: 643 rhwp / 575 rtq!!!



DrumStix
04-01-11, 07:39 PM
I just got back from the dyno. I pulled off the w4m CAI and put on the New Era. I left the timing alone and dialed the MAF calibration back in. The AF curve laid right over the last AF curve in Feb and no other changes were made to the car since the last dyno. This is also the same dyno with no equipment changes.

Net result was 13 more RWHP on pump gas. and the tqe stayed the same The car went from 612 to 625! This is with only a 9.5 lower, ported blower, LS9 cam, New ERA CAI, cat back and tune.

After that I added a couple gallons of 100 for you dyno number lovers, and a couple degrees of timing on the 14th pull now in 2 hours and the car being hot it still laid down 643/575 SAE.

The New Era is cool to the touch as soon as you pop the hood after driving. With the other it remains very hot for 30-45 minutes. This is due to the materials used. Stainless vs aluminum, where the stainless dissipates heat rapidly. Also, the MAF is inserted at the same height as stock and in a different locations that the one I took off, hence the need to tune. The welds are fantastic and the power coating is dark great looks great. I am happy.

shade
04-01-11, 07:45 PM
Thats sweet. Do you have any numbers on the ported blower by itself?
When you kicked up the timing what was the final amount up top? 23? 24?
AF ratio?
How does the thing idle with the cam
BTW you suck. Im jealous

hulksdaddy
04-01-11, 07:48 PM
Congrats! Any pics of the set-up?

PhxTriode
04-01-11, 07:56 PM
I concur with shade, you do suck!

Nice job Drum. I see top 5 on the 1/4
Spreadsheet in your future. You will be the only guy up there with only a 9.5" lower and no heads or bah-bah.

Luna.
04-01-11, 07:58 PM
Very cool.

Do the tires hold in 2nd gear at all?? :)

shade
04-01-11, 08:00 PM
Damn PHXTriode maybe Jan has a bum dyno - you have the same mods and threw down 90 less ponies.

Razorecko
04-01-11, 08:55 PM
Hey Drumstix, I can almost 100% guarantee that the power gain was not from the design of the intake. It's because the new era goes a couple inches lower than the wait4me and dropped your actual filter to where it was getting more unblocked air flow. I did an air filter swap between a K&N and the green filter from my other thread and got the exact result. The slimmer lower dropping green filter made the wait4me pipe literally cool to the touch and the K&N made it hot. I did the same thing with 2 different filters on the new era and got the same result also. A better slimmer air filter that reaches lower and is not blocked by any panels will result in a cool to the touch intake.

PhxTriode
04-01-11, 08:58 PM
Damn PHXTriode maybe Jan has a bum dyno - you have the same mods and threw down 90 less ponies.

Or I'm the one who sucks :-)

PhxTriode
04-01-11, 09:02 PM
Hey Drumstix, I can almost 100% guarantee that the power gain was not from the design of the intake. It's because the new era goes a couple inches lower than the wait4me and dropped your actual filter to where it was getting more unblocked air flow. I did an air filter swap between a K&N and the green filter from my other thread and got the exact result. The slimmer lower dropping green filter made the wait4me pipe literally cool to the touch and the K&N made it hot. I did the same thing with 2 different filters on the new era and got the same result also. A better slimmer air filter that reaches lower and is not blocked by any panels will result in a cool to the touch intake.

What your saying make sense with the filter being lower, but we also see the CAI cool down much quicker after shutting the motor down ( the stainless doesn't act as a heatsink like aluminum). Perhaps both attribute to the result.

Razorecko
04-01-11, 09:14 PM
What your saying make sense with the filter being lower, but we also see the CAI cool down much quicker after shutting the motor down ( the stainless doesn't act as a heatsink like aluminum). Perhaps both attribute to the result.

The aluminum will not absorb the engine bay heat as fast as the steel. Not only that but when you have a 3pc intake it will not heat up as fast as a 1pc steel intake. Nevertheless how fast or slow the pipe heats up is irrelivent to the flow of the air inside the intake. I tried different types of filters with both of these intakes and i'm adament that its because the filter has access to more unrestricted air. You can play around with the whole filter thing. Take a smaller or even larger filter that doesnt go lower and watch how hot your pipe gets. Doesnt matter what intake you have.

PhxTriode
04-01-11, 09:28 PM
The aluminum will not absorb the engine bay heat as fast as the steel.

It will indeed this is why we don't see steel or stainless steel heat sinks for electronics. Welding both materials for a number of years I used aluminum to back my stainless to draw heat away from the surface to minimize warping because of its ability to heat at a faster rate than stainless.

For reference
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html

But I will try the filter swap it sounds interesting. Where by chance did you purchase the green filter your referring to?

DrumStix
04-01-11, 09:37 PM
Both intakes went all the way down and touched the brake duct. The w4m is also black and tends to hold, not reflect heat as well.

I know, I suck...

Razorecko
04-01-11, 09:50 PM
Both intakes went all the way down and touched the brake duct. The w4m is also black and tends to hold, not reflect heat as well.

I know, I suck...

Here's the thread I made about my filter setup....

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/226218-best-cai-setup-imho.html

Owning both and having the brake duct pulled out the new era dropped the air filter a good 2-3" lower. Yea black coating on the intake will not help the situation. Hey as long as you got the extra power who can complain. In my above thread I just stated why I went with what I did. And with the power I made I have no urge to 'tinker' any more on the combinations

DrumStix
04-01-11, 10:02 PM
Thats sweet. Do you have any numbers on the ported blower by itself?
When you kicked up the timing what was the final amount up top? 23? 24?
AF ratio?
How does the thing idle with the cam
BTW you suck. Im jealous

I have some data on the ported blower by itself. Previous dyno was 580 and with the ported blower it went to 612. I really think it was less than 32 based on trap speeds and the fact that the dyno operator was babying the car on the 580 pull. He only got about 598 with the ported blower as he started his run a little later in the RPM roll in. I then made some passes and netted 612 based on starting the pull a little earlier and more aggressively (2000 vs 2500). Nothing else changed in the tune. That tells me I probably would have made 590 if I had made the previous pulls after adding the cat back a couple months earlier. Net, 18-22 RWHP seems honest. I gained about a .10 to .15 in the 1/4 and 1-2 mph.
Also, I had made 580 myself prior to adding my cat back. I believe this added at least 15 RWHP based on my increase in traps speeds back then as well. So, all else being equal I would have probably made 590 had I been making the pulls with the cat back and I don't fault the dyno shop for taking it a bit easy on my car before letting "No Lift StiX" hit the rollers.

I can also tell you this new hat retains heat soak quite a bit. The thing is still very warm to the touch in the garage and it's been sitting 2 hours. The much denser aluminum does not eject heat as well as the cast stock unit. I will be doing a test with the stock hat probably next go 'round.

On the 643 RWHP run my coolant temp on the start of the run was 178. Iat1 was 70 and Iat2 was 108. Iat2 is still up there too far for me and the 38 degree difference needs to be dealt with. Special part #1 arrived today. :)

The final timing up top with 100 was 26 commanded and it flickered at 27 a couple times in the log. No false or real knock detected and knock sensor sensitivity is at a very conservative level.

DrumStix
04-01-11, 10:08 PM
Here's the thread I made about my filter setup....

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/226218-best-cai-setup-imho.html

Owning both and having the brake duct pulled out the new era dropped the air filter a good 2-3" lower. Yea black coating on the intake will not help the situation. Hey as long as you got the extra power who can complain. In my above thread I just stated why I went with what I did. And with the power I made I have no urge to 'tinker' any more on the combinations

My brake duct is cut and both elements drop to the same point like where yours is. I see that the CAI may look a little longer on the NEP but my w4m filter might also have been different, longer than yours. It was about 2" longer than the NEP and I took a few pictures. So you are saying the filter you got was not quite as effective and you changed it out? Let me go read your thread so I might be able to comment there as well.

I did extensive testing today, made 14 pulls, had my timing and AF the same and the filter location was as well. Pretty scientific IMO. Thanks for sharing your data as well. Let me go take a look...

Mike02z
04-01-11, 10:10 PM
Wow, nice numbers, congrats!
-Mike

Razorecko
04-01-11, 10:16 PM
My brake duct is cut and both elements drop to the same point like where yours is. I see that the CAI may look a little longer on the NEP but my w4m filter might also have been different, longer than yours. It was about 2" longer than the NEP and I took a few pictures. So you are saying the filter you got was not quite as effective and you changed it out? Let me go read your thread so I might be able to comment there as well.

I did extensive testing today, made 14 pulls, had my timing and AF the same and the filter location was as well. Pretty scientific IMO. Thanks for sharing your data as well. Let me go take a look...

I never used the w4me filter on my intake as I had a previous K&N that I used. I compared the green filter to the K&N Jesse uses in his shop once and the green filter is slimmer but longer. I'll have to take some pictures of the green filter tomorrow to show how much more room there is for the element to draw in air.

cbloveday
04-02-11, 02:20 AM
Sticks nice numbers!

dvandentop
04-02-11, 02:46 AM
love my new era. also now i know what i should shoot for with some of the same mods

buddyg
04-02-11, 07:39 AM
Awesome we need videos!

DrumStix
04-02-11, 08:11 AM
I did not video yesterday but might at the track today. If the guys from the shop are then I'll be able to get some footage.

The DA is not looking that great today but it may be a little better than last time. Hopefully the Baro leaps up.

Cowan480
04-02-11, 08:36 AM
Do u not have a heat exchanger?


I just got back from the dyno. I pulled off the w4m CAI and put on the New Era. I left the timing alone and dialed the MAF calibration back in. The AF curve laid right over the last AF curve in Feb and no other changes were made to the car since the last dyno. This is also the same dyno with no equipment changes.

Net result was 13 more RWHP on pump gas. and the tqe stayed the same The car went from 612 to 625! This is with only a 9.5 lower, ported blower, LS9 cam, New ERA CAI, cat back and tune.

After that I added a couple gallons of 100 for you dyno number lovers, and a couple degrees of timing on the 14th pull now in 2 hours and the car being hot it still laid down 643/575 SAE.

The New Era is cool to the touch as soon as you pop the hood after driving. With the other it remains very hot for 30-45 minutes. This is due to the materials used. Stainless vs aluminum, where the stainless dissipates heat rapidly. Also, the MAF is inserted at the same height as stock and in a different locations that the one I took off, hence the need to tune. The welds are fantastic and the power coating is dark great looks great. I am happy.

DrumStix
04-02-11, 09:36 AM
Do u not have a heat exchanger?

Just the stock one.

NC_Cadzilla
04-02-11, 11:35 AM
good numbers man

shade
04-02-11, 04:14 PM
What timing on the non 100 octane runs?

PhxTriode
04-02-11, 06:49 PM
A lil birdy just called me and it looks like there will be a bit of an upset on the 1/4 mile sticky

DrumStix
04-02-11, 10:57 PM
Sticks nice numbers!

Thanks buddy.

DrumStix
04-02-11, 10:57 PM
What timing on the non 100 octane runs?

26 advance way up there above 1.36 gms/cyl

DrumStix
04-02-11, 11:03 PM
A lil birdy just called me and it looks like there will be a bit of an upset on the 1/4 mile sticky

The thing just roared down the track on that first pass with a 10 minute cool down after driving 85 miles but instead of the air getting cooler and better, it got worse as night fell. There was a 22 mph head/cross wind as well. I left pretty easy on that pass because the track was green and I wanted to check it a bit. The tranny with my tuning updated was FLAWLESS.
I did end up backing it up with some 10:65's with a little better 60's but DA just kept rising. I'm happy. A little better air and I'm the fastest with no NOS (or heads, or headers or upper pulley or HX).

PhxTriode
04-02-11, 11:32 PM
What timing on the non 100 octane runs?

Our crap gas is holding us back Shade. Think of what 5 more degrees of timing would do.

Awesome run Drum. Proof of concept with matched parts.

DrumStix
04-02-11, 11:55 PM
Our crap gas is holding us back Shade. Think of what 5 more degrees of timing would do.

Awesome run Drum. Proof of concept with matched parts.

I'm sure the split on my cam helps some too. Try some 100 octane and see what happens.

Razorecko
04-03-11, 09:42 AM
Hey drum, these dyno #'s and your time slips is that on 100' octane ?

shade
04-03-11, 12:48 PM
F this 91 octane crap. I'm going to open my own gas station.

PhxTriode
04-03-11, 01:22 PM
Buying some 100 octane tomorrow. We will see what happens without all the additives added for the pipeline.

A post boost meth setup is also looking better to me know. Added octane and cooler charge for the hell fire of summer coming.