: Guess the make and model of these four cars.



Jesda
03-31-11, 09:10 PM
http://www.q45.org/gallery/gallery3/var/albums/GM-FortuneCoverFinal.jpg

Each one is a different brand and model.

ThumperPup
03-31-11, 09:12 PM
1 buick
2 pontiac
3 Oldsmobile
4 Chevrolet

jayoldschool
03-31-11, 10:14 PM
Way to get it specific with the models, TP ;)

Surprised you didn't think one was GMC.

cadillac kevin
03-31-11, 10:20 PM
from closest to farthest.
pontiac 6000
olds cutlass (ciera)
buick century
chevy celebrity

RippyPartsDept
03-31-11, 10:27 PM
:yeah: you beat me to it

i was going to say A-bodies around 1988

JimmyH
03-31-11, 11:27 PM
ciera ruined the cutlass name. or maybe it was the calais.

Playdrv4me
03-31-11, 11:27 PM
ciera ruined the cutlass name. or maybe it was the calais.

That is an unfortunately tough call.

JimmyH
03-31-11, 11:29 PM
cutlass calais 442 :lol:

cadillac kevin
04-01-11, 12:30 AM
^ that was an insult to the 442.
4 cylinders
4 O-H cams
2 exhaust tips
is not a 442

gdwriter
04-01-11, 12:31 AM
Wrong order; front to back:

Chevrolet Celebrity
Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
Buick Century
Pontiac 6000

Aron9000
04-01-11, 02:03 AM
:yeah: you beat me to it

i was going to say A-bodies around 1988

Magazine date says August 22, 1983. These would've been 1984 MY. Kind of funny how you thought MY 1988, as GM let these things go unchanged for 7 years before redoing them in 1989 and letting them go another 8 years before killing them.

cadillac kevin
04-01-11, 02:08 AM
^you're right. the first car has the wrong taillights to be a pontiac. some idiot put pontiac rims on the celebrity

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-01-11, 02:12 AM
Those aren't Pontiac rims. Those sport hubcaps were offered on the Celebrities and Caprices throughout the '80s.

RippyPartsDept
04-01-11, 02:31 AM
i think it was about 1982-1988 for that specific body...

Jesda
04-01-11, 03:16 PM
it honestly took me two days to figure them out.

77CDV
04-01-11, 04:20 PM
This is what you get when cost-cutting becomes a mantra.

JimmyH
04-01-11, 04:59 PM
I know everyone loves to rip on GM for badge engineering. But it worked pretty well for them in the 80s. Olds, Pontiac, and Buick all had their share of loyalists. And what's wrong with spreading research costs over several cars?

Playdrv4me
04-02-11, 12:58 AM
Hmmm

77CDV
04-02-11, 03:22 AM
Nothing, as long as you do sufficient work to distinguish the cars from one another. When you end up with identical quadruplets, that's a big problem because it begs the question of why you need so many marques to sell the exact same car. Hence why Pontiac and Oldsmobile are rusting in their graves as we speak.

Jesda
04-02-11, 04:06 AM
I know everyone loves to rip on GM for badge engineering. But it worked pretty well for them in the 80s. Olds, Pontiac, and Buick all had their share of loyalists. And what's wrong with spreading research costs over several cars?

It didn't really work. GM's market share fell from 50% to 35% during that decade, and by 1992 the company was facing bankruptcy.

The brands existed to cater to customers with different preferences for styling, ride, handling, and luxury. As these characteristics were diluted, brand loyalty disappeared. Oldsmobile loyalists in particular bought Oldsmobile, not GM. Pontiac and Chevy customers tended to cross shop back and forth.

Its a bit silly for a business to justify four management structures, four dealer networks, four engineering teams, and four marketing campaigns for four cars that are pretty identical. The brands even had their own office buildings.

Eventually, GM realized its mistake and went back to differentiating its brands, which I'd say they did quite well with the W-body. Unfortunately, by the time they reversed the error their market share was spiraling toward 20%. It costs more to develop four distinct cars for four distinct brands, and without the volume to justify the costs and with once-loyal customers buying Toyotas, several brands had to die.

So, GM finally said RIP to Saab, Hummer, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Saturn. Its kind of odd that Vauxhall coexists alongside Opel in a unified Europe.

Rodya234
04-02-11, 04:44 AM
GM has managed to pull off a few examples of pretty good badge-engineering in the past, so I can't understand why they miss the mark completely in other cases.

Take the 1993 Buick Park Avenue and Cadillac DeVille. Same platform (C-Body), but they're still very different automobiles.

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2009/01/11/19/09/1993_buick_park_avenue_4_dr_ultra-pic-371.jpeg

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2010/04/04/18/22/1993_cadillac_deville_4_dr_std_sedan-pic-8411869510219972610.jpeg


Even on the interior, where badge-engineering usually gives itself away, these cars manage to separate themselves from one another successfully (ignoring the identical center consoles, pedals, and multi-function stalks).

http://www.alpinemotorswyoming.com/upload/1993-Buick-Park-AVE-int-609707.JPG

http://image9.autorevo.com/2981/pics/3139676_0a64556e-2405-4460-94ea-779bf6140a17.jpg

Even what was under the hood was different too :) :
http://www.eppingmotorcompany.com/stock/page2/1993%20Buick%20Park%20Royal%20Blue/1993%20Buick%20Park%20Avenue%20Blue%2010%20Engine. JPG

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1060/2521/2648760012_large.jpg

Playdrv4me
04-02-11, 05:38 AM
^ That's an example of proper PLATFORM engineering, rather than BADGE engineering which is what the primary photo in this thread illustrates.

orconn
04-02-11, 03:55 PM
I think the fallacy of extreme "badge engineering," as practiced by GM and Ford and for that matter Chrysler in the 1980's speaks for itself in the rapid decline in market share experienced by American car companies in the 1980's.

Buyers seeking higher assembly and material quality in their car purchases, not to mentioned variety of choice looked elsewhere and European and Japanese makers accelerated their market expansion in the United States. The herd mentality on the part of the CEO's and their boards of American car companies, in practicing "extreme badge engineering" went a long way to make th U.S. car industry second rate.

Unfortunately this dearth of creative leadership among America's "mature" industries lead to stagnation and vulnerability to price competition from products better engineered and better manufactured from companies overseas. Only the newly emerging technologies with their vital R&D and more flexible and creative management kept these segments from falling prey to the same "lazy" management.

These factors, along with the high cost of labor in the U.S. lead American companies, incetivized by U.S. government policies, to move a high percentage of manufacturing overseas. The American middle class has suffered tremendously, their standard of living only temporarily propped up by easy access to credit and low interest rates.

JimmyH
04-02-11, 05:10 PM
My point is, I know plenty of people who bought those cars. Not because they were good or bad, but it was a Pontiac, or an Oldsmobile, etc. GM had and still has a loyal following. Especially among folks who are not enthusiasts.

I still see some of those old cars on the road from time to time. Because they were great, reliable cars? Hell to the no. Because they are dirt cheap to maintain and fix. You can belittle badge engineering (and GM's soul-less, boring cars) all you want. But it makes alot of sense, economically speaking. To the vast majority of consumers, that's what is most important. It doesn't matter what we enthusiasts think of these types of car. They sell.

ben.gators
04-02-11, 05:34 PM
^
No argue about the fact that each brand has its own loyal followers, and people were buying say Olds just because it is an Olds. But the problem is GM by 1-reducing quality and 2- reducing distinction between its brands sickened its followers and therefore GM lost a part of its followers and the loyal customers start to shop other brands. Now it is couple of years that GM has been building very high quality cars, but still it has not gained the market share it had before. Brand followers are not for life, they have right to change their mind and they will do if the brand is screwed.

And the brand followers were buying an specific brand because of character of the brand. For example Pontiac because it was a sporty car, or Buick because it was an affordable near luxury car. But GM started to make all of its car the same and removed all the distinctions... And it ruined all the connections brand followers had with the brand!

Jesda
04-03-11, 01:46 AM
My point is, I know plenty of people who bought those cars.

But by the late 80s, there were even more people who rejected the cookie cutter cars and bought something else. Heck, my folks had a Celebrity too. It was the only domestic car they ever bought.

Playdrv4me
04-03-11, 01:54 AM
You can make an average car average for average people for an average length of time. And then you have Toyota... losing market share. Since when was average something to strive for and aspire to?

JimmyH
04-03-11, 06:18 PM
We are an extremely small minority. Average is just fine for most car buyers. They want a car that blends in. They don't want to be noticed. I imagine that is why most cars these days look very un-unique.

Jesda
04-03-11, 07:03 PM
We are an extremely small minority. Average is just fine for most car buyers. They want a car that blends in. They don't want to be noticed. I imagine that is why most cars these days look very un-unique.

That doesn't work, not in an auto business that changes more frequently than a pair of socks.

Toyota became #1 globally because it once built exceptionally good cars. Average style yes, but with above average value and dependability.

Typical buyers follow reputation, published reviews, and word of mouth, and reputations are built on real or perceived impressions of quality.

The guy who goes out and buys a Camry does so because he actually believes its "the best" in that category of car. He doesn't buy it because he thinks its average. The problem is, if he has an ownership experience that falls short of high expectations, he may switch brands next time.

johnny kannapo
04-04-11, 11:55 AM
http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/images/car_spotters_guide/1987/1987_Cadillac_Seville.jpg

cadillac kevin
04-04-11, 11:32 PM
^yuck. a seville. looks like a buick.

Sevillian273
04-05-11, 11:00 AM
I drive a Buick Seville.

Yuck.

Jesda
04-05-11, 02:19 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/7/9553898_b958c37894.jpg

RippyPartsDept
04-05-11, 02:41 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nOB-BlXdkvc/RcNm4vuDxGI/AAAAAAAAAB8/YBRZCX9OL4E/s400/ATHF.JPG