: Help Persuade Facebook to go Green!



Krashed989
04-13-11, 04:53 AM
"Unfriend Coal" is currently trying to make a world record attempt at the most comments on a facebook message in 24 hours. The idea is that with enough people, we may be able to persuade at least one corporate giant to go green. maybe if we can get one to follow the green path, more might follow. Comments will be displayed on a large LCD display at Facebooks headquarters. They are even going to give away shirts to some commentors. So have fun commenting and being a part of a world record attempt that has a good chance of actually causing something good to happen in the world.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/unfriend-coal/comment-here-now-for-the-world-record-attempt-and-share-50000-needed/138626456210552#!/notes/unfriend-coal/comment-here-now-for-the-world-record-attempt-and-share-50000-needed/138626456210552

hueterm
04-13-11, 09:15 AM
I like coal. We need to use it more.

Coal is abundant, can be used cleanly and provides jobs.

Maybe whoever started this stupid group should go wade around off the coast of Japan for a couple of days...

Sevillian273
04-13-11, 09:17 AM
If enough people press 'Like' on carbon offsets, the problem will simply disappear!

OffThaHorseCEO
04-13-11, 04:14 PM
im going to start a facebook group soon called give me some money. if enough people like it or follow or repost or whatever, maybe someone will give me some money

Playdrv4me
04-13-11, 05:49 PM
wtf? did the forum software post this thread 12 days late?...

hueterm
04-13-11, 08:33 PM
It's smarter than we give it credit for....given the stupidity of this thread...

Krashed989
04-14-11, 03:50 AM
I'd love to debate the stupidity of using pollution prone non-renewables with you, but I have better things to do. It doesn't matter anyway right? If we destroy our planet we have another one on stand-by right?... :doh:

Stingroo
04-14-11, 07:46 AM
Eight technically. Well, no... make that seven. They demoted Pluto. :lol:

(I kid, I kid.)

hueterm
04-14-11, 08:13 AM
I'd love to debate the stupidity of using pollution prone non-renewables with you, but I have better things to do. It doesn't matter anyway right? If we destroy our planet we have another one on stand-by right?... :doh:

Really? Coal doesn't have to be pollutive -- emissions can be captured -- it's been done for quite a while.

I never understood the whole "non-renewable" thing. What difference does it make if an energy source is non-renewable, when people like you don't ever want to use any of them in the first place...?

As to "the planet" -- one gimpy volcano in Iceland can completely cloud Europe in ash, and put god only knows how much carbon into the atmosphere. (Maybe enough for Al Gore to fly his G5 around the world nonstop for the rest of his life, while spouting his BS.) So much so, that within a week or so, it made it all the way back around to the U.S. Our ability to impact the planet is dwarfed by the planet's ability to impact itself.

Short of setting off every nuclear warhead on the planet at one time, the idea of our destroying it gives us a little more credit than we're due. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do what we can to reduce pollution where possible, as the impact locally can be extreme. But all the ecoleft wants to do is control what we are able to do, and hamper our way of life.

And GOOD LUCK getting any of these emerging countries to stop polluting on a far worse scale that we could dream. They're not going to throttle their economies "for the planet"...

Florian
04-14-11, 02:01 PM
I like coal. We need to use it more.

Coal is abundant, can be used cleanly and provides jobs.

Maybe whoever started this stupid group should go wade around off the coast of Japan for a couple of days...

I like coal too, Hue!

"Green" is just a money grab for folks much richer than you and I will ever be.

F

Florian
04-14-11, 02:05 PM
"Unfriend Coal" is currently trying to make a world record attempt at the most comments on a facebook message in 24 hours. The idea is that with enough people, we may be able to persuade at least one corporate giant to go green. maybe if we can get one to follow the green path, more might follow. Comments will be displayed on a large LCD display at Facebooks headquarters. They are even going to give away shirts to some commentors. So have fun commenting and being a part of a world record attempt that has a good chance of actually causing something good to happen in the world.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/unfriend-coal/comment-here-now-for-the-world-record-attempt-and-share-50000-needed/138626456210552#!/notes/unfriend-coal/comment-here-now-for-the-world-record-attempt-and-share-50000-needed/138626456210552

not EVER happening.

F

Jesda
04-15-11, 03:10 AM
I burn kittens for warmth, and food.

Krashed989
04-15-11, 04:01 AM
Really? Coal doesn't have to be pollutive -- emissions can be captured -- it's been done for quite a while.

I know it has. Still you're digging up carbon, sulfer, and nitrogen from the ground and turning it all into gasses to be spewed into the air. If you at least grow algae and burn the oil it produces, the carbon you're putting into the air actually came out of the air in the first place! Algae, from seed to harvest is around 2 days. Just grow, dehydrate, run it through a screw press and voalah! Diesel fuel. What's stopping them right now? There are millions of different species of algae. They are mostly trying to research which will give them the best yield, so companies can focus on just growing that specific species of algae.




I never understood the whole "non-renewable" thing. What difference does it make if an energy source is non-renewable, when people like you don't ever want to use any of them in the first place...?

The difference comes when it is finally depleted and the economy is thrown into a depression.... Kinda like what's happening now with gas and oil (except right now that's just the oil companies exercising their monopoly on us).

Ever heard of exponential growth?... It means that every 7 years we see our consumption double. It means that each successive year, just to meet the demands for the year, it will take the production equivalent of all of the previous years in human history combined but all compressed into that one year. How long will it be till we reach a limit? Where we simply can not consume any more because it has all been consumed... it may not be in our lifetimes, but it doesn't take a genius to know that it will happen, since this is a finite world.



As to "the planet" -- one gimpy volcano in Iceland can completely cloud Europe in ash, and put god only knows how much carbon into the atmosphere. (Maybe enough for Al Gore to fly his G5 around the world nonstop for the rest of his life, while spouting his BS.) So much so, that within a week or so, it made it all the way back around to the U.S. Our ability to impact the planet is dwarfed by the planet's ability to impact itself.

Very true... Actually humans dont even produce 1/3 of the green house gasses. It's the volcanoes producing most of it... What's interesting is that the huge rise in CO2 is not so much related to our own emmissions of that gas, but rather the amount of deforestation taking place in the world. If you've seen the graph, CO2 levels rise quite a bit every winter and fall every summer. You can probably guess why. Usually the forests are able to handle it and balance it out, but apparently not if they are burnt/chopped down to make way for corn and suburbs. We are not really seeing an increase in volcanic activity so much as a lowering of the ecosystems ability to cope with the volcanic activity, plus our emmissions dont help either.



Short of setting off every nuclear warhead on the planet at one time, the idea of our destroying it gives us a little more credit than we're due. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do what we can to reduce pollution where possible, as the impact locally can be extreme. But all the ecoleft wants to do is control what we are able to do, and hamper our way of life.

True... But that's just because we are in a monetary system. I support self sustainability. I do not support the monetary based economy. Money was a nice tool for trade for a very long time; however, over that long period of time, it has become skewed, exploitable and very corruptable, not to mention a tool for a form of slavery we often call "debt" (which has actually been used to take over countries). It is just a largely flawed system. But I wont go into that any further... I believe self sustainability is key for the survival of the human race on this planet. We have finite resources, so just using all of them now with no reguard for the future is silly.



And GOOD LUCK getting any of these emerging countries to stop polluting on a far worse scale that we could dream. They're not going to throttle their economies "for the planet"...

True but monetary economies are very flawed, and especially in that way. It incentivises the cutting of corners in every aspect of life, safety, health, the environment, you name it.... Personally I would like to see a country try out the Resource Based Economy that the Zeitgeist Movement proposes... But that's only because that's the best Idea that I've heard of so far. It may not be perfect, but it would be a lot better than what we have now.... I'm not biased for it though, if there was a better idea I would definitely switch my views.

Jesda
04-15-11, 06:16 AM
http://smiliesftw.com/x/bigugh512_1.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

hueterm
04-15-11, 08:02 AM
not EVER happening.

F


Oh, but remember, we're in a flawed, monetary based (thank god) economy....

When they dig up Che, and the revolution comes, things will be different...

OffThaHorseCEO
04-15-11, 10:44 AM
Question: What's stopping them right now? Answer: There are millions of different species of algae. They are mostly trying to research which will give them the best yield, so companies can focus on just growing that specific species of algae.






The difference comes when it is finally depleted and the economy is thrown into a depression.... Kinda like what's happening now with gas and oil (except right now that's just the oil companies exercising their monopoly on us).
Do "green" proponents really think that its just going to dry up suddenly? That one morning we're going to wake up and hear the oil companies saying "sorry guys we ran out, better find something else to use". Oil is the cash cow right now, but these multi billion dollar corporations arent just going to pack up and go home when oil runs out. theyll have a backup plan ready, and they'll probably end up controlling whatever form of "alternative energy" the world moves to next. Im also pretty sure we'll stop being dependent on oil before the world runs out.


Ever heard of exponential growth?... It means that every 7 years we see our consumption double. It means that each successive year, just to meet the demands for the year, it will take the production equivalent of all of the previous years in human history combined but all compressed into that one year.
Ok, so in 2010 we used as much fuel as in 2009+2008+07+06+05+04+03+02+01+00+99+98+97 etc etc etc. :histeric:Yea right.



True... But that's just because we are in a monetary system. I support self sustainability. I do not support the monetary based economy. Money was a nice tool for trade for a very long time; however, over that long period of time, it has become skewed, exploitable and very corruptable, not to mention a tool for a form of slavery we often call "debt" (which has actually been used to take over countries). It is just a largely flawed system. But I wont go into that any further... I believe self sustainability is key for the survival of the human race on this planet. We have finite resources, so just using all of them now with no reguard for the future is silly.



True but monetary economies are very flawed, and especially in that way. It incentivises the cutting of corners in every aspect of life, safety, health, the environment, you name it.... Personally I would like to see a country try out the Resource Based Economy that the Zeitgeist Movement proposes... But that's only because that's the best Idea that I've heard of so far. It may not be perfect, but it would be a lot better than what we have now.... I'm not biased for it though, if there was a better idea I would definitely switch my views.

We're humans. Humans have emotions wants aspirations etc etc. Its impossible to change that. Even if we went back to a non-monetary system, we'd eventually end up in a monetary system again. We're not caveman or a tribe of africans.

hueterm
04-15-11, 10:53 AM
He doesn't care. You might as well be Charlie Brown's teacher.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-15-11, 11:04 AM
wahwahwahwahwah wahwahwah

Stingroo
04-15-11, 11:14 AM
Yo yo yo yo... why we gotta be a tribe of Africans brah?!

ThumperPup
04-15-11, 11:18 AM
I am all for coal but going green just will cost to much in the end leave things they way they do
the only part about going green i would ever want to see
are those stores that print your reciptes so long
you go into Micro Center buy 1 item and your recipte is as long as your elbow to your wrist thats messed up

go to walmart buy a qt of oil get a recipte that wastes the same amount of paper
i think stores should have the ability to offer you email reciptes
that would help

but to totaly go green you won't be able to save the world before we all die
its not going to do anything
only way to do anything would be to start fresh with a bubble built over your town like in the movies lol

OffThaHorseCEO
04-15-11, 11:39 AM
Yo yo yo yo... why we gotta be a tribe of Africans brah?!

that was the first place that popped into my head that still has tribes that possibly dont depend on a monetary economy.

Stingroo
04-15-11, 01:52 PM
:lol: I'm kidding. :thumbsup:

Krashed989
04-15-11, 02:31 PM
Do "green" proponents really think that its just going to dry up suddenly? That one morning we're going to wake up and hear the oil companies saying "sorry guys we ran out, better find something else to use". Oil is the cash cow right now, but these multi billion dollar corporations arent just going to pack up and go home when oil runs out. theyll have a backup plan ready, and they'll probably end up controlling whatever form of "alternative energy" the world moves to next. Im also pretty sure we'll stop being dependent on oil before the world runs out.

True, and I hope we do stop being dependant. I don't think it will dry up very suddenly, probably not even in our lifetimes. Just getting it from the earth will become more cumbersome and expensive.



Ok, so in 2010 we used as much fuel as in 2009+2008+07+06+05+04+03+02+01+00+99+98+97 etc etc etc. :histeric:Yea right.

Let me recheck my sources on that. I may have remembered it wrong.





We're humans. Humans have emotions wants aspirations etc etc. Its impossible to change that. Even if we went back to a non-monetary system, we'd eventually end up in a monetary system again. We're not caveman or a tribe of africans.

Yeah, the non-monetary systems of the past were also very flawed. A resource based economy is not one of those. Aspects may be based on some of those, and the learning experience of what went wrong or what went right.


He doesn't care. You might as well be Charlie Brown's teacher.

I do care. If you can show me that our system is perfect the way it is, it would make me much happier to live in it and I would gladly change my views. Right now I just think it's just a bunch of stupid bullcrap that people defend because it is the only thing they are familliar with.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-15-11, 02:40 PM
I do care. If you can show me that our system is perfect the way it is, it would make me much happier to live in it and I would gladly change my views. Right now I just think it's just a bunch of stupid bullcrap that people defend because it is the only thing they are familliar with.

Its not perfect. Its the system that makes the most sense though. Not because we're used to it either.

How do you barter furs to someone who already has a million furs? What if furs are youre only available resource? Now you suddenly have to go to the guy who has lumber, trade your fur for lumber assuming he wants fur, then go back and pay the original guy in lumber instead of fur.

Can you elaborate a bit on your idea of a non-monetary based economy cause everytime i imagine it i imagine cavemen, fur, beads etc

johnny kannapo
04-15-11, 02:57 PM
Nobody in there right mind is a opposed to being "green".

There is great opposition to being force by political means to untested & unestablished, under devoloped energy sources and the ammunition to motivate change is inflating the cost of the common energy sources that makes the world turn. This is a negative approach that will only generate resistance.

No one is against better alternative energy choices. The problem is so far they are not better & they are sending us into poverty. All wind & solar combined currently provides a fraction of 1% of the American energy needs. Tax payers have paid billions upon billions and the solutions are still very far away.

There is a green culture out there that believes this can be changed overnight. They are sadly mistaken.

Currently in Venezuela gas is 12 cents a gallon, in Great Britain gas is $9 a gallon.

Florian
04-15-11, 02:58 PM
damn hippies.

F

johnny kannapo
04-15-11, 03:20 PM
Be sure to vote accordingly.


http://youtu.be/P36x8rTb3jI

Krashed989
04-15-11, 07:05 PM
Its not perfect. Its the system that makes the most sense though. Not because we're used to it either.

How do you barter furs to someone who already has a million furs? What if furs are youre only available resource? Now you suddenly have to go to the guy who has lumber, trade your fur for lumber assuming he wants fur, then go back and pay the original guy in lumber instead of fur.

Can you elaborate a bit on your idea of a non-monetary based economy cause everytime i imagine it i imagine cavemen, fur, beads etc

All of the resources are the common inheritance of all the worlds people. So really you do not fully own anything, but you can have the "use" of whatever you want assuming it is available. There is no barter or trade needed. The only trade necessary would be that of spreading resources more evenly to account for increases in "demand of usage." Using our current technology it is estimated we can phase out close to 70% of all rundundant jobs. You see it happening today already with automization, however people are against it today because it takes away jobs. What's left is innovators, scientists, teachers, doctors and artists (there's probably more that I'm forgetting but yeah). Without money, close to 90% of all crime would be eliminated. Why would you steal something if you could get it for free? You wouldn't be able to sell it. Whatever remaining crime there is would likely be due to social or mental problems. These people would be studied and treated for their conditions rather than caged up. Prisons don't work, it's been proven over and over again here in the US. Look up videos about prisons in Norway, those would open your eyes.

Q. Who is the government?
A. You are. All issues that are being faced would be broadcast to to public with the intent of recieving help on them. If you dont want to help, that's fine. Most likely, if it's an issue that directly effects you or a loved one, you would want to help resolve it though. Most important decisions would actually be arrived at though (rather than decided by people), through experimentation and using the scientific method to find the best possible solution.

Demand of "use" not demand of property (which is far larger) would be tracked in real time and supply would be adjusted/predicted with a "fudge" factor.
Q. What stops people from wanting to use the best of the best?
A. NOTHING, that's the point; If you're not going to build something right, why waste resources on it?

Q. What stops people from hoarding resources?
A. It would be very cumbersome to hoard resources with all the space it would take up. Not to mention, if something better comes out, everything you just hoarded is sub-par. If you want to travel the world, it would be as simple as checking to see what housing options are vacant and reserving it for your stay. Your place of residence here would be put back into the resource database for someone else; So everything that you just hoarded that you can not bring with you would go back into the local database. Not to mention, hoarding is basically a sign that something is wrong with you. It would be noticed and people would try to help you.

Everything would be designed with recycling in mind. If something breaks, it should get replaced with a known good unit and the broken one gets studied (to see why it broke and possibly design it better) and then recycled for materials. Self sustainability would be prioritized. This means mining our resources from landfills, and doing all of the other "going green" stuff.

A good example for the demand of use rather than demand of property would be cars. Each car today spends an average of 1 hour on the road a day. This means that it's only being used for about 1/24 of it's life. The rest of the time it's just sitting parked, wasting space and resources. If that car lives for 10 years, it's only really been in use for 152.1 DAYS! The rest of the time it was sitting there, rotting. Think about that. Now think about how much less cars we would really need to produce if people are only demanding use of them rather than ownership. That's resources that can be allocated elsewhere.

Q. Without money, what will motivate people to do anything?
A. Your own personal interests will motivate you. Not to mention, as I said before, if there is a problem effecting you or a loved one, you will most likely try to help resolve it. With 70% of the job market phased out, really people could just volunteer some time when they are bored and have nothing better to do, and that would be more than enough work to keep the economy functioning. Instead of creating problems for ourselves to fix in the interest of creating jobs (the monetary system) we would actually be working to solve our problems and move foreward.

Money is not really an enabler, it is more of a barrier or a shackle. It keeps those in poverty in poverty, and it is the reason for the thousands of preventable deaths every day (famine, curable diseases, etc). It is the reason we are not self sustaining right now, and we will probably not be self sustaining in my lifetime either because of it.


It's funny how something so logical would sound like fantasy, isn't it? Again, it's not a perfect idea, but it's got a lot of merit to it. If it works, it would be a lot better than the system we currently live in.

So it's kindof a Marxist, communist, anarchist, socialist, democratic, scientific, technocracy. lol...

Stingroo
04-15-11, 07:09 PM
This thread has delved into bat-shit crazy territory.

Sevillian273
04-15-11, 07:16 PM
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m280/merc892003/1254216060t.jpg

OffThaHorseCEO
04-15-11, 07:20 PM
All of that is easier said than done. Again, you forget we are humans. As humans we have flaws that make us greedy and stupid but we also have that hunger for more.

Sure we should be self motivated to do things to help each other and ourselves, but real motivation comes from knowing you'll have MORE if you can make this breakthrough.

Without the possibility of recognition or monetary gain, what would convince someone to study or reasearch illnesses other than helping family or friends? How much research can you and your brother and your best friend do if noone else cares or is willing to help?

Also, without rewards what are penalties? Lets say i stay in one of those homes that are community dwellings and i decide to move to china, when i leave the home i was living in has crap all over the walls, and all the windows are broken. When i move from china to australia the house is left a mess again. Someone has to fix it, or, to prevent it, someone has to monitor it. This means one person or a few people are giving up their day to make sure other people dont destroy things, all the while they have friends who are out enjoying themselves at the beach or in the woods or who knows where else. I work alot now, but its because i get paid well enough to not care as much about being here all day, if i wasnt being paid id say screw it and roll out.

so, if i stand to gain nothing, but stand to lose precious time, why would i sit and do something i dont really want to do all day?

OffThaHorseCEO
04-15-11, 07:28 PM
It's funny how something so logical would sound like fantasy, isn't it? Again, it's not a perfect idea, but it's got a lot of merit to it. If it works, it would be a lot better than the system we currently live in.

So it's kindof a Marxist, communist, anarchist, socialist, democratic, scientific, technocracy. lol...

If it worked. All of those ideas work on paper, but we give humans too much credit.

Someone always wants to be head honcho.

I predict if we put the system you envision into place, some guy would invent a new type of deity, and say that that deity has said he has the sole right to "OWN" a large chunk of those buildings.

Stingroo
04-15-11, 07:44 PM
Paging L. Ron Hubbard.

gary88
04-15-11, 08:17 PM
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m280/merc892003/1254216060t.jpg

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4172/60983036.jpg

Sevillian273
04-15-11, 08:26 PM
LOL

And the tubes are made of non-renewable materials!!!!

Krashed989
04-15-11, 09:20 PM
All of that is easier said than done. Again, you forget we are humans. As humans we have flaws that make us greedy and stupid but we also have that hunger for more.

Sure we should be self motivated to do things to help each other and ourselves, but real motivation comes from knowing you'll have MORE if you can make this breakthrough.

Without the possibility of recognition or monetary gain, what would convince someone to study or reasearch illnesses other than helping family or friends? How much research can you and your brother and your best friend do if noone else cares or is willing to help?

Also, without rewards what are penalties? Lets say i stay in one of those homes that are community dwellings and i decide to move to china, when i leave the home i was living in has crap all over the walls, and all the windows are broken. When i move from china to australia the house is left a mess again. Someone has to fix it, or, to prevent it, someone has to monitor it. This means one person or a few people are giving up their day to make sure other people dont destroy things, all the while they have friends who are out enjoying themselves at the beach or in the woods or who knows where else. I work alot now, but its because i get paid well enough to not care as much about being here all day, if i wasnt being paid id say screw it and roll out.

so, if i stand to gain nothing, but stand to lose precious time, why would i sit and do something i dont really want to do all day?

You will put into the database that there are issues with the dwelling and go to a different one. That house will get repaired and cleaned, believe it or not we have robots that can do those tasks today. The database will have in its log the name of the houses' last resident. They will be studied and treated for whatever caused them to do that.

If you want more info on it, Here's the website: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?Itemid=50

I'm not the brains behind it, so I don't have all of the answers. I'm merely saying that I agree with their idea.

Sevillian273
04-15-11, 09:33 PM
Uh oh, you referenced the works of Peter Joseph... This is going to get ugly. :hide:

I can get behind a lot of that, but it's just not going anywhere. Without a means of implementation, it's just an idea.

Krashed989
04-15-11, 11:18 PM
Very true... The transition is not clear... which is their main problem...lol

johnny kannapo
04-16-11, 01:13 AM
http://youtu.be/l_fXJjQk81g

johnny kannapo
04-16-11, 01:26 AM
http://youtu.be/a8I0OIMoqKE

Stingroo
04-16-11, 07:35 AM
Studied and treated by whom, exactly? If we're all busy frolicking out in the fields 'cause life is so grand and we don't own shit and we can just go drive Ferraris and Lamborghinis for the lulz, who will give a crap about being a doctor for some crackpot theory that everyone who does something evil must be "studied and fixed"?

Good sir, I do believe this thread is officially in crackpipeland.

gary88
04-16-11, 02:04 PM
Lamborghini is?
Does the Lamborghini own something?

:grammar:

drewsdeville
04-16-11, 02:21 PM
Good sir, I do believe this thread is officially in crackpipeland.

:thumbsup: