: The sporty Lexus, or Lexuses, or Lexi, whatever the plural of Lexus is.



Aron9000
03-17-11, 12:24 AM
So I'm thinking about buying this:

http://www.carsetc.com/used/Lexus/1993-Lexus-SC+300-83de90770a0a0065016b340a7fa30787.htm

1993 Lexus SC300, 2JZ inline 6, 5 speed manual, RWD, 102k miles, black on neutral leather. I've always loved the "look" of these, and the inside is VERY nicely appointed as well. I've been wanting something "nice" that's sporty with a manual transmission. Never considered one of these because they're so hard to find in good condition with the manual trans.

The other lexus model I really love is the last gen IS300. Once again, it would have the same 2jz motor/5 speed trans. People have said the handling is on par with a 3 series Bimmer in those. But they're still damn expensive now days, $6000 like that SC300 would buy you a ragged out IS300 with 200k miles.


Anyways, the only real issue I have with that SC300 is for it to be a potential $$$ pit. I know people say Lexus is way more reliable than the german brands, but I'm thinking stuff like:
Digital instruments taking a dump
Climate control system tearing up
Radio taking a dump
Random electrical issues
Clutch

Is there any truth that parts are cheaper for a Lexus than a BMW/Audi/Benz? I mean its basically a Toyota underneath, hell the SC was sold as the Toyota Soarer in Japan.

So, does that SC300 look like a money pit to you guys?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-17-11, 12:27 AM
Nice choice, I always thought the first generation SC was a far underrated car, and a good looker too, albeit a bit small.

It's basically a naturally aspirated Supra in a tux, am I right?

The Lexuses from this era are generally very reliable, but I've seen a few examples of LS400s from those years where the ECC display is faded out, so you never know what temp it's set at and where's it's blowing at, and I think the radio has been known to do the same thing too.

Stingroo
03-17-11, 12:29 AM
Do it. Five-speed SC300s are HARD to find. Chad's got it right, it's pretty much a Supra in a tux and missing a turbo (but that, of course, can be changed...).



Also, don't worry about the plural of Lexus. Toyota will see this thread and use it as an ad campaign next month, and we'll find out what it really is.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-17-11, 12:31 AM
I really love those '90s era Lexuses....so classy looking, so well built and engineered. Take a look at the leather in that car, so clean and free of stress marks, and it looks as though that leather is still soft and aromatic. You won't see many other cars from 1993 with leather that still looks that nice.

Aron9000
03-17-11, 12:32 AM
It's basically a naturally aspirated Supra in a tux, am I right?


Pretty much. Some of the Supra guys have bought these and put a turbo on them. We're talking like 500whp without ever opening up the motor, everything in the 2JZ is forged, stock.:bonkers:

I know the 5 speed trans is different from the Supra 6 speed, and will tear up if you start putting some serious horsepower into it. But yeah, all those go fast goodies are like 5-10k, modding a 2JZ is NOT cheap.

Stingroo
03-17-11, 12:34 AM
No, it is not, but it can be very VERY fruitful. :thumbsup:

drewsdeville
03-17-11, 12:47 AM
it's pretty much a Supra in a tux and missing a turbo (but that, of course, can be changed...).


YES. It will take anything you can reasonably throw at it. Forged crank and rods from the factory, well balanced, with 7 MASSIVE main bearing journals (is there anything in an automotive engine with bigger?). If you can manage to break it, you've done something horribly wrong.

Who cares about the coveted sound of a V8 when you can listen to a JZ all day?

This guy's got it right, FF to 1:05 and turn up the volume -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZqtJTlXON8&feature=related

cadillac kevin
03-17-11, 12:55 AM
holy shit. thats is one of the most bad ass camaros I've ever seen.
besides, if americans put blown chevy mills in datsuns, why not?

Jesda
03-17-11, 01:01 AM
Its a car with mechanical credibility and world-beating quality to back it up.

Do it.

gary88
03-17-11, 01:22 AM
RWD
I6
Manual trans

I see nothing wrong here :cool2:

Aron9000
03-17-11, 01:24 AM
Its a car with mechanical credibility and world-beating quality to back it up.

Do it.


Of course the Caddy would have to go if I bought this. I need three cars right now like I need a hole in the head. It might be an acceptable replacement though. It meets four of my five requirements for any car I consider. Looks great, comfortable, drives nice, reliable, doesn't meet the cheap parts/easy to service thing though. Caddy doesn't meet the "drives nice" part, but otherwise it has all the other catergories covered in spades.

I've also been thinking that this car has pretty much hit rock bottom as far as depreciation goes. If I drive it for 3 years and 30k miles, I could probably sell it for the same $$$ I bought it for. I'm thinking the dealer might not have a clue what he's sitting on, and he's probably been sitting on it for a while, who buys a Lexus with a manual trans, right?

I'm also thinking that if the dealer listed this on a Supra forum, he'd have it sold within 48 hours.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-17-11, 01:25 AM
You guys make it sound like the 2JZ is the best inline six ever....is it really better than some of the stuff that BMW made and is world famous for?

Aron9000
03-17-11, 01:26 AM
RWD
I6
Manual trans

I see nothing wrong here :cool2:

Its definetly Lexus's take on the BMW 635csi, if BMW had built a 6 series in the 90's.

Stingroo
03-17-11, 03:19 AM
You guys make it sound like the 2JZ is the best inline six ever....is it really better than some of the stuff that BMW made and is world famous for?

I would venture to say that's a big ten-four good buddy.

It's a Toyota product that even I can appreciate and respect. This should be a sign. :lol:

Playdrv4me
03-17-11, 03:53 AM
You guys make it sound like the 2JZ is the best inline six ever....is it really better than some of the stuff that BMW made and is world famous for?

To Toyota fanbois? Yes... In general? Uhh, no. The BMW inline six has a velvet smoothness and incredibly linear power delivery that is almost, ALMOST incomparable. And besides, even if the engine itself were better, the vehicle it's mated to handles and behaves entirely differently than a well tuned BMW chassis. Well, the old BMWs anyway. The new ones are rolling marshmallow turds.

*That said*... I love Lexuses almost as much as I love BMWs and whilst design-wise I find the Supra far more appealing than the SC (the SC headlights always turn yellow which bugs the shit out of me, and they're not easy to find), the SC is a STOUT, reliable daily driver with A LOT of potential for insanity under the hood. This is why SC300s and ESPECIALLY SC300s with manual transmissions typically go for as much or more than the V8s. You have uncovered quite a find there.

Chad covered about the only common problem I know with that generation of Lexus, which is that the displays for the radio and climate control turn black. When the vehicles were originally engineered, they were built for Japan's milder climates and the extreme heat in the U.S. was never anticipated. As a result, the displays essentially burn up in the heat. Over at the Lexus forums and on Ebay, there are plenty of guys that sell replacement LCD modules. The V8 is known for a power steering arrangement that leaks onto the alternator, taking that out as well. Of course, they also use belts that are more annoying to keep up with than the chains on the I6.

Go for it.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-17-11, 09:22 AM
If I ever decide to get back into the premier class of luxury sedans again, I'll be going with an LS400 first. Peerless reliability (for it's class), good looks, lots of great luxury features and a very well engineered car overall make for a solid choice.

Lord Cadillac
03-17-11, 10:51 AM
Is the engine any different in the automatic SC300 than the manual? And is it the same engine used all the way up until the SC430 came about?

Playdrv4me
03-17-11, 04:34 PM
If I ever decide to get back into the premier class of luxury sedans again, I'll be going with an LS400 first. Peerless reliability (for it's class), good looks, lots of great luxury features and a very well engineered car overall make for a solid choice.

Definitely in my top 5 favorite cars of all time. You will *not* regret it if you ever get one, but it has to be a 98-2000. 8k will get you a quality car with dedicated searching, but you have to be willing to travel.


Is the engine any different in the automatic SC300 than the manual? And is it the same engine used all the way up until the SC430 came about?

Far as I know it's the same engine and power rating.

hueterm
03-17-11, 05:12 PM
If I ever decide to get back into the premier class of luxury sedans again, I'll be going with an LS400 first. Peerless reliability (for it's class), good looks, lots of great luxury features and a very well engineered car overall make for a solid choice.

Same here if I ever need another 10+ year old mile burner, that's a sedan anyway. Without hesitation.

orconn
03-17-11, 05:16 PM
If I should ever be in the market for a super annuated Lexus, the SC300 with manual trans would be the one!

Aron9000
03-18-11, 02:11 AM
Got off the phone with the dealer today. Sounds like a real creampuff, one owner, no accidents, original paint, etc.

Going to have to wait until Monday to go see it. Car is in Knoxville, about 3 hours away. My sister lives up there, but she's on vacation this week, so she can't stop in and look at it. So I'm going to ride up there Monday with my mom, who has my sister's dog right now since she's been out of town. Hopefully it won't sell before then.

I'm also having a quandry of how to get my $$$ up there. There are NO US banks in Knoxville(my bank). Maybe open an account with a bank that has both locations in Knoxville and Nashville? Or just get a cashier's check for $4800 or so, and bring about $1200 in 100 dollar bills. Any time I've done a long distance purchase its been with a private seller and we agreed on the price ahead of time.

Playdrv4me
03-18-11, 02:26 AM
Got off the phone with the dealer today. Sounds like a real creampuff, one owner, no accidents, original paint, etc.

Going to have to wait until Monday to go see it. Car is in Knoxville, about 3 hours away. My sister lives up there, but she's on vacation this week, so she can't stop in and look at it. So I'm going to ride up there Monday with my mom, who has my sister's dog right now since she's been out of town. Hopefully it won't sell before then.

I'm also having a quandry of how to get my $$$ up there. There are NO US banks in Knoxville(my bank). Maybe open an account with a bank that has both locations in Knoxville and Nashville? Or just get a cashier's check for $4800 or so, and bring about $1200 in 100 dollar bills. Any time I've done a long distance purchase its been with a private seller and we agreed on the price ahead of time.

That car looks like it backs up the dealer's claims, at least from the photos. Check it out real good though, because Austin has sent me links to cars from there in the past and while a lot of them look really good, some of them also look REALLY suspicious.

Aron9000
03-18-11, 05:52 AM
That car looks like it backs up the dealer's claims, at least from the photos. Check it out real good though, because Austin has sent me links to cars from there in the past and while a lot of them look really good, some of them also look REALLY suspicious.

Are you talking about that Cars Etc dealer? I've done a little bit of research about the company, seems to be pretty legit and sucessful family owned "buy here, pay here" type of lot. This place seems to be rather legitimate, which means that probably 60-80% of their cars are legit, no wreck, clean cars they got a good deal on at auction. Of course they've probably bought some lemons they are trying to pass off as legit for $4-8k. I'm not new at this go around, and even if this car is a total bust, at least I got to see my sister and spend some good time with her.

Playdrv4me
03-18-11, 06:26 AM
Are you talking about that Cars Etc dealer? I've done a little bit of research about the company, seems to be pretty legit and sucessful family owned "buy here, pay here" type of lot. This place seems to be rather legitimate, which means that probably 60-80% of their cars are legit, no wreck, clean cars they got a good deal on at auction. Of course they've probably bought some lemons they are trying to pass off as legit for $4-8k. I'm not new at this go around, and even if this car is a total bust, at least I got to see my sister and spend some good time with her.

Yea Cars Etc. Austin's search area is similar to yours so he sent me a lot of stuff from there. They keep a lot of unusual things like cool lifted trucks and such too. I'll be really curious to hear your take on the dealer and the car when you get back to us, because it could be a good one for me to keep in mind in the future (the dealer).

drewsdeville
03-18-11, 11:23 AM
Of course, they also use belts that are more annoying to keep up with than the chains on the I6.

Go for it.

Er...If you are referring to the timing components, I'm pretty sure the JZ's always used a belt. They are also non-interference, though I don't know anything about the V8.

Playdrv4me
03-18-11, 02:36 PM
Yea you're right. It's the non-interference design I was thinking of. The V8 WAS non interference until they added variable valve timing in 1998.

Aron9000
03-18-11, 03:24 PM
^Er, you're both wrong. The 2JZ is an interference engine with a timing belt. You change it at 60,000 mile intervals, so this car should have it done already with a sticker under the hood stating the service has been done. At least any halfway reputable shop or toyota/lexus dealer will put a sticker under the hood.

drewsdeville
03-18-11, 11:01 PM
The 2JZ is an interference engine....

You sure? You can probably MAKE it interference with large enough cams, which I'm sure many have, but I was certain it was non-interference from the factory.

EDIT: a google search brings up a load of sources that interestingly show we are both right. Apparently, the regular '90-'97 JZ engines are non-interference. When Toyota introduced variable valve timing to the engines in 1998, they became interference.

Aron9000
03-21-11, 08:34 PM
Went and looked at it today, they're out of their mind if they think they'll ever get anything close to $5900 for that car. Exterior had several huge scratches down the passenger side, clearcoat was starting to fade on the left front fender, chrome was falling off the rims. Inside all the leather was dried out, driver's seat was ripped up, and the red needles on the gauges didn't light up. Door panel on the driver's side was busted, vents in the dash were broken, climate control display was burned out.

Best part of it was the tires, one of them was almost flat and they had to put air in it, another had a huge sidewall bulge, all of them had zero tread.

I asked them about all this shit on the phone, said the tires were good, leather was nice except for that "small" rip in the driver's seat, no body damage.

I will say the car was extremely solid mechanically, rode nice, good brakes, no weird noises, engine pulled hard, no squeaks or rattles. It was freaking quiet as well, and the clutch/shifter were very user friendly and a lot of fun. The 2JZ inline six wasn't terribly quick, but very torquey and moved out nicely.

Anyways, this would've been a good buy at $2500 or $3000. If the interior was minty and everything worked, I could've overlooked the scratches and bad tires and bought it.

ben.gators
03-21-11, 08:57 PM
^
Wow, That is interesting.... so much problem....There is no way one can realize those blemishes and problems just by observing the pictures ....! That is why it is strongly suggested to check the car in person and don't rely on the pictures!

The bottom line is it is an 18 year old car, and the dried leather, faded clear coat, scratches here and there, and ripped up seats are not that much unlikely for such an old car. And for the same reason that asking price for such an old car, no matter it is a lexus or Cadillac, is too high!

And just for the records, this 18 year old car is not going to be free of mechanical problems! As the age shows itself in terms of paint or leather seat blemishes, it has the same effects on hoses, bearings, bushing, gaskets, pulleys, etc....

Aron9000
03-21-11, 09:17 PM
^That is true, at 18 years old stuff will wear out. I did call the Toyota dealer where this thing was serviced, timing belt, clutch, and rear main seal were done at 88k. That's probably $1500 worth of work at a dealer, too bad it needed at least $1500 worth of cosmetic work/tires/wheels to bring it up to snuff IMO.

Playdrv4me
03-21-11, 11:31 PM
Went and looked at it today, they're out of their mind if they think they'll ever get anything close to $5900 for that car. Exterior had several huge scratches down the passenger side, clearcoat was starting to fade on the left front fender, chrome was falling off the rims. Inside all the leather was dried out, driver's seat was ripped up, and the red needles on the gauges didn't light up. Door panel on the driver's side was busted, vents in the dash were broken, climate control display was burned out.

Best part of it was the tires, one of them was almost flat and they had to put air in it, another had a huge sidewall bulge, all of them had zero tread.

I asked them about all this shit on the phone, said the tires were good, leather was nice except for that "small" rip in the driver's seat, no body damage.

I will say the car was extremely solid mechanically, rode nice, good brakes, no weird noises, engine pulled hard, no squeaks or rattles. It was freaking quiet as well, and the clutch/shifter were very user friendly and a lot of fun. The 2JZ inline six wasn't terribly quick, but very torquey and moved out nicely.

Anyways, this would've been a good buy at $2500 or $3000. If the interior was minty and everything worked, I could've overlooked the scratches and bad tires and bought it.

I figured this one was of those spitshine outfits. I can read those shitty dealers like a book. Then again, if it was really as immaculate as it looked in the photos, it would be pushing 8k with the enthusiast market for those and the rarity of mint ones.

temptingf8
03-22-11, 01:41 AM
I will say the car was extremely solid mechanically, rode nice, good brakes, no weird noises, engine pulled hard, no squeaks or rattles. It was freaking quiet as well, and the clutch/shifter were very user friendly and a lot of fun. The 2JZ inline six wasn't terribly quick, but very torquey and moved out nicely.

Sounds typical for the 2JZ-GE. Damn indestructible, those things.

ben.gators
03-23-11, 08:01 AM
Aron9000

You need one of these, or may be the both!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0rSz8r-m58

http://lexusenthusiast.com/images/weblog/11-02-15-lexus-lfa-supermodel-rianne-ten-haken.jpg

DouglasJRizzo
03-23-11, 09:46 AM
For some reason Lexus and Infiniti vehicles that are more than a couple of years old seem to be very ratty. I've seen Lexus Sc's so equipped and they look like they've lived a thrashed life. Interiors are shredded, paint and soft trim badly deteriorated. Blue haze from the tail pipes. I don't know why this is. To be fair, most used BMW's I've seen that are more than about 4-5 years old tend to look like this too.

There was an LS400 in my old neighborhood, that started life as a dark green, low miles, off-lease sedan. Next thing I know, it's got neon yellow paint, 22" rims, slammed suspension, non-stock exhaust and looks like it's been driven off a pier a few times.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-23-11, 01:04 PM
That's weird, maybe it's a regional thing. Most of the older Lexuses I see around here are in very good shape still. The gangbangers around here will go to the Cadillacs, Lincolns and Mercedes before they go to Lexus, Infiniti or BMW.

orconn
03-23-11, 01:21 PM
That's weird, maybe it's a regional thing. Most of the older Lexuses I see around here are in very good shape still. The gangbangers around here will go to the Cadillacs, Lincolns and Mercedes before they go to Lexus, Infiniti or BMW.

I guess the gang bangers in the upper Midwest just are way behind times! I remember seeing gang bangers in L.A. with Lexus medallions around their necks fifteen years ago! Hell even the successful pimps and peddlers in Anchorage have got Lexi! Here in Virginia, known as the "Old" Dominion, and renown for its' love of bygone days, the pimps and peddlers do seem to prefer Cadillacs ........ which keeps our resale prices averaging a little higher than the national average.

cadillac kevin
03-23-11, 02:57 PM
around here its mostly bubble and euro style box caprices from the 90s and crown vics and a never ending stream of fwd N* caddies in the hood.
Most of the old 80's and before luxury cars are in the junkyards because the people in the ghetto buy them and toss them in 6 months when they cant afford to fix them.
I have noticed a growing number of tricked out toyotas/ lexus in the hood as of late. why I don't know. cheaper maybe? sure dont see rappers putting camrys in their videos.

Playdrv4me
03-23-11, 07:37 PM
It's rare that I see a pimpified LS400 (certainly never seen a 430) but I do see them on occasion. Saw one a couple weeks ago that had flower art all over it, and I'm 99 percent sure I've seen that car somewhere before.

Stingroo
03-23-11, 09:36 PM
I've never seen a Lexus in the hood. Ever. lol

Aron9000
03-30-11, 10:14 PM
Looked at another junky Lexus. It was a red SC400, v8/auto. 145k miles, wanted $4200 for it. Thing was trashed on the outside, front bumper was crooked along with the left front fender, scratches all down the sides, on the rear, clear coat flaking off the mirror. Didn't even bother to test drive it, didn't want to waste the guy's time.

This looks rather tempting:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=289580283&dealer_id=65834823&car_year=2002&systime=&doors=&model=IS300&search_lang=en&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=500&min_price=&rdm=1301533958266&drive=&marketZipError=false&advanced=y&fuel=&keywords_display=&sownerid=639573&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2012&showZipError=y&make2=&certified=&engine=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=Manual&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&max_mileage=&color=&address=37214&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=&awsp=false&make=LEXUS&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=356&standard=false

As does this low mile 2005, but at 14k that would mean a loan, something I really don't want.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=296582701&dealer_id=66145479&car_year=2005&systime=&doors=&model=IS300&search_lang=en&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=500&min_price=&rdm=1301533958266&drive=&marketZipError=false&advanced=y&fuel=&keywords_display=&sownerid=639573&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2012&showZipError=y&make2=&certified=&engine=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=Manual&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&max_mileage=&color=&address=37214&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=&awsp=false&make=LEXUS&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=461&standard=false

ga_etc
03-30-11, 10:26 PM
I still love the look of the IS300s. I went to an auction with a friend one night and looked at a pearl white one with black leather. :drool:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-30-11, 10:30 PM
They're a quietly handsome car, but I never saw the appeal. I prefer the new IS 250/350/F in terms of styling.

Aron9000
03-30-11, 10:47 PM
They're a quietly handsome car, but I never saw the appeal. I prefer the new IS 250/350/F in terms of styling.

:ack:


Maybe that was a bit harsh, but I think they(new IS350) look like most other Toyotas. Dull, generic, and bloated. Although its by far the best looking car from that Toyota school of styling, as it actually does try to be stylish, and is sadly the best design Toyota has out right now.

Anyways, the appeal of the old IS300 is that it gives you all the straight six and handling goodness of an e46 BMW in a much more reliable/cheaper to maintain package.

Playdrv4me
03-31-11, 02:35 AM
Well, I wouldn't say MUCH more reliable, but they're a decent ride.

Aron9000
03-31-11, 03:15 AM
Well, I wouldn't say MUCH more reliable, but they're a decent ride.

I was kind of curious if there was a "lexus" premium on parts/labor for these cars. Called a Toyota dealer for a timing belt/water pump change on an SC300, $650. Lexus dealer wanted $1000 for the same job. Yeah there are some wonky/expensive to fix things on a Lexus like the gagues, climate control panels, and radios, but under the skin they are still a pretty conventional Toyota with normal coil spring/shock type of suspension setups.

I'm still betting if you bought a new 2000 BMW 328i and a new Lexus IS300 and drove them both to 200k miles, the BMW would be in the shop more often and be several thousand more dollars to keep on the road. Not by the virtue of being a shitty car, just by parts/specialty labor being more expensive.

Playdrv4me
03-31-11, 03:49 AM
I was kind of curious if there was a "lexus" premium on parts/labor for these cars. Called a Toyota dealer for a timing belt/water pump change on an SC300, $650. Lexus dealer wanted $1000 for the same job. Yeah there are some wonky/expensive to fix things on a Lexus like the gagues, climate control panels, and radios, but under the skin they are still a pretty conventional Toyota with normal coil spring/shock type of suspension setups.

I'm still betting if you bought a new 2000 BMW 328i and a new Lexus IS300 and drove them both to 200k miles, the BMW would be in the shop more often and be several thousand more dollars to keep on the road. Not by the virtue of being a shitty car, just by parts/specialty labor being more expensive.

Yes, when I took an LS430 for a general inspection at a Toyota dealer, they offered to do the T-Belt/W-pump service for 579.00 with some sort of 10 percent off coupon. I was shocked that it was THAT easy to get half off the Lexus price. And the "timing belt replacement maintenance" sticker that the Lexus dealer puts on? It's the same damn shit the Toyota dealer puts on there when they're done. I wouldn't be surprised if the maintenance history even shows up the same on the Lexus Driver's site (you can go on there and see every single thing ever done at the dealership to ANY Lexus product dating back to 2001 just by registering the VIN of any Lexus).

As for the BMW 3 Series, the E46s are surprisingly robust and minimally needy cars, which is why I said the IS300 would be slightly better than THAT particular BMW, but not by a whole lot. The E46 was just really above average car in every sense of the word. If you know where and how to get them serviced, you won't pay much more than the services on that IS.

You won't find many bigger fans of "classic" Lexus than me, but I have similar love for the older BMWs... and in a few cases, like the E46 and IS300, they are more similar than they are different.

Aron9000
04-27-11, 04:38 AM
UPDATE:

Well my local Toyota dealer had a 1996 LS400 on their lot, one owner trade in, very clean with 116k miles. Test drove it and fell in love. Never before have I been in such a quiet and tranquil car. The ride was beyond epic, it wasn't traditional big American car float. It was just even keeled and flat, you just didn't feel or hear any pockmarks in the road.

Loved the way it drove too. Granted the handling wasn't sporty, but it was beyond competent for a big cruiser. Was light and easy, not overboosted though. Tracked straight as an arrow as well, yet didn't have a giant dead spot on center like my Caddy.

Power from the 1UZFE was plentiful. Granted it won't win any drag races against a V8 Camaro, but its more than enough to put the smack down on any 90's Mustang GT or stupid Hondas. On the highway it straight up sings and really hits its stride.

The interior was equally faboluous. Granted you don't have the giant nav screen like newer luxury cars, but I really prefer the simple layouts, easy to use buttons, and minalimist look of this car. Materials were top notch, but the khaki colored leather did feel a bit "dry". The fit and finish aspect of this car is better IMO than a new LS460. Not one thing on the interior was broken, and it had ZERO squeals or rattles.

Exterior styling is kind of "quietly hansome". Its not real flashy, but its right up my alley in terms of a rather traditional, boxy, formal sedan. I'm ready for something more stealth anyways. I wasn't really crazy about the metallic gray-green color of this particular car though and that's probably the only reason I didn't buy it. These cars look stunning in all black IMO.

So yeah, I like this big sedan better than the SC300/400. Its quieter, rides better, interior is nicer, the 1uzfe V8 has a lot more balls than the 2JZ inline six. I still haven't been able to find a SC that isn't beat to pieces, but it seems like more old farts own the LS400, and they always take better care of their cars.

ben.gators
04-27-11, 05:05 AM
^
So what happened at the end? You walked away or you are thinking about this car?

Aron9000
04-27-11, 05:30 AM
^
So what happened at the end? You walked away or you are thinking about this car?

Thinking about it. Didn't talk numbers, they want $8900 for it, which I think is about $1500-2k too much. Probably going to pass though, can't decide if I REALLY like that color, its kind of grey, then mint green depending on how you look at it.

Going to look at a black 1995 LS400 tomorrow or Thursday if the weather is crappy. Has 97k miles on it.

ben.gators
04-27-11, 06:06 AM
Wow, that is too much! In general Lexus keeps its value, or better to say a used Lexus is always overpriced, and about this specific case it is even priced higher than normal.

By the way, I was searching Craigslist and saw two very nice SC in my area... Too bad you are far from here. Arizona cars are perfect....

Stingroo
04-27-11, 08:59 AM
$9000 for a car with no collector value and 116k miles?

Dealers be crazy.

Aron9000
04-27-11, 03:30 PM
$9000 for a car with no collector value and 116k miles?

Dealers be crazy.

Yeah that's what I thought. The black one I'm looking at on Thursday is priced at $7400. Resale is a lot better on these than a Cadillac.

Lord Cadillac
04-27-11, 05:38 PM
They're seriously nice luxury cars, aren't they? They hold up really well and they're extremely comfortable...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-14-11, 09:01 PM
Hate to bring up an old thread, but I thought this was relevant.

The dealer I work at took in an '02 GS300 on trade and put it on the used car lot last week. It was my first experience with a 2JZ. Loved how smooth and effortless it was...it felt lighter and was more ready to rev than the BMW I-6's I've driven. Put out good power for a little I-6 in a fairly big luxury sports sedan as well.

Night Wolf
06-14-11, 11:50 PM
RWD
I6
Manual trans

I see nothing wrong here :cool2:

X2!

I did not know the early SC300 had a 2JZ, was RWD or offered with a manual transmission... silly me for thinking it was a 2-door version of the Camry (that was the later ones, right? *edit - I was thinking of the Solara)

Wow... I am actually thinking about a Toyota product?

*edit2 - I keep looking at pictures SC300s and they are just not doing a darn thing for me. The whole appeal was the drivetrain. Maybe I'd have to drive one to experience it? But as it is now, just from the pictures they've got the visual appeal of just about any other similar year Toyota product.

Night Wolf
06-15-11, 12:19 AM
To Toyota fanbois? Yes... In general? Uhh, no. The BMW inline six has a velvet smoothness and incredibly linear power delivery that is almost, ALMOST incomparable. And besides, even if the engine itself were better, the vehicle it's mated to handles and behaves entirely differently than a well tuned BMW chassis. Well, the old BMWs anyway. The new ones are rolling marshmallow turds.


lol, the funny part is - what you most likely consider the "old" BMWs, I consider "new" BMWs :cool2:

I don't have first hand experience with the 2JZ but have heard plenty about it, plus I'm already a fan of I6s in general. They sound good, but have a bit too much of the "JDM" tone... I much prefer the sound of a BMW I6, which even from the belt-driven SOHC M20 to the twin-turbo N54 - just a very sweet sound.

As for the rest of the car, I agree - the thing actually appealing to that car is the drivetrain. I'm not even fond of the styling, it was definitly a product of the melted soap bar years, the comparison of a 90s 635csi quickly brought a "hell no" but then on further thought - when factoring in Toyotas "make everyone happy" styling - maybe it is a fitting statement, when figuring in that it is a Lexus product.

I think I've been tainted though... I grew up with the movie and every time I hear "2JZ" I just can't help but think of this clip:

xKXZT70gwNg

For such "tuners" - what were they expecting under the hood of that car?

http://www.news-cars-insight.info/images/2jz%20(3).jpg

Aron9000
07-06-12, 04:55 AM
Back from the grave . . .


I've finally decided that I am completely bored with big luxury barges. Its going on 4, maybe 4 and a half years behind the wheel of a big RWD Caddy. I've never owned a car that really handles worth a damn. I love the feeling and sense of "owning the road" in a big ass car, plus the smooth ride and infinite space inside is real nice. But I'll admit these big body on frame RWD cars are pretty damn pathetic when you have to turn the wheel.

I've owned a 99 Camaro Z28 auto, and a 98 Z28 six speed convertible. Granted those 4th gen, LS1 powered Camaros had pretty high limits, but they scared me shitless if you pushed it beyond about 5/10th's of the limit on a curvy public road. Numb steering, a wide/huge/clumsy body and seating position, massive understeer, and snap power oversteer out of the corner made it a car you really didn't want to **** around with. Unless you were flogging it in a straight line, doing a burnout, or screwing around in an empty parking lot, it was a rather clusmy beast, just like the muscle cars of yore.


I've thought long and hard about a Miata, but it just doesn't work for my lifestyle right now. I drive 15 miles one way to work, all interstate. Granted I can get to work in about 20 minutes, but IMO the Miata is just a terrible cruiser on the interstate. Its noisy, 70+mph means that little engine is spinning at 3300+rpms, plus I hate when I drive by a semi truck I have to look up to see the lugnuts on the wheels. The Miata is a toy IMO, something I will one day own, but I don't have the garage/income to justify this type of toy right now.




I guess my main point is I want a smaller car that does it all. Handles like a sports car, rides decent, has a nice, well appointed interior, has a back seat that will seat humans, and a decent size trunk. I'd also like a car that is as reliable and cheap to own as my previous two Cadillacs.

Really I keep coming back to two cars. The 02-05 Lexus IS300. Or a BMW E46 3 series(99-05). Really the BMW is my wild card, as in it scares me with expensive maintenance and parts. I've done some research with the IS300, and have found it to be reliable as your girlfriend's 2002 Corolla or Camry. And its equally easy and inexpensive to repair.

BTW, I'm looking for cars with manual transmissions. If I'm buying a sports sedan, it damn better well be sporty. Really I have two things against the BMW. Its rather damn plain in base 323i with no options trim. I hate the flat "leatherette"(aka nice vinyl) seats in the base model, along with the lack of wood trim or cool looking wheel options. The second thing is what it costs to fix a BMW. I can change my own oil, but that's about it. The plastic cooling system parts scare me, they say you are on borrowed time with the plastic parts in the radiator and water pump once you reach 100k+. I've heard the E46 is pretty durable except for the cooling system, but it just scares me to think of what it costs to fix stuff on this car.

By comparison the IS300 is damn near bullet proof. Change the timing belt at 100k, along with regular oil and coolant changes and you are good to go. The 2JZ inline six, well I've never heard an unkind word spoken about it, other than its rather meager 215hp output. Which is more than adequate in this type of car, as I want something that handles, not scares the crap out of me.


So my budget its 12k max, including taxes, fees, etc

What do you all think???

Personally I am leaning towards the IS300, unless somebody can convince me the BMW can be just as reliable and cheap to service.

EDIT: I know somebody will mention a 1st gen CTS. I think its a really aggresive looking car, but the interior makes me vomit. I just absolutely HATE the design, the choice of materials, the orange dash lighting. BTW that orange dash lighting has made me completely discount an older Infiniti G35(plus this being Nissan headquarters around where I live, its a VERY common car).

Jesda
07-06-12, 05:34 AM
Only issue I've heard of is the head gasket, and its not that big of a deal.

Aron9000
07-06-12, 06:15 AM
Only issue I've heard of is the head gasket, and its not that big of a deal.

What???? On the 2JZ???? I know its a problem on the older 7M-GE and 7M-GTE inline six motors used in the late 80's Cressada and Toyota Supra.

Jesda
07-06-12, 06:54 AM
What???? On the 2JZ???? I know its a problem on the older 7M-GE and 7M-GTE inline six motors used in the late 80's Cressada and Toyota Supra.

Yes, but its not something that would stop me from buying the car. As long as you catch it before the overheating gets out of control, you're not too likely to warp the block. You pull the head, have it machined, and do it like you would any typical RWD car.

truckinman
07-06-12, 08:29 AM
I didn't feel like reading thru all 5 pages so if this has been mentioned, who gives a damn. One of the most common problems with any 90s Lexus is the radio and climate control digital displays have a tendency to fade out over time until you can't see anything anymore. But some sooner or later than others. Ive had 2 98 Lexus. A GS400 that I bought back in 04 when I was 19, and recently a ES300 that had been my parents since it was nearly new but had given to me bc they bought a new one. But it had 240k on the es once I parted with it and the radio display wAs just starting to fade out. Never did with my GS tho bc it only had 65-75k miles during my ownership of that car. But during that whole 240k mile time we had it, it only went thru one muffler, and at 210, it needed its first set of struts which I put on myself. And at 220 it needed its first AC recharge. Other than that it was never once in the shop for anything other than oil changes. And in high school, I wasnt exactly nice to it. Lol. I hit a curb straight on at 35 mpg bc I was acting like a dumb kid. Lol. Never fazed it.

BIGREECE
07-06-12, 09:03 AM
What???? On the 2JZ???? I know its a problem on the older 7M-GE and 7M-GTE inline six motors used in the late 80's Cressada and Toyota Supra.
The 7M-GTE had a problem with the head gasket, It came from the factory not tourqing the head bolts to the correct lbs. My 89 7M-GE Supra just had a complete re-buld from the bottom up, nothing was wrong when I had it re-built it still ran real strong. It has 193,000 miles and I had some money saved to
go ahead and re-build, now only 311 miles on motor and the only diff I can tell is the RPM revs down much faster than b4. The 1J and 2Js are a whole different
beast all together, If turboed you can tune them to rediculously RWHP if you have an endless bank account. Check out supramania.com, very interesting!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-06-12, 12:12 PM
What about a Maxima, or are you sticking with RWD?

gary88
07-06-12, 01:01 PM
It depends on what you value more from a car.

Reliability: Lexus
Driving dynamics/fun: BMW

The E46 has its various problems (window regulators, sunroof), but the drivetrain is bulletproof. Keep up with maintenance and it'll run forever.

AElayyat
07-06-12, 02:19 PM
I drove several IS 300's both auto & 5 spd manual they are sweet cars! The manual trans is a little harder to find but if that is what u landed on go for a manual trans IS300. Good luck with your car hunting.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-06-12, 02:34 PM
Could you get into an IS350? We've taken those in at work and they're a sweet ride, even the underpowered IS250 is still a hoot!

ryannel2003
07-06-12, 10:06 PM
I ****ing love my E46. I miss my Cadillac too, but the E46 is excellent in every sense of the word from the handling to the driving position and even the smoothness of the Inline 6. I really haven't done any major maintenance to mine yet but as far as they go they are pretty DIY friendly and the parts are about on par as a Seville would cost. Compared to the Fleetwood they would be expensive, but the Seville's and E46's are really neck and neck for parts prices. The plus side to the BMW is there is a huge aftermarket so if you can't afford to go OEM, you can go down a few notches and get decent parts for a lot less than you would expect.

I will give you some advice... I have the 323i which is fine, but it's slightly underpowered. With your budget, go for the 330i as they have alot more features and power. Make sure to get a PPI done because you don't want to do what I did... buy a E46 that is more of a fixer upper. Service records are a must, but otherwise the cars are solid. Mine has 142k miles and the motor sure as hell doesn't feel like it. Smoother than my STS throughout the entire powerband. Biggest things to look out for are window regulators, subframes (mainly on the '99 and '00 models), oil leaks, transmission smoothness, suspension noises, etc. Otherwise, they're excellent cars.

Aron9000
07-10-12, 03:18 AM
Could you get into an IS350? We've taken those in at work and they're a sweet ride, even the underpowered IS250 is still a hoot!

Personally I hate the styling of the IS350. Looks too bloated and bland, the IS300 visually looks a lot smaller and sportier. Plus you can't get a manual trans with the big engine option on that car, which is retarded IMO. An IS350 would mean a car payment as well.

Truth be told, I have an ethical problem with car payments on a used car, especially one out of warranty. Usually your interest rate is stupidly high vs a new car. My main beef is that you are paying a hefty interest rate on a depreciating asset that somebody else has farted in, scraped, and thrashed before you owned it.

That being said, if you really do find a new car that peaks your interest and can afford the payments, interest rates are retardly low(or even non-existant) for new cars right now. All that is in my budget for a new car would be some shitty 20k econobox, so I choose to drive older, more interesting, and paid for cars.

Aron9000
07-10-12, 03:25 AM
Could you get into an IS350? We've taken those in at work and they're a sweet ride, even the underpowered IS250 is still a hoot!

Personally I hate the styling of the IS350. Looks too bloated and bland, the IS300 visually looks a lot smaller and sportier. Plus you can't get a manual trans with the big engine option on that car, which is retarded IMO. An IS350 would mean a car payment as well.

Truth be told, I have an ethical problem with car payments on a used car, especially one out of warranty. Usually your interest rate is stupidly high vs a new car. My main beef is that you are paying a hefty interest rate on a depreciating asset that somebody else has farted in, scraped, and thrashed before you owned it.

That being said, if you really do find a new car that peaks your interest and can afford the payments, interest rates are retardly low(or even non-existant) for new cars right now. All that is in my budget for a new car would be some shitty 20k econobox, so I choose to drive older, more interesting, and paid for cars.


Anyways, enough with the car payment rant . . . .

Here is exactly what I want in terms of color combo. Really as long as it isn't bright red or bright yellow I'll be happy. Also I hate the models with the tan leather/suede seats. After about 50k miles the tan suede in the seats gets real grungy looking, no matter how careful you are. Price is stupidly high for the miles, but if its extra clean with service records it might be a good buy in the 9-10k range. Resale on these cars is insane IMO.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=37214&endYear=2013&modelCode1=IS300&sortBy=distanceASC&showcaseOwnerId=94432&startYear=1981&makeCode1=LEXUS&listingType=used&transmissionCode=MAN&searchRadius=500&listingId=322070252&Log=0

97EldETC
07-10-12, 02:01 PM
My ma LOVES her IS350, 07, 26,xxx miles. I think I love it more though :). It handles great and feels excellent for a V6.

ryannel2003
07-10-12, 03:31 PM
Personally I hate the styling of the IS350. Looks too bloated and bland, the IS300 visually looks a lot smaller and sportier. Plus you can't get a manual trans with the big engine option on that car, which is retarded IMO. An IS350 would mean a car payment as well.

Truth be told, I have an ethical problem with car payments on a used car, especially one out of warranty. Usually your interest rate is stupidly high vs a new car. My main beef is that you are paying a hefty interest rate on a depreciating asset that somebody else has farted in, scraped, and thrashed before you owned it.

That being said, if you really do find a new car that peaks your interest and can afford the payments, interest rates are retardly low(or even non-existant) for new cars right now. All that is in my budget for a new car would be some shitty 20k econobox, so I choose to drive older, more interesting, and paid for cars.


Anyways, enough with the car payment rant . . . .

Here is exactly what I want in terms of color combo. Really as long as it isn't bright red or bright yellow I'll be happy. Also I hate the models with the tan leather/suede seats. After about 50k miles the tan suede in the seats gets real grungy looking, no matter how careful you are. Price is stupidly high for the miles, but if its extra clean with service records it might be a good buy in the 9-10k range. Resale on these cars is insane IMO.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=37214&endYear=2013&modelCode1=IS300&sortBy=distanceASC&showcaseOwnerId=94432&startYear=1981&makeCode1=LEXUS&listingType=used&transmissionCode=MAN&searchRadius=500&listingId=322070252&Log=0

Any kind of import like that is going to command a premium over an american car. That price is high especially considering for the same you can find a clean 330i all day long that will outrun that particular car, but if you don't want something that requires more maintenance than the Lexus is the way to go.

96Fleetwood
07-11-12, 01:58 PM
I have owned my 2008 GS350 AWD for 6 weeks now... put 1,500 miles on it so far.

I wanted a CTS-V wagon.. but with the recent house purchase, I had to put that on hold for a year or two. The Denali's transmission needed a rebuild STAT so I decided to get a reliable DD with decent gas mileage and tons of luxury/technology. I wanted something under warranty, so I looked at CPO used cars only. To make a long story short.. the Lexus gave me the best bang for the buck (plus the best CPO warranty on the market).

This car is BORING. No excitement whatsoever.... but it is so smooth and calming, I just can't describe it. After a long day at work, I get in and it wraps me in comfort and immediately I feel better. The stereo is amazing, the luxury is there, the technology is up to date... I really have no complaints except the need for more horesepower. I plan to drive this for another year or so and then sell it buy the CTS-V wagon. I hope the fit/finish of the V is better than the 2009 STS-4 I test drove :bigroll:

I am getting 21 mpg in the city and we plan on driving it to Virginia to see my Parents in October (looking for 27-28 mpg hwy). I will see how the AWD performs in the snow this coming Chicago winter!

Aron9000
07-25-12, 11:24 PM
UPDATE:

I was in Cinncinnati yesterday and today for a metal festival(Anthrax, Slipknot, Motorhead, Slayer, if you care), while I was up there I looked at an IS300. It was grey, manual trans, original owner, 130k miles, and decently clean(interior was immaculate). I asked the guy if he had driven it in the winter over the phone, got the usual well only a couple of winters. Thing wasn't too bad for a northern car, had the usual crusty bolts in the engine bay, couple surface rust spots on the floor pans, exhaust looked like it was about ready to fall off. Really if it had been a southern car I would've bought it, the guy was a little bit older and took great care of it.

Looked at a real POS one here in Nashville. Same color, manual trans, 110k miles. I knew it was going to be a crap car when I heard it had an aftermarket stereo and it was owned by somebody named "Dillon". Other than it being rust free, I could tell the rear bumper didn't line up, the front bumper was missing the headlight washers, and "his dad changed the timing belt, we're a bunch of mechanics" B.S. The real kicker that he didn't tell me over the phone is that the check engine light is on. Gave me some line of bs it needing an o2 sensor, told him he's going to have a hell of a time selling it in Nashville since it won't pass emissions. Said he never had a problem with it since it was registered at his dad's house in KY. I'd have been PISSED if he didn't work 4 miles from my house and wasted a bunch of my time.


Was just perusing ebay and found this gem. I know I said I wanted an IS300, but damn this SC300 looks immaculate. I kind of gave up on looking at the SC because when you find a clean one its always an automatic and they want like 15k for a 15-20 year old car. Only thing that scares me is its from New Jersey. Looks like it never saw a winter though judging by the pics of the engine bay. Usually all those bolts on the cowl will get crusty looking from salt spraying into the engine bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271024218385&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

talismandave
07-26-12, 12:16 AM
That color interior is hard to hide abuse in. Looks like a great car if true to pics.

truckinman
07-26-12, 12:33 AM
That's a fantastic looking SC! Looks brand new. That's one of my favorite colors on that car too. The white pearl with the gold trim. I've always liked the SC. But I'd rather go the 400 route like my GS was. But don't know if a manual was available in the 400 or not.

Aron9000
07-26-12, 12:41 AM
That's a fantastic looking SC! Looks brand new. That's one of my favorite colors on that car too. The white pearl with the gold trim. I've always liked the SC. But I'd rather go the 400 route like my GS was. But don't know if a manual was available in the 400 or not.

No manual in the 400. If it were an auto, I'd go with the v8 all day long too.

Yeah, as for the gold badges, I can't stand that crap. It was a huge fad in the 90's and really dates the car. Changing them to chrome is so easy though.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-26-12, 12:46 AM
Damn that SC300 is nice! Looks like it's brand new, it's a time machine!! The quality of that car is outstanding and is clearly unmatched by Lexus's current offerings. Leave those gold badges on it, that car is so '90s and you can't hide it with chrome badges.

cadillac kevin
07-26-12, 09:25 AM
Damn that SC300 is nice! Looks like it's brand new, it's a time machine!! The quality of that car is outstanding and is clearly unmatched by Lexus's current offerings. Leave those gold badges on it, that car is so '90s and you can't hide it with chrome badges.

^that

Leave the gold badges