: Decisions Decisions...



Pages : [1] 2

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 01:41 AM
So I may be looking for a new (used) vehicle. I love my Oldsmobile, but the trans blew up on my way home from work Monday. I'm debating whether or not to fix it, and deal with any other problems it will have, or to jump ship and get something newer. The Olds has 216,XXX miles on it and is 14 years old.

There are two cars that I'm really looking at. The first of which is a 2004 Cadillac CTS with the 3.6L. It falls right in my price range (about 7-8 grand). What I'd like to know is if a 20 year old with a decent, full-time job can afford to own something like this. They seem to be pretty solid cars, but being a luxo/sporty sedan, parts (and labor for things I can't do at home) will be expensive. How reliable are these cars? Anything anybody can tell me about these would be greatly appreciated.

The second car type of car I'm looking at is a 2003-2005 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. I can find them all day long for 3-5 grand around here in VERY nice condition with about 120-150,XXX miles. They seem to be rock solid cars. I've never owned a Ford before, anybody have any experience with these? A luxury car with police spec everything? Yes please! My only hang-up about an Interceptor is that they spend so much time sitting there idling. Does this do any damage to the engines (i.e. wear them out more)? A counterpoint to that would be the fact that most police departments have their cars serviced regularly to keep them in good running condition. So I don't really know what to think.

I will be using this as a daily driver all year 'round in Michigan. The CTS has traction control, and the Interceptor has a limited slip. I commute about 40 miles every day round trip to work. Let me know what you think! Thanks guys! :thumbsup:

hueterm
03-12-11, 01:58 AM
Why do you have to have a PI? I would think you could get a regular CV or GM for $5-8K in those years with less mileage and probably less beat up...

How many miles on the CTS?

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 02:04 AM
Most of the CTSs have about 100,000-120,000 on them. I want a PI 'Vic because they are heavy-duty, and they come with a limited slip, which would be useful in the winter. (It's hard to find a regular CV with limited slip.)

hueterm
03-12-11, 02:12 AM
I'd rather have a CV w/150K than a CTS at 120K -- especially when the price is factored in. You can have money for repairs, winter tires, wheels, stereo, etc.

Aron9000
03-12-11, 02:31 AM
You do have to consider that gas is stupidly priced right now, and those Crown Vics are kind of rough on the gas, epa rates a 2003 police interceptor at 14 city/20 highway. I'd go for the Caddy CTS, those are great except for the wonky looking dashboard and cheap feeling interiors.

Playdrv4me
03-12-11, 02:39 AM
In the past I would have told you that you are more than capable of caring for the CTS as it is a relatively simple and reliable car that will provide you way more enjoyment than a Police package Crown Vic. My only reservation right now is that the 3.6 has recently been identified as having a penchant for timing chains. I don't know if there is even a way to detect this before you buy a potential car, but if it's anything like the Q45s timing chain issues, you just take a chance. Also don't know if the older 3.6s are more or less likely to have this problem than the newer ones.

I agree with Mike that you should go for a non PI Crown Vic and just search for one with the limited slip diff. Too bad you aren't further south, as Austin found a PRISTINE 2001 CV LX with the lace wheels, 52000 miles, and EVERY FACTORY OPTION including leather, trunk mounted CD changer and deluxe audio system for 5500 bucks negotiable. Given the staggering number of options on that car, I have little doubt that it also had the limited slip diff. If you insist on a PI CV, then ultimately you need to seek out a detective car or a Sherriff's personal vehicle to have the optimal chance of finding a car that wasn't ragged out. Even then, it's no guarantee.

Hell, option 3 is just to buy a nice civilian CV with the most options and the lowest price, and use your savings over the CTS to have someone install the limited slip for you. A rear end swap certainly isn't that difficult.

ben.gators
03-12-11, 04:31 AM
Well, I never have owned a CTS or CV. So I will not be able to say anything very specific about these cars. But what comes in my mind is these two cars are very different from each other! How come do they both sit simultaneously in your shopping list? If one of them suits your needs, the other should not, since they are from different breeds....
I guess you may need to take a look again to the list of your expectations from your new car.... It will help you to select one of these two cars!

ga_etc
03-12-11, 05:29 AM
When you break it down to basics, they're not all that different. They just go about their jobs in a different fashion. Both 4 door, comfortable, competent drivers, and cheap to own all costs factored in. All of that is why the '98-'02 Crown Vic and Grand Marquis are on my shopping list, thanks to a certain previously mentioned CV.

And sorry to hear about the Olds laying down on you Matt. Best of luck in whichever route you take.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-12-11, 08:34 AM
I'd personally steer clear of any Police Interceptors. They've all lived a hard life, aren't optioned that well (aside from the LSD), and most any other civilian CV or GM you'll find will be better optioned, cheaper and will have had an easier life.

With the 3.6L engine used in that CTS, the 3.6 is known for having timing chain issues, where the chains will stretch and cause all sorts of weird issues, and will ultimately need replacement, which is very expensive, but that's more of an issue on the FWD 3.6 engines, the ones used in the Lambdas and such. From what I understand, when the 3.6L first came out back in '04, GM used a steel timing chain that stood up great, but after a few years, in an effort to cut costs, they went to a composite timing chain and that's where the issues stemmed from.

At 20 years of age, the Panther platform would be more affordable and that's the one I'd go with...just no police interceptors.

drewsdeville
03-12-11, 10:11 AM
FWIW, the 4.6 had it's own set of timing chain issues for a number of years. Unlike the 3.6 where the chain is at fault, the nylon guides wear through, causing the chain to eventually ride on the aluminum hydraulic tensioner piston underneath. If the chain becomes loose enough, it actually breaks the tensioners into pieces, which you can find in the oil pan. Being a OCH like the 3.6, it's probably just as expensive to repair when taken in. There seems to be no consistency for age or mileage.

I'm sure a google search would net plenty of hits on the topic.
EDIT: sure enough, here's a brief writeup: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/115

As far as the CV being just as comfy as the CTS...not even close, even in LX trim. In my experiences with the similar Grand Marquis, the sub-par interior really becomes apparent if you do any traveling. Dashboard and door panels creak, groan and rattle, feeling like they are made out of melted down bottle caps, and the very shallow seats are downright horrible on long drives. You don't notice it until an hour or two in, but if you have long legs, thigh support is non-existent. No amount of adjusting can compensate.

That's not to say that it's not comfortable AT ALL (ride quality is damn near unmatched), but far from being as comfy as a CTS.

You get what you pay for, though, as a CV/GM can be had fairly cheap if you shop around.

Jesda
03-12-11, 01:12 PM
The early CTS's interior is pretty hard to look at, but its functional. Most of the 3.6 timing chain issues happen early in the life of the car, before 50k, and 04-07 are officially affected, though some say the old chains were still used until supplies were depleted.

The CTS is still one of my favorites, but the resale value, to me, isn't low enough yet to justify the harsh interior. Matter of preference.

hueterm
03-12-11, 02:11 PM
I would think that any CTS for $7K was beat down pretty hard, or has a bazillion miles....they're not that old...

And as to the heavy duty PIs...Panthers are pretty heavy duty out of the box (especially compared to a CTS)... Unless you're going to be jumping creeks like the Dukes of Hazzard, you should be OK w/a civi version...

hueterm
03-12-11, 02:13 PM
When you break it down to basics, they're not all that different. They just go about their jobs in a different fashion. Both 4 door, comfortable, competent drivers, and cheap to own all costs factored in. All of that is why the '98-'02 Crown Vic and Grand Marquis are on my shopping list, thanks to a certain previously mentioned CV.

And sorry to hear about the Olds laying down on you Matt. Best of luck in whichever route you take.


I'm still sorry for you that you couldn't swing that black CV, Austin... That thing sounded great...and even tempted me for a little bit... However, I need to SELL, not BUY...

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 02:52 PM
I actually talked to a guy that serviced the PI CVs today. Not going to be looking at those any more. I heard some horror stories about how badly they beat on them, and don't really maintain them that well. I'm gonna do some more searching, and see what else I can find. There's some cool stuff out there!

csbuckn
03-12-11, 04:03 PM
No Impala or Marauder?

Playdrv4me
03-12-11, 04:10 PM
Marauders are pricey. Average ones still go for 9 grand.

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 05:16 PM
I actually forgot about the Marauder. They are awesome cars. And also, the CTSs I'm looking at have about 100,000-125,000 miles on them.

Playdrv4me
03-12-11, 05:21 PM
I still think a Panther is your best choice.

ga_etc
03-12-11, 06:24 PM
If you want a CV you should really come down here and buy that '01 Matt. Fly into Atlanta and I'll come pick you up. We could hang out and you could drive it home.

Thanks Mike. I have the Eldo on CL but who knows how that'll go. That CV had to be ordered. It even has the compass/auto dimming rear view mirror.

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 06:31 PM
I'm taking a VERY serious look at the 2003-2004 Marauders. They are amazing cars, get "decent" mileage, would be a comfortable cruiser, and would be very fun and cheap for a 20 year old to own. The best part is that they fit my budget perfectly. I've e-mailed on a few. I'll keep you guys posted. :D


And Austin, send me a link, I'll take a look. :D

csbuckn
03-12-11, 06:37 PM
I wont a 10% reminder/idea fee if you find one for under 2K.

HA

ga_etc
03-12-11, 06:40 PM
Don't have a link, it's just sitting on the lot. Black on black leather, lace alloy wheels, auto climate control, digital dash, compass/auto dimming rear view mirror, trunk mounted CD changer, keyless entry with pad on the door and remote, 52,600 miles. Asking $5,500. Could probably get it for $5k out the door.

csbuckn
03-12-11, 06:45 PM
Here's a 2003 Marauder near me for $9250 with good photos.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/cto/2180700914.html

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 07:02 PM
^Wow, that's a nice one! I know that a lot of these come with sunroofs. I don't care if the one I get has one or not, but I do want to know if I'd still fit in the car with one. I'm about 6' 5". Anybody tall on here ever sit in one?

ga_etc
03-12-11, 07:16 PM
The CV/GM has good head room and the seats are power adjustable. I would imagine you'd be fine.

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 07:19 PM
^Cool. Sunroofs make life hard for a tall guy.

Playdrv4me
03-12-11, 07:44 PM
So what exactly IS your budget? You mentioned the CTS between 7-8 and panthers from 3-5 before so i guess i was a little confused. Any of these will be a tremendous step up from the olds, that's for sure.

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 07:58 PM
I will be getting an auto loan for about $7-8000. So I'll have that much to play with. When I said the Caddys were 7-8 and the Panthers 3-5, I just meant their prices in my area.

hueterm
03-12-11, 08:44 PM
If you want a CV you should really come down here and buy that '01 Matt. Fly into Atlanta and I'll come pick you up. We could hang out and you could drive it home.




This ^

If you can get a Southern car, do -- especially one w/this low of mileage that you could easily put 200,000 miles on. Why worry about the rust?

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 08:57 PM
^Very true. But a Marauder sounds like SO much more fun. :D

Playdrv4me
03-12-11, 08:59 PM
I would LOVE a Maraud-her... but, I also get the feeling that after the new wears off, a highly optioned CV LX in black on black for 5 grand less with 50k, is gonna feel a lot better in the long run. Just my opinion.

Stingroo
03-12-11, 09:06 PM
I gotta say... I don't know man. The Marauder's cosmetic touches are nice, plus the 3.55 gears.

I dig it.

hueterm
03-12-11, 09:11 PM
Of course, but using Austin's unrequited as an example, it's twice the mileage at twice the price...

I'm not real up on what's out there...but aren't there a ton of mods you can do to a Panther to up the performance? I'm sure not to Marauder levels, but significant. Elias had a Marauder...I forget now what he thought about it.

Stingroo
03-12-11, 09:15 PM
Oh you can easily bring a CV up to and PAST Marauder levels with a little coin. But does Matt really want to fly down and drive back to get a car? That's up to him I suppose.

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 09:29 PM
^For the right car, perhaps. I mean, I flew to Boston to drive back my '84 CDV. But that was special. And the one I buy has to have the limited slip diff, as I'll be driving it in the winter as well.

And Ian, I'm not so sure. I get pretty attached to a car if I have it for any amount of time. If I like the car, it never really wears off for me. Maybe I'm just weird, but I even felt that way about my Cavalier. :hide:

Stingroo
03-12-11, 09:50 PM
I (and anyone else who went to Florida '10) can attest to that. Matt loved that little car, and I have to admit as well, aside from it attempting to murder me, it was pretty cool.

drewsdeville
03-12-11, 10:26 PM
I'm not real up on what's out there...but aren't there a ton of mods you can do to a Panther to up the performance?

Being realistic, not really. A lot of times it's assumed that there's a ton of support because the drivetrain shares basic specs with the Mustang platform, but there's little to no effective support. The most I can remember for the panther 4.6 2V itself is an aftermarket set of underdrive pulleys, a few exhaust systems, and an upgrade to the Marauder style airbox/MAF with PCM tune - all of which give modest performance increases. Fairly effective as they address some of the panthers shortfalls from the factory, J-modding the 4r70w and rear end gear set swaps are also common. Aftermarket support for chassis performance has seemed to increase as of late, however.

The CV boards are full of (laughable) attempts at making power outside of those things, 95% of them are unsuccessful. The most successful perfomance increases on the panther platform are the result of complete drivetrain swaps (usually supercharged 5.4's) or lots of nitrous.

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 10:33 PM
^All of this, and the fact that I don't want to start modding what will be my daily driver. The Marauder is sporty out of the box from the factory, and I don't have to mess with it. Why make something reliable possibly not so reliable when the better version is close in price?

Playdrv4me
03-12-11, 10:34 PM
I suppose the Marauder is the way to go then. I was also going to suggest a CV LX Sport as it is an "almost" Marauder minus the powertrain (console shift, monochrome appearance package, sport wheels etc) but a post at CrownVic.net from some guy who actually owns both an '03 MM and an '05 CV LX Sport (why?) quickly put that to rest.

Stingroo
03-12-11, 10:35 PM
I'd own a Marauder just because it's rare and cool. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-12-11, 11:09 PM
Mercury also made a "Marauder Light" too. The Grand Marquis LSE was their version of the Crown Victoria LX Sport. Bucket seats, console, floor shift, analog gauges, sportier alloy wheels, dual exhaust, steeper rear axle ratio, automatic everything. I've seen a brochure from 2003 detailing it, but I don't know how long they were made for.

Playdrv4me
03-12-11, 11:15 PM
Mercury also made a "Marauder Light" too. The Grand Marquis LSE was their version of the Crown Victoria LX Sport. Bucket seats, console, floor shift, analog gauges, sportier alloy wheels, dual exhaust, steeper rear axle ratio, automatic everything. I've seen a brochure from 2003 detailing it, but I don't know how long they were made for.

Well I'll be damned... Never seen one in the flesh.

77CDV
03-12-11, 11:28 PM
Just to muddy the waters a bit, why not a newer version of your Olds, something like a 2000-2005 PAU? Should be fairly reasonable, decent on gas, and with FWD, you'd be set for those MI winters to come.

Playdrv4me
03-12-11, 11:34 PM
Yeah Austin was looking at some PAUs that looked INCREDIBLE in the right color combination and with the right wheels. Some of them even have HUD.

greencadillacmatt
03-12-11, 11:38 PM
Just to muddy the waters a bit, why not a newer version of your Olds, something like a 2000-2005 PAU? Should be fairly reasonable, decent on gas, and with FWD, you'd be set for those MI winters to come.

Aren't the Ultras supercharged? If so, doesn't that mean they require premium fuel? Plus, I don't like the styling as much as my '97. Maybe I'm just being picky, but I've never spent this much money on anything, and I want something that I'd really enjoy/like. Nothing against those cars though, they are VERY nice. (And a HUD would be really cool. :) )

Stingroo
03-12-11, 11:38 PM
Yeah, we went over that - they do require premium.

77CDV
03-12-11, 11:43 PM
An example of what you can find in CA

http://www.everycarlisted.com/ca/buellton/buick/park-avenue/vin-1g4cu541614282460#oo

greencadillacmatt
03-13-11, 12:36 AM
^Very nice find, Craig! Good looking car. :D Sadly, I just found out that the Marauder requires premium fuel as well. Hmmmmm... Anybody know if you can run it on regular? :P

UPDATE:
Just did some math comparing the Oldsmobile to the Mercury for gasoline costs.

The Olds, with an 18 gallon tank, at 3.65 for regular, is about $65 for an entire tank.

The Marauder, with a 19 gallon tank, and 3.85 for premium, is about $72 for an entire tank.

Not a HUGE difference, only about $7.

Playdrv4me
03-13-11, 01:24 AM
I was bout to say, if you can't run it with the recommended fuel it isn't worth getting in the first place. Not that it CAN'T run on regular (as with the Escalade), but the performance will suffer as a result, and then you're back to just getting a regular CV.

greencadillacmatt
03-13-11, 01:47 AM
^Exactly. I figure I can shell out an extra $10 at the pump if I get one. Not gonna break the bank.

hueterm
03-13-11, 12:15 PM
What is the Marauder's mileage, though? I would guess w/the HO motor, it's less than your Olds. One other thing you need to look at is the insurance. It would be valued much more than your Olds, which would drive the cost up, obviously -- but w/the HO motor, it may have a penalty. Plus it's rare, and might be more to fix. Given your age, it might hit you hard.

77CDV
03-13-11, 11:55 PM
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/ctd/2262154848.html

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ctd/2263912959.html

Not Marauders, but an example of the GM's available in SoCal.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/2262990431.html

Had to look long and hard for that one.

greencadillacmatt
03-14-11, 11:05 PM
^You're making me jealous of the California cars you have out there. Those are some really cherry examples. :) There is a pretty nice Grand Marquis at the local Ford dealership, and I'm thinking about taking it for a test-drive. I figure that if I like that car, then I'll love a Marauder with better seats, better handling, and more power.

77CDV
03-14-11, 11:46 PM
Or you could make Ray insanely jealous.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fantastic-Original-Wagon-2-Owners-75K-Miles-NO-RESERVE-/110660141306?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19c3dbc0fa

The upside of buying an out of state car is the road trip home! :)

greencadillacmatt
03-15-11, 12:20 AM
^HAHAHA, that's right near where he used to live, too!

Stingroo
03-15-11, 12:36 AM
Actually, that's the city I DO live in.... lol

hueterm
03-15-11, 12:40 AM
Austin should get that RMW...

ga_etc
03-15-11, 12:43 AM
I'm preoccupied with a thunderchicken.

Stingroo
03-15-11, 12:45 AM
RMW > Beat on Ford.

Just throwin' that out there. I can go inspect it. It's literally in the same city I am.

ga_etc
03-15-11, 01:00 AM
You can check on it for Matt if he likes, but it's not for me. The "beat on Ford" was built to handle 30PSI of boost.

Stingroo
03-15-11, 01:05 AM
Well, frankly:

:postpics:

ga_etc
03-15-11, 01:19 AM
Of what?

greencadillacmatt
03-17-11, 06:08 PM
^Yeah, I'm kind of curious myself now. :hmm:

ga_etc
03-17-11, 06:11 PM
I think Ray's just over enthusiastic sometimes.

96Fleetwood
03-17-11, 09:14 PM
I told you my thought on the whole Marauder idea... I owned my 2003 for 5 months. It was not worth the $$$ I sold it in November 2009 with 58K miles for $11K! I sold my '96 Fleetwood the month before for $10K with 93K on it. :yup:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/n503855835_2312146_1399293.jpg


I would pay $5-8K for a clean '96 Impala SS or '96 Fleetwood over a Marauder anyday. Why? The build quality on the Marauder was horrible. Plastic door panels creaking worse than any GM B or Dbody I ever owned. In the 5 months I had it: replaced leaky valve covers, replaced rear air suspension which blew after going over a pothole at 35mph, two power window motors, and new front shocks/tie rods/wheel hubs.

As I told you in the email; I have a friend who has a 2003 Crown Victoria sport and he paid half of what I sold the Marauder for.... there isn't much difference IMO. Sure the 32 valve motor is nice.. but in stock form it does not feel more potent than the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis setup. Interior is nicer in the CV sport and GM Ultimate IMO.

Did you ever consider a 2003 Town Car Cartier? Tons of luxury goodies for ~ 8-10K

greencadillacmatt
03-17-11, 11:29 PM
I'm not really too big into Lincolns. I have started looking at the Crown Vic Sports seriously though. They also do seem to have 15-20 more HP than the stock Vics also. My only thing is that I want it to have traction control/limited slip, since I will be driving it year-round in Michigan. I gotta find one (Sport or otherwise) at a local dealership, just so I can test-drive one, and see what I think.

There is also a 2003 Cadillac CTS at work in the Used Car Dept. It has the 3.2 engine in it. Thinking about test-driving that as well. Does anybody know anything about those engines? The car is Pearl White and LOADED. And I think I can get the car for cost, since I work there.

ltdltc
03-18-11, 12:12 AM
Traction control on a CV LX/Sport will more then likely be standard.

Its been 2 years since my decade of frequent Panther ownership (went through 4). There is no way I'd ever buy a P71 CV, nope. Considering that most of the cop upgrades are merely coil springs, alternator and the oil cooling if they still have it. Its to utilitarian of a car especially when you can get an LX which is the same thing less beat for less money.

For the money I'd go with a CTS or if your feeling brave an LS (but those have their own special problems).

A Park Avenue would be a solid choice. A Park will beat the Marauder on MPGs every time and twice on sunday.

Playdrv4me
03-18-11, 12:13 AM
2003 Town Car Cartier is up there in my list of favorite road cruisers with the 1998-2000 LS400. Frankly, you are shortchanging yourself if the badge is enough to keep you out of the comfort of a TC Cartier. Now, if you are looking at CVs that are less than 7k, I'd go with the CV.

greencadillacmatt
03-18-11, 01:33 AM
^Haha, nothing against the Lincolns, just never been a big fan of them. And yes, the Crown Vics and Grand Marquis are WAY more in my price range. :D

Aron9000
03-18-11, 02:40 AM
I just couldn't buy a 2003+ Town Car for one reason, looks like a chauffered vehicle. They're great cars, but working at a high end hotel for 4 years, has just turned me off of them. Most of the time the people getting out of the back of those Town Cars tend to be some holier than thou New York excecutive banker douche nozzle.

Really if other regular jagoffs/general public bought Town Cars for the past 4 years or so, I wouldn't have a problem. Seems like the only people they've sold to in the past 3-5 years have been limo companies.

Playdrv4me
03-18-11, 03:04 AM
I just couldn't buy a 2003+ Town Car for one reason, looks like a chauffered vehicle. They're great cars, but working at a high end hotel for 4 years, has just turned me off of them. Most of the time the people getting out of the back of those Town Cars tend to be some holier than thou New York excecutive banker douche nozzle.

Really if other regular jagoffs/general public bought Town Cars for the past 4 years or so, I wouldn't have a problem. Seems like the only people they've sold to in the past 3-5 years have been limo companies.

So just buy it in Ford's version of White Diamond with the 18" Chrome wheels. Problem solved. Also some nice shades of green out there.

Aron9000
03-18-11, 03:45 AM
So just buy it in Ford's version of White Diamond with the 18" Chrome wheels. Problem solved. Also some nice shades of green out there.

Not a fan of lighter colors on big formal cars. And I haven't seen a 2003+ Town Car in a nice navy blue, burgandy, deep purple, british racing green, or dark grey ever. I swear the only colors you could buy them in for the past few years has been silver, white, light gold, or black.

ga_etc
03-18-11, 04:15 AM
Actually sounds about right.

Playdrv4me
03-18-11, 04:43 AM
I like this color a lot...

http://images.autoconxlabs.com/Photos/626/501813626_1_B.jpg

orconn
03-18-11, 01:46 PM
Sorry, I have to agree with Aaron on the Lincoln TC thing. Aside from amorphous looking (this is being kind, the Lincoln TC always reminds me of a fat lady in a girdle) I really am put off from owning something that every livery service in the country has made ubiquitous in every large to medium size city. While Cadillacs may be for the elderly ... those few privately driven Lincoln TCs seem to be driven by those who couldn't negotiate their local Mercedes or even Cadillac agencies. A step up from a Mercury ......hummmm!

96Fleetwood
03-19-11, 12:25 AM
Sorry, I have to agree with Aaron on the Lincoln TC thing. Aside from amorphous looking (this is being kind, the Lincoln TC always reminds me of a fat lady in a girdle) I really am put off from owning something that every livery service in the country has made ubiquitous in every large to medium size city. While Cadillacs may be for the elderly ... those few privately driven Lincoln TCs seem to be driven by those who couldn't negotiate their local Mercedes or even Cadillac agencies. A step up from a Mercury ......hummmm!

I agree.. but would you pay $8K for a loaded 2003 Town Car Cartier or $10K for a 2003 Marauder? Personally I wouldn't pay more than $7K for either...

greencadillacmatt
03-19-11, 01:43 AM
^True. But I know what one I'd have more fun with.

Stingroo
03-19-11, 03:00 AM
I have succeeded in further complicating his shopping!

greencadillacmatt
03-19-11, 04:05 AM
^What he said. I'm considering a (GASP!) 2003-2004 Volvo S80 T6. Twin-Turbo Inline 6 luxury car anyone? :burn:

Playdrv4me
03-19-11, 04:07 AM
Your vehicle complexity-factor has just increased ten-fold. Ask Jesda how he knows... :D

greencadillacmatt
03-19-11, 04:57 AM
Volvo is really the only foreign vehicle I would really consider at the moment. They have some of the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in. That, and the engines in those S80 T6s pull like there is no tomorrow. (I drove one on a short run from my teacher's house to the college so he could get his truck to the college. I have to ask him what year that one was.)

Playdrv4me
03-19-11, 05:14 AM
Yea, Jesda had an S60 T5 mated to a stickshift and the thrust of that engine was insane. It also had one of the best factory sound systems I've ever heard. Unfortunately, the way Volvo ties in all of their vehicle systems is absolutely idiotic. Attempting to replace a blower resistor, Jesda somehow managed to knock out the climate control AND set an air bag fault. He also had to have the throttle control module replaced (under a lucky recall) and the ABS/Stability module was also shot.

Jesda
03-19-11, 05:27 AM
I want another Volvo at some point, electrical hazards and all. Such sweet, underrated cars.

Stingroo
03-19-11, 12:53 PM
I gave Matt a mini crash course in Volvo last night. lol

(I still think he needs a V70)

orconn
03-19-11, 01:08 PM
If the "no feel" steering doesn't put you off Volvos, then the seats will seduce you for sure!

greencadillacmatt
03-19-11, 03:20 PM
If the "no feel" steering doesn't put you off Volvos, then the seats will seduce you for sure!

I thought the one I drove felt pretty sharp. I thought it handled nicely (keep in mind I drove it for only like 3 miles). The seats were AMAZING, and the GO from the engine...

EChas3
03-19-11, 04:27 PM
After I wore out my Roadmaster in 2004, I strongly considered the Marauder. I wasn't impressed by the interior and my research suggested it really did require premium to run well. While that's not a deal-breaker, I came across a very good deal on an '01 Continental and decided to give it a try.

I did notice that Ford's 4.6 (or at least that one) was much more sensitive to variations in fuel than I was used to. I got measurably better mileage on 89 Octane E10 or unadulterated 87 Octane gas than the 87 Octane E10 around Milwaukee. The Roadmster's 5.7 ran great on almost any gas just like my previous (mostly GM) cars.

Personally, I think you're looking at higher maintenance costs with any imported car. Some of the Japanese cars will require less service but the OEM parts are more expensive (and may be increasingly hard to get.) Many aftermarket and non-manufacturer-rebuilt replacement parts for japanese cars are simply inadequate.

Playdrv4me
03-19-11, 04:32 PM
'96 Continental was my very first car, and at the time I had no idea there was even any difference between that V8 and the non DOHC V8. Except for the worthless Ford black paint from that era, that car was fun, dead nuts reliable and very comfortable. I never noticed a problem with any gas in it, and thinking back, that car really got beat to pieces over the time we had it.

I remember the salesman mentioning "that's got the Intech V8, it's almost like that Cadillac Northstar". Funny in retrospect.

greencadillacmatt
03-19-11, 05:00 PM
EChas3, I know exactly what you're saying about the inferior aftermarket parts for Japanese cars. I actually work in the parts department of a Toyota dealership, and for major electronic sensors and such, the techs practically beg the owners to not use anything but the Toyota factory replacements. The aftermarket ones just don't work as well, and actually can cause problems down the road. Also, I'm not considering anything Japanese. Not interested in any asian imports. The only foreign cars I would really consider at the moment would be Volvos. They are different, comfortable, powerful, and very nice places to be.

That being said, I still need to go and test-drive a 2003-2004 CTS, 2003-2005 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Marauder-(if I can find one), and a 2001-2004 S80 T6. There are a lot of options out there, and I want something I really like. I appreciate your input guys! If you know anything about these cars, fill me in!

96Fleetwood
03-20-11, 12:44 PM
My sister had a 2006 Volvo 2.5T. She is a travelling nurse and drove the heck out of it. She did have to repair an oil leak around 80K and the timing belt service around 90K. She sold it with 128K miles and it still ran great (good gas mileage too). She just traded it in on a 2011 Mustang GT... but does miss the Volvo occasionally.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-20-11, 01:47 PM
I always thought of the Volvos as being stark, boring cars for the upper middle class, being bought namely by wealthy, educated white collared workers. That's the old Volvo, and the newer (non boxy) models are a lot more appealing, and every one I've sat in, except for the C30s, have had awesome seats.

I also always thought the 1995-02 Continentals were really underappreciated. They may not have been as nice looking or as fast as an STS, but I believe overall they were easier to live with, more reliable as a whole and much cheaper to get into. I think that the 1995-97's were especially sharp looking. The 1998-02s weren't as sharp looking outside, but they had a nicer, warmer, richer feeling interior.

orconn
03-20-11, 03:49 PM
In the seventies and eighties Volvos offered sound quality and the "luxury" of being well built and of a useful size and utility. Comparing them to the cheap gadget bedecked, pseudo "luxury" cars that Detroit was putting out and being offered at a price far below the upper level Germans and Jags, Volvos made an attractive choice for those seeking quality and long term value in a car. It is true that the Volvo station wagon was ubiquitous in the more affluent neighborhoods of large cities on both Coasts. A green Volvo station wagon with one or two child safety seats facing backward on the rear seats was such a common sight that we used to joke that they came standard from the factory with those seats.

Ever since I first rode in a Volvo, in the early 1950's in Brazil, I noticed that these cars had seats that were superior to any others I had ridden in. Their superior seat design and comfort has carried through to today with the S80 having the most comfortable seats IMO of any car I'm the marketplace (to point of almost making up for other deficiencies the car may have). Over the years as technology has advanced it seems that Volvo has continued to produced a quality automobile, it has also fall prey to many of the reliability problems suffered by most, current, production cars. Certainly parts and maintenance now fall into the "European car" cost category afflicting other European makes with reliability only being "average" in comparison with other cars today.

EChas3
03-20-11, 10:56 PM
I always thought of the Volvos as being stark, boring cars for the upper middle class, being bought namely by wealthy, educated white collared workers. That's the old Volvo, and the newer (non boxy) models are a lot more appealing, and every one I've sat in, except for the C30s, have had awesome seats.

I also always thought the 1995-02 Continentals were really underappreciated. They may not have been as nice looking or as fast as an STS, but I believe overall they were easier to live with, more reliable as a whole and much cheaper to get into. I think that the 1995-97's were especially sharp looking. The 1998-02s weren't as sharp looking outside, but they had a nicer, warmer, richer feeling interior.

My wife's '99 STS was fun but did have a few problems. My '01 Continental didn't have those problems but wasn't nearly as well-equipped or attractive. It was a full step below the 2-year-older STS in almost every way.

EChas3
03-20-11, 11:12 PM
Yet until about 15 years ago, Volvo's did not offer luxury features or appealing styling. Modern buyers want it all and considering the cost of a personal car, they deserve it.

I fear we will soon lose Henry Ford's dream that virtually everyone can enjoy the freedom of owning a car.

Playdrv4me
03-21-11, 12:12 AM
The '95-'02 Continental was more of a competitor to the 1993-1997 Seville than anything else (and even then the auto rags called it a valiant attempt, though not quite "there"). It really stood no fair chance against the '98 and up Sevilles save for being more reliable.

orconn
03-21-11, 12:45 AM
I drove several of the '95-'02 Continentals on different occasions and they certainly didn't seem to be any competition to '93-'97 Sevilles and certainly not a Seville in STS configuration. To be honest they struck me as being super elongated eighties Thunderbird .... spruced up to be sure, but still an obsolete chassis trying to masquerade as a modern luxury car!

Playdrv4me
03-21-11, 01:26 AM
I drove several of the '95-'02 Continentals on different occasions and they certainly didn't seem to be any competition to '93-'97 Sevilles and certainly not a Seville in STS configuration. To be honest they struck me as being super elongated eighties Thunderbird .... spruced up to be sure, but still an obsolete chassis trying to masquerade as a modern luxury car!

They had nothing to do with the Thunderbird. The Continental was a heavily modified Taurus chassis. And always was since it went to FWD.

Jesda
03-21-11, 02:26 AM
Continentals are great everyday luxury cars. I wish the seats in the last generation were more comfortable. They look cushy but they're awkwardly supported. I've come close to buying one on several occasions. They're quiet, unassuming, not ugly, and bargain-priced as used sedans.

ltdltc
03-21-11, 06:24 PM
4T80E > AX4N.

Continentals are a mixed bag. Its got a detuned Intech V8 buts in a Taurus chassis with a transmission thats designed for V6s. No thank you. Read enough to know that they are ticking time bombs.

They do look good though. I mused the idea of test driving one but my time on Lincoln forums made me realize that its a no fly zone for me especially when a Seville of similar year will walk all over it. Fun fact: after 1998 Continentals only have rear air springs. 1988-1997 have air springs on all for corners similar to the Mark VIII.

Jesda
03-21-11, 06:46 PM
Did not know that! A tick in favor of 98-02

ltdltc
03-21-11, 06:55 PM
I was a year off, 1997+ have the rear only air suspension (which was the older body style).

I've read from a few owners that the adjustable suspension provide little feedback when adjusting the switch from firm to soft. Also the 4 air springs on the older Continentals can be replaced for less then the cost of one OEM GM CVRSS strut from ARNOTT, I put their air springs in my Town Car no complaints.

Playdrv4me
03-22-11, 01:18 AM
I never had any problems with the trans on the '96, and we beat the piss out of that car once the paint started to go. Conversely, I had a '97 Mark VIII that had that well known AODE fault with an overheating resistor or something, it was fixed in '98. I'd much rather take my chances on the Connie's transmission (which is also thousands less to replace) than the Sevilles headgaskets, IF the Seville wasn't such a charmer. It IS true that the selectable suspension settings on the Connie didn't do much, but the ones for the steering definitely did. Whether or not there was any point to such an arrangement in that boat of a car, is another story.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-22-11, 01:33 AM
So the Connie wasn't as tight and nice driving as the 98-04 Sevilles? How about the 1993-97 Sevilles?

drewsdeville
03-22-11, 01:37 AM
4T80E > AX4N.

... with a transmission thats designed for V6s. No thank you. Read enough to know that they are ticking time bombs.


:thumbsup: on that. Hell, they had a hard enough time standing up to the monsterous 3.0 V6. The trans was the death of my '92 at a reasonable 130k or so.

Playdrv4me
03-22-11, 02:46 AM
So the Connie wasn't as tight and nice driving as the 98-04 Sevilles? How about the 1993-97 Sevilles?

Neither, the Connie was just below the '93 to '97 SLS in terms of overall performance and fit and finish. Though the Alpine audio system was leaps and bounds better than the antiquated Bose in that generation of Seville, and the Optitron style gauges, which actually were even BETTER implemented than Lexus' version, put the cramped instrument cluster of the Seville to shame. In all other areas, the Seville handily beats the Connie pretty much.

greencadillacmatt
03-22-11, 08:45 PM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/2279445834.html

Duuuuuuuuuude...

Playdrv4me
03-22-11, 09:01 PM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/2279445834.html

Duuuuuuuuuude...

"Supercharged from the factory" :suspect:

greencadillacmatt
03-22-11, 09:30 PM
^Yeah, I did ask about that. Kinda skeptical about the whole "factory" thing. Buuuut, 13,000 miles?!? Yes please!

ltdltc
03-23-11, 01:06 AM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/2279445834.html

Duuuuuuuuuude...

That ad is full of bullshit.

The latest model year for that car could be is 2002. In 2003 the wheel offset changed and if older wheels are used on the newer Panthers they stick out and the newer wheels need to have spacers if used on older Panthers.

I'd still say a SOHC V8 Panther is pretty anemic even with duel exhaust. And you'll find more driving excitement elsewhere but that's my opinion talking. Don't really think I'll ever own one again.


I never had any problems with the trans on the '96, and we beat the piss out of that car once the paint started to go. Conversely, I had a '97 Mark VIII that had that well known AODE fault with an overheating resistor or something, it was fixed in '98. I'd much rather take my chances on the Connie's transmission (which is also thousands less to replace) than the Sevilles headgaskets, IF the Seville wasn't such a charmer. It IS true that the selectable suspension settings on the Connie didn't do much, but the ones for the steering definitely did. Whether or not there was any point to such an arrangement in that boat of a car, is another story.

AODE stopped in 1994. You had a 4R70W, I drove (1995 Town Car) mine over 260K+ with only fluid changes never dropped the pan. Overheating resister? The biggest fault is the 1-2 shift solenoid and is known to be an easy fix. Mark VIIIs are a special case. Lots of little issues, drives well enough but the HID unavailability or piss poor head lights (1993-1996) make one wonder if the price of admission is worth it.

I still say AX4N attached to a Intech V8 is a time bomb waiting for your wallet.

Playdrv4me
03-23-11, 03:10 AM
That ad is full of bullshit.

The latest model year for that car could be is 2002. In 2003 the wheel offset changed and if older wheels are used on the newer Panthers they stick out and the newer wheels need to have spacers if used on older Panthers.

I'd still say a SOHC V8 Panther is pretty anemic even with duel exhaust. And you'll find more driving excitement elsewhere but that's my opinion talking. Don't really think I'll ever own one again.



AODE stopped in 1994. You had a 4R70W, I drove (1995 Town Car) mine over 260K+ with only fluid changes never dropped the pan. Overheating resister? The biggest fault is the 1-2 shift solenoid and is known to be an easy fix. Mark VIIIs are a special case. Lots of little issues, drives well enough but the HID unavailability or piss poor head lights (1993-1996) make one wonder if the price of admission is worth it.

I still say AX4N attached to a Intech V8 is a time bomb waiting for your wallet.

Yes, the solenoid issue is what I meant. As for the HIDs, they are a large part of the reason I bought the car. The Mark VIII was the first domestic produced vehicle ever with Xenon headlights. The first year they were available ('96 LSCs) they were MUCH more of a problem than they were in '97 and '98 because they are the only HID system ever produced that ran off an A/C power source rather than traditional vehicle D/C. On top of that, the color temperature was so far skewed toward purple that the visibility was almost worthless compared with the halogens.... As a result, there were tons of vehicles converted BACK to halogen right on the production line. *However*, the halogens were so notorious for burning up the reflective material inside the housing, that the HIDs are actually in demand for those if you can find them. Now, as for the '97 and '98 ones... yes, the Sylvania HID burner is a very specific design and not easy to find... but because the reflectors are set up for HID to begin with, it is EASY to retrofit a traditional D1R or D2R bulb system that is completely reliable. The HIDs alone really set off the complete look of those cars. Unfortunately, both headlamp generations also suffer from terrible yellowing so it's tough to find them with clear lenses, or at least salvagable ones.

greencadillacmatt
03-24-11, 01:33 AM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ctd/2280529792.html
^That's one of the nicest ones I've found around here. Only 68,XXX miles, and has traction control. I LOVE that deep blue color. And it's PERFECTLY within budget. :)

Playdrv4me
03-24-11, 03:16 AM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ctd/2280529792.html
^That's one of the nicest ones I've found around here. Only 68,XXX miles, and has traction control. I LOVE that deep blue color. And it's PERFECTLY within budget. :)

Nice car, a little on the basic side but gets the job done. The way it's setup almost looks like it was a detective or government use car despite not being a PI.

ltdltc
03-24-11, 08:27 PM
The way it's setup almost looks like it was a detective or government use car despite not being a PI.

If the VIN listed for that car is accurate then it is a P71 or Police Interceptor car. They can be optioned out with SAP (Street Appearance Package) to look just like a regular CV.

Heres the Vin codes =

Crown Victoria:
P70 = Extended wheel base, mostly taxis.
P71 = Police Interceptor
P72 = Taxi Package
P73 = Base CV
P74 = LX CV/Sport
P75 = Only used to the 1992 Touring Sedan.

Grand Marquis:
M74 = GS
M75 = LS

Marauder = M79

Town Car:
M81 = Executive
M82 = Signature
M83 = Cartier

orconn
03-24-11, 08:48 PM
If the VIN listed for that car is accurate then it is a P71 or Police Interceptor car. They can be optioned out with SAP (Street Appearance Package) to look just like a regular CV.

Heres the Vin codes =

Crown Victoria:
P70 = Extended wheel base, mostly taxis.
P71 = Police Interceptor
P72 = Taxi Package
P73 = Base CV
P74 = LX CV/Sport
P75 = Only used to the 1992 Touring Sedan.

Grand Marquis:
M74 = GS
M75 = LS

Marauder = M79

Town Car:
M81 = Executive
M82 = Signature
M83 = Cartier

^^^ Come on guys, is there anyone here that would mistake that car for anything but a police vehicle?!

My friends on the L.A.P.D. and I always laugh about "unmarked" police cars being covert! The car in question looks like a government issue CV with maybe the exception of the wheels.

Playdrv4me
03-24-11, 09:20 PM
If the VIN listed for that car is accurate then it is a P71 or Police Interceptor car. They can be optioned out with SAP (Street Appearance Package) to look just like a regular CV.

Heres the Vin codes =

Crown Victoria:
P70 = Extended wheel base, mostly taxis.
P71 = Police Interceptor
P72 = Taxi Package
P73 = Base CV
P74 = LX CV/Sport
P75 = Only used to the 1992 Touring Sedan.

Grand Marquis:
M74 = GS
M75 = LS

Marauder = M79

Town Car:
M81 = Executive
M82 = Signature
M83 = Cartier

Does the street appearance package remove the PI badge?

Playdrv4me
03-24-11, 09:27 PM
^^^ Come on guys, is there anyone here that would mistake that car for anything but a police vehicle?!

Why not? I remember seeing cars identical to that brand new when I visited Ford dealerships and looked at new trucks several years ago. Blue, base, with those chrome wheel covers. I don't remember the dashboard of the base civilian CV looking quite that featureless though (I think they had a strip of faux plastic-wood).

greencadillacmatt
03-24-11, 09:42 PM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ctd/2280529792.html
So I punched the VIN from the above car into the VIN Decoder from the RWD section of this Forum. (It does Fords too.) So it came up as having EVERYTHING cop cars do, as far as handling packages and additional coolers and such. It says it's all police package stuff. But it says nowhere that the car is atually a P71 Package. Huh. So here is EVERYTHING the decoder said about the car. Was it possible to get an PI model by special order or something, even if it never actually became a cop car? Debate amongst yourselves. :)

Report for VIN: 2FAFP71W64X171088



2004 CROWN VICTORIA 4-DOOR SEDAN PO
Built: April 29, 2004
Paint Code: DX
Trim Code: PW



Original options on this vehicle


44,983 vehicles matching your year and description in our database.
Code Description
TAEKQ 3W73-5560-FA LEFT REAR COIL
TAGKQ 3W73-5560-FA RIGHT REAR COIL
FEAAB 4 WHL ANTI-LOCK BRAKES
TCMCQ 4W73-18B036-GA LEFT FRONT SPG/SHK
TCNCQ 4W73-18B036-GA RIGHT FRONT SPG/SHK
D2XAH 7.0 X 16 STEEL ROAD WHEELS
YZDBN 750A
BB7AC ADJUSTBLE ACCL/BRK FOOT PEDALS
EHGAC ALUMINIUM DRIVE SHAFT
FEFAB ANTI-SPIN TRACT BRAKES W/O IVD
FKAAB AUXILIARY TRANS OIL COOLER
BBGAG CARPET FLOOR COVERING-LEVEL 1
FLLAC COLUMN MOUNTED SHIFT LINKAGE
HCAAB CONVENTIONAL INSTRUMENTATION
AC7AB CROWN VIC GROUP LEVEL 7
BSBAB DAY/NIGHT INSIDE MIRROR
D5AAC DELUXE WHEEL COVERS
BSDBP DRIVER BLACK POWER MIRROR
F2ADP DUAL EXHAUST LESS RESONATORS
IBAAE ELECTRONIC AM/FM STEREO CASSETTE
YZMAH EN-VN 4.6L V8/GBVAF UNLEAD FUEL
JCCAB ENGINE COMPARTMENT LIGHT
C9LAB ENGINE OIL COOLER
BLAAB EXTERIOR DECOR-BASE
YZKAB FLEET
CATAB FLEET KEY
BBHAB FRONT THROW IN CARPET FLR MATS
CLVAB FRT LICENSE PLATE BRKT/HOLDER
D1DAC H/D DUAL FRONT SHOCK ABSORBERS
HTAAC HEAVY DUTY BATTERY
FBBAC HEAVY DUTY FR/RR CALIPERS AND PADS
DYKAF HEAVY DUTY POLICE FR STABILIZER BAR
D1GAC HEAVY DUTY REAR SHOCK ABSORBERS
EGJAC LIMITED SLIP REAR AXLE
JCMAB LOAD COMPARTMENT LIGHT
JCSAA LS INTER LIGHTS DEACTIVATION
JCTAA LSS PKG TY/DK LID LAMP-PRE WIR
BDDAC LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT TRIM-DELUX
BVUAC LUMBAR SEAT SUPT-PWR L/H SIDE
BYPAB MANUAL 2-WAY DRV SEAT ADJUSTER
BYQAB MANUAL 2-WAY PASS SEAT ADJUST
BVSAC MANUAL DRIVER SEAT RECLINER
FAAAB MANUAL PARKING BRAKE RELEASE
BVTAC MANUAL PASSENGER SEAT RECLINER
AD6BB MID YEAR CHANGE PROGRAM CONTROL
YCKAD MK CB-6 WY ADJ DR/MAN PAS ADJ
HDHAB MPH/KPH SPEEDOMETER
MD0N0 NAAO MARKET DERIVATIVE
IBMAB NAAO RADIO FREQUENCY
BMBAB NARROW BODYSIDE MOLDING
GBTAB NON LOCKING FUEL CAP
ACZAA NOT DEFINED
TASAM NOT DEFINED
AEDAB OWNER HAND BOOK PACK
D3JTE P225/60VR-16 BSW A-S
BSFBP PASSENGER BLACK POWER MIRROR
YZTAU POL INTRCEP-STREET APP/3.27AX
YZSAQ POLICE INTERCEPTOR MKTG SERIES
CBBAB POWER LOCK GROUP
J3FAB POWER POINT PLUG - REAR
GPAAF POWER STEERING-VARIABLE RATIO
DZABB REAR COIL SPRING
BBIAB REAR THROW IN CARPET FLR MATS
CAQAB REMOTE DECK/TAILGATE RELEASE
EJ2AB RR AXLE/WH LUBE-MINERAL BASED
DAVAB RUBBER COOLING HOSES
GBAAB SINGLE FUEL TANK
YCCAB SPARE STEEL WHL/CONV SPARE TIR
D3MEB SPARE TYRE P225/60TR16 A/S BSW
D17AD SPARE WHEEL-CONVENTIONAL STEEL
GTDAB SPEED CONTROL
YCMAE SPLIT BENCH/CLOTH
AAGAW ST. THOMAS PLANT BUILD
GTAAB STEERING WHEEL-BASE
BCAAB SUNVISOR LESS MIRROR - DRIVERS
BCBAB SUNVISOR LESS MIRROR - PASSENGER
JDAAH TAILLAMPS - LEVEL 5
AAHAB U.S. SALES
GBVAF UNLEADED FUEL CAPABILITY
DZLAC UPSIZED REAR STABLIZER BAR
BBZAF WITH CONVENTIONAL HEADLINING
AANAB WITH FLEET OPTION
AALAT WITH POLICE EQUIPMENT PACK
JCFAE WITH POLICE MOUNTED MAP LIGHT
FS00K WITH SPLIT BENCH FRONT SEAT
ABTAA WITHOUT AMBIENT TEMP/SPEED PACK
HNAAA WITHOUT ANTI-THEFT SYSTEM
IBFAA WITHOUT AUDIO DISC PLAYER
JZGAA WITHOUT AUX FUSE PANEL
TAPAA WITHOUT B&A CONTROL CODES ISSUE 030388
HTPAA WITHOUT BATTERY (JUMPER) CABLES
CJDAA WITHOUT BODY TU-TONE PAINT
CJRAA WITHOUT BODYSIDE ACCENT STRIPE
AFAAA WITHOUT CANADIAN PROVINCES/TERRIT
BD9AA WITHOUT CARGO NET KIT
AAMAA WITHOUT CONVENIENCE GROUP
YPKAA WITHOUT CONVENIENCE PACKAGE
JBTAA WITHOUT CORNERING LAMPS
BA2AA WITHOUT CUPHOLDERS - REAR
JBCAA WITHOUT DAYTIME RUNNING LAMPS
CBAAA WITHOUT DOOR LOCKS
CBFAA WITHOUT DR ENTRY REMOTE CNTR UNIT
CPMAA WITHOUT DR SEAT AIR BAG RESTRAINT
BU6AA WITHOUT DRIVER SEAT BACK MAP POCKET
AHKAA WITHOUT FIRE EXTINGUISHER
AAFAB WITHOUT FLEET RELATED ITEMS
IGDAA WITHOUT GARAGE DOOR OPENER
BBUAA WITHOUT GENERAL STOWAGE BOX
DWCAA WITHOUT HANDLING PACKAGE
ADTAA WITHOUT HEAD IMPACT CRASH CRITERA
JBEAA WITHOUT HEADLAMPS - WIPER ACTIVTD
JCAAA WITHOUT ILLUMINATED ENTRY SYSTEM
DEBAA WITHOUT IMMERSION HEATER
JCBAA WITHOUT INTERIOR LIGHT GROUP
CAUAA WITHOUT KEYED ALIKE OPTIONS
CBGAA WITHOUT KEYLESS ENTRY SYSTEM
JBWAA WITHOUT LIGHTING PACKAGES
ADSAA WITHOUT LONG WHEELBASE PACKAGE
YCAAA WITHOUT MARKETING COMB-EXT MIRROR
AGBAA WITHOUT MASS CUSTOMIZATION PACKAG
ABDAA WITHOUT MILITARY RQMTS
YCLAA WITHOUT MK CB-TEMP CONTR ST-DR/PA
YCFAA WITHOUT MRK COMB-SD A/BAG DR/PASS
YCGAA WITHOUT MRKT CB-REM K-LESS ENTRY
YCEAA WITHOUT MRKT COMB-LAMP DRVR/PASS
YCDAA WITHOUT MRKT COMB-ROOF WIRING
YPSAA WITHOUT MRKT VISIBILITY PACKAGE
YPTAA WITHOUT MRKT WIRING PREP PACKAGE
B5VAA WITHOUT OVERHEAD CONSOLE
AD4AA WITHOUT PAINT PACKAGE
CPNAA WITHOUT PASS SEAT AIR BAG RESTR
YPMAA WITHOUT POLICE PACKAGE
BURAA WITHOUT POUCH-FRONT CUSH STOW
JZRAA WITHOUT POWER DISTRIBUTION BOX-RR
JZQAA WITHOUT PWR DISTRIBUTION BOX-FRT
BVVAA WITHOUT R/H SIDE LUMBAR SEAT SUPT
JBSAA WITHOUT R/H SPOT LIGHT
IELAA WITHOUT RADIO NOISE SUPRESSION
IBCAA WITHOUT RADIO PRE-EQUIPMENT PACK
BWFAA WITHOUT REAR SEAT CENTER ARMREST
B2DAA WITHOUT REAR SIDE WINDOW
GTEAA WITHOUT REDUNDANT CTL -STEER WHL
JCGAA WITHOUT ROOF HEADER LIGHTS
CHAAA WITHOUT ROOF OPENING PANELS
J1CAA WITHOUT ROOF WIRING
A1XAA WITHOUT ROOF WIRING HOLE
JCJAA WITHOUT RR OVERHEAD READING LAMPS
AB5AA WITHOUT SALES BADGE
AC3AA WITHOUT SALES FEATURE LEVEL-3
B2HAA WITHOUT SECURITY GLASS
J1BAA WITHOUT SIREN/HORN WIRING
BDLAA WITHOUT SPARE TYRE COVER
AEAAA WITHOUT SPECIAL LANGUAGE LABELS
ABEAA WITHOUT SPECIAL VALUE PACKAGES
IDFAA WITHOUT SPKR. WIRING -2 WAY RADIO
JBMAA WITHOUT SPOT LIGHT
YPLAA WITHOUT TAXI PACKAGE
BY1AA WITHOUT TEMP CONTROL DRIVER SEAT
BY2AA WITHOUT TEMP CONTROL PASSNGR SEAT
AHPAA WITHOUT TOOL KITS
HEBAA WITHOUT TRIPMINDER
BEFAA WITHOUT TRUNK PACKAGES
CJBAA WITHOUT TU-TONE ACCENT COLOR
IDAAA WITHOUT UPGRADED SOUND SYSTEM
CAHAA WITHOUT VALET KEY
AACAA WITHOUT VERSION PACKAGES
AHHAA WITHOUT WARNING DISPLAYS
J1AAA WITHOUT WIRING PREP

Playdrv4me
03-24-11, 09:58 PM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ctd/2280529792.html
So I punched the VIN from the above car into the VIN Decoder from the RWD section of this Forum. (It does Fords too.) So it came up as having EVERYTHING cop cars do, as far as handling packages and additional coolers and such. It says it's all police package stuff. But it says nowhere that the car is atually a P71 Package. Huh. So here is EVERYTHING the decoder said about the car. Was it possible to get an PI model by special order or something, even if it never actually became a cop car? Debate amongst yourselves. :)



YZTAU POL INTRCEP-STREET APP/3.27AX
YZSAQ POLICE INTERCEPTOR MKTG SERIES

There's the street appearance package LTDLTC was talking about.

I guess P71 has to do with the VIN itself.

Not sure why it says YPMAA WITHOUT POLICE PACKAGE though.

greencadillacmatt
03-25-11, 11:03 PM
http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ctd/2285505583.html

^We just got this in at work yesterday. It's only got 44,XXX miles on it! I test-drove it today and I FREAKING LOVE IT. Comfy, powerful enough to get out of it's own way, and it looks DAMN good in red. Whatcha think? (Also, I get employee pricing, so it fits my budget. Kinda. :thumbsup:)

96Fleetwood
03-26-11, 11:22 AM
http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ctd/2285505583.html

^We just got this in at work yesterday. It's only got 44,XXX miles on it! I test-drove it today and I FREAKING LOVE IT. Comfy, powerful enough to get out of it's own way, and it looks DAMN good in red. Whatcha think? (Also, I get employee pricing, so it fits my budget. Kinda. :thumbsup:)


For that price you can get a Marauder.

greencadillacmatt
03-26-11, 01:52 PM
^That's the only thing. I'd like the Marauder better, but it takes premium. That takes regular, but wouldn't be as much fun. Hmmm...

Playdrv4me
03-27-11, 04:53 AM
If I was forced to choose between those two (meaning TC is out of the picture), I would choose the Marauder any day of the week. That Marquis can be found in numerous parts of the country for what, 6-8k? I would feel like I got highway robbed without a reacharound at anything above about 8500 for a CV or GM.

greencadillacmatt
03-27-11, 08:04 PM
^Thats what I was thinking. It's nice, but not THAT nice. :yup:

greencadillacmatt
03-27-11, 09:09 PM
WOW. DO WANT> http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/cto/2274987803.html

Playdrv4me
03-27-11, 10:15 PM
I like that.

Stingroo
03-27-11, 11:04 PM
That's the 3rd time you've linked someone to that car. lol

greencadillacmatt
03-31-11, 10:09 PM
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/cto/2274665632.html

That seems like a great deal. Especially since they said it's OBO. FULLY LOADED and oh so comfortable.

I sat in a Volvo S60 today, but it had the sunroof. My head was perfectly flush with the roof of the car. So that kind of means the S60s are out, since I can't find any WITHOUT a sunroof. I still can't get over the seats in these things though. :thumbsup:

Stingroo
04-01-11, 12:18 AM
TT. No thanks.

greencadillacmatt
04-01-11, 01:15 AM
^I think its coooooool. They are harder to find, but they also do make a I-5 Single Turbo model (2.5T) with AWD.

Stingroo
04-01-11, 02:00 AM
The 2.5T would be a better choice.

77CDV
04-01-11, 04:42 PM
Good gracious, Matt, haven't you bought a car yet? Well, if you really want the whole g-man vibe....

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ctd/2299567929.html

orconn
04-01-11, 05:38 PM
Good gracious, Matt, haven't you bought a car yet? Well, if you really want the whole g-man vibe....

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ctd/2299567929.html

Hope you are not trying to go anywhere "in cognito" in one of those things; they can be spotted from space! I have several young friends who are FBI agents, fortunately the Bureau has better "covert" cars! At least I hope so.

My old office at LAX back in the 1980"s looked out on the roof top of a parking garage where I am sure some law enforcement organization was storing their undercover vehicles. A very odd assortment of all different kinds of cars and even pickups, vans and trucks. There must have been fifty vehicles up there, and every day or so a car or truck or two would disappear, and then sometime later return to sit on the roof for months at a time. I don't remember a Ferraris up there, but then this was early on in the "Drug Wars." There were high Mercedes and the like though!

greencadillacmatt
04-01-11, 07:42 PM
I knew if I started looking at these I'd really like them. But there is one small problem. The NorthStar. How reliable are they in the 2003-2005 DTSs? Cause they look like niiiiiiice cars. Like this one: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/ctd/2299889554.html

Playdrv4me
04-01-11, 07:54 PM
Danger, Will Robinson!

I would STRONGLY suggest a 2006 or newer, they are out there if you are patient.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-01-11, 07:59 PM
I only ever had one issue with that generation of northstar and it seems to be very common

theres a rubber boot between the throttlebody and the intake plenum. it develops a tiny tear that makes your car rough, not like a misfire rough but not cadillac smooth. the piece is cheap but you have to pull the intake to replace it

id stay away from those ugly faux-vertible tops though

OffThaHorseCEO
04-01-11, 08:01 PM
why do dealers still insist on putting those ugly canvas tops on cadillacs nowadays. the shape of modern cadillacs is not suited to those tops. ive seen them on CTSs yuck

word on the streets is they are used to hide imperfections in the roof sheetmetal. it may not be true, but, everytime i see one of those tops i assume the roof had issues

greencadillacmatt
04-01-11, 08:07 PM
What makes the 2006+ model N* better? Do they not have the head-gasket problems like the old ones? Cause I just found THIS: http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tab=summary&recnum=&actLog=&listingId=61065600&paId=388614344&listingRecNum=&criteria=&tracktype=usedcc&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE&certifiedOnly=false&&aff=national

OffThaHorseCEO
04-01-11, 08:16 PM
by 06 the engine had pretty much evolved as much as it was going to.

however, the link you provided is lux i which is like saying deville (not dhs or dts) its the most basic DTS you can get

77CDV
04-02-11, 03:28 AM
I knew if I started looking at these I'd really like them. But there is one small problem. The NorthStar. How reliable are they in the 2003-2005 DTSs? Cause they look like niiiiiiice cars. Like this one: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/ctd/2299889554.html

I had a 2003 DHS, and I thought it a very nice ride. Don't know about issues because I traded it in for my 2006 DTS Lux III, which is also a very nice ride. The 06 seems a bit more quiet and smooth than the 03 did.


What makes the 2006+ model N* better? Do they not have the head-gasket problems like the old ones? Cause I just found THIS: http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tab=summary&recnum=&actLog=&listingId=61065600&paId=388614344&listingRecNum=&criteria=&tracktype=usedcc&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE&certifiedOnly=false&&aff=national

This is like the rental I had in WPB last year. If you liked that car, you'll like this car.

Stingroo
04-02-11, 12:58 PM
IMO that car was exceptionally nice inside.

greencadillacmatt
04-02-11, 05:31 PM
^I thought it was great. It has the leather, the ride, and the sound-system, the heated seats, all that kind of cool stuff. Hmmmm...

I also found this, which for the mileage on it I think is a good price: http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=59558707&listingRecNum=3&criteria=prMx%3D10000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%2 6alMdId%3D20906%26mkId%3D20015%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId %3D20906%26rd%3D150%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D49078%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26alMkId%3D20015%26rpp%3D50%26fe edSegId%3D28705&aff=national

And since I keep getting hounded by the used car guys at work now (since I expressed interest in the Mercury Grand Marquis) I told them if they lop $1000 off the out-the-door price, I'd probably buy it. One of them said to wait until May, because it will have sat on the lot for a month+ and they will be itching to sell it then. I really like that car. Hmmm. :)

hueterm
04-02-11, 11:08 PM
There's got to be something wrong w/that DTS for an 06 Luxury w/45K miles for only $8ish K...

77CDV
04-02-11, 11:08 PM
Well, since you've moved your sights upward a bit....

http://www.ocimperial.com/newandusedcars/4901/863933/b2579b32-b3a2-404e-9fcf-891977c6dd7c/Craigslist/2000-Cadillac-DeVille.aspx

Stingroo
04-02-11, 11:20 PM
why do dealers still insist on putting those ugly canvas tops on cadillacs nowadays. the shape of modern cadillacs is not suited to those tops. ive seen them on CTSs yuck

word on the streets is they are used to hide imperfections in the roof sheetmetal. it may not be true, but, everytime i see one of those tops i assume the roof had issues

They're for old Floridians. You can even get a canvas top on a Camry. BALLLINNNNNNNNNN'!

Stingroo
04-02-11, 11:21 PM
Also, the 06+ DeVille/DTS/DHS looks much MUCH nicer than the 00-05.

At least, to my eye.

Playdrv4me
04-02-11, 11:27 PM
2006 will cost you a little more but will reward you with the newest and final updates for the FWD N*, Xenon headlights, LED Tail lights, heated and cooled seats, and of course a more modern and more distinguished exterior. If I really wanted a N* powered anything, I would hold out for one of those. There's a ton of other available features, but in your price range you will likely be at a base DTS.

However... if you can get the price down sufficiently on the Grand Marquis, there is no reason not to go for that instead.

Stingroo
04-02-11, 11:38 PM
Could you get an 06 DTS in green by chance? :lol:

greencadillacmatt
04-03-11, 08:19 PM
http://www.231yescars.com/vehicledetails.aspx?VID=131853492

HOLY. FREAKING. BUICK.

greencadillacmatt
04-03-11, 08:54 PM
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/cto/2274665632.html

Also, I'm test-driving that tomorrow at 7:30. :D

OffThaHorseCEO
04-03-11, 09:48 PM
http://www.231yescars.com/vehicledetails.aspx?VID=131853492

HOLY. FREAKING. BUICK.
If you consider this ask about the front end. From that pic it looks like the pass headlight isnt lined up right, also the trim on the fender is out of whack

Stingroo
04-03-11, 09:53 PM
Headlight looks okay from the other pics, but the trim piece is definitely messed up.

ga_etc
04-03-11, 11:06 PM
The headlights on the Roadmaster are fine. The trim above the turn signal looks a little off, though, as well as the bump strip on the passenger fender by the door, and the corner of the bumper on the driver side is angled up. Something's up. Also, who lists an 18,000 mile car and doesn't take a direct, clear picture of the odometer?

There's also a dent in the passenger fender that they're trying to be clever and hide. That's not a $9,000 car.

greencadillacmatt
04-03-11, 11:20 PM
^Oh, I know it's not a $9000 car. It's just, when do you see a 19 year old car with THAT kind of mileage? Kinda neat. Really looking forward to seeing if I don't rail my head on the sunroof in the Volvo tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

greencadillacmatt
04-04-11, 11:37 PM
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=59296506&listingRecNum=8&criteria=prMx%3D10000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%2 6alMdId%3D21920%26mkId%3D20044%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId %3D21920%26rd%3D150%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D49078%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26alMkId%3D20044%26rpp%3D50%26fe edSegId%3D28705&aff=national

^That is freaking sweet, and it's AWD, and it's the I-5 Turbo engine. The only problem is, it says it has a rebuilt title. Does anybody have any experience with rebuilt titles? What does that all mean? If anyone know anything about that, please let me know!

Playdrv4me
04-04-11, 11:41 PM
Sooo what happened with the test drive?

Rebuilt means that it was mostly likely in a serious accident or otherwise declared a total loss, and then it was made semi roadworthy again and re-certified by the local DMV. It's damn near impossible to know what you're getting into with something like that. Sometimes you luck out and there aint a damn thing wrong with it, but most of the time you are asking for trouble.

hueterm
04-04-11, 11:42 PM
It means run away...

77CDV
04-04-11, 11:44 PM
http://www.231yescars.com/vehicledetails.aspx?VID=131853492

HOLY. FREAKING. BUICK.

Aside from the cloth interior and wire discs, it looks like my mom's old car.

Anyway, you need this:

http://ventura.craigslist.org/ctd/2303115279.html

greencadillacmatt
04-04-11, 11:46 PM
Cool, that's all I needed to know. And I didn't get to take my test-drive. 15 minutes before I was to leave to go drive it, the guy called and said he sold it. I just wanna know if I fit in one! (Since it seems that ALL Volvos have a damned sunroof. :rant: )

77CDV
04-04-11, 11:48 PM
^It's the mild, sunny Swedish climate. Gotta have a sunroof in Sweden.

greencadillacmatt
04-04-11, 11:57 PM
^And Craig, if that wasn't all the way out in Cali, and about $3,500 out of my price range, I'd be ALL OVER THAT.

96Fleetwood
04-05-11, 09:00 AM
Here is a classy Marauder killer.... I bet he would take $3,500.

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=257558

Stingroo
04-05-11, 09:03 AM
He's still selling that car? Drool.

Only thing it needs is a factory steering wheel and it's good to go.

OffThaHorseCEO
04-05-11, 11:19 AM
fuzzy fur on the b pillar :barf:

Playdrv4me
04-05-11, 06:09 PM
I would rock that for 3500 ALL day long... With the wheels. Extremely tempting, I love cars with known history and care in upgrades.

orconn
04-05-11, 08:15 PM
fuzzy fur on the b pillar :barf:

Hey, it's a hairy machine!

77CDV
04-06-11, 12:23 AM
^And Craig, if that wasn't all the way out in Cali, and about $3,500 out of my price range, I'd be ALL OVER THAT.

That's what road trips are for, Matt! :D

greencadillacmatt
04-06-11, 01:38 AM
http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/cto/2306851166.html

I know, I know, it's a Jag (READ: Ford Mondeo), but WOW. Anybody know about these? I might ask more about them at work tomorrow. (Being linked to a Jag dealership isn't ALWAYS a bad thing. :) )

Aron9000
04-06-11, 01:49 AM
Heard those things were JUNK!!! Although if you work at a Jag dealer it might not be such a big deal to get it worked on. The AWD would be nice as well.

greencadillacmatt
04-06-11, 02:01 AM
^Yeah, I've read a lot of mixed reviews. I like to keep my options open, and I like to window-shop cars. Sorry if it's getting annyoing! :P

Playdrv4me
04-06-11, 02:14 AM
I had one for about 4 days before it got rear ended by a drunk driver and totaled. My overall opinion was "meh" with the 2.5. If it doesn't have the 3.0L, it's pretty boring, not to mention the 2.5 has more issues than the 3.0L too.

ga_etc
04-06-11, 02:57 AM
Still say you should have come down here and bought that '01 CV LX...

greencadillacmatt
04-06-11, 07:19 PM
^By the time I figured out I could get something newer it was gone. I looked for it for a good while. Too bad, really.

ga_etc
04-06-11, 10:50 PM
It was never listed online. It just happened to be sitting on the lot where I went to look at the Cutlass. I guess, technically, there's still a slim chance they might still have it.

greencadillacmatt
04-07-11, 12:11 AM
Hmmmm.... How much did they want for it? But at the same time, the 03's and up have a more modern steering/front suspension system. I'm still drooling over the Dark Toredor Red Grand Marquis at work. It's FULLY loaded, and its pristine. But that means $10,400. I might bite the bullet and get it. Hmmmm...

ga_etc
04-07-11, 12:58 AM
This was an '01 Crown Vic LX that was loaded to the hilt. Had to have been ordered. 52k miles for $5,500. I think I still have the card from the car lot...

greencadillacmatt
04-07-11, 02:00 AM
^Sounds really cool. Roadtrip!

Playdrv4me
04-07-11, 02:04 AM
That was a NICE car.

greencadillacmatt
04-07-11, 02:13 AM
THIS is what I'm on about. I think the color combo is amazing.

http://www.metro-toyota.com/VehicleDetails/used-2005-Mercury-Grand_Marquis-LS-Kalamazoo-MI/1029633223

ga_etc
04-07-11, 02:19 AM
^Sounds really cool. Roadtrip!

Didn't we just go through this like a month ago??? One of these days you'll learn to listen. :P

96Fleetwood
04-08-11, 08:55 AM
http://mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60678

Playdrv4me
04-08-11, 04:18 PM
http://mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60678
Buy this!

greencadillacmatt
04-09-11, 02:13 AM
^OOOOOOOOOOOH. That's tempting.

I also found this:
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/2310771853.html

Playdrv4me
04-09-11, 02:30 AM
^OOOOOOOOOOOH. That's tempting.

I also found this:
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/2310771853.html

" minimal rust." = FAIL.

ANY time someone mentions rust at ALL, it's because there's no way they'll be able to hide how much of it there is and it's already eating up the body. Besides, the Marauder is close to you and it's exactly what you wanted for probably 1400.00 less than the Grand Marquis, in similar condition.

Generally speaking, whenever Elias posts a car link, I pay attention. He's the only person more car anal than me. I remember I once asked about buying one of his past cars, and he admitted to me I probably wouldn't be happy with it, because it wasn't completely up to his standards, and thus wouldn't be up to mine.

greencadillacmatt
04-09-11, 04:31 PM
^It is exceptionally nice. I worked out some gas money calculations with the Marauders, and I can't afford them what with gas prices the way they are. Since they take premium, and since gas is about $4.00 for premium already, it would cost me about $625 more a year for gas. I'm going to try and talk down the dealership guys on the Grand Marquis at work. The one I did talk to seemed willing to negotiate. I also did find this AMAZING Roadmaster Wagon in my area. Check it ouuuut: http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=63534403&listingRecNum=3&criteria=prMx%3D10000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%2 6mkId%3D20006%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D21832%26rd%3D1 50%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D49078%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national

orconn
04-09-11, 04:52 PM
^^^ Go with the Roadmaster wagon, while gas mileage might not be the best, lower up front money and less expesive repairs should help ........ if all else fails you can always live in the back of it!

Stingroo
04-09-11, 05:05 PM
BUY THAT WAGON ASAP. You'll get comprable mileage to the GM, and that car is SUPER CHEAP for what you're getting.

hueterm
04-09-11, 05:59 PM
Unless there is something wrong with that wagon, that is an INCREDIBLE price. I would look it over carefully, but if it checks out, you cannot do better than that...!

Stingroo
04-09-11, 06:03 PM
^ What he said. Like, you could flip that damn car if there's really nothing wrong with it. lol

That's not too far from Elias, I don't think....

Playdrv4me
04-09-11, 08:30 PM
Concert Sound II, when Concert Sound I just won't do...

LOL, seriously, I am not a huge full size wagon fan, but holy hell that thing is SPARKLING. I concur with the 'Roo and the Hueter... THAT is going to be your HANDS DOWN best bet as far as price, condition and miles. If you absolutely can't swing the Marauder, you aren't going to do any better than that Wagon for that kind of money.

That isn't some hole in the wall car lot either, since it is a Volvo dealer, it is fairly likely that car really is as good as it looks. My only concern in that area would be rust, so check it over thoroughly from undercarriage to roof rack. You DON'T want to deal with rust, period.

hueterm
04-09-11, 08:50 PM
Well, it's going to have rust, unless it was a southern car or it was stored in the winter. A manageable amount of undercarriage rust is different than body rust, though. (Ask me...I know...)

Playdrv4me
04-09-11, 08:55 PM
Well, it's going to have rust, unless it was a southern car or it was stored in the winter. A manageable amount of undercarriage rust is different than body rust, though. (Ask me...I know...)

Yea I don't mean surface rust... My '95 Taurus SHO had undercarriage rust so bad I could tear structural pieces off with hand. And what was strange was that the body was damn near mint, the interior looked brand new. Old New York couple who looked after the car religiously, but left it out on the street. If you look closely enough, you can tell the difference between a place where rust has settled on top, versus a place where it has begun to decrease the structural integrity of the metal.

orconn
04-09-11, 09:16 PM
I hope your lack of response to all this fine advice means you are on your way to buy the Roadmaster wagon!

96Fleetwood
04-10-11, 12:12 AM
I hope your lack of response to all this fine advice means you are on your way to buy the Roadmaster wagon!

I hope so too.. Roadmaster wagons can be fun! This is what I turned my old '95 Roadmaster wagon into:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/IMG_9632.jpg

hueterm
04-10-11, 01:00 AM
If I didn't already have two, and had dumped large coin into both...I'd have sent my friend Bill over there to take a look (which did me so much good w/my current DCM RMW) and would have probably already sent them a deposit...

Aron9000
04-10-11, 06:56 AM
BUY IT NOW!!!!!!!

I swear I might have just bought that thing if it were a southern car. If the undercarrige and body are minimally rusty, that's a fantastic deal. Those LT1 wagons tend to be pricey for a nice one, like 6-9k even now.

DouglasJRizzo
04-10-11, 08:59 AM
So I may be looking for a new (used) vehicle. I love my Oldsmobile, but the trans blew up on my way home from work Monday. I'm debating whether or not to fix it, and deal with any other problems it will have, or to jump ship and get something newer. The Olds has 216,XXX miles on it and is 14 years old.

There are two cars that I'm really looking at. The first of which is a 2004 Cadillac CTS with the 3.6L. It falls right in my price range (about 7-8 grand). What I'd like to know is if a 20 year old with a decent, full-time job can afford to own something like this. They seem to be pretty solid cars, but being a luxo/sporty sedan, parts (and labor for things I can't do at home) will be expensive. How reliable are these cars? Anything anybody can tell me about these would be greatly appreciated.

The second car type of car I'm looking at is a 2003-2005 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. I can find them all day long for 3-5 grand around here in VERY nice condition with about 120-150,XXX miles. They seem to be rock solid cars. I've never owned a Ford before, anybody have any experience with these? A luxury car with police spec everything? Yes please! My only hang-up about an Interceptor is that they spend so much time sitting there idling. Does this do any damage to the engines (i.e. wear them out more)? A counterpoint to that would be the fact that most police departments have their cars serviced regularly to keep them in good running condition. So I don't really know what to think.

I will be using this as a daily driver all year 'round in Michigan. The CTS has traction control, and the Interceptor has a limited slip. I commute about 40 miles every day round trip to work. Let me know what you think! Thanks guys! :thumbsup:

The P71, (Ford speak for CV police) is a rock solid vehicle that would easily go 250-300k. The roadside idling wouldn't hurt too much if oil and other things are attended to regularly. Some municipalities are good like this, others aren't.

Things to watch out for, first and foremost, accidents! CV's get POUNDED hard when patrolmen ram them, jump curbs, run red lights and stop signs, it's a fact of life. Some cars never see this, others get slammed repeatedly. Mismatched paint/body panels are a dead giveaway and most municipalities don't pay for high quality repairs. Other problems are when emergency equipment, partitions, aerials, radios/computers, cages etc are removed incorrectly and the car is damaged.

Playdrv4me
04-11-11, 02:52 AM
Holy late response, Batman. Think we ruled the P71 out about 8 pages ago...

greencadillacmatt
04-11-11, 03:01 AM
^This. I'm calling on that Roadmaster tomorrow durring my lunch break. This should be interesting. :D

Playdrv4me
04-11-11, 03:11 AM
Do it, Do it, Do it! (If it's good :) ).

greencadillacmatt
04-11-11, 03:19 AM
Hahahahaha. Good to see I have your guys' support. (Read: Rabid Approval.)

Stingroo
04-11-11, 08:52 AM
Moar wagonz. MOOOOOAAAAAARRRRRRRRR.

96Fleetwood
04-11-11, 07:28 PM
I went to see the RMW after work today. I did not have time to test drive it but it started up and it seemed like all the power accessories and a/c worked. Here are the few things I found... keep in mind this is a 16 year old vehicle:

1) Left rear dog leg and left bottom quarter panel had surface rust starting

2) Small dents along the driver's front fender

3) Wood grain has some cracking and there is some peeling along the border

4) Missing drivers side front centercap (goodluck finding one cheap)

5) Power antenna does not work

6) Scuffs on right rear tailight

7) Small dents in chrome trim around rear of vehicle

8) Fading of paint above some trim and side mirrors

The tires appeared to have at least 50% tread left. Motor sounded good without the notorious manifold leak tick... but it was warm out so it might have it. The paint shines remarkably well, I think it was garage kept and/or a good repaint.

The interior is in great shape. The driver's seat has one small pen tip size hole and minor wear on the bolster. The center armrest and rest of the interior looks ok.

Undercarriage has the typical Midwest flake despite appearing to have some type of undercoating.

The mileage can be a mixed blessing. The engine was steam cleaned so it is hard to tell if crucial parts like the waterpump and oil cooler lines are original.

I would say it is not worth the asking price but it is getting harder and harder to find these wagons with low mileage and clean interiors. I would say it is worth $4,500 out the door max.

Pics:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/IMG_1643.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/IMG_1640.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/IMG_1645.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/IMG_1641.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/IMG_1642.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/IMG_1644.jpg




It could look like this without the woodgrain ;)

http://www.ferrstein.com/DCM1.jpg

Stingroo
04-11-11, 07:33 PM
Or you could strip and polish the trim. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-11-11, 07:36 PM
I actually saw a WB4 (is that right?) Woodgrain delete Roadmaster wagon for sale up in St. Paul last weekend. It was a white 95-96, with the alloy wheels.

Stingroo
04-11-11, 07:43 PM
Yep. WB4 = wood delete.

Playdrv4me
04-11-11, 08:52 PM
Sounds like an overall positive condition report for something old, and something which is usually used and abused and not maintained.

greencadillacmatt
04-11-11, 11:27 PM
Going to see if I can get out of work an hour or so early and make the cruise to Illinois to test that thing out. I can't wait! THANKS SO MUCH ELIAS! I've definately got haggling ammo thanks to you! :D :D :D

These are the pictures the dealer sent me today. Enjoy!

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/001.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/004.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/003.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/007.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/002.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/008.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/005.jpg

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/006.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-12-11, 12:41 AM
Best of luck!

Stingroo
04-12-11, 01:15 AM
I'm just as excited as Matt is.

This is sad. :lol:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-12-11, 01:19 AM
My '95 Roadmaster had the same interior color as well, except it was a sedan....and a Limited.

Stingroo
04-12-11, 01:21 AM
Supposedly, the non-limited seats are more comfortable according to a lot of the wagon forum guys. I'm not so sure....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-12-11, 01:29 AM
They are, atleast in the 95-96 Limiteds. Those weren't that deep or fantastically soft like the earlier Limited seats, and the base seats were much deeper than the 95-96 Limited seats. But, the Limiteds had heated seats, power recline, memory and lumbar. The base seats got none of those.

Stingroo
04-12-11, 01:32 AM
Yeah, I don't know why they'd do that. lol Silly GM.

ga_etc
04-12-11, 02:23 AM
Mine has manual recline on the driver seat, but power recline on the passenger seat. That doesn't do much good since the motor is locked up... but it's there. My only complaint on the base seats is they could use a little more leg support. Other than that they're pretty nice. And much better looking than the Limited seats, IMO. Kinda sucks having to vacuum between all those little pleats though lol.

Best of luck Matt! It's a damn sharp car for decent money.

96Fleetwood
04-12-11, 09:04 AM
Your welcome, sorry I didn't have the time to test drive it but it looked ok from what I could see for a 16 year old vehicle.

Now that I think about it, the salesman kept telling me there was a buyer from Michigan coming to see it... haha!

Stingroo
04-12-11, 09:08 AM
That's pretty funny. :lol:

hueterm
04-12-11, 10:00 AM
This one looks the same as my DCM, except mine is a '95 and has been partially repainted. I'm going to have my pillars painted, I believe, since they are still faded, so they will match the repainted roof. The only non-repainted parts at this point will be the area under the woodgrain. What a money pit nightmare. The back part of the roof, under the rails is going to have to be repainted again (under warranty) as there is a chip in it.

I took the scabby alloys that came on it and use them for the winter tires on my white '94 RMW, they're not year accurate, but I don't really care. I put the year correct wires from my white and put them on the DCM, and bought Austin's non-year correct wires and put them on my white (which I had detailed yesterday, and those wires look awesome when they're clean).

It now has 74K miles with a rebuilt trans and replaced A/C compressor. So it "should" last for quite a while.

Stingroo
04-12-11, 10:05 AM
Black the pillars out. :)

hueterm
04-12-11, 12:36 PM
:umno:

I do have the windows blacked out though, and it really does look better. Not to mention, it keeps Beretta (and me) cooler.

hueterm
04-12-11, 12:39 PM
Mine has manual recline on the driver seat, but power recline on the passenger seat. That doesn't do much good since the motor is locked up... but it's there. My only complaint on the base seats is they could use a little more leg support. Other than that they're pretty nice. And much better looking than the Limited seats, IMO. Kinda sucks having to vacuum between all those little pleats though lol.

Best of luck Matt! It's a damn sharp car for decent money.

My '93 base sedan had that same setup -- and the power passenger recline was for crap on it as well.

The wagons are both manual recline all around -- and much preferred.

Stingroo
04-12-11, 01:10 PM
Why the hatred for blacked pillars? Looks great IMO, makes it look like there's one giant sheet of glass when the car is in motion.

greencadillacmatt
04-12-11, 09:35 PM
It sold.... :(

ga_etc
04-12-11, 11:20 PM
Damn. Sorry man.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-12-11, 11:36 PM
Damn dude, sorry to hear about that!

Playdrv4me
04-12-11, 11:39 PM
There's always the Maraud-her

greencadillacmatt
04-13-11, 08:12 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/65K-MILES-RUNS-DRIVES-GR8-LT1-350-V8-99-LOW-RESERVE-/110673065142?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item19c4a0f4b6

This is in Jacksonville, FL. Daaaaamn.

greencadillacmatt
04-13-11, 10:42 PM
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=63394135&listingRecNum=0&criteria=prMx%3D6000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%26 mkId%3D20052%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D21134%26rd%3D25 0%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D49078%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national

This is about 4.5 hours from me, but wow. Look at how clean it is. Only 80,000 miles. I might call on this one.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-14-11, 12:57 AM
That is nice! I love that shade of teal.

ga_etc
04-14-11, 02:47 AM
Clean, if you don't count the heavy wear on the driver seat and the MASSIVE cracks in the dash pad. And the one in Jax has a salvage title.

77CDV
04-14-11, 02:52 AM
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=63394135&listingRecNum=0&criteria=prMx%3D6000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%26 mkId%3D20052%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D21134%26rd%3D25 0%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice%26zc%3D49078%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national

This is about 4.5 hours from me, but wow. Look at how clean it is. Only 80,000 miles. I might call on this one.

The carriage top kills it for me. Never seen one of these with dash cracks before, either. I'd steer clear.

Aron9000
04-14-11, 05:52 AM
Yeah, those carriage tops suck. They trap water and rust out the roof, even worse than a vinyl top.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-14-11, 08:38 AM
Oh that cloth carriage top looks awful on a Brougham. It looks OK on a deVille, because it was offered that way from the factory. Any carriage top on a Brougham was an aftermarket addition.

Stingroo
04-14-11, 08:41 AM
The carriage top kills it for me. Never seen one of these with dash cracks before, either. I'd steer clear.

HAH! You're a funny guy. Florida is notorious for that. My '94 had massive cracks. My wagon has massive cracks, etc.


I accept it though. I would rather have a cracked dash than snow and rust. :yup:

77CDV
04-14-11, 07:20 PM
Weird. It just doesn't happen in SoCal, and it gets every bit as hot in the summer here as in FL.

orconn
04-14-11, 08:26 PM
Weird. It just doesn't happen in SoCal, and it gets every bit as hot in the summer here as in FL.


That does make for an interesting question. I don't remember cracked dash pads being a big problem in So Cal. And yet I imagine most cars spend their days basking in the sum, just as they do in Florida. My own cars spent their days in highrise covered parking, But I would thin most cars were parked in uncovered lots. The humidity is much lower in California but I would think that be just as bad as the higher humidity in Florida.

77CDV
04-15-11, 12:07 AM
Well, I do remember cars from the 70s and 80s having cracked dash pads after about 10 years or so. It was the unusual example that didn't. Starting in the 90s, they changed materials and now you really don't see cracked dashes on cars unless they've been totally thrashed.

greencadillacmatt
04-15-11, 12:08 AM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/2324002106.html

Calling on this after school tomorrow. :D :D :D

Playdrv4me
04-15-11, 02:10 AM
The sun thing is interesting because even in TX, which has temps every bit as hot if not hotter than FL, sun damage is somewhat more minimal than it is in FL. For example, in TX we don't have NEARLY the volume of disgusting yellow headlights that I saw even in middle FL around Tampa and Orlando. It is extremely rare that I see any of the current Escalades with any level of headlight yellowing as it appears to be a very high quality composite... yet even with that mine has light yellowing on the upper edges that face the sky.

I surmise that it comes down to more heat all year round (CA gets hot but in general has milder temps), and probably the biggest factor is Florida's location in relation to the Equator, which means the sun's rays are more intense the further South in FL you go versus California. Also in FL you have a lot of humidity and moisture (rain), so once the sun begins to break down materials, moisture causes nasties to grow inside of the microscopic cracks formed as a result which only makes the yellowing plastic even worse.

drewsdeville
04-15-11, 02:22 AM
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/2324002106.html

Calling on this after school tomorrow. :D :D :D

Lol - don't ya know? Every 10+ year old car for sale up here is an original southern car!

Jesda
04-15-11, 04:09 AM
Volvo uses glass. Problem solved.

greencadillacmatt
04-15-11, 10:28 PM
http://www.motormaxofgr.net/newandusedcars/4729/1025227/172ba862-2028-498e-bde1-663cb56ce281/Craigslist/2003-Cadillac-DeVille.aspx

WOW. That is only 45 minutes from me, too. Thoughts?

Uh-oh, just read the carfax. It's been in an accident. Still, any thoughts on these in general?

Also, WOAH! I bet insurance would kill me though.
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/ctd/2326661950.html

Aron9000
04-16-11, 04:22 AM
http://www.motormaxofgr.net/newandusedcars/4729/1025227/172ba862-2028-498e-bde1-663cb56ce281/Craigslist/2003-Cadillac-DeVille.aspx

WOW. That is only 45 minutes from me, too. Thoughts?

Uh-oh, just read the carfax. It's been in an accident. Still, any thoughts on these in general?

Also, WOAH! I bet insurance would kill me though.
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/ctd/2326661950.html

I can tell you right now as an owner of two LS1 Camaros that the Mustang will be straight up undriveable in snow with the stock wheels/tires. I'm sure it would do fine in the snow with a dedicated set of significantly narrower winter tires, and about 100lbs of weight in the trunk. Just something to think about, because that's another $500-$1000 of expense of owning that Mustang.

greencadillacmatt
04-18-11, 12:23 AM
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/ctd/2328016566.html

^Going to go test-drive this after work tomorrow. I think it's the 2LT trim, since it has the running boards, moon-roof, fog lights, and chrome rims. That means a sport suspension!

I really have to step-up my search now, the engine in my Oldsmobile let loose on the highway on Saturday. Metal flakes in the oil, YUM!

ben.gators
04-18-11, 12:42 AM
I see absolutely no correlation between your choices.....:bonkers: :hmm:

Stingroo
04-18-11, 12:45 AM
It's orange. It's also the spiritual successor to his Cavalier.


I approve.

ben.gators
04-18-11, 12:47 AM
^
When I saw that car the first thing came into my mind was you! I told myself Stingroo will love this car! :D

Stingroo
04-18-11, 12:50 AM
As it has been documented on here before, I do indeed like the HHR.

greencadillacmatt
04-18-11, 10:30 PM
^The above HHR was complete JUNK and the seller was RUDE. Everything was filthy (it was a dealership), there was some engine noise that sounded like squirrels in a blender, and it smelled like boiling wires under the hood. I do like the HHR as a vehicle, but not this one.

Tomorrow after work I'm going to go take a look at this one. It's only 5 miles or so from my house, and it's a good dealership.
http://www.midwayplainwell.com/VehicleDetails/used-2006-Chevrolet-HHR-4dr_2WD_LT-Plainwell-MI/925756683

If I can get the Mercury Grand Marquis at work for $9000 out the door, then I will buy it immediately. :)

77CDV
04-18-11, 11:57 PM
From the Crown Vic to the Chevy HHR....your scope of search is certainly broad and deep, Matt! :D

greencadillacmatt
04-19-11, 12:11 AM
^Hey, gotta exhaust all channels!