: change to synthetic to help oil consumption?



mhamilton
03-24-11, 01:55 PM
Was wondering if anyone here had any experience changing from regular to synthetic oil in the N*? A friend was saying it may help clean up deposits around the oil rings if that is what is causing my high usage.

I know my engine was on synthetic for a while before my aunt bought the car because "synt" was written on the front cam cover. But I know since around 2006 that it has not seen anything except regular oil. I've used regular oil because it uses so much that it's cheaper to do that.

I don't want to get into a war on what oil is better, I know everyone has their preference, and I know these engines shipped with regular oil. Maybe I'll just watch for a sale at Walmart on Mobile1 and give it a try next oil change.

00 Deville
03-24-11, 02:14 PM
I would be surprised to here that switching would help with oil consumption. I'm sure you've tried the usually 2nd gear WOT runs that helps rotate the rings. I do run the Mobile 1 from Wal-mart in the 5qt jugs... I think i paid around $24 for one the last time I was in there. The Castrol synthetic jug's are sometimes a couple dollars cheaper.

x2 on the oil wars..lol

ThumperPup
03-24-11, 02:33 PM
I used to run Mobil 1 full syn in my Seville
just after the 2nd time the engine was opened up this time new block total rebuild i started off with Mobil Conventional
then i wanted to go to a semi Syn and I cant find that in Mobil1 anymore i know they used to make it but i dont think they do anymore
so iv been using Valvoline in the Blue bottle Dura Blend the last 2k going to run it one more time for consistency and after that switch back to Mobil 1 full syn and see where my oil consumption is at with the first oil change on conventional i was at 1qt the first 600 miles another 1qt at 2000 miles and
with the Semi Syn dura blend i just checked the oil the other day and added half a qt at 1400 miles and still looking good so not going to add anymore just check in the next 1000 miles
if i switch over to full syn and get the same then ill probably just switch back to the dura blend and be happy with 2800 Miles to a QT

mhamilton
03-24-11, 03:20 PM
I'm sure you've tried the usually 2nd gear WOT runs that helps rotate the rings. I do run the Mobile 1 from Wal-mart in the 5qt jugs... I think i paid around $24 for one the last time I was in there.

Oh yes, and the upper engine cleaner as well. I'm thinking the oil splashing around on the oil control rings might be more effective in removing deposits from those. What kind of consumption do you see on your N*s?


with the Semi Syn dura blend i just checked the oil the other day and added half a qt at 1400 miles and still looking good so not going to add anymore just check in the next 1000 miles
if i switch over to full syn and get the same then ill probably just switch back to the dura blend and be happy with 2800 Miles to a QT

So you're doing 2800 miles/quart with the brand new engine? That's 3x better than mine, and it's certainly not bad, but I don't know about these N*s with this oil usage. I have 200k mile Chevy engines that don't go through oil like this, it's annoying as hell.

00 Deville
03-24-11, 03:35 PM
Oh yes, and the upper engine cleaner as well. I'm thinking the oil splashing around on the oil control rings might be more effective in removing deposits from those. What kind of consumption do you see on your N*s?

I'm seeing about 2500-3000 miles per quart on both of them the 00 has 89K and the 02 has 68K on the clock.

Ranger
03-25-11, 12:16 AM
A friend was saying it may help clean up deposits around the oil rings if that is what is causing my high usage.
Just my opinion, but I'd doubt it. The oil consumption, as I understand it is from a carbon build up on the compression rings, not the oil scraper rings. I think the "oil consumption" thread in the Technical Archives bears that out. That said, and I'm not sure, but maybe it PRODUCES less carbon when it does get past the rings and burned in the cylinder. IF that is the case, it would help, but only if used BEFORE the carbon is created. That however, is the subject for a whole new oil war.

mhamilton
03-25-11, 07:06 PM
I don't know myself... I think I will try some synth next oil change just to see what happens.

For some reason, I remember reading that 2000-era engines with low mileage and excess oil consumption, a TSB told dealers to replace the rings, discarding the compression ring and only replacing the oil control rings. Maybe I'm thinking of something else, I'll have to do some searching...

johnny kannapo
03-25-11, 07:57 PM
The synthetics will aid in cleaning better for a longer period due to the additive packages that are forumulated in.

There are plenty of excellent conventional oil brands out there that clean very well & protect just as well they just don't last as quite as long before the add-packages wear down.

The additives just weaken a bit sooner because the oil has a shorter life span.

If you use or leak oil or use a quart every 1500mi or less it would be wise to stick with conventional due to it costing twice as much. You can go OLM distance of 6500-7500mi or more with a good conventional meaning you would add 4-5 qts fresh during a oil change interval if it is using, replacing 75% of that oil.

If you think cleaning the rings will help a cylinder chemical soak would be better before you change oil.

ThumperPup
03-26-11, 12:31 AM
So you're doing 2800 miles/quart with the brand new engine? That's 3x better than mine, and it's certainly not bad, but I don't know about these N*s with this oil usage. I have 200k mile Chevy engines that don't go through oil like this, it's annoying as hell.

basicly it was a rebuilt engine mine rebuilt with new block and eveyring els was cleaned up carbonized and checked to be true so basicly yes it could be said its a brand new engine
and yeah i might be off but yeah its about a 1 qt every 2800-3000 miles right now
its only got about 8400 miles on the engine maybe 8500 i think
im guessing im probably past the breaking in point but i also guess it could be possible that it might only get better between now and then if it still needs to be broken in more but i think thats a far fetch
i think after the next oil change im going to just let it go untill the oil light comes on and if what others are saying is right and its 2qt low when the light comes on and not about 1 qt like the owners manual says then ill add 2 qts and see if thats true
but if i can get 5500-6000 miles before the oil light comes on then ill be happy cause i get the oil changed eveyr 5500-6000 and that will make me happy every 2 months and thats cool with me
ill right up again what im at between now and the time my oil light comes on

My 4.6 DOHC Intech Detuned Cobra Engine is what i called it
in my lincolns had them in all of my 90s area lincolns
they got me about 4k to a qt of oil now those i miss i could go 5-6k easy without having to add oil between oil changes

Submariner409
03-27-11, 02:38 PM
My car was built in 02/02 and delivered in the first week of June, 2002. The original owner changed the oil/filter at 4,000 miles and went to Mobil 1 (synthetic) and continued that every 5,000 miles until I bought it in 11/05 at 28,000. I do my own oil changes and use Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 synthetic and a WIX 51522 filter, change it once a year (I only drive it 7,500 miles/year, max) and get over 4,000 miles/quart.

mhamilton
03-30-11, 08:32 PM
Sounds like it would have done the most good if it was started on synthetic and run there from day 1. But that's hindsight. I know there must have been some reason for a previous mechanic to run it on synthetic, and it certainly can't hurt to try. I think I will go ahead and get some synth on sale and give it a try. If after 7-10k miles there is no difference at all, I'll go back to regular. Couldn't hurt to try.

I will post back with the results! (may be a while, still at 80% from my last change)

RippyPartsDept
03-30-11, 08:37 PM
pup... i think all the mobil1 branded oils are full synthetic... to get mobil's semi-syn (aka synthetic blend) you can get the 'drive clean 7500' branded mobil

ThumperPup
03-30-11, 08:52 PM
i cant even find the 7500 in the stores in cleveland
all they have are the

5000 the high mile and the full syn

auto zone advacned auto parts walmart murrays orielys napa
no one carrys the 7500 or the 10000 or the semi syn anymore

i think mobil and mobile 1 just did away with them

ThumperPup
03-30-11, 08:59 PM
http://www.mobil.us/USA-English-LCW/carengineoils.aspx

if that link works right
it takes you to mobil 1 oil products

at the presant time they only have
Super 5000
Super High Mile
Supper sythetic wich is same as there full synthetic
adtended performs Synthetic
high mile sythetic
fuel saver w0's sythetic

RippyPartsDept
03-30-11, 09:16 PM
we still get teh 7500 regularly
our pre2003 saabs require a semi-syn and the 7500 is the 'recommended' oil for those cars

edit: yeah i don't see drive clean listed on their 'brands' link anymore now... though if you search their site for drive clean you get a result with the spec sheet ... hmmm

ThumperPup
03-30-11, 09:19 PM
i dont even see the 7500 on there website anymore
you have stalk that maybe just left over or do you order it from mobil one each month or something ?
cause i dont even see it on there website anymore

ThumperPup
03-30-11, 09:21 PM
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_Clean_7500_5W-30.aspx

just searched there website more and found this link here

they no longer offer semi sythetic products


hey rippy id ask you to hook me up with a few cases when you ship the weather stripping but that would be a but load on shipment costs i think lol

RippyPartsDept
03-30-11, 09:32 PM
yeah, ground is cheaper than anything else tho...

we get our oils form a large distributor here in state
it's part of GM's 'oil program'

very possible that they are on their last batch of the drive clean and we will eventually be switching to something else
... only time will tell though

ThumperPup
03-30-11, 09:35 PM
if my trip was not 4 months off i would be like order me a few cases and id pick them up when im down in Carroll planning on swiging down your way whyll im down there also but thats in July so not going to do that
i know iv called everywhere when i was trying to find it evne the mobil one instant oil change spots said no dice

ThumperPup
03-30-11, 09:37 PM
iv seen about 4 of the shops around here MR Tire NTB good year and conrads have changed over form penzoil and mobil 1 to valvoline
in the past 6 months

eldoramous
04-11-11, 12:48 PM
Hey, all. New guy here chiming in...

Synthetic oil is never recommended for new engines - that's why every new vehicle that I've had comes from the factory with regular old dinosaur juice in the crankcase. If you use synthetic from new, the rings will never seat in properly.

The factories generally recommend switching to synthetic oils at the first oil change.

But you have to remember that synthetic oils flow better than the good ol' stuff. So if you have oil consumption problems, including leaks, or if the problem that is causing your oil consumption, such as dirty rings, is not fixed by switching to synthetic, you most likely will experience higher oil consumption with the synthetic oil than you would with regular old (and less pricey) petroleum oil.

That the synthetics flow better, especially in a cold engine at start-up, is one of the primary reasons why engines generally last longer when you use syn oils. But that's why what may be a drip drip with petroleum oilcan turn into a small stream with synthoil...

And BTW, when such shops as mentioned above switch from one brand to another, it usually is because of the pricing that the wholesaler is giving them and has little to do with one brand being any better than the others - they are all good and they are very competitive with each other.

Ranger
04-11-11, 12:54 PM
The Corvettes and I believe the new Northstars come from the factory with synthetic oil.

00 Deville
04-11-11, 01:04 PM
Synthetic oil is never recommended for new engines - that's why every new vehicle that I've had comes from the factory with regular old dinosaur juice in the crankcase. If you use synthetic from new, the rings will never seat in properly.

Mobil 1 has been the factory fill for all Porsche engines since 1994. It's also the factory fill for...


Acura RDX
Aston Martin DB9, DBS, Rapide and Vantage
All Bentley Vehicles
Bristol Fighter
Buick Lacrosse, Regal GT and Excelle
Cadillac BLS Twin Turbo Diesel
Chevrolet CR8
Chrysler 300C SRT8
Holden HSV
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
Nissan GTR
Opel Insignia
Saab 9-3 TTiD
Vauxhall VXR8
Chevrolet Camaro SS
Chevrolet Corvette
Mercedes AMG

RippyPartsDept
04-11-11, 02:23 PM
And isn't the synthetic oil molecule larger than the dino oil molecule?

eldoramous
04-11-11, 05:25 PM
Don't know about any of that. It's not the size of the molecule that is important here, it's the viscosity and flow, especially at cold temperatures. Probably the biggest advantage of synthetics is their ability to tolerate wider temperature ranges - they flow more willingly when cold and they stand up to higher temps without breakdown than the petroleum oils can.

On some of those vehicles mentioned above it's possible that they run the engine w/ petroil to seat the rings and then switch to synthetic prior to delivering the cars to their owners. But I can't imagine that any of those high volume maufacturers would do that.


I was only repeating what was explained to me when I bought my last new vehicle - a Buell 1125R motorcycle. It came with dinojuice in the motor, and the first scheduled oil change is at 700 miles, and that you can and probably should put synthoil in then...

And that if you take the new bike home from the dealership in a truck (as I did), that you should definitely not swap out in favor of the synthetic stuff until the bike has been ridden that 700 or so miles or else your rings would probably never seat in properly and your engine would always use more oil than if you had followed their recommendations...


I don't claim to have the brains to figure this stuff out for myself. Heck, I have enough trouble remembering things that I've been taught...

Submariner409
04-11-11, 05:26 PM
Synthetic oil is never recommended for new engines - that's why every new vehicle that I've had comes from the factory with regular old dinosaur juice in the crankcase. If you use synthetic from new, the rings will never seat in properly.

you most likely will experience higher oil consumption with the synthetic oil than you would with regular old (and less pricey) petroleum oil.

Wrong and wrong. There is absolutely no basis in fact for this pair of old wives tales. Yes, the blogs are full of oil wars and CF itself is no stranger to oil wars.

Cases in point: My car runs Pennzoil 5W-30 Platinum synthetic and gets 4,500 miles to the quart. My truck runs the same brand in a 5W-20 weight and gets over 6,000 miles to the quart.............and both vehicles see all sorts of driving conditions in all sorts of weather. The Olds 455 in my boat runs Pennzoil LongLife 15W-40 - it's a fleet HD truck oil (dino), and the engine uses a quart every 100 hours - at an equivalent load to ~60 mph (17" of vacuum at 1850 rpm) - that's a quart every 6,000.

As in every oil war, engines are different, drivers are different, and YRMV.

(Add Ferrari and Lamborghini to the factory fill synthetic list. .................and, from an old Triumph motorcycle scrambles racer, a motorcycle engine is a very different type of critter from a modern automotive engine.)

eldoramous....you need to hop over to Kent Island........ SW on 301 or W on 50 or 404 from DE. I'm always good for a hydraulic lunch. Come through Greensboro - nice drive.