: Would I be a totally crazy, blithering, idiot if...



hazcaddy
03-08-11, 01:52 PM
I kinda need all y'all to talk me into something or out of something here.

I want to replace my 2007 STS4, which has given sterling service, and move to another car. Currently I am almost set on the M-B E550 sedan, which I would lease for 3 years and then take a look at what the XTS had by then turned out like.

But something is just bothering me at the back of my mind. I'm a Caddy guy, and looking at my dealership's lot yesterday I saw a 2010 DTS 1SD with 16,500 miles on the clock. No Nav, though, which I've gotten used to, but of course a Garmin won't break the bank.

I could buy the DTS for $10,000 less than the M-B lease would cost. Problem with a lease is - after 3 years I end up with no money and no car. But am I a total idiot for thinking about buying a car which is at the end of its run (and so is its engine)?

The Pros that I can see:
- I had a 2003 DHS and although the DTS has been substantially de-contented, I know how it handles and what it takes to drive (and park) one.
- My heart, head, and gut still belong to Cadillac.
- After 3 years I would have something to show for my money.
- Regular gas instead of Premium.
- Insane service costs for any M-B product.
- The E550 doesn't have OnStar minutes, which I use since we have a "no handheld devices" law here. Yes it has TeleAid which does all the other neat OnStar stuff, but I'd have to buy a cellphone and switch it on every time I got into the car (I don't have much need for cellphones normally and my current one doesn't have Bluetooth).

The Cons:
- The DHS had a boatload of faults in the electrical / electronics department, so I know a serious extended warranty is needed.
- I am so used to AWD now, that the M-B is attractive because it has 4MATIC; the DTS is FWD.
- What will the availability of parts and "repair knowledge" be like in 3 or 4 years?
- Will this thing be at all sellable in 3 or 4 years?

These last two are really bothering me.

So, brother and sister Caddy nuts, what say you?

Superjim
03-08-11, 02:38 PM
I kinda need all y'all to talk me into something or out of something here.

I want to replace my 2007 STS4, which has given sterling service, and move to another car. Currently I am almost set on the M-B E550 sedan, which I would lease for 3 years and then take a look at what the XTS had by then turned out like.

But something is just bothering me at the back of my mind. I'm a Caddy guy, and looking at my dealership's lot yesterday I saw a 2010 DTS 1SD with 16,500 miles on the clock. No Nav, though, which I've gotten used to, but of course a Garmin won't break the bank.

I could buy the DTS for $10,000 less than the M-B lease would cost. Problem with a lease is - after 3 years I end up with no money and no car. But am I a total idiot for thinking about buying a car which is at the end of its run (and so is its engine)?

The Pros that I can see:
- I had a 2003 DHS and although the DTS has been substantially de-contented, I know how it handles and what it takes to drive (and park) one.
- My heart, head, and gut still belong to Cadillac.
- After 3 years I would have something to show for my money.
- Regular gas instead of Premium.
- Insane service costs for any M-B product.
- The E550 doesn't have OnStar minutes, which I use since we have a "no handheld devices" law here. Yes it has TeleAid which does all the other neat OnStar stuff, but I'd have to buy a cellphone and switch it on every time I got into the car (I don't have much need for cellphones normally and my current one doesn't have Bluetooth).

The Cons:
- The DHS had a boatload of faults in the electrical / electronics department, so I know a serious extended warranty is needed.
- I am so used to AWD now, that the M-B is attractive because it has 4MATIC; the DTS is FWD.
- What will the availability of parts and "repair knowledge" be like in 3 or 4 years?
- Will this thing be at all sellable in 3 or 4 years?

These last two are really bothering me.

So, brother and sister Caddy nuts, what say you?

OK.. here goes...
I am in sorta of the same predicament myself... I have a 2006 DTS with almost 100,000 miles and will soon need a new car.
I will say this...I am biased... I am a Cadillac guy. :)
Been driving them for 35 years... :cool2:

I think the NorthStar V8 is one of the finest engines made... I love the engine.
It is smooth and quite, it gets mid 20's MPG on the highway, and when you STEP ON IT... it GOES. :)

I don't do leases because I want at least a LITTLE SOMETHING at the end of three years to show for my money.

My 2006 had a few issues, mostly electrical gremlins, maybe because it was a FIRST YEAR model.
All of the issues were fixed by my dealer.
I don't know why just the 2006 seemed to have these issues, but it did.
The later year models seem rock solid.

Consumer Reports recently rated the 2007 DTS the most reliable 3 year old luxury car on the market.
The 2010 is basically the same car, so I see no reason that it would be any different from the 2007 for reliability.

As it stands now, I will be buying a 2010 or 2011 DTS in a few months.
I will not buy one that does not have an extended warranty...just in case. :) :)
As to resale value in 3 or 4 years... I don't have a clue... but I plan on keeping the one I get for a really long time.
I am now retired and on a fixed income, so I will not have the option of trading every 3 or 4 years as I have done in the past.

As to the fuel... Cadillac "RECOMMENDS" Premium for the NorthStar V8. But it will run OK on Regular.

FWD vs All Wheel Drive... I have driven my DTS in snow and on ice numerous times.
I am sure a 4x4 would have been better, but I went anywhere I wanted to go in it.

Since the DTS/Deville has been around for so long, I see absolutely no issues with parts or service.
In fact probably much better parts and service available than the MB... especially as it ages.

And I like the looks of the DTS better... :)

Just my opinion...

Texas Jim

hueterm
03-08-11, 05:23 PM
Plus, much more room and much better looking.

Granted, I've had mine for two weeks. But I am thrilled with it.

I would imagine that your snow gets cleared pretty quick, living in Ontario. The DTS is a heavy, FWD tank -- depending on your tire selection, you should be fine unless you bottom out in really deep stuff.

HartfordGuy
03-08-11, 07:00 PM
The 2006 + newer DTS is nothing like the 2000-2005 Devilles. None of the electrical and headgasket bugs. They ride and drive better too.

You can still get a Lux II or Platinum Edition that has most of the goodies that the former DHS had.

Mercedes quality hasn't been that good the past decade either. Plus they look common now. At least the DTS is still a head turner. All MBs look alike to me. And in an affluent town they area dime a dozen. The DTS still stands out.

ltdltc
03-08-11, 07:30 PM
The 2006 + newer DTS is nothing like the 2000-2005 Devilles. None of the electrical and headgasket bugs. They ride and drive better too.

Well they still leak fluids, still have tire vibrations issues and the electrical gremlins are still there. While the car was updated its still in the same overall package.

That said these cars need to have the warranty and you have to hope for the big things to go wrong so that they are addressed. Leaking coolant from a crossover gasket @100K is not something that should be happening. Leaking valve covers shouldn't occur @70k but these are just my experiences and you'll find others that have experienced the same.

Overall I'm happy with the car just hate the suspension. I think it may be time to move to a performance sedan.

HartfordGuy
03-08-11, 08:07 PM
Well, just read thru this forum. I think those with problems with the newer DTSs are the minority.

Tire vibration issues seem to be with the Continental tires used on the 2006s. Those of us with the Michelins are much happier. And I don't think it is fair to blame a car for tire vibrations. That is due to the tire brand or other factors like wheelweights or regional issues like potholes here in New England.

The only electrical issue I know of that has been mentioned more than once is the flickering headlamps. Which seems to happen more on the 2006s and at higher mileage.

As pointed out, the 2007 DTS was rated as a best buy and also the highest quality by J.D.Powers group.

c5 rv
03-08-11, 08:37 PM
I faced a similar decision a bit over a year ago when I was nearing the end of a lease. I wanted to buy used and was deciding among DTS, Lucerne CXS, and Lincoln MKS. I ruled out the MKS because the only used ones were 09 1st year cars with a number of possible quality issues. I decided to also consider the 04-06 Lexus LS430. I bought an 05 LS430 because I thought it had the best handicap access for my wife, best expected reliability, and best future resale value. I'm currently working on a project to tighten up the suspension and handling without turning it into a buckboard.

ffrog
03-08-11, 09:23 PM
No Nav, though, which I've gotten used to, but of course a Garmin won't break the bank.

But am I a total idiot for thinking about buying a car which is at the end of its run (and so is its engine)?

What will the availability of parts and "repair knowledge" be like in 3 or 4 years?
Will this thing be at all sellable in 3 or 4 years?



End of the run should not matter. I currently still own and drive an Oldsmobile Bravada (SUV) with 125,000. This is my boon docks and snow day ride. As we all know OLDS AINíT MADE NO MORE. Canít get more end of run then that. My 06 performance is still my primary ride.

I recently experienced some problems on the OLDS (fan clutch brake) and the local Chevrolet dealer fixed this with a software download. No problem what so ever in getting parts or service.

As far as NAV goes, I like the built in NAV on my DTS, but the Garmin that I have in my SUV out performs the DTS version 10 fold except it is not built in.

Resale value may actually be better after production ends and the demand increases. This is just my uneducated guess. My OLDS value is a little above a comparable Chev Trailblazer (basically the same car).

Best of luck.

hueterm
03-08-11, 09:38 PM
That is another point. The DTS is and will be FAR superior to the LaCrosse...sorry XTS... Get one while you can. E550s aren't going anywhere, as M-B has balls and isn't cowering to the greenniks...

HartfordGuy
03-08-11, 09:45 PM
My local dealer cannot keep new DTSs in stock long. For a car with no advertising it is amazing that they sell em as fast as they can get them. People must be scrambling to grab them before they are gone.

Lev Blekher
03-09-11, 05:31 AM
Stay with Cadillac. It's a better brand, looks better, and it's American!

383 LT1 SS
03-09-11, 11:11 AM
I could buy the DTS for $10,000 less than the M-B lease would cost. Problem with a lease is - after 3 years I end up with no money and no car. But am I a total idiot for thinking about buying a car which is at the end of its run (and so is its engine)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You just answered your question. Ownership far outweighs leasing. I have a 07' performance edition that has been flawless. Keep in mind that all car forums have post that relate to problems. Check out the MB forum and you will see much of the same.

If it were me I would pocket the 10k.

383 LT1 SS

HartfordGuy
03-09-11, 01:59 PM
If you are worried about mechanical problems it is better to own a car at the end of its production than at the beginning.

GM historically discontinues a model at the end of a long run and all the bugs have been worked out. The early Northstars had big $ repairs. The last generation has the problems fixed.

And its not just with Cadillacs. You don't want the first year of any car that is all-new. So many people want the newest of anything and run right out and buy it. But a smart buyer waits a year or two and buys the improved model.

Kenwood
03-09-11, 07:12 PM
We have an MB E350 for my wife. She likes it, it has all wheel drive, great ipod interface, good handling, acceptable ride and some snazzy gadgets like keyless go, power trunk, HUGE sunroof, bluetooth etc. It has everything she wants in a car. It also gives her a little snob factor that she admits that she likes.

She hates the DTS.

I, on the other hand, prefer the DTS to the MB. I like the seats and the ride in the DTS better than the MB, and you're right about service costs on the MB. It's pretty damned expensive. The V8 in your E550 will probably be a little more. Plus, like you say, I'm a Caddy man. I had my first Caddy when I was 19. I like the swagger and attitude of a Cadillac and my Platinum has plenty of upgrades that make me feel good. I also LOVE having OnStar.

I think I'd like an S-class over the E-class, but that was out of my budget range. Might you consider an S-class? I think it's more in line with what the DTS is about.

In the end, I'd push you towards the DTS. It's what traditional luxury cars were all about. I respect that.

Keep us posted,

Kenwood

hazcaddy
03-10-11, 06:10 PM
Well, first of all thanks to all of you who replied, and gave me a sense of perspective as to where one stands with regard to end-of-line cars. As one dealer told me today, they still have no problems getting parts for the pre-2000 series of Devilles...

Based on getting my fears about the Caddy allayed, and some of them about the Mercedes confirmed, I'm going to go with a 2010 DTS.

Now I have another problem: saw two today that both had good points. Both are ex-US, imported here, and both have good points and questions:

#1 is a car that was put in service late in 2009, was at a Dallas dealership but came to Canada this January with 180 miles on the odometer, now has 2000 miles being driven by the Used car Manager. It is a Platinum + ACC edition. It is silver, which I quite like.

#2 is an ex-Hertz daily rental with 12,000 miles, Lux III, but would end up costing me $8,250 less than #1, taking into account the varying trade-in values they gave me. It is Diamond White, which I currently have on my STS and love.

So of course the questions are things like: what happened in Dallas for a year, how badly do Caddy rentals get abused (I've rented lots of them and never beaten one up), is ACC more of a pain than a pleasure, and say, I really couldn't tell the difference between with MRC and without - why not? Other than the MRC and ACC, both cars are the same, and the difference is just the mileage (and related price difference).

You have kept me on the path of righteousness - it's just got some twists and turns in it that I now have to negotiate...

Lev Blekher
03-10-11, 07:50 PM
Go with the best one you can afford, which in this case seems to be the one from Texas. You'll have more features. To alleviate your worries about the car, call Cadillac customer support and ask them to give you a run of the entire service history. Then call a seperate dealership that has nothing to do with the car, and ask them the same thing to confirm. I did it and it works because any dealer will have it through their online system. Also use carfax and if there is an accident, call the town for a police report to know what kind of damage there was.

What is ACC?

Superjim
03-10-11, 08:40 PM
Well, first of all thanks to all of you who replied, and gave me a sense of perspective as to where one stands with regard to end-of-line cars. As one dealer told me today, they still have no problems getting parts for the pre-2000 series of Devilles...

Based on getting my fears about the Caddy allayed, and some of them about the Mercedes confirmed, I'm going to go with a 2010 DTS.

Now I have another problem: saw two today that both had good points. Both are ex-US, imported here, and both have good points and questions:

#1 is a car that was put in service late in 2009, was at a Dallas dealership but came to Canada this January with 180 miles on the odometer, now has 2000 miles being driven by the Used car Manager. It is a Platinum + ACC edition. It is silver, which I quite like.

#2 is an ex-Hertz daily rental with 12,000 miles, Lux III, but would end up costing me $8,250 less than #1, taking into account the varying trade-in values they gave me. It is Diamond White, which I currently have on my STS and love.

So of course the questions are things like: what happened in Dallas for a year, how badly do Caddy rentals get abused (I've rented lots of them and never beaten one up), is ACC more of a pain than a pleasure, and say, I really couldn't tell the difference between with MRC and without - why not? Other than the MRC and ACC, both cars are the same, and the difference is just the mileage (and related price difference).

You have kept me on the path of righteousness - it's just got some twists and turns in it that I now have to negotiate...

On the question of what happened for a year in Dallas...That's hard to say.
I have also rented several DTS's for I have never abused one.

On the question about the MRC...In normal driving, it is hard to tell the difference.
It works so well, you never really "NOTICE" it.
It just does it's thing without being intrusive at all.
The main thing I have noticed, the MRC cars have JUST a LITTLE BIT of a firmer ride.
But if you ever get used to one WITH IT... you would notice one WITHOUT IT. :) :)

But maybe not the other way around...

Since I am used to MRC.. when I am driving one WITHOUT IT.. I can tell the difference easily.
The difference really manifests itself in spirited driving.
The MRC car will have better road manners, more cornering ability and better overall driver control.
At high speed, the car will be more SOLID on the road, a little bit smoother and will not have as much body movement as non MRC ones do.

This is not to say that the other ones are bad.. not by any means.

I have rented several DTS's and had several furnished to me when my car was in for service... all "WITHOUT" MRC of course. :)
They performed admirably and I have no complaints about them except that they just don't HANDLE as well and are not quite as SOLID on the highway as the MRC equipped cars are.

I will be in the market for either a 2010 or 2011 in a few months, and I will not settle for anything less than a Platinum with MRC.
But... that's just my personal opinion, from putting 140,000 miles on the two MRC equipped 2006 DTS's that I have owned and the way I drive.

One drawback to the MRC cars are the low profile tires.
The ones that come on mine were very noisy after they had a little bit of wear on them and got progressively MORE noisy as they wore.
I finally replaced the tires with quieter ones.

Most people seem to prefer the NON MRC cars...
I reckon I am just different. :) :)... and Yes, I have been told that before. :)

Texas Jim

Kenwood
03-11-11, 03:01 PM
By ACC, do you mean the adaptive cruise control? If so, I like mine a lot. You still have very easy control over it via the buttons on the steering wheel if you start to run into heavy traffic or if you need to modulate the distance better. Plus, the Platinum has some additional nice touches that make it a little more special such as the lighter wood with inlays, lighted door sills, and Alcantara headliner. I know that these are just cosmetic details, but I like them a lot. I'd recommend a Platinum to everybody. I wouldn't worry about the Platinum with the very low miles. The sticker price on them is around $60K and that is enough to scare many people off. Plus, silver is a conservative color. People willing to shell out $60K on a DTS usually want something a little more flashy or daring such as the Crystal Red or the Diamond White. So I think it probably sat in a showroom most of that time.

As for the Hertz car, I just don't like retired rentals. We're having a discussion on this already in the forum. However, 12,000 miles doesn't seem *too* bad. The swinging factor for me would be a Cadillac Certified Pre-Owned warranty. Are either of these being sold through a Caddy dealership? If not, I'd have a mechanic thoroughly inspect either of them, but would be more inclined to buy the Platinum. If you can shop some more, I'd try to find a Premium Luxury (aka Luxury III in older years) or a Platinum that has a Cadillac Certified warranty.

If you're stuck on these two exclusively, I'd negotiate a little harder and get the Platinum.

hueterm
03-11-11, 08:09 PM
Other than the MRC and ACC, both cars are the same...


If one is a Platinum and one is not, then they're definitely not the same.

The Platinum interior is far and away nicer...plus getting all of the performance aspects. Definitely worth the $8000...

hazcaddy
03-12-11, 05:18 PM
The deed is done - I pick up the Diamond White Lux III on Wednesday.

I appreciate everyone's input and comments, thank you. Took my (shorter than me) wife today to see both cars, she had some real issues with the Platinum seats (driver and passenger) cutting into the back of her legs, and couldn't get her arms comfortable on the door and center armrests. Plus wasn't thrilled by the interior color. And as we all know, "a happy wife is a happy life" so that weighed large in my final decision. I must admit I found the Lux III more comfortable too, and found the Platinum surprisingly noisy when you pushed the Loud pedal to the floor (but it did get up a little quicker).

So this will become my Home forum as of next week - started out on the Deville 2000-2005 forum, migrated to the STS forum, and now I am promoted to this one. Awesome.

Superjim
03-12-11, 05:55 PM
The deed is done - I pick up the Diamond White Lux III on Wednesday.

I appreciate everyone's input and comments, thank you. Took my (shorter than me) wife today to see both cars, she had some real issues with the Platinum seats (driver and passenger) cutting into the back of her legs, and couldn't get her arms comfortable on the door and center armrests. Plus wasn't thrilled by the interior color. And as we all know, "a happy wife is a happy life" so that weighed large in my final decision. I must admit I found the Lux III more comfortable too, and found the Platinum surprisingly noisy when you pushed the Loud pedal to the floor (but it did get up a little quicker).

So this will become my Home forum as of next week - started out on the Deville 2000-2005 forum, migrated to the STS forum, and now I am promoted to this one. Awesome.

Congratulations and Welcome aboard... :cool2:

Glad you got the one you liked.
It was good that you had 2 to choose from.

Jim

Rusty058
03-12-11, 08:16 PM
Welcome! I would hate to own a DTS but have a cranky wife. I like the "promoted" thing you mentioned!!

Kenwood
03-12-11, 09:16 PM
Congratulations on your new DTS and welcome to the DTS forum. We have a great bunch of guys here (and a few gals too). Pull up a comfy chair, pour yourself a nice scotch and have a look around. Be sure to post some pictures for us when you get a chance. What color was the interior of the Platinum?

Glad you chose what was most comfortable for you. Did you trade the STS or are you keeping it? The DTS Lux III has lots of toys on it to coddle you and cater to you. You should be quite happy for a while.

Cheers,
Kenwood

Jesda
03-12-11, 09:18 PM
Congrats!!

c5 rv
03-12-11, 10:08 PM
Congrats on the Lux III. Does it have the "Bench" seat with large fold-down center armrest or bucket seats with the center console?

Playdrv4me
03-13-11, 04:32 AM
Interesting you both found the Platinum uncomfortable... that interior would just about seal the deal for me no matter what, but I don't have to listen to someone else constantly!

Congrats on the new ride!

Lev Blekher
03-14-11, 07:03 AM
Put some pics up after it's all shined up!

mike5514
03-14-11, 01:23 PM
Just got back from a 1300 mile trip and my 06 dts base seats are a big plus for the wife and I. If I ever trade for another car I will have to take the seats with me.:annoyed: Mike

Superjim
03-14-11, 02:58 PM
Just got back from a 1300 mile trip and my 06 dts base seats are a big plus for the wife and I. If I ever trade for another car I will have to take the seats with me.:annoyed: Mike

The seats are MAIN REASON I am not really looking at other cars to replace my DTS in a few months...

I have knee and hip problems and the only car I have found that don't HURT MR after a long day of driving is the DTS.

Texas Jim

hazcaddy
03-14-11, 05:04 PM
Yes I agree, the seats in the Lux III that I chose in the end are like the ones in my old DHS, comfortable as heck. I had a client 250 miles away and could leave the house, drive 4 hours, have a meeting, and drive 4 hours back and feel as if I'd spent the day reading a book at the library.

To answer a couple of the questions above: I'm trading the STS as we already have a sporty car in the family (SLK 350); the car has the bucket seats with center console; the front edge of the seats in the Platinum dug into the back of her legs and when driving she couldn't rest her arm on the center arm-rest, I couldn't rest my arm on the door armrest as a passenger; and the color of that interior was a very yellowy beige with dark brown leather trim - Mrs Haz hates yellow.

Once I have the vehicle home and it is a nice Spring day, I'll post some pix in the "Show us your ride" thread. Wow, this has been an interesting couple of weeks, thinking I was getting an E550 and ending up with a DTS. It almost feels as if I've come home where I belong...

HartfordGuy
03-15-11, 06:59 AM
Welcome "Home". :)

383 LT1 SS
03-15-11, 12:22 PM
Congrats on your DTS purchase. You will find the DTS to be a great road car. I really like mine.

Enjoy-

383 LT1 SS

caddienewbie1
04-10-11, 01:51 AM
Hello all,
I am new to cadillac as a whole ( only owned an 03' Escalade bought new, electrical issues.) Which made me dissapointed about Caddie. I have owned multiple cars/suvs since then. Currently I own an 09' Bmw 528i x drive (AWD) and I like it but dont use it as much as I had hoped to. I am currently considering a 2010 cadillac dts with a little over 9 k on the odometer. I never took the beemer in the snow, so I didnt get to test it out. But, I am worried that if I decide on the dts I will be screwed in the snow. I really like thew dts, but am also worried about it being like my 03 escalade :crying2:. Can any one help me out with this? Thanks in advance

hazcaddy
04-10-11, 11:27 AM
Admittedly I bought my DTS at the end of the "snow" season, we have had a few snowfalls since I got it and I found that it did okay. The weight of the N* over the driving and steering wheels has a lot to do with it, I guess. My '03 DHS which I had for four winters did fine with regular tires, but just to be on the safe side I'll get a set of snow tires for next winter. (And no, they won't be on the black steel rims that so many folks ruin the look of their car with for 6 months each year).

Having driven the STS4 between the two FWD Caddies, that was amazing in snow (again with the right set of rubber); but going back to the DTS I feel confident I'm not likely to get stuck unless I take it somewhere really dumb.

Lev Blekher
04-11-11, 02:13 AM
I have stupidly driven mine in the major snowstorm we had that shut down the east coast this past winter. (I work at a hospital and requested a van for subsequent storms). Anyway, even with the original tires which are now almost dry rotted, the car stopped in a short and straight line from 30 mph, never got stuck, and accelerated without issue in snow. In parking lots I was able to see how StabiliTrak controlled wheel speed regardless of engine speed, and it was obvious that the traction control system really aided the stability. It felt very secure to my other ride (at the time I had no problem driving myself in storms because I worked in a rural area, unlike my current area which scared the hell out of me with its crazy drivers even during a snowstorm).

I have had a tire pressure sensor go bad in the car since owning it, and according to the dealer history minor electrical things seemed to have been done before I go it.