: Replaced thermostart and now it won't run



imprezave
04-07-11, 07:34 PM
Heres the story..

I replaced the thermostat, the intake manifold and plenum seals looked good so i reused them, put everything back together and go to start it. It starts right up for about 3 seconds, revs to 2500rpm and then slowly revs down and stalls. No CEL, no security light. If i press the throttle pedal it will run but not very well.

I pulled off the plenum again and double checked the injector clips and harness connector, all is well. Still, it wont run.

I can smell fuel so i dont think thats the issue. Is there some sort of learning trick? Since there is no CEL i was thinking i have a vacuum leak.

:banghead::crying:

hgqguy
04-07-11, 08:05 PM
what yr car?

imprezave
04-07-11, 10:24 PM
Doh, sorry! 99'

imprezave
04-09-11, 01:26 PM
Does anyone know where i can get a pdf of the service manual? Or know what the torque specs are for the manifold pieces?

joeskisnow
04-09-11, 08:36 PM
Tighten the intake manifold spacer bolts to 20 Nm (15 ft lbs).

•Tighten the intake manifold bolts to 20 Nm (15 ft lbs).

Note: The manufacture does not provide a torque sequence for this component.

Install the throttle body bolts. Tighten to 12 Nm (106 inch lbs.) .

Install the intake plenum bolts. Tighten to 8 Nm (71 inch lbs.)

I ordered the ALLDATA through AutoZone and this is what I have found !!!!

imprezave
04-10-11, 08:29 PM
Thank you, Joe!:worship: I actually torqued the spacer to 15 ftlbs but the manifold to 10 ft lbs.

I also have some really good Subaru rtv that they use to seal the oil pump I was thinking about using. But ill torque the manifold to 15 ftlbs first.

I started it again today and now it just idles really bad, like it had some really aggressive cams, and i heard some knocking. Still no cel.

imprezave
04-11-11, 02:21 PM
Good news! When i took the plenum off i noticed the line to the fuel pressure regulator that is connected to the throttle body. Which i previously did not.:helpless: I didn't remove the throttle body from the plenum so thats how i missed it.

But then i also noticed this.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4181/caddya001.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7345/caddya002.jpg

Before today, i only saw the t-fitting and i hooked that up to this valve (dont know what it is, pcv?). I thought it was weird that the fitting was so short and i checked inside the hose to see if it broke off but there was nothing. Then today i discovered this other hose which had the broken piece in it. Now i can't find where this t-fitting goes.

imprezave
04-11-11, 06:16 PM
I found the other nipple on the same valve. Which is also broke off. Now i just need to figure out what this thing is. Its still stalling so i hope this fixes it.

Edit: I found a good diagram and its a check valve for the brake booster.

imprezave
04-12-11, 05:59 PM
Well back to square one. I replaced the check valve and its still stalls. Its definitely a misfire though. Its really rough at low rpms but smoother at higher rpms. And still no CEL.

Is it possible i could have rotated the spacer to where its blocking a port?

The only sense i can make of a vacuum leak would be air entering the cylinders that wasn't metered causing it to lean out and detonate. But im not really sure.

Where is everyone!?:crybaby:

imprezave
04-13-11, 02:05 PM
Ok, i think i found it this time. I pulled off the manifold and i pinched a hose between it and the spacer. Its the small hose coming off the block (crank case ventilation?), right to the left (standing in front of the car looking at it) of the big ccv hose that splits and goes into the back of the plenum.



But of course i don't see any fitting to where it would go.:annoyed: Could someone please look at where this hose goes and let me know.

imprezave
04-13-11, 05:14 PM
Well i took a picture just in case.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2752/caddya004.jpg

1 is the hose that i pinched (as i described coming from the block, to the left of the big crankcase breather hose that splits). It looks like this hose could connect to the back of the plenum in place of the hose i labeled number 2. I can't see where number 2 is coming from. Some where on the driver side or top of the transmission.

I also forgot about this. I have no idea if there is suppose to be a relay here or what.

The pink connector attached to the green relay

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2831/caddya005.jpg

imprezave
04-14-11, 08:07 PM
I'll paypal you $10 if you can find where these hoses go!

imprezave
04-16-11, 08:17 PM
:wavesmoney:

hgqguy
04-17-11, 08:51 AM
the green one is fan control relay k 87

the pink is connector c110 this is all the shop manual says...

imprezave
04-17-11, 01:25 PM
Ok. Thanks for checking that. Im pretty sure i didnt remove it and i can't find anything that connects to it so ill just forget about it for nwo.

hgqguy
04-17-11, 03:28 PM
i will look threw the other manual volume.. but so far I have not found a vaccume diagam for hoses

imprezave
04-17-11, 03:40 PM
Awesome. Thank you thank you thank you. I have searched online for a diagram and i cant find anything. Ill have to look again at the diagram on the front rad support but i don't think its of any help with these hoses.

imprezave
04-21-11, 03:20 PM
Over a hundred views since and no one can take the five minutes to look...

hgqguy
04-21-11, 06:36 PM
i was unable to find a diagram for the hoses. I did spend a lota time in the shop manuals I have for the car.

tell me what u think the hoses are for and maybe that will help me pinpoint it in the shop manuals.. they are like 5000 pages long!

imprezave
04-21-11, 07:46 PM
Im pretty certain one of the hoses (#1 in my little diagram) is coming from the pcv system. The diagram on the rad support cover shows one hose coming off the pcv that goes into the intake plenum, which im guessing is #1 because the other hose that comes off splits and then goes into the plenum. There isn't any hose on the diagram that splits, maybe they didnt think it was necessary to show that. I have no idea on the other one (#2).

Oh and earlier i think i said #1 was coming from the block but its the head(pcv).

imprezave
04-22-11, 05:01 PM
I found out #1 is the primary hose for the pcv and which go to the plenum. Now i just need to figure out where two goes. I followed it as far back as possible and it looks like it goes to the firewall. I had a look under the car but can't see anything above the trans. I have no idea what could possibly need a vacuum signal back there.

hgqguy
04-22-11, 05:26 PM
maybe this is what your looking for???

hgqguy
04-22-11, 05:27 PM
Im pretty positive that is the diagram you are looking for!!

hgqguy
04-22-11, 05:30 PM
looks like evap canister line. evap canister in rear of car.

imprezave
04-22-11, 06:32 PM
Hogguy, thank you so much for checking! Unfortunately this is a different hose.

hgqguy
04-22-11, 06:57 PM
photo of my car....

hgqguy
04-22-11, 06:58 PM
I dont see that hose on my car...

there is a hose back there that has some type of metal pipe inside.. but nothing else I can see..

imprezave
04-22-11, 07:12 PM
Argh. Its probably pretty hard to find with the plenum on. It runs along the driver side of the trans and goes straight back to the fire wall/trans tunnel.

hgqguy
04-22-11, 07:25 PM
I will try to lok tomarrow. getting dusky out

imprezave
04-24-11, 03:50 PM
I was looking at it more today and If you stand in front of the wheel (driver side), get your head between the power steering fluid reservoir and the valve cover, look just past the valve cover, down to the middle of the transmission, its the hose that is zip tied to the wiring loom.

imprezave
04-26-11, 05:31 PM
Raising payment to $15:bouncy:

akamai43
04-26-11, 06:51 PM
I'm not sure where you are on your problem but the #2 hose does not get connected to anything up there. Its a transmnission vent line so leave it disconnected.

What is the car doing now ?? From what I've read it sounds to me like a vaccum line is not connected. I have run into this kind of problem many times becasue I have worked on Catera's for 8 years now and I did at one time own 2. I owned a 1997 and 2000 sport and I do all my own work in them. I dont allow anyone to touch my cars.

Can you pull the codes on the car ?? that would really help to identify if its a vaccum line or something electrical disconnected.

akamai43
04-26-11, 07:08 PM
After thinking about it a little longer, check the electrical connections on your plenum, around the throttle body. I replaced my timing belt and forgot to plug in one of the electrical connections near the throttle body in front in an area not to easy to see the connection and saw the wire hanging down and my car was doing the same thing and once I plugged it back in the problem was gone.

imprezave
04-26-11, 09:25 PM
Uhhh, finally! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Today i put it all back together and was going to take it to the dealer. Its dark out now, but first thing tomorrow ill try to start it.

akamai43
04-27-11, 12:25 PM
No need to pay me.. Just glad I can help.

Let me know how it goes...

imprezave
04-27-11, 04:14 PM
Alrighty. Thats nice of you. Surely, what goes around comes around.

Its running great. I took it for a test drive and not a single issue.

And many thanks to everyone else who has been helpful.

CaddyshackCadillac
04-27-11, 05:20 PM
That's awesome that you got her going this issue was going for a while ...all because of a stupid hose that doesn't connect to nothing ...love catera haha

imprezave
04-27-11, 05:37 PM
Haha yes, im very relieved. Part of the problem was that it took about a week after removing everything to get the right seals and thermostat (dont buy the napa thermostat and housing. It doesnt fit and you'll crack the extension pipe), so i kinda lost track of things. But i never did notice the vent line when i removed everything.

akamai43
04-27-11, 07:54 PM
Thats good news...

Let me know if you need any help with these as I have taken my 97 apart so many times I really got pretty good with it. Because I knew the Catera inside and out, I bought the 2000 sport model and I love the cars. I sold the 97 because the wife was telling me I had too many toys and I needed to get rid of one.
The guy I sold it to loves the car. He should, I replaced everything on it because the previous owner didn't take care of it. He's been driving it for over 2 years and not one problem and he makes sure I know about every time I see him. At least I didn't sell him a lemon.
If you do the maintenance on a regular basis, most of the time you dont have many problems.

imprezave
04-28-11, 01:54 PM
Awesome, thanks akamai.

joeskisnow
05-10-11, 10:37 PM
Sorry man, I was busy doing a valve job on my catera. Got the thing back together and it runs great.

Going by your diagram of the hoses, #2 is a vent hose for the transmission and is supposed to be there ( venting )
#1 is a vacum hose that attaches to the black top of your air plenum. on mine it is the 2nd from the left (Passenger side).

So looking at your picture, take #2 our of the picture and replace it with #1, then all 4 of those hoses go in line on the black top of your air plenum.

No need to wave money around, some of us are here to help and get help !!!