: Stock Wheel Shenanigans...



King335i
03-31-11, 01:18 PM
So as some of you may or may not know my wheels recently began the oh-so-glorious habit of clicking like crazy, even at high speeds during cornering. I have had the TSB performed and it fixed the problem for about a week, but the clicking inevitably returned. I know that GM is aware of this issue and that they have produced a newer version of the wheel which supposedly alleviates this issue.

However, I just got off the phone with the warranty manager at my local Cadillac dealership and he told me that he talked with GM technicians and they had never heard of the fixed wheel design and that GM is currently working on the problem, but that the TSB is the only available solution to the issue at the moment.

Is that just bullshit?

baabootoo
03-31-11, 01:41 PM
Since there's pictures of the newer wheel design, let's just say that they're ....misinformed? Is this a surprise to you? Not to me. It's too bad a lot of techs don't read the wealth of info we get here.

mastequila
03-31-11, 02:51 PM
I'm taking my 09 in tomorrow for the clicking. I called earlier this week to ask how long it would take to order the new replacement wheels so I could schedule the service accordingly. They told me that GM isn't replacing the wheels anymore, that the replacement wheels didn't fix the problem and that the recommendation is to perform the "Clean surfaces" routine when the car comes in for regular service.
It would have been nice to get the new wheels due to a scuff mark on mine (my fault) but looks like I'll have to live with them.

King335i
03-31-11, 03:41 PM
This is pretty weak on GM's part. You'd think an outfit such as theirs with access to all kinds of diagnostic doo-dads and gizmos could put something more compelling together than a faulty wheel re-design and a lousy TSB procedure; neither of which fix the actual problem at hand.

Go GM!

RapidRob
03-31-11, 06:29 PM
I had the clicking, took it in and they ordered new wheels in my case. New ones were installed according to the TSB, and there has been no more clicking for 3 months.

Me thinks the above poster was correct, and your dealer is, "misinformed".

Rob

MReiland
03-31-11, 06:41 PM
I will look at the latest TSB's in the morning.

King335i
03-31-11, 10:21 PM
I will look at the latest TSB's in the morning.

Thank you, I appreciate the help. Look forward to seeing what you find.

dvandentop
03-31-11, 10:38 PM
interested in this as well

CTSV4now
04-01-11, 12:48 AM
Below is the TSB that replace wheels. My dealer said this one is no longer current.


#PIC5136B: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels - (Jun 2, 2010)
Subject: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels
Models: 2009 - 2010 Cadillac CTS-V
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This PI was superseded to update wheel part numbers. Please discard PIC5136A.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
A customer may comment on a clicking noise emanating from the front wheels. This condition is noticed at low speed (walking speed) during full wheel lock turns on dry clean pavement (Full lock parking lot maneuver). The clicking noise is generally noted as approximately 1 to 4 "clicks" per wheel revolution. The cause may be interaction between wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on rotor.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Complete the procedure below on both front wheels.

Note: It is not necessary to clean the rear wheels for the "clicking" condition.

•Remove the front wheels.
•Clean the rotor top hat as follows.
• 2.1 Use a clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378556 or equivalent.

• 2.2 Clean the wheel mounting surface of the rotor (rotor top hat). During cleaning process be sure to clean the rotor near the wheel pilot at the center of the rotor.

•Replace the front wheels with the appropriate part number listed below which have a revised mounting surface.
20951880 Painted Wheel

20951881 Polished Wheel

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

LFTW8S
04-01-11, 11:27 AM
So as some of you may or may not know my wheels recently began the oh-so-glorious habit of clicking like crazy, even at high speeds during cornering. I have had the TSB performed and it fixed the problem for about a week, but the clicking inevitably returned. I know that GM is aware of this issue and that they have produced a newer version of the wheel which supposedly alleviates this issue.

However, I just got off the phone with the warranty manager at my local Cadillac dealership and he told me that he talked with GM technicians and they had never heard of the fixed wheel design and that GM is currently working on the problem, but that the TSB is the only available solution to the issue at the moment.

Is that just bullshit?

I have the new wheels (per the TSB) and they click worse than the originals. GM needs to make a fix that works.

JFJr
04-01-11, 11:27 AM
Be sure that the "new" lug nut torque value (158#-ft.) is being used. I doubt that all the techs are using it, and that could be the reason the clicking returns. I had the TSB done a few years ago, and the clicking has not returned even though I had new tires mounted since then.

Jud

RippyPartsDept
04-01-11, 01:04 PM
Here's the updated PIC

Maybe Matt can clear up the technical differences between a TSB and a PIC

#PIC5136D: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels - keywords click tire - (Nov 16, 2010)

Subject: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels

Models: 2009 - 2011 Cadillac CTS-V
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This PI was superseded to add Premium care information. Please discard PIC5136C.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
A customer may comment on a clicking noise emanating from the front wheels. This condition is noticed at low speed (walking speed) during full wheel lock turns on dry clean pavement (Full lock parking lot maneuver). The clicking noise is generally noted as approximately 1 to 4 "clicks" per wheel revolution.

The CTS-V has lightweight high performance front rotors with an aluminum center. The clicking sound is caused by interaction between the wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on the brake rotor caused by the aluminum-to-aluminum interface. With properly mounted wheels, and the wheel nuts torqued to specification, this "clicking" is NOT a safety issue. At this time there is no permanent solution however, General Motors' Engineering is aware of this condition and is working to resolve the concern. Until a permanent solution is developed, a cleaning process is recommended as a regular maintenance item.

The cleaning maintenance procedure described below should be performed as required at each oil change per the Oil Life Monitor system (approximately every 7500 miles) or whenever tires are replaced. This cleaning process is added to the 2011 Cadillac Premium Care Maintenance Program. For 2009-2010 CTS-Vs, the cleaning procedure should be used if the customer is dissatisfied with the noise, and should be performed at tire replacement and/or at oil changes.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Complete the procedure below on both front wheels, It is not necessary to clean the rear wheels for the "clicking" condition.

Note: Do NOT replace the Front wheel or brake rotor for the clicking condition.

Procedure:
Remove wheel
Clean wheel as follows:
a) Use clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378556 or equivalent.

b) Wipe the mounting surface of the wheel to remove any residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the wheel mounting surface. Be careful not to use the Brake Cleaner on the painted or clear coated surfaces of the wheel. It is also helpful to use a Scotch-Brite Cleaning Pad to aid in cleaning. Be sure NOT to use the scotch pads (Roloc disc) on the aluminum material. All cleaning MUST be done by hand, do NOT use ANY air or power tools!

Clean the rotor top hat as follows:
a) Use clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner 12378392 or equivalent.

b) Clean the wheel mounting surface of the rotor (rotor top hat) to remove any residual grey or black material that has accumulated on the rotor. During the cleaning process be sure to clean the rotor near the wheel pilot at the center of the rotor. It is also helpful to use a Scotch-Brite Cleaning Pad to aid in cleaning. Be sure to NOT use scotch pads (Roloc discs) on the aluminum material. All cleaning MUST be done by hand, do NOT use ANY air or power tools!

Reinstall wheels
Note: Be sure to thoroughly dry the wheel and rotor prior to installation on vehicle. The wheel nuts should be tightened to a service torque of 215Nm (158 ft-lbs).

Warranty Claim Information:
For 2011 CTS-Vs, refer to the latest Cadillac Premium Care Maintenance program information for the labor operation to be used.

For 2009-2010 CTS-Vs, use Labor Operation:

H9752 - Clean Mating Surfaces of Wheel and Rotor to Correct Noise Concern (includes both sides) Labor Time =.2 hour

Note: This time was developed with the expectation that this cleaning procedure is being performed at the time of regular oil changes or tire replacements.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

Korn_11
04-01-11, 01:59 PM
To contribute to the thread, I have a 2011 V Sedan that has this exact issue. Apparently its not fixed...

baabootoo
04-01-11, 02:19 PM
Be sure that the "new" lug nut torque value (158#-ft.) is being used. I doubt that all the techs are using it, and that could be the reason the clicking returns. I had the TSB done a few years ago, and the clicking has not returned even though I had new tires mounted since then.

Jud

I'd love to "un-torque" some of these wheels to see where they're at too.

mrl859
04-03-11, 01:15 AM
158 ft/lbs seems like an awful lot. I thought I read 110 in the owner's manual. The LAST thing you want to do it distort the rotors by over-torquing.

King335i
04-03-11, 09:22 AM
158 ft/lbs seems like an awful lot. I thought I read 110 in the owner's manual. The LAST thing you want to do it distort the rotors by over-torquing.

This is what my mechanic is worried about, he says that 185 lb-ft is too high, could potentially cause damage.

Torxila
04-03-11, 10:19 AM
This is what my mechanic is worried about, he says that 185 lb-ft is too high, could potentially cause damage.

185 lb-ft IS too high, but 158 lb-ft is what is recommended.

OldRoadDawg
04-03-11, 11:02 AM
158 ft/lbs seems like an awful lot. I thought I read 110 in the owner's manual. The LAST thing you want to do it distort the rotors by over-torquing.

I've never experienced the 'clicking'. Always believed that keeping the mating surfaces clean and, when mounting the wheels, to be sure they are drawn up evenly by running the wheel nuts down by hand until fully seated. Then torquing in a crossing pattern, increasing the torque in graduated steps with no load on the wheels, up to 140 lb ft. Drive it a few miles and re-torque.

I know the TSB recommended 158, but I've had no problem at 140.

How it reads in the 2009 Owners manual:
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/dawgpics_photos/CTS-V_Miscellaneous/09_Mnl_WhlNutTq.jpg

Domsz06
04-03-11, 12:00 PM
mine are powdercoated, and torqued to 158, had the car for a year, and it never clicked before i powdercoated or after. I really think the clicking is uncloean mating surfaces or not torqued down tight enough. My wheel guy couldn't believe it was to 158, he says they only go to 100, but he did mine to 158 and still not any clicking.

King 335i, did you torque yours down to 158 after you cleaned the surfaces? If you have a jack and a torque wrench do it your self and try the the fix yourself....