhaust note that makes anyone's ears tune in as the vehicle drives by- There are issues with the Northstar and always have been, but nothing that could not be improved/fixed.

Huge mistake on GM's part scrapping the Northstar. Redesign it, add whatever it needs, direct injection, forced induction on all of them, whatever- make it work. They look amazing, they sound amazing, they're smooth as silk, the powerful. The forced induction (supercharging) would add the low-end torque that's needed.

I'm not ever buying a new Cadillac unless it has a V8..............unless fuel prices continue to go nuts. When I saw $4.12 at one of those Oasis fuel stations on the Interstate just North of Chicago, I could not believe my eyes. And $1.27 per liter in Manitoba! Prime Minister Harper, President Obama, it's time to do something about this so we can continue to enjoy our V8's!

Joe
05-01-11, 08:39 AM
I'd like to see that flex fuel engine they use in the newer Silverado's tried in the CTS. It cruises on 4 cylinders for economy. I bet that would give great gas mileage and plenty of horsepower when needed. I love my 06 Vortec that's in my shorty, the newer ones are sweet!

maeng9981
05-02-11, 03:41 AM
Active Fuel Management - that would be the thing that every large displacement engine needs.

I agree with Jake; GM should've chosen to upgrade the Northstar to make it competitive again on the market. At least they should've kept the RWD Northstars. I don't want a V6-only Cadillac; proper Cadillacs have V8's under the hood.

Seriously, they need to come up with a new DOHC V8 and name it Northstar rather than thinking about slapping a turbo or supercharger for the 3.6DI and replace V8's. How cool is the name "Northstar"? In my honest opinion, the naming is better than those RPO names like LT1, LS6, whatever.

NHRATA01
05-02-11, 12:10 PM
And the Northstar has an exhaust note that makes anyone's ears tune in as the vehicle drives by- There are issues with the Northstar and always have been, but nothing that could not be improved/fixed.



Eh, that's debatable to me as an engineer. Anything done to address the inherent issues of the Northstar would just be a bandage, and GM sorely needs to continue to move away from the "bandage" logic of fixing things and pursue robust designs.

Engines have come along way in the near 25 years since the Northstar was on the drawing board. The odd half-case design of the N* was itself a compromise and it will always be prone to leaks. Assuming Caddy wants to pursue the 6-figure S-class and 7-series markets, no one will accept their 100k+ vehicle leaving oil spots on their driveway pavers. I'm also not sure the Northstar heads could accommodate direct injection without a major redesign. At that point you're already half way into a new engine, might as well go with a clean sheet effort from the block up.