: P1599 - Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected



JoeTahoe
04-13-11, 08:25 AM
I have a stalling issue and this code. On my 99 STS it stalls once out of 5 stops when in gear. Once in a blue moon it stalls while idleing in park. :thumbsup:Car runs awsome other wise. As you all know I have had the engine out to stud, rering,reseal and rebearing. This is the only code it has.
Thanks for all input, Joe

Ranger
04-13-11, 11:58 AM
That almost sounds like a bad CKP sensor ('99's are not known for that) or a stuck on TCC solenoid, but either one should set a DTC.

JoeTahoe
04-13-11, 05:46 PM
T.C.C solenoid is new (GM) It does stall when in park once in awhile. So would the T.C.C solenoild still cause that?? I am gonna try and watch the scanner and try to take a snap shot when it stalls to see what is going on. I put 150 miles on it today mostly interstate and all I have to say is I think I might be in love with this car!!!

vincentm
04-13-11, 07:40 PM
Joe, if i could marry mine, i would!

Ranger
04-13-11, 09:33 PM
T.C.C solenoid is new (GM) It does stall when in park once in awhile. So would the T.C.C solenoild still cause that?? I am gonna try and watch the scanner and try to take a snap shot when it stalls to see what is going on. I put 150 miles on it today mostly interstate and all I have to say is I think I might be in love with this car!!!
Not usually, but anything is possible.

Since you have just done major work on the car, you might recheck the grounds and connections.

JoeTahoe
04-17-11, 07:24 PM
now would you have any other issues with a marginal CKP sensor or a code. If I play with the trottle while in gear at a stop I can keep it running like it does not have a issue or just slightly increase the idle. When it does stall it starts right back up in neutral and runs fine. I am a bit stumped on this one as I did not own the car before the head bolt issues. any help on this would be very helpfull. Thanks for all and any input, Joe

Ranger
04-17-11, 08:49 PM
When it does stall it starts right back up in neutral and runs fine.
That is exactly the symptom of a bad CKP sensor. They should set a CKP sensor DTC, but don't always. That said, the '99 is not known for CKP sensor problem. Of coarse that does not mean they are immuned either.

JoeTahoe
04-17-11, 10:52 PM
thanks ranger I think I might replace both and see what happens

JoeTahoe
04-19-11, 01:42 PM
now will a egr valve cause a stall issue only and no code? A friend at a dealer talked to one of the techs and he said dirty TB or egr valve, Both were cleaned when I did the rebuild and the only code is P1599 it did pass inspection yesterday so I beleive all the ready monitors are satisfied but I will check on the egr when I get home tonight.

Ranger
04-19-11, 02:22 PM
A stuck open EGR will cause a stall, but should set some DTC's like P1404 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Closed Position Performance, P1406 - EGR Valve Pintle Position Circuit, P1599 - Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected for instance.

89falcon
04-19-11, 03:17 PM
IAC Motor?

Is your idle speed abnormally slow when it doesn't stall?

postman2000
04-19-11, 03:57 PM
On my 2000 Deville i had a very similar problem.. It turned out to be the Idle air control valve.. I believe this IAC is just the newer version of the Idle speed control motor..

JoeTahoe
04-19-11, 03:59 PM
do you mean IAC valve and it just stalls just like you turned the key off, no hicup. Put it in neutral with no foot on the throttle and it starts perfect and idles perfect. If you raise the rpms 850-900 (just slightly on the throttle) and in gear it won't stall

JoeTahoe
04-19-11, 03:59 PM
thanks post man

Ranger
04-19-11, 08:58 PM
If the IAC is bad it should stall anytime you take your foot off the throttle regardless of speed or gear selection.

89falcon
04-21-11, 11:16 AM
hmmm....so there is no baseline idle on the Northstar? I had a 90 Vette that with everything (AC) off, had an idle setting of about 500RPM with the IAC disconnected....if you loaded the engine up at all, it would stall....then the IAC bumped the Idle RPM up a couple hundred RPM...and compensated for the extra load when yo put it in gear, or turned the AC on.

Submariner409
04-21-11, 02:06 PM
Baseline and desired idle speed on a Northstar is 650 or so. MAP, IAC (ISC), MAF, and TPS all factor into idle speed which is PCM compensated for loads: A/C compressor, alternator load, transmission gear engagement (N to D or R).

JoeTahoe
04-22-11, 06:17 PM
This stalling is driving me crazy I have spent hours with the scanner and see no reason why it is stalling. So tomorrow or sunday I am gonna have a buddy that works at a very busy shop look at it

JoeTahoe
04-25-11, 11:58 PM
now get this, I went into troubleshooter in my snap-on scanner and read the sympton tips and it said to switch plug wires at the coil for #1 and #4. It has not stalled in two days. Now could someone explain this??

Ranger
04-26-11, 09:27 AM
That changed the firing order, didn't it? Was the firing order wrong?

JoeTahoe
04-26-11, 11:25 AM
Coil said #1 so it went to #1 and same with #4. Now #1 coil goes to #4 plug and #4 coil goes to #1 plug. #1 and #4 are on the same coil. I just dont understand?? When it did idle before the change it was smooth and did not miss a beat under load. It still is smooth from idle all the way up thew the rpms. It has me stumped. But no more stalling for last 3 days

Ranger
04-26-11, 02:37 PM
#1 and #4 fire at the same time. One fires on the compression stroke while the other fires on the exhaust stroke (waste spark), so I guess it did not change the firing order. That said, I have no explanation or even a guess as to how that solved your problem. :noidea:

JoeTahoe
04-26-11, 04:45 PM
talked to a friend at a very busy shop and he said mabee rf signal was messing with something???

Ranger
04-26-11, 08:49 PM
:noidea:

Anything is possible, but then I would ask why does it not interfere with it on another cylinder or any of the other cylinders for that matter?

JoeTahoe
04-27-11, 08:50 AM
he said mabee moved the wires around so there was no more interference??

00 Deville
04-27-11, 10:43 AM
he said mabee moved the wires around so there was no more interference??


It sounds like your friend is suspecting an EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) problem. I've seen EMI cause some very strange things to happen. If you want to play around with it switch the #1 & #4 wires back... reroute the path the wires take and see it you still have the issue.

Submariner409
04-27-11, 10:47 AM
You need to Google "waste spark ignition" in order to read up on the theory for your system. There are endless references in a simple search.

I believe that, in the Cadillac/GM system, the coil polarity is changed for each firing stroke - by the PCM/ICM - so the power plug has a positive discharge: center electrode to ground, while the waste (exhaust stroke) plug fires on a negative discharge - the ground electrode to center.

For some reason, changing your plug wires has helped - but they're now apparently out of (electrical discharge) phase with the other 6 cylinders.

JoeTahoe
04-27-11, 11:04 AM
now sub if I had a problem with a crank sensor would this matter?? And what are the problems that having the #1 and #4 switched I ask because the car runs great and It does not stall and no more P1499 or any codes

Ranger
04-27-11, 11:04 AM
Sub, does that make any difference? :noidea: I always thought the alternating reverse polarity was just an irrelevant side effect.

Submariner409
04-27-11, 11:15 AM
It should not make a real difference in performance - JimD and I went around and around on this a few months back. My advice has always been to connect the coils and wires as specified in the service manuals.

Theoretically, plug polarity make a difference and in some cases where people have connected the coils/plug wires backwards, reversing the wires has made a positive (good) difference.

This is right out of the GM service manual, and it must be there for a reason.

JoeTahoe
04-27-11, 11:35 AM
I think I am gonna move the wires back and reroute them a little diff. and see if the stall comes back, Sub what about the ? on the crank sensors?? And did I say I love this car and the Corsa exhaust is simple awsome!!!!

Submariner409
04-27-11, 11:52 AM
Sub what about the ? on the crank sensors??

Your pre-2000 sensors are identical, so it's possible that you could connect them A to B - B to A. But would the engine even run with such a radical cylinder comparison mismatch ?? I do know that operation on one CKP will default the ignition timing to 10 degrees BTDC..........and timing also depends on the CMP for cylinder and piston position information.

JoeTahoe
04-27-11, 01:13 PM
Thanks for the input guys

JoeTahoe
04-28-11, 11:22 AM
I put firing order back to factory spec last night and rerouted #1 and #4 wires. Have drove 30 miles and it has not stalled yet

mhamilton
04-28-11, 12:37 PM
It's a waste-spark ignition system, doesn't change the firing order if you switch wires on the same coil. Both plugs on each coil will fire always (one on the top of the compression stroke the other will be on exhaust).

Sounds like it may have just been a bad contact on the coil or wire... glad it's working. If it comes back I'd probably change the coil.

Submariner409
04-28-11, 04:46 PM
An old, old maintenance advice was to never run spark plug wires parallel to each other - as in: bundle them in a loom or conduit. If they have to cross, do it at a large angle. Why ?? The school of thought is that, as one plug fires, the magnetic field surrounding the "live" wire induces a secondary spark in the adjacent wire.

mhamilton knows that theory from tube electronics.......:sneaky:

RippyPartsDept
04-28-11, 05:17 PM
same with a/v wires... all intersections are supposed to be at 90 degree angles to cut down on interference

mhamilton
04-28-11, 10:13 PM
Very true... the old Ford 302 had very specific instructions not to route wires 7 and 8 (5 & 7 on a GM V8) next to each other because they would cross fire.

But on the N*, there shouldn't really be that issue unless wires for 6 and 8 get too close. They're the only adjacent cylinders in the firing order. Most GM engines I've seen don't have crossfiring issues... my '96 LT1 had the wires all wrapped up neatly in looms on both sides of the engine from the factory.

But anyway, at least it's working smoothly for Joe :)

JoeTahoe
04-29-11, 08:18 AM
still no stalling. But the Snap-on Solus said in the troubleshooter side under symptoms to swap #1 and #4 so it must be a problem that the techs have had.

00 Deville
04-29-11, 08:58 AM
Glad to hear re-routing the wires may have solved your problem. In a perfect world you should only cross wires at a 90 degree angle to reduce the transformer effect, especially when your dealing with wires that carry a large amount of voltage. But, in the real world it's not always practical to do this... luckily something as simple as re-routing the path a wire takes can reduce the induced electromotive force to acceptable levels.

JoeTahoe
05-12-11, 08:41 AM
No more stalling since rerouting the wires!!

RippyPartsDept
05-12-11, 08:55 AM
great news!