: Disappointed New (used) Cadillac owner



sunchips
03-03-11, 08:42 PM
Sigh...I just got a 2000 Cadillac SLS about a week ago. I drove it about 6 miles on the e-way and the temp light started moving to the right...the display read "engine coolant temp hot idle engine a/c off" or something to that extent. I've taken it to several people and they say they can't find anything else wrong. I do not know what else to do now. I love how it drives but right now I can't even drive across town. Does anyone know what could make this temp go up and stay up like that? One of the mechanics even told me that it could be an airflow problem and if that's the case then I'm wasting my time? Awww man, I had thermostat replaced and had a flush & fill to no avail...kinda bummed right now because I love the car to pieces.

creeker
03-03-11, 08:48 PM
Sigh...I just got a 2000 Cadillac SLS about a week ago. I drove it about 6 miles on the e-way and the temp light started moving to the right...the display read "engine coolant temp hot idle engine a/c off" or something to that extent. I've taken it to several people and they say they can't find anything else wrong. I do not know what else to do now. I love how it drives but right now I can't even drive across town. Does anyone know what could make this temp go up and stay up like that? One of the mechanics even told me that it could be an airflow problem and if that's the case then I'm wasting my time? Awww man, I had thermostat replaced and had a flush & fill to no avail...kinda bummed right now because I love the car to pieces.

Sounds like the dreaded much discussed blown head gaskets, did you get the car for a great price?,
whats the mileage?.

Playdrv4me
03-03-11, 09:05 PM
I'm surprised THAT many people you took it to have no familiarity with the obvious problem with that motor. Time to get a block test.

Jesda
03-03-11, 09:17 PM
Where are you located? There might be Northstar experts you can tow the car to.


There's a chance its something else, but I'd bet my life on it being head gaskets.

sunchips
03-03-11, 09:22 PM
I think I got a good deal...I paid 3 thousand and some change and it has 182,000 miles on it. I expected to get some work done but frustrated that I can't get good help around here...like wow. Thanks for reply I will consider having those checked.

sunchips
03-03-11, 09:24 PM
I'm surprised THAT many people you took it to have no familiarity with the obvious problem with that motor. Time to get a block test.

Yeah it's hard to find good help these days. I will consider this too thanks for dropping a reply :)

sunchips
03-03-11, 09:26 PM
Where are you located? There might be Northstar experts you can tow the car to.


There's a chance its something else, but I'd bet my life on it being head gaskets.

I'm in Mid-Michigan and you would think this area would have some experts around here considering we were "vehicle city" near Detroit who is the "motor city" smh...

Jesda
03-03-11, 09:39 PM
Yeah there's at least a few good Northstar shops there. Check the Northstar engine area of the forum for more info.

First, get the block tested to see if it HG is really bad.

ThumperPup
03-03-11, 09:42 PM
gosh i khnow in Detroit every other mechanic you go to would know about these northstar issues on this engine


maybe this might be best to move it to the Northstar Technical Section of the forum i know it might get more atention there

how ever it does sound like the HG's are gone but there is that percentage that its something els

ThumperPup
03-03-11, 09:43 PM
sounds almost like the shop you took it to did the t-stat and flushed the coolant system perhaps they knew the issue and figured they could make a few bucks of you at first before telling yout hat you have 4 grand worth of work to be done that way they don't loose your business i mean money they could robb you for before you say no to the other work

Ranger
03-03-11, 10:02 PM
Someone saw you coming and bent you over. Did you buy from a dealer or private (not that it matters all that much)? If you got it from a dealer and it was VERY recent, you might go back and raise holy hell, but used car sales are "As Is".

ThumperPup
03-03-11, 10:18 PM
not sure how other states are but i know in Ohio
you can have some auction to be taken and have a leg to stand on in court if it went that far if
they actualy tried to hide the problem from you in ohio thats not leagle and you can sew and win
not sure how other states are but i know for a fact in ohio
a dealer and a private party can not deliberately hide the issue with the vehicle being sold

they don;'t have to tell you about it but if leading you on by saying it is perfect nothing is wrong i with it or if you ask specific question before purchase they can try to avoid those answer but if they plane out come and say no then you have a leg to stand on

also there comes down to the point you have to prove they knew it was bad

but no matter what state if it where me id be going to small claims court sewing them
good chance you may win something

Rolex
03-03-11, 10:28 PM
Someone saw you coming and bent you over. Did you buy from a dealer or private (not that it matters all that much)? If you got it from a dealer and it was VERY recent, you might go back and raise holy hell, but used car sales are "As Is".


Sadly :yeah:

Best of luck to you my friend. Those HG repairs can be pricey. :hide:

hueterm
03-03-11, 10:30 PM
I think I got a good deal...I paid 3 thousand and some change and it has 182,000 miles on it.


Um...you got screwed...even w/o blown HGs...

billc83
03-03-11, 10:49 PM
Greetings and salutations.

The good news: Sunchips are my favorite chips.

The bad news: Sounds like you got a bum deal, which is too bad and a horrible way to get associated with the Cadillac brand. Whatever you do - DON'T let the engine overheat. Blown head gaskets can be pricey, but are salvageable.

All the best in your situation and hope it pans out for you.

ted tcb
03-03-11, 10:59 PM
Sadly, someone without ethics sold you a car rather than repair it.
Your purchase price of $3k is about the same amount it will cost you to timesert or stud
your block.
The car was worth $1k tops with a HG issue and high mileage.

ben.gators
03-03-11, 11:03 PM
I'm surprised THAT many people you took it to have no familiarity with the obvious problem with that motor. Time to get a block test.

Well, the truth is the HG problem is not that much common that we think! And that is why 90% of mechanics out there have never ever heard about it... We are in a forum and people come here to discuss their problems. That is why we hear a lot about it in this forum, but there are millions of flawless N* engines pushing these luxury car forward!

About the thread, yes, 3000$ for a 180k miles SLS is too much even if the HGs are good!

Jesda
03-03-11, 11:05 PM
there's a guy in detroit who will do the job for something like $1500. Check Craigslist

Destroyer
03-03-11, 11:09 PM
I think I got a good deal...I paid 3 thousand and some change and it has 182,000 miles on it. Nope! Cheek spreaders should have been a red flag! :lildevil: On a serious note, you should have come to this forum BEFORE buying it. It is a good car with a very troublesome motor. :yup:

Destroyer
03-03-11, 11:12 PM
Well, the truth is the HG problem is not that much common that we think! And that is why 90% of mechanics out there have never ever heard about it... We are in a forum and people come here to discuss their problems. That is why we hear a lot about it in this forum, but there are millions of flawless N* engines pushing these luxury car forward!

What planet are you from again? I attend many car auctions. Believe me, EVERYONE at said auctions is well aware of the HG issue and avoid anything with a N* unless it goes stupid cheap! :bigroll:

drewsdeville
03-03-11, 11:31 PM
Well, the truth is the HG problem is not that much common that we think! And that is why 90% of mechanics out there have never ever heard about it... We are in a forum and people come here to discuss their problems. That is why we hear a lot about it in this forum, but there are millions of flawless N* engines pushing these luxury car forward!


So every other auto forum has the same amount of threads containing positive HG diagnosis? Hardly.

I'm a member of MANY automotive forums. No where else have I seen so many head gasket threads. I don't think I've seen one on crownvic.net in over a year. We can't go a couple of days without hearing about a new one here.

Using that example, you are very misguided if you can honestly tell me you think there are the same number of head gasket problems on Ford modular engines (such as the 4.6) and the Cadillac 4.6 . There are far, FAR more Ford 4.6's on the road, and I would be willing to bet that total HG failures tally up well under Cadillacs.

ThumperPup
03-03-11, 11:35 PM
there's a guy in detroit who will do the job for something like $1500. Check Craigslist

i think that was the guy i posted a link to a week or so back found his had he was doing them for 1350

Playdrv4me
03-03-11, 11:37 PM
So every other auto forum has the same amount of threads containing positive HG diagnosis? Hardly.

I'm a member of MANY automotive forums. No where else have I seen so many head gasket threads. I don't think I've seen one on crownvic.net in over a year.

Yea I've brought that up before. I *do* agree that people come to manufacturer specific car forums to complain, but the number of HG threads here is absolutely staggering... Waaay beyond some statistical anomale.

ThumperPup
03-03-11, 11:39 PM
Well, the truth is the HG problem is not that much common that we think! And that is why 90% of mechanics out there have never ever heard about it... We are in a forum and people come here to discuss their problems. That is why we hear a lot about it in this forum, but there are millions of flawless N* engines pushing these luxury car forward!

About the thread, yes, 3000$ for a 180k miles SLS is too much even if the HGs are good!

the hg problem is more commonly heard of then you say it to be
how come if you call a engine shop not a mechanic but a engine shop up about 7 of 10 when they find out its a N will say they are throw away engines
the other 2 out of ten will say they will do it but wont want to give a warranty cause they don't know how to do the repair
1 out of the other 2 left over will lough at you
and then 1 in 10 will actually do the work because it does not scare them and they know how to do it properly ?

come on its more common then you try to get it to lead on to be

ThumperPup
03-03-11, 11:43 PM
Using that example, you are very misguided if you can honestly tell me you think there are the same number of head gasket problems on Ford modular engines (such as the 4.6) and the Cadillac 4.6 . There are far, FAR more Ford 4.6's on the road, and I would be willing to bet that total HG failures tally up well under Cadillacs.

agreed
i have had 3 Lincolns with 4.6 DOHC
and 1 ford with a 4.6 SOHC not one problem having to do with the HG's in any of them
only 1 ever did have a problem and that was at 115k when the engine lost compresion in 2 of the Cylenders

1 of them has made it to well over 300k and i know the person who owns that 98 Mark Viii and hes still driving it i bought it new with 20 miles on it and hes got it up around 310k now i think

the other one was totaled out at 130k

and the other one was sold at 80k

RippyPartsDept
03-03-11, 11:47 PM
nobody in their right mind would get rid of a N* powered car in good condition... that's why your auctions are full of cars w/ blown HGs

in reality the N* HG problem is somewhere between where ben and destroyer make it out to be - and we'll never really know exactly what the failure rate is... and does it really even matter?

Playdrv4me
03-03-11, 11:52 PM
nobody in their right mind would get rid of a N* powered car in good condition...

Huh? People get rid of cars for all KINDS of stupid reasons... Off lease cars, New car trade-in, tired of the car, OTHER problems they've had enough of. Since when are all the cars at auction just the "bad" ones? Unless I'm misreading your post.

ThumperPup
03-04-11, 12:07 AM
i know that mine was at a auction before i bought it and i put around wow i think 60k on it between the time i bought it and the time the HG's went so not sure id agree with the statement about all n's at auctions have hg issues

ThumperPup
03-04-11, 12:11 AM
Just found this on CL
was looking for the Rebuilder in Detroit for this sunchip fella and i found something better
what the heck

is this for real if it is what the heck is he doing to be able to sell it so cheap
hes advetising a N rebuilt with stud kit for 900 plus your old engine core or 1400 without the old engine

what the heck can this be real

yo jake do you know this guy ?

http://toledo.craigslist.org/pts/2244473735.html

ThumperPup
03-04-11, 12:12 AM
here is the one who does the HG's for 1350

but if the one above this is for real id go for it in a heart beat

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ctd/2213343235.html

Playdrv4me
03-04-11, 12:13 AM
Just found this on CL
was looking for the Rebuilder in Detroit for this sunchip fella and i found something better
what the heck

is this for real if it is what the heck is he doing to be able to sell it so cheap
hes advetising a N rebuilt with stud kit for 900 plus your old engine core or 1400 without the old engine

what the heck can this be real

yo jake do you know this guy ?

http://toledo.craigslist.org/pts/2244473735.html

That sounds like a GREAT deal, and the guy seems to be well spoken and knows what he's talking about. Of course, removal and replacement of the engine is where the majority of the cost comes in anyway.

Aron9000
03-04-11, 12:13 AM
All I will say is that there is a reason that junkyards are full of Northstar powered Cadillacs. The local pull-a-part has like 10 or 15 of them, yet you can't find a damn GM full size truck, Ford full size truck, or any Toyota truck in that yard or any other yard around where I live.

ThumperPup
03-04-11, 12:47 AM
That sounds like a GREAT deal, and the guy seems to be well spoken and knows what he's talking about. Of course, removal and replacement of the engine is where the majority of the cost comes in anyway.

yeah but if he only asking for cores for the 500 dollar core charge then hes paying what like 600 for the studs and gaskets any cleaning stuff
so hes got what like 650 into the engines probably ? i may be off on that price
so then hes only charging 250 dollars for the time it took to do the work ?

i just can't belive hes doing that at that price

Playdrv4me
03-04-11, 01:05 AM
yeah but if he only asking for cores for the 500 dollar core charge then hes paying what like 600 for the studs and gaskets any cleaning stuff
so hes got what like 650 into the engines probably ? i may be off on that price
so then hes only charging 250 dollars for the time it took to do the work ?

i just can't belive hes doing that at that price

Again, the majority of the cost comes in disconnecting everything, raising the chassis and removing the engine from the cradle, then doing it ALL over again when you're ready to put the motor back in. Not to mention recharging the A/C and other miscellaneous work that most (except for Jake) have to perform. Essentially this guy is only charging 250 for labor (or whatever it is) because he's getting around all the hard work by having the engines provided to him.

Once a N* is out of its hole, it's no more difficult to tear apart than any other headgasket job... with the difference being that you have to do the stud-work.

ThumperPup
03-04-11, 01:16 AM
deleted

RippyPartsDept
03-04-11, 09:23 AM
Huh? People get rid of cars for all KINDS of stupid reasons... Off lease cars, New car trade-in, tired of the car, OTHER problems they've had enough of. Since when are all the cars at auction just the "bad" ones? Unless I'm misreading your post.

i think i misread/misunderstood what destroyer said and in turn posted a confusing reply... that's what i get for posting when i'm tired i guess

no, not all cars at auction have problems

Again, the majority of the cost comes in disconnecting everything, raising the chassis and removing the engine from the cradle, then doing it ALL over again when you're ready to put the motor back in. Not to mention recharging the A/C and other miscellaneous work that most (except for Jake) have to perform. Essentially this guy is only charging 250 for labor (or whatever it is) because he's getting around all the hard work by having the engines provided to him.

Once a N* is out of its hole, it's no more difficult to tear apart than any other headgasket job... with the difference being that you have to do the stud-work.

:yeah: i was going to say that

drewsdeville
03-04-11, 09:50 AM
Once a N* is out of its hole, it's no more difficult to tear apart than any other headgasket job

To a point, but there are still many easier. Don't forget, it's a DOHC, so removing the heads involves disassembling the cams and chains, which will have to be retimed on assembly. Quite involved compared to a pushrod engine like, say, the regular Chev small block where the cam nor the timing chain ever get touched while removing the heads.

But I agree, the biggest obstacle is getting it out.

thebigjimsho
03-04-11, 12:59 PM
Someone saw you coming and bent you over. Did you buy from a dealer or private (not that it matters all that much)? If you got it from a dealer and it was VERY recent, you might go back and raise holy hell, but used car sales are "As Is".
In general, yes. However, if fraud can be implied, which would still be tough to do, recourse can be pursued. 6 miles from purchase screams a bad seller and I would try like hell to get that money back, even on an As-Is sale. However, I also would not have dropped $3G into an 11 year old, 182000 mile Cadillac, either...

And I would've given it an extensive test drive and mechanical check...

Bro-Ham
03-04-11, 01:44 PM
I hope everything works out - somehow.

The best money you can spend is on an authorized Cadillac dealership pre-purchase inspection. Might be a hundred bucks or so, but at least you'll know exactly what you're buying. Hindsight is 20/20, I know I've purchased a few cars that I wish I had done more homework and trusted the seller less, but, that's life.

Yesterday I picked up a 2001 Seville SLS with 99k miles for $3,100, it's nice, but the "service engine soon" light came on during an extended test drive. I have yet to check the codes but talked to the Cadillac dealership who previously serviced the car and they said it was super well maintained so I decided to take my chances...watch now as I check the diagnostic codes and they indicate the engine is in full Chernobyl melt down! :) All part of the fun...I guess. :)

Stingroo
03-04-11, 01:49 PM
Guys, notice that it says $900 for an ENGINE. It says nothing about install/removal....

Jesda
03-04-11, 01:59 PM
There's shops in the Detroit metro area who do the job with labor for under $1500, plus studs if you want them.

Playdrv4me
03-04-11, 05:52 PM
...it says nothing about install/removal

Yea, I mentioned that...


Again, the majority of the cost comes in disconnecting everything, raising the chassis and removing the engine from the cradle, then doing it ALL over again when you're ready to put the motor back in. Not to mention recharging the A/C and other miscellaneous work that most (except for Jake) have to perform. Essentially this guy is only charging 250 for labor (or whatever it is) because he's getting around all the hard work by having the engines provided to him.

ThumperPup
03-04-11, 06:54 PM
In general, yes. However, if fraud can be implied, which would still be tough to do, recourse can be pursued. 6 miles from purchase screams a bad seller and I would try like hell to get that money back, even on an As-Is sale. However, I also would not have dropped $3G into an 11 year old, 182000 mile Cadillac, either...

And I would've given it an extensive test drive and mechanical check...

so would you drop 5g''s on a cadillac with 171k on it with a rebuilt Engine iwth studs and a rebuil tranmisson mostly complete front end overhual except for the shocks and struts new fuel pump and more work not mentioned

i know if there was proofe it was doen i would probably pay 5k for that before i would pay 5k for the same year car with under 100k

ThumperPup
03-04-11, 06:59 PM
i did see this
and then i also relized what jake charges i think 1000 or 1100 or something for someone to ship him there engine for them to stud it but its another 1100 if he has to take it out and put it in
so when i think about it its a fiar price
they are paying 900 if they have the old engine as core wich i think is kind of also not fair for jake because that under cuts his price so ppl may go to this guy more then jake and that is not fair at all
how ever if someone does not have an engine for core then hes selling the entire engine with studs for 1400 wich is like half the price jake sells them for i think and that is really under cutting jakes price
not sure if jake is aware of what this guy is doing if its just a one time thing of if he plans to do this continuously
but i think jake might want to look into the next shipment of sstuds going to this customer and say look your taking business away from me and undercutting my prices by alot i think he should have a clause in his prices for business or rebuilders for this reason


but i guess then it would not be right to do that at the same time cause you can do what you want with what you want
but i wonder if jake is even aware this is what the guy is doing


Guys, notice that it says $900 for an ENGINE. It says nothing about install/removal....

DouglasJRizzo
03-05-11, 08:39 AM
Head gaskets are a pain, but not an impossible problem.

Destroyer
03-05-11, 10:13 PM
Head gaskets are a pain, but not an impossible problem.
Nothing is impossible but some things just aren't worthwhile or smart. :cool2:

Destroyer
03-05-11, 10:21 PM
nobody in their right mind would get rid of a N* powered car in good condition... that's why your auctions are full of cars w/ blown HGs

in reality the N* HG problem is somewhere between where ben and destroyer make it out to be - and we'll never really know exactly what the failure rate is... and does it really even matter?
Eh, I'm with you in the sense that keeping a good running N* car is a good idea because the resale value is absolute shit and you might as well keep it till it dies. They are nice drivers when they aren't giving fits. Still, people give up perfectly good cars for various reasons. One reason people buy new and trade in cars is the perceived notion that once a car is "x" years old or has "x" amount of miles it will start giving problems. Others simply want a new car under warranty. Either way, not all N* cars at auctions are immediate garbage, some still have some time but they are fetching little more than scrap value because dealers have been bit by the H/G issue too many times.:nono:

Playdrv4me
03-05-11, 11:48 PM
Eh, I'm with you in the sense that keeping a good running N* car is a good idea because the resale value is absolute shit and you might as well keep it till it dies. They are nice drivers when they aren't giving fits. Still, people give up perfectly good cars for various reasons. One reason people buy new and trade in cars is the perceived notion that once a car is "x" years old or has "x" amount of miles it will start giving problems. Others simply want a new car under warranty. Either way, not all N* cars at auctions are immediate garbage, some still have some time but they are fetching little more than scrap value because dealers have been bit by the H/G issue too many times.:nono:

On the flip side, I've noticed a pocket of dealers in FL and elsewhere that now turn this to their advantage... They buy the cars for pennies at the auction, have "a guy" that they've worked out an HG arrangement with, turn around and sell them as permanently "fixed" for ridiculous money. Weird market.

Jesda
03-05-11, 11:56 PM
Nothing is impossible but some things just aren't worthwhile or smart. :cool2:

This was definitely true a few years ago. Now, you take it to a specialist and get it done for good. If you know what you get into before you get into it, you're okay. If you don't do your research, you'll get screwed and wind up with a $3500 bill at the dealer. I mean really, you've had dozens of cars. You really ought to be putting all that money into a 401k if you wanted to do things that were worthwhile or smart. A hobby is a hobby, even an expensive one -- none of them are wise.

Resale value is dropping like a rock due to the cost and complexity. The market works itself out.

ThumperPup
03-06-11, 10:17 AM
but they are fetching little more than scrap value because dealers have been bit by the H/G issue too many times.:nono:

at the dealers i have passed in Cleveland that have N-s they are not passing scrap value they think they have the shizzznitt
because every boy on the block wants a cadillac
i see dealers sell these things all the time for prices out ragouse
just the other day i saw a 2000 seville that a dealer thinks they can get 8999 for and 10999 if they do the buy hear pay hear price
not that they will get that

i see 97s for like 5k and 2003s selling for 13k

and forbid someone gets something with a special option like GPS in it then they think they can jump the price up to another 1000 sunroof oh there you get to add antoher 500 at the dealerships around here

Destroyer
03-06-11, 10:17 AM
On the flip side, I've noticed a pocket of dealers in FL and elsewhere that now turn this to their advantage... They buy the cars for pennies at the auction, have "a guy" that they've worked out an HG arrangement with, turn around and sell them as permanently "fixed" for ridiculous money. Weird market.
I haven't noticed that but I haven't been shopping for one either. If they are getting good money for the cars in "fixed" condition that would mean (IMO) that the H/G issue is directly linked to the low resale value and fast rate of depreciation on these cars. I wish GM had made all the N* cars with LSx motors and rwd. :(

Playdrv4me
03-06-11, 04:00 PM
I haven't noticed that but I haven't been shopping for one either. If they are getting good money for the cars in "fixed" condition that would mean (IMO) that the H/G issue is directly linked to the low resale value and fast rate of depreciation on these cars. I wish GM had made all the N* cars with LSx motors and rwd. :(

While we tend to agree to a point about the N*, I disagree about the LSx comment. Those motors are just not smooth enough for luxury car duty in non performance/non truck applications. The bottom line is, had the N* been engineered properly to begin with, it would have been no different (and in some ways better) than the Ford 4.6 modular DOHC which did beautiful duty in the Continental and Mark VIII. Smooth as a N*, without exploding somewhere down the line.

In other words, I love the N*, just hate the stupid flaws.

Playdrv4me
03-06-11, 04:06 PM
Speaking of fixed HGs, I came across this when searching for one of those ads... http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/cto/2245708332.html

Not a bad deal at all.

Destroyer
03-06-11, 09:28 PM
While we tend to agree to a point about the N*, I disagree about the LSx comment. Those motors are just not smooth enough for luxury car duty in non performance/non truck applications.
The LT1 was smooth enough to be in a flagship Cadillac so why wouldn't an LS1 be smooth enough to be in a Deville, STS or Eldorado? We look upon Chevy powered Cadillacs as reliable and generally good cars, GM should have kept on going with that. If all FWD N* cars were RWD and powered by LSx motors they would have been much more popular, resale would have been much higher and owners would have been MUCH happier. I'm fairly confident any owner would rather deal with slightly more harshness than utter unreliability. :duck::cool2:

Playdrv4me
03-06-11, 09:33 PM
The LT1 was smooth enough to be in a flagship Cadillac so why wouldn't an LS1 be smooth enough to be in a Deville, STS or Eldorado? We look upon Chevy powered Cadillacs as reliable and generally good cars, GM should have kept on going with that. If all FWD N* cars were RWD and powered by LSx motors they would have been much more popular, resale would have been much higher and owners would have been MUCH happier. I'm fairly confident any owner would rather deal with slightly more harshness than utter unreliability. :duck::cool2:

The RWD N* Cadillacs seem to be doing just fine resale *and* reliability-wise, even with FI. Hmm...

ThumperPup
03-06-11, 09:34 PM
Speaking of fixed HGs, I came across this when searching for one of those ads... http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/cto/2245708332.html

Not a bad deal at all.

that posting has been deleted what was it >?

Playdrv4me
03-06-11, 09:39 PM
that posting has been deleted what was it >?

Still came up fine for me. It's a 2000 Deville with fixed HGs and 117k for $4400.00 in clean shape, Minneapolis...

http://images.craigslist.org/3n83m13o35V45P15S3b3363095db046341085.jpg

ThumperPup
03-06-11, 09:53 PM
Still came up fine for me. It's a 2000 Deville with fixed HGs and 117k for $4400.00 in clean shape, Minneapolis...

http://images.craigslist.org/3n83m13o35V45P15S3b3363095db046341085.jpg

hmm just clicked agian says posting has been deletd by its auther
oh well

but yeah thats a good price 4400 and all
i see 2000 devilles with twice that miles well ok maybe not twice but clsoe to it and ppl think they can get 6k for them here near me lol

Destroyer
03-06-11, 09:55 PM
The RWD N* Cadillacs seem to be doing just fine resale *and* reliability-wise, even with FI. Hmm...Maybe Caddy buyers didn't like FWD? I never did and I never understood why GM had such a hard-on for it in Cadillacs. Still don't. :stirpot:

Playdrv4me
03-06-11, 10:07 PM
Maybe Caddy buyers didn't like FWD? I never did and I never understood why GM had such a hard-on for it in Cadillacs. Still don't. :stirpot:

I never had anything against it. Now, would I have preferred the Seville to be RWD? Absolutely, but it's still the car that brought me to Cadillac and I still love it despite the stupid engine flaws and the FWD. I certainly can understand why they went there when they did, and it seems they're finally moving away from it.

orconn
03-06-11, 11:17 PM
I never had anything against it. Now, would I have preferred the Seville to be RWD? Absolutely, but it's still the car that brought me to Cadillac and I still love it despite the stupid engine flaws and the FWD. I certainly can understand why they went there when they did, and it seems they're finally moving away from it.

I agree, in my case the Seville STS with the N* was the car that brought me back to Cadillac! I don't consider the Catera which predated our first Seville STS as the deciding factor, but rather the '93 Seville STS we pick up as an experiment, it was this car that caused the jettison of the '02 Mercedes CLK!

Aron9000
03-07-11, 12:52 AM
While we tend to agree to a point about the N*, I disagree about the LSx comment. Those motors are just not smooth enough for luxury car duty in non performance/non truck applications. The bottom line is, had the N* been engineered properly to begin with, it would have been no different (and in some ways better) than the Ford 4.6 modular DOHC which did beautiful duty in the Continental and Mark VIII. Smooth as a N*, without exploding somewhere down the line.

In other words, I love the N*, just hate the stupid flaws.

I totally disagree with you that the LS series motors are unsuitable for a luxury car. They are very smooth and sound downright badass in the Escalades. The current Escalade has to have the loudest and best sounding factory exhaust short of anything exotic. Damn things are louder and sound better than a stock Vette or SS Camaro.

Playdrv4me
03-07-11, 01:36 AM
I totally disagree with you that the LS series motors are unsuitable for a luxury car. They are very smooth and sound downright badass in the Escalades. The current Escalade has to have the loudest and best sounding factory exhaust short of anything exotic. Damn things are louder and sound better than a stock Vette or SS Camaro.

I KNEW you were gonna refute me on that point :) . Look, I have one of those 'Lades and yea it sounds great, but it is by no means, in NO form or fashion, in its WILDEST dreams a smooth enough powerplant for something that needs to compete with an LS430 or S550... I'm not knocking the thing, but it's just not remotely in that strata. Like I said in the other thread, an LS series motor in a CTS-V is not only desirable, it's practically a REQUIREMENT because THAT car is intended to mix brute American force with the best attributes of a Cadillac sedan, it NEEDS that lumpy classic V8 character. But the N*, when it's WORKING PROPERLY, STILL manages to have a great V8 burble with the ADDED benefit of a FANTASTIC power band, and an idle and power delivery that is practically as smooth as glass. Still not as smooth as the 4.3 in the Lexus, but no where near an LS motor either. Besides, the slot in the Cadillac line-up that WAS the Fleetwood's IS taken by the Escalade now, so in that sense the SBC is continuing the same work for Cadillac that it was back then. Couple that with the performance market the CTS-V is covering, and the SBC is already doing PLENTY for Cadillac as it is.

This is not a knock against the LS series engine, but everything has its proper place, and a Chevy smallblock in a world class luxury CRUISER, given its intended competition, just doesn't work. There is an experience that buyers of that sort of car, that are NOT enthusiasts like us, expect.

jayoldschool
03-07-11, 06:35 PM
GM should just put the LT5 back in production exclusively for Cadillac sedans. That would make a few people happy, and it is a hell of a lot better engine than the N*. With up to date heads, cams, ignition, and injection, it would make 500hp without breaking a sweat.

http://zr1key.com/index_files/lt5CutAway.JPG

ga_etc
03-07-11, 06:45 PM
That's a good looking motor.

V-Eight
03-07-11, 08:26 PM
It would be great if they could produce it in house as well rather than having it produced by Mercury.

Playdrv4me
03-07-11, 11:45 PM
Yea that LT5 frequently comes to mind when talking about the N* as the DOHC V8 motor GM did "right" (well, with some help), and since long forgotten.

RippyPartsDept
03-08-11, 12:10 AM
i'm not really sure i've heard much about the LT5 - but it did look interesting

for those also not familiar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LT_engine#LT5

Destroyer
03-08-11, 08:56 PM
There is an experience that buyers of that sort of car, that are NOT enthusiasts like us, expect.Blown head gaskets? :suspense::thumbsup:

Destroyer
03-08-11, 08:58 PM
GM should just put the LT5 back in production exclusively for Cadillac sedans. That would make a few people happy, and it is a hell of a lot better engine than the N*. With up to date heads, cams, ignition, and injection, it would make 500hp without breaking a sweat.

http://zr1key.com/index_files/lt5CutAway.JPGYou know, you have something there. This would have been the perfect motor for Cadillacs. With RWD of course. :yup:

RippyPartsDept
03-08-11, 09:24 PM
well the N* is apparently a descendant of this motor ...

they would have to do that again because of the tagline: "made exclusively for cadillac by general motors"

i think that's something that GM is going to want to keep on any V8 in a Cadillac that's not a V-Series

V-Eight
03-08-11, 10:00 PM
well the N* is apparently a descendant of this motor ...

t

Then its the bastard step-child...

thebigjimsho
03-09-11, 10:27 AM
They should drop an LS3 into the CTS as a bridge motor. The LS might not be luxury car smooth but neither is the 3.6. Nor any V6, for that matter.

But as I brought up somewhere in these vast forums, an LS block with an overhead cam setup with smaller displacement and direct injection could be uber sweet...

sunchips
03-21-11, 08:53 PM
Greetings and salutations.

The good news: Sunchips are my favorite chips.

The bad news: Sounds like you got a bum deal, which is too bad and a horrible way to get associated with the Cadillac brand. Whatever you do - DON'T let the engine overheat. Blown head gaskets can be pricey, but are salvageable.

All the best in your situation and hope it pans out for you.

Hahaha! I love Sunchips too can't you tell? Well, I know that Cadillac is a good brand though. My dad had one when I was a little girl so it brings back a lot of memories. Almost everyone in my family has worked for GM at one point and all had at least one Cadillac. So, I am willing to put the work into it. It's just finding someone who wants to actually do it...Thanks to you and everyone for the reply. I really like this forum

jimsbox
03-21-11, 09:36 PM
Sunchips,

Go with the studs, they seem to be the most bullet proof fix. My 00 DHS went 280000 miles before the gasket went, trans was still good and engine had never been worked on. Fix it up and enjoy it. Also, check out northstarperformance.com, Jake may be able to help you find a reasonable and competent shop in your area. Jake is the one that developed and produces the stud kits. He is well respected in these forums. Oh, and yes I put studs in my engine.

Good luck and don't let us take the enjoyment out of you experience.

Jim