: something funny in the mail



guitarocker420
03-15-11, 12:47 PM
well i got a letter from the stealership about buying my car from me. they are trying to restock thier inventory and wanna offer me $11605 for my 05 sts, 2500 above the regional market value. they said that it could even be worth more if its in "excellent" condition. i thought that this was hilarous and couldnt help but laugh :histeric: my car only has 80k miles on it, some interior work, new tires, $400 in HIDs, and all three gm accessory tail lights. well ima let the pics do the talking when i say that it is worth more than $11.6k.

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac298/guitarocker420/seanscar002.jpg

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac298/guitarocker420/seanscar007.jpg

jordan00escalade
03-15-11, 12:59 PM
I'd buy that

Greg00coupe
03-15-11, 01:15 PM
Well having dropped a lot of money on mods myself........ sad to say they are not worth anything on a trade. They are custom and the dealer needs to find a buyer who likes things you do which is hard to do. First thing to do when you go to trade is take the car back to stock and sell off the mods.

Second...... the offer they made you is based on what the cars are bringing at auction. This is simple business sense. No matter how we love our cars at the end of the day the value is set by the market.

But you car is very sharp I like it!

guitarocker420
03-15-11, 02:01 PM
not looking to get rid of the car just thought what they offered was funny, but I guess your right. I bought the car in dec 08 from a dealer auction with 45k miles for only 13k, great deal. So I guess I'm just goin to drive the car until it blows up or until someone offers me something decent. But I LOVE my sts

550HP STSV
03-15-11, 03:01 PM
Dude you should have taken the $11,600 and ran as fast as you could.

malatu
03-15-11, 03:08 PM
I suspect the amount they offered you was "on a trade in".

It was just a marketing ploy to get you to consider trading your car in for a newer model.

turnne
03-15-11, 04:54 PM
I suspect the amount they offered you was "on a trade in".

It was just a marketing ploy to get you to consider trading your car in for a newer model.

Exactly...and it seems that a lot of the public does not know what a large discount from sticker a Cadillac typically sells for

so instead of that $13-15K off the sticker on a new STS or DTS they only give you $9K off the sticker and then give you the amount they said in the post card for your trade in

If you are not savy enough you think you got a great deal...and you just have put a huge smile on their faces as well


Warren

malatu
03-15-11, 05:01 PM
Exactly...and it seems that a lot of the public does not know what a large discount from sticker a Cadillac typically sells for

so instead of that $13-15K off the sticker on a new STS or DTS they only give you $9K off the sticker and then give you the amount they said in the post card for your trade in

If you are not savy enough you think you got a great deal...and you just have put a huge smile on their faces as well


Warren


Yep.... that's why I prefer not to "trade in" for a new vehicle. I don't mind the hassle selling outright.

erichthecatt
03-15-11, 05:50 PM
I was on autotrader last friday, looking to see what my 05 bonneville gxp (has the northstar engine) was going for. Submitted a link to value my car, and got a value of 9500.00 that was more than what i was offered recently thru a dealer as a trade in. Within 30 minutes i had a call from the local cadillac/chevy dealer wanting to talk, and was offered that amount in cash. trade in or not. Ive never heard of the dealer purchasing cars outright. the offer is only good for 3 days. Think im going to adv. on the autotrader, but not for that amount.


I suspect the amount they offered you was "on a trade in".

It was just a marketing ploy to get you to consider trading your car in for a newer model.

Greg00coupe
03-15-11, 08:21 PM
Man you got a good deal buying this. My son in law who is in the business tells me used cars are scarce right now. Not sure why but they are. Thus dealers wanting to buy inventory.

guitarocker420
03-15-11, 08:33 PM
Dude you should have taken the $11,600 and ran as fast as you could.

I'm not lookin to sell the car nor have I gone to the dealer and inquired about a trade in. They just randomly sent me that.

jimmbo
03-15-11, 10:04 PM
If a dealer were to phone or mail me I'd dump the STS so fast if you blink you will have missed it.

ddalder
03-15-11, 10:48 PM
I was on autotrader last friday, looking to see what my 05 bonneville gxp (has the northstar engine) was going for. Submitted a link to value my car, and got a value of 9500.00 that was more than what i was offered recently thru a dealer as a trade in. Within 30 minutes i had a call from the local cadillac/chevy dealer wanting to talk, and was offered that amount in cash. trade in or not. Ive never heard of the dealer purchasing cars outright. the offer is only good for 3 days. Think im going to adv. on the autotrader, but not for that amount.
I recently asked a dealership what I'd get for my '04 Bonneville GXP (110,000km) w/existing GMPP warranty on a trade. $8K, but with the long list of custom mods using all GM parts (Escalade touchscreen nav w/Bose lux sound, rear heated seats, heated washer fluid, signal mirrors, back-up camera, factory XM and more) $8.5K. He freely told me that since the car is mint I could get $14-15K sold privately. I understand they need to make a profit, but in my case they wouldn't even need to detail it let alone do any mechanical work. Couldn't even consider an offer like that, especially since they'd be making money the the car I was buying as well. Dealerships are never a good place to get a deal. If you think you're getting one, look again because they've just found a different way to get too much of your money.

EChas3
03-16-11, 12:09 AM
I would agree with you on selling a car. Buying is different. Where else are you going to get a Cadillac CPO?

ddalder
03-16-11, 01:01 AM
Without a doubt there is benefit in buying a car from a dealership. My point is it comes with a cost... usually a big one. To have warranty with the STS is very good, but for many cars it isn't nearly as important. As for trades, unless you don't have the time/ability to sell privately, trading in a "good" used car on a purchase just isn't worth it. Good, well cared for used cars will sell with a little patience and usually net the owner much more money.

ddgm
03-16-11, 09:45 AM
One thing to consider in trade ins, in Ontario, the trade in price is deducted from the selling price, thus saving 13 % of the difference when it comes to the tax man. $10000 = $1300
A few years ago it was 15%. Each Province and each State have different tax rates so something to think about.

Doug

turnne
03-16-11, 12:40 PM
I recently asked a dealership what I'd get for my '04 Bonneville GXP (110,000km) w/existing GMPP warranty on a trade. $8K, but with the long list of custom mods using all GM parts (Escalade touchscreen nav w/Bose lux sound, rear heated seats, heated washer fluid, signal mirrors, back-up camera, factory XM and more) $8.5K. He freely told me that since the car is mint I could get $14-15K sold privately. I understand they need to make a profit, but in my case they wouldn't even need to detail it let alone do any mechanical work. Couldn't even consider an offer like that, especially since they'd be making money the the car I was buying as well. Dealerships are never a good place to get a deal. If you think you're getting one, look again because they've just found a different way to get too much of your money.

You won't get much, if anything, for "mods" made to a car...you could spend thousands on mods and it not affect the cars value one cent..in fact it could deduct from it unless you found just the right buyer

The dealership has to look at it the same way...a car is more attractive to them that has a wider range of potential buyers

By the way at $14-15K retail for those miles...the Bonneville GXP is worth more than a fully loaded STS...2005 model in the US
My 2005 1SGG AWD STS has 69K miles and every factory option..I could not get $14K for it...selling it myself

A dealership might be able to get that with financing and a warranty offered through them


Warren

turnne
03-16-11, 12:45 PM
I would agree with you on selling a car. Buying is different. Where else are you going to get a Cadillac CPO?

You bring up a good point
When these cars are out of warranty..or not warrantable...the value really seems to drop even faster

But at some point you have to say..is it worth driving if it has been taken care of and you are still scared of things breaking all the time...

The value of that, I think, is reflected in the STS's market value...but still frequent car repairs are a royal PITA


Warren

ddalder
03-16-11, 09:47 PM
You won't get much, if anything, for "mods" made to a car...you could spend thousands on mods and it not affect the cars value one cent..in fact it could deduct from it unless you found just the right buyer

The dealership has to look at it the same way...a car is more attractive to them that has a wider range of potential buyers

By the way at $14-15K retail for those miles...the Bonneville GXP is worth more than a fully loaded STS...2005 model in the US
My 2005 1SGG AWD STS has 69K miles and every factory option..I could not get $14K for it...selling it myself

A dealership might be able to get that with financing and a warranty offered through them


Warren
I really don't disagree with what you're saying. I've spent several thousands of dollars on mods, never with any expectation they would substantially "boost" the value. Mods are my hobby and I did them for enjoyment and personal satisfaction. Having said this...

If a dealership has two basically identical vehicles on the lot but one is in exceptional condition (paint, interior, maintenance records, better optioned, etc), and the other is in "average" condition, I don't accept any dealer telling me the two cars would be priced the same. There may not be a lot of difference, but I'll guarantee there will be some.

As for the value of the car... Keep in mind that I'm in Canada and talking Canadian dollars. Car prices are always substantially less in the US than Canada. I can understand why you may not get $14K for your car in the US, but that simply isn't the case here. Looking quickly at three ads for 2005 STS's here, they are listed for between $18K and $20K. My Bonneville pricing is not that much higher than other GXP's I've seen listed over the past six months and has a lot fewer miles with existing GMPP TotalPlus warranty. In fact, for an '04, it has only averaged 15,800km (about 9,800 miles) annually. There was a GXP that sold recently on eBay in the US for more than $16K (no warranty, cash purchase price, private sale) which did surprise me for the US market. It's only addition was rear park assist sensors (which I'm sure didn't help the value). It didn't even have every factory option available for the model year.

Many mods won't increase the value, poorly done mods will definitely decrease the value. I've very particular and everything must look and as if it was factory installed or I just don't put it in. My car has been to three dealerships for various service and I've had comments like "... I didn't know that was an option in this car.", "If I didn't know it wasn't supposed to be there, I would have thought is was factory installed". So... well done mods can appear to many as just another factory option and won't diminish what they are willing to pay.

turnne
03-16-11, 10:21 PM
Understood

Two cars that are of visibly different condition...even of the same miles will sell for different pricing

I don't think aftermarket mods will add much..if anything on a dealers lot

Factory options yes...aftermarket mods...no

I understand that you enjoy the mods and have no expectation of them bringing you anything in resale...and that is a safe bet

As for the Bonneville GXP bringing $16K on Ebay.....interesting

Unless it had REALLY low miles that sounds very high to me

But if that is the case..the Bonneville GXP is worth more than a 2005 fully loaded V8 STS AWD

I find that interesting..if that is the case..as typically Bonneville's have not been high resale cars..I always put them in the same price structure as the V8 Aurora...and adjusted for the year difference I am not seeing that car being worth more than the same year STS


Warren

ddalder
03-16-11, 10:34 PM
As for the Bonneville GXP bringing $16K on Ebay.....interesting

Unless it had REALLY low miles that sounds very high to me

But if that is the case..the Bonneville GXP is worth more than a 2005 fully loaded V8 STS AWD

I find that interesting..if that is the case..as typically Bonneville's have not been high resale cars..I always put them in the same price structure as the V8 Aurora...and adjusted for the year difference I am not seeing that car being worth more than the same year STS


Warren
It did have very low miles, but if I was a buyer, I'd be concerned about that too. Cars that don't get driven, at least a little, can become problematic as well.

I agree with the comparison of Aurora versus Bonneville. Here, a GXP in good shape often lists for about $13K - $15K whereas an STS of the same year seems to list for about $5K more so what you're saying makes perfect sense. I think it still gets back to Canada versus US. Even though our dollar is about parity, the cost of goods between the two countries is still nowhere close (in most cases).

onlyuscars
03-17-11, 12:56 AM
http://www.q45.org/gallery/gallery3/index.php/IMG_0043
http://www.q45.org/gallery/gallery3/index.php/IMG_0038

Mine has 50000 miles and in my opionion is worth way more than dealer trade in value.....it doesn't even see rain. I might sell it for $20Kw+, I like yours much:cool2: more than 11,500 - that's for sure. The dealer will drop it on the lot for 15,000

turnne
03-17-11, 06:31 PM
It did have very low miles, but if I was a buyer, I'd be concerned about that too. Cars that don't get driven, at least a little, can become problematic as well.

I agree with the comparison of Aurora versus Bonneville. Here, a GXP in good shape often lists for about $13K - $15K whereas an STS of the same year seems to list for about $5K more so what you're saying makes perfect sense. I think it still gets back to Canada versus US. Even though our dollar is about parity, the cost of goods between the two countries is still nowhere close (in most cases).

I understand that the Canadians pay more..even adjusted for the dollar parity

But..as I said..proportionately I thought the values would be the same

I agree on the low mileage old car...I have heard more than one story about some one starting to drive "grandma's" 10 year old car with 15K miles as a daily driver and then all heck breaking loose with it...even with those low miles


Warren

EChas3
03-17-11, 09:59 PM
I'm always surprised by how little factory options really cost in a used STS. To me, the truly 'loaded' cars are a lot more fun and don't cost much more; maybe $1-2,000. I bought my 3-year-old AWD 1SG with ACC and all the rest for nearly the same price as V6 cars w/o the goodies that were in the same row.

In a new STS, a V8 added a lot to the price. It was also the cost of admission to many of the most desirable options. The V6's sold for a lot less; over $10,000 less MSRP. Sure, these cars are heavily discounted, but MSRP is still a fair measure for price comparison.

A fully equipped used STS is a bargin.

turnne
03-18-11, 09:17 AM
I'm always surprised by how little factory options really cost in a used STS. To me, the truly 'loaded' cars are a lot more fun and don't cost much more; maybe $1-2,000. I bought my 3-year-old AWD 1SG with ACC and all the rest for nearly the same price as V6 cars w/o the goodies that were in the same row.

In a new STS, a V8 added a lot to the price. It was also the cost of admission to many of the most desirable options. The V6's sold for a lot less; over $10,000 less MSRP. Sure, these cars are heavily discounted, but MSRP is still a fair measure for price comparison.

A fully equipped used STS is a bargin.

I would have to disagree with that one
I am not sure what the difference is the V6 vs V8 prices...sticker wise...as I have never looked at( or into) a V6 STS

I think the factory options..on a new V8 STS were quite expensive...especially since some like the Nav and voice activation system don't work as they were promised by GM..but anyway..that all seems to be taken into consideration when the car comes from lease and presents itself for the market really thinks its worth

In the used car market the "optioned " V6 if worth more than the base V8 car is..of the same year and mileage even though the V8 could have been more money..sticker wise..than the more optioned V6 of the same year and mileage

Which says..to me anyway..the market values the additional options a lot more than they do the V8

As for being a bargain....nothing changed about that in at least 25 years

But that word is relative..its certainly not a bargain to the person that actually did a new retail purchase. If a buyer bought one of these 1SG's and traded it in after 4-5 years..there are cars they could have spent 10K more on new, and still come out less expensively at trade in time

Used though..yes...the STS is the least expensive used car in the mid luxury category..again that has not changed in at least 25 years

That impacts the upkeep market wise..IMO. You ever noticed how many POS less than 10 year old Caddy's you see on the road?


Warren

nguyendot
03-18-11, 11:51 AM
I would have taken the money and ran. The STS is a high depreciating car, like a PT Cruiser. It's sad but true. I had an 06 STS 1SG fully loaded and I only got 19,500 for it when I purchased my 09 CTS in 11/2009. That's a $60k sticker car. If you think $11,600 is low, wait until they stop making the STS and the XTS or whatever comes out. They won't offer you more than 8k for that car then. I'm glad I got rid of mine before it broke again. The CTS is faster, handles better (I had the MRC on my STS!), and shifts cleaner. Interior space has little difference, I mean the CTS sits on a widened STS chassis, but with way better suspension.

82 pages of issues from service when I got rid of my STS. That speaks ..well a lot.

turnne
03-18-11, 08:21 PM
I am not a huge fan of the CTS...I like the looks but the interior finish looks to be at about $10K less than the sticker...I look at the Hyundai Genesis V8 and its 45K sticker and I can't see the money in the CTS sticker..at all
But its a nice looking car on the outside

Coming from a 1SG STS...I have to ask you a question....
I had a CTS service loaner for almost a week...as soon as I got my STS back one of the first things I noticed was that the STS feels far more substantial...like the materials weigh twice as much. I guess this gives me the "feel" of luxury

Did that cross your mind going from the STS to the CTS?

As for the resale of the STS...yes it hideous
Buy it used or lease it and turn it in and let GM take the hit

But...has that changed at all in the last 25 years?
So why would one think it would ever change?

And yes..it will fall even faster when they are "done" with the body style


But again..has that changed in the last 25 years?

Honestly...I can't even imagine buying one of these brand new...even with the $13-15K off the sticker they are giving
Unless you plan to keep it until eternity..the loss in value makes this a VERY expensive car at trade-in time


Warren

EChas3
03-18-11, 08:57 PM
If I remember right, a base V6 actually sold around $10K less than a base V8. As often noted, STS MSRP is exaggerated. In most cases, the V8 models were more fully optioned even on a base 1SE.

When moving up the trim levels, comparing similarly optioned cars, the differential for a V8 held around $8k. Like you observe, used prices don't value a V8 so highly. But you couldn't even get ACC or HUD on a V6 car until 2008. Used STS prices are more a matter of condition and other options, not engine.

turnne
03-18-11, 09:41 PM
If I remember right, a base V6 actually sold around $10K less than a base V8. As often noted, STS MSRP is exaggerated. In most cases, the V8 models were more fully optioned even on a base 1SE.

When moving up the trim levels, comparing similarly optioned cars, the differential for a V8 held around $8k. Like you observe, used prices don't value a V8 so highly. But you couldn't even get ACC or HUD on a V6 car until 2008. Used STS prices are more a matter of condition and other options, not engine.

You bring up a good point mentioning the ACC and HUD
As I recall it was $2500 extra...on the same two cars of equal mileage and condition it might add $500 today...and I am being generous

You say the gap between V6 and V8 was $8000....assuming the same options

That might net you $1000-1500 on the used car market

So..the loaded V8 LOL...was the car that would give you biggest bath is lost value


Warren

ddalder
03-18-11, 09:49 PM
... I had a CTS service loaner for almost a week...as soon as I got my STS back one of the first things I noticed was that the STS feels far more substantial...like the materials weigh twice as much. I guess this gives me the "feel" of luxury ...

Warren
I am not a fan of the CTS either. Most people I talk to are fixated on the HP of the engine and this is not high on my priority list. I enjoy a "comfortable" degree of power, but I'm not agressive behind the wheel anyway. As you mention, I also prefer the "feel" of luxury.

I recently attended the Car and Truck show and stopped in at the Cadillac display. There was an SRX, Escalade, Converj (concept car) and 3 CTS's. Cadillac has certainly seems to have cut back standards in order to hit a larger market. The first CTS I jumped into was rather disappointing. It had a manual lever for the tilt/telescopic steering... pull the lever down, adjust the steering column, push the lever back into the lock position. This screamed cheap! Of course, Cadillac is trying for a bigger market share and being able to keep the price down will be good strategy in hitting people who otherwise couldn't afford a Caddy. The CTS is pretty popular... exactly why I don't want one. I dislike driving the same car so many others have. I like something a little different and unique. Same story with my Bonneville. There's not that many of those in Canada either.

turnne
03-18-11, 10:19 PM
again..as I have said before the CTS seems overpriced

after looking at the Hyundai Genesis V8 priced at 10K less and with frankly better interior finish than the CTS..I question where GM got the CTS pricing

Not that the STS was competitively priced either...but resale takes care of that quickly



Warren

ddalder
03-18-11, 10:27 PM
Not suggesting that the CTS isn't overpriced, only that they are clearly trying to reduce the cost to open up the potential market. GM has a bit of a history of this behaviour. My 2004 Bonneville GXP window sticker has a price of $50,090.00. I like the car, but it wasn't worth that much. Probably why GM didn't sell a lot of these.

turnne
03-19-11, 04:21 PM
well...as you know the stickers on most GM luxury cars..or near luxury cars are not worth the paper they are printed on

That GXP probably sold for at least 10K off its sticker

My personal STS had a sticker of $67,200...LOL

It was a lease car...but seriously that would have meant an actual retail buyer would have paid $53-56K...still too high for that car..IMO
But...resale has not been kind to either the Bonneville or STS...so what the market thinks the cars are actually worth equalizes whatever GM "printed" in the window rather quickly

Warren

ddalder
03-19-11, 06:33 PM
That GXP probably sold for at least 10K off its sticker

Warren
My car probably isn't a good example, although I understand what you're saying. I bought it for $29,995. It was a "demo" car used by the Business Manager at the dealership and had 28,000km (17,400mi). They provided me with the NVIS and their original invoice so I know (other than the dealership) that I was the first owner.

turnne
03-20-11, 11:18 AM
If I recall correctly the figures...there was a guy in the Aurora forum a few years ago

He bought a brand new Bonneville GXP...I think he said he paid $36K...I am not sure what the sticker was but I seem to recall him saying he got $11-12K off it

Anyway..he kept it for 2 years and traded it in and the dealer gave him $17K for it


Warren

Loren
03-23-11, 11:56 AM
A few days ago I got a letter in the mail too, From Cadillac, dated just February 2010. It is a notice that Cadillac is conducting a 'Customer satisfaction program' affecting 2008 STS models with the V6 engine. Briefly, they want me to take it in to have the calibration of the engine control module changed, including the oil life monitor, 'which will in most cases will recommend more frequent oil changes. Seems they have discovered that the timing chain could prematurely wear and cause the Service Engine Soon light to come on as a result of the age of the engine oil and driving conditions. I have noticed that the oil monitor goes for about a year before it gets below 10% remaining when I usually have it changed. From what I've read these oil life monitors are state of the art and are to be trusted, well, so much for that fallacy. I'll wait awhile to allow someone else to go first, I don't like long waits for a stealership tech to go to school on my time like I had to do when they replaced the camshaft spacers last fall due to escessive end play. It seems the shop manager had recieved the service bulleting some time ago but failed to notice that it required a special tool to do the reapir. I've had so many problems with this dealership I really dread taking either of my GM vehicles in to them but the next closest one is over 50 miles further. So, bottom line, if you have the 08 DI V6 engine, be looking for a letter.

KRSTS
03-23-11, 03:43 PM
I have an 08 V6 DI and I just had mine done. Now my OLM doesn't work at all! I have gone 1200 miles since and it still reads 100%. My dealer is investigating with GM hmmm. I wasn't going to let them do it but they blackmailed me into it. I took my car in for a warranty repair to replace my steering wheel which had stopped heating and I was told in order to do a warranty repair, they also had to do this recall - and yes it is coded as a recall no matter how the letter spins it. I would wait if I were you. Apparantly their new program is dicked up. I will change my oil by mileage from now on.:banghead:

SlickCityStan
03-23-11, 03:54 PM
A few days ago I got a letter in the mail too, From Cadillac, dated just February 2010. It is a notice that Cadillac is conducting a 'Customer satisfaction program' affecting 2008 STS models with the V6 engine. Briefly, they want me to take it in to have the calibration of the engine control module changed, including the oil life monitor, 'which will in most cases will recommend more frequent oil changes. Seems they have discovered that the timing chain could prematurely wear and cause the Service Engine Soon light to come on as a result of the age of the engine oil and driving conditions. I have noticed that the oil monitor goes for about a year before it gets below 10% remaining when I usually have it changed. From what I've read these oil life monitors are state of the art and are to be trusted, well, so much for that fallacy. I'll wait awhile to allow someone else to go first, I don't like long waits for a stealership tech to go to school on my time like I had to do when they replaced the camshaft spacers last fall due to escessive end play. It seems the shop manager had recieved the service bulleting some time ago but failed to notice that it required a special tool to do the reapir. I've had so many problems with this dealership I really dread taking either of my GM vehicles in to them but the next closest one is over 50 miles further. So, bottom line, if you have the 08 DI V6 engine, be looking for a letter.Or you can leave it like it is and change your oil every 3,000 or 7,500 miles. I think the reason for the OLM was more environmental because it results in fewer oil changes for the typical or average driver thus saving consumption of a diminishing natural resource and less disposal of waste product. GM going Green!:D