: Why is everyone so concerned about a built in nav?



orconn
02-26-11, 07:45 PM
From what I understand, the new portable nav systems are really better than the built in systems in cars today. So I wonder, what is all the importance of having a built in nav in a new car, as opposed to just carrying along a portable?

Submariner409
02-26-11, 07:55 PM
The built-in NAV systems look better. (Of course they're slower, more expensive, and not user-friendly, but the "look what I got" factor comes into play.)

A $149.99 Garmin 5" automotive GPS makes the built-ins look like dinosaurs.

ThumperPup
02-26-11, 08:23 PM
The built-in NAV systems look better. (Of course they're slower, more expensive, and not user-friendly, but the "look what I got" factor comes into play.)



u hit the nail on the head sub you got it thats for sure

ThumperPup
02-26-11, 08:28 PM
well iv had in dash navs in all my cars for the past 9 years all aftermarket the caddy is the first one i ever had a OEM nav in and that was put in after purchase also

for me
i don't mind the gamin nuvi navs they work cool my dad prefers his nuvi unit to the built in ones guess its because he rents cars so much that he can just take it
and never have to pay to update nav disc for several cars

me i like mine cause well if i leave my window open in the summer and someone sticks there hand in to steal a portable unit
insurance won't pay not even worth the time to call and file a report we all know that that unit will never be seen again at least not by the one it was stolen from

how ever if its built in or permanently on the car and not a mobile hook or something then i can add that in as customer equipment pay an extra 10 dollars a year to get up to 5k in coverage witch covers my navi unit my rims and a few other things here and there anything that did not come on the car from the factory

so thats me why i like it and all

i looks cool
but its also cover if someone decided to steal it or do something to it

billc83
02-26-11, 08:35 PM
It's a price thing. People expect something extra to make them feel more exclusive (of course, I'm generalizing, but most built in nav systems I've seen are marketed and sold in luxury cars). A Garmin or TomTom doesn't offer that.

Having the navigation integrated into the dashboard does look cool, though. But besides pure aestetics, anything built in nav can do, a mobile GPS device can do better.

Playdrv4me
02-26-11, 10:38 PM
The problem is that these days manufacturers commonly and almost purposely make their NON nav dashboard layouts downright ugly when an infotainment (they're not just nav anymore anyway) system is available for purchase as an option. Some of the last cars that actually looked good without nav were the last generation Sevilles and Devilles. In fact, in those the factory Nav doesn't look any more purpose built than an aftermarket one.

ThumperPup
02-26-11, 10:53 PM
The problem is that these days manufacturers commonly and almost purposely make their NON nav dashboard layouts downright ugly when an infotainment (they're not just nav anymore anyway) system is available for purchase as an option. Some of the last cars that actually looked good without nav were the last generation Sevilles and Devilles. In fact, in those the factory Nav doesn't look any more purpose built than an aftermarket one.



Id agree with this statement to a point
yes last gen devilles and sevilles ugly with the navs if you are talking 2000-01
but ones 02 hits that navi looks better for 02 03 04 and 05

Rolex
02-26-11, 11:37 PM
I'm not sure what I paid for my nav but it was too much. Nissan's nav system is the least user friendly system I've dealt with. Probably the worst thing is if you're traveling and in an undesirable area where you don't want to stop, you cannot use the nav to find a destination unless you're at a complete stop. I understand they don't want the driver doing it, but not even my passenger can use it.

FWIW the Mapquest app on the iphone is the greatest free app ever invented. It's always up to date, accurate, is full of interest points, and even gives you verbal prompts like a Garmin. Best of all = it's completely FREE.

Destroyer
02-26-11, 11:49 PM
i don't mind the gamin nuvi navs they work cool my dad prefers his nuvi unit to the built in ones guess its because he rents cars so much that he can just take it
and never have to pay to update nav disc for several cars

Does his '89 Grand Marquis have a Nuvi or does he just carry it with him from the Bentley to the Grand Marquis? I'll bet he's got several huh? :yawn:

Playdrv4me
02-27-11, 12:05 AM
I'm not sure what I paid for my nav but it was too much. Nissan's nav system is the least user friendly system I've dealt with. Probably the worst thing is if you're traveling and in an undesirable area where you don't want to stop, you cannot use the nav to find a destination unless you're at a complete stop. I understand they don't want the driver doing it, but not even my passenger can use it.

FWIW the Mapquest app on the iphone is the greatest free app ever invented. It's always up to date, accurate, is full of interest points, and even gives you verbal prompts like a Garmin. Best of all = it's completely FREE.

Oh dear Lord I can't stand that app. So many times at a moment when I've critically needed it my data connection has been poor, or it can't get a proper GPS lock on where I am, or it can't make sense of the destination I'm trying to give it. I got so frustrated with it once I nearly threw the phone at the floor board. Whether all of that is the fault of the iPhone 4 or the app itself doesn't really matter to me, but just reinforces my hate of hand-held things. I stick with the Google Maps if I MUST use the iPhone. But in general I can not STAND fiddling with shit in my hands or warts on my dashboard with cables going every which way when I can have it all in a unified built in system with a nice big screen. I do agree the Nissan one isn't very good though.

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 12:07 AM
Does his '89 Grand Marquis have a Nuvi or does he just carry it with him from the Bentley to the Grand Marquis? I'll bet he's got several huh? :yawn:



hahahaha man very smart :brutal:

ga_etc
02-27-11, 12:07 AM
Some states have instituted laws saying that you can't have anything mounted to your dash or windshield, which is were you typically place your store bought GPS. If you have the in-dash factory unit you don't have to worry about this. And now, like Ian said, they do much more than just Nav. Now you have 40GB build in hard drives, DVD playback capabilities, Satellite raido, and back-up cameras. It's "look at my new toy factor". Nowadays everyone wants to do everything in the car but drive.

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 12:09 AM
id have to say i never tried the nissa nav
but what i have found to be the least user friendly would be the BMW atleast the ones they where using back in 2002 not sure if they have changed them around since but they sucked back then

Playdrv4me
02-27-11, 12:10 AM
Yea BMW had by FAR the most ARCHAIC nav systems of ANY manufacturer up to 2002 with what looked like 8 bit EGA graphics. Unfortunately, they replaced those with the first iterations of iDrive which people hated even more (I had no problem using it). Recent iDrive updates have made it among the best systems out there now.

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 12:12 AM
Some states have instituted laws saying that you can't have anything mounted to your dash or windshield, which is were you typically place your store bought GPS. If you have the in-dash factory unit you don't have to worry about this. And now, like Ian said, they do much more than just Nav. Now you have 40GB build in hard drives, DVD playback capabilities, Satellite raido, and back-up cameras. It's "look at my new toy factor". Nowadays everyone wants to do everything in the car but drive.

I think MI is one of those states
i don't know for sure because well they cant hit u up for laws like that unless they post them in plain sight if you are not licenses and registered in that state
i know i have my iphone holder on my windshield and once or twice a friend said you know you can get a ticket for that its not leagle in Mi
i mentioned that the cops have pulled me over never harassed me about that because i have plates from a state that that law does not come from

how ever if they wanted to challenge me on that its my burden to prove that its not a law in my state

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 12:19 AM
Yea BMW had by FAR the most ARCHAIC nav systems of ANY manufacturer up to 2002 with what looked like 8 bit EGA graphics. Unfortunately, they replaced those with the first iterations of iDrive which people hated even more (I had no problem using it). Recent iDrive updates have made it among the best systems out there now.

Almost afraid to say this without someone calling me a liar or being rude or saying some other stuff but im going to

Dad has a 2002 BMW 7 Series worst car he said he ever owned hated it nothing but problems
lideraly had a layer go threw stuff was getting ready to sew the dealer made them buy it back from him
finally they settled on a trade up instead of buying it back the owner who has that dealership also owned the Jaq and rover dealership in the same area and offered to trade back the BMW for a Equal priced Jaw or Rover of his choice he ended up paying a little more but got a 2002 HSE Rover it was still not that trouble free but i remember he didn't have nay problems for the first 3 years over owning it lol

I think the BMW was in the shop at least 20 times in 3 months for the same problem 4 problems first was the Tranny with that toy stick shifter thing they started back in 01 or was it 02 i forget
also that big dang button in the middle i always called it the bopp button cause you hit it and it is annoying dad almost ripped it out of the car ones lol
the other issues was the navi radio system was always glitching and i forget the other one but they gave him the same as a loaner each time and each one had problems during that time

hueterm
02-27-11, 02:50 AM
My EXT's nav sucks. The DTS' sucks just a little bit less. They were on the cars...I bought them. I'd rather not have them, but whadda ya do?

ben.gators
02-27-11, 03:04 AM
Yes, usually a simple 100$ GPS device works much better than any built-in navigation system. I even like to go further and say the iPhone GPS apps are better than any GPS device for the same reasons that GPS devices are better than built-in navigation systems!

Playdrv4me
02-27-11, 03:08 AM
The 8 inch Supernav in the first '07 I had works beautifully, but I actually like it for the radio and MP3 display even more than the nav itself. I also like that it's a high resolution display (as far as those go). The NON Nav display is an absolute joke.

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 09:40 AM
atleast Chrysler did not purposly try to make the non nav units look like shit
how ever they did give an option for the My Gig units that where a tease
make you think at first your getting a navi in you new Chrysler or Dodge but then when you realize no navi its just a my gig where you can have on screan display and storage info
then that really is a tease LOL

last year i was looking at a 09 Charger had 29k on it was a rental car but it was fully loaded i think it was just registred as a rental but driven as corporate because of the options it had
every option except for the Navi but it had the teasing My Gig system in it lol
it was also that ugly red they Chrysler had
but didn't care about that

came down to weather dad was going to co sign for me or not
he doesnt mind me driving his cars every now and then but he said
when they said they could not put me on the title alone and just have him on the loan that he would not own a car that someone els owned and drove also because if i got in a accident they come after him to sew first
happend with my brother they got dad for a lot of cash because brother caused a little accident no one was hurt but still they saw Dollar $$$$$

and i also looked at this 06 STS with 40k on it no nav unit no extra options but ran great
but dad kept telling me if i get that car im going to have the same problems in a few years that im having iwth my caddy he doenst know much about these cars just knows that every car he has thats cheap is chepa to fix and every car he has that is not cheap is not cheap to fix but we know this

this was when the HG's when first in April last year

Rolex
02-27-11, 12:53 PM
Oh dear Lord I can't stand that app. So many times at a moment when I've critically needed it my data connection has been poor, or it can't get a proper GPS lock on where I am, or it can't make sense of the destination I'm trying to give it. I got so frustrated with it once I nearly threw the phone at the floor board. Whether all of that is the fault of the iPhone 4 or the app itself doesn't really matter to me, but just reinforces my hate of hand-held things. I stick with the Google Maps if I MUST use the iPhone. But in general I can not STAND fiddling with shit in my hands or warts on my dashboard with cables going every which way when I can have it all in a unified built in system with a nice big screen. I do agree the Nissan one isn't very good though.

Interesting....I have the iphone 4 and the app has always worked perfectly for me. :shrug:

Rolex
02-27-11, 12:56 PM
id have to say i never tried the nissa nav
but what i have found to be the least user friendly would be the BMW atleast the ones they where using back in 2002 not sure if they have changed them around since but they sucked back then

I have only laid hands on Honda/acura, GM, and Nissan's factory nav units. Of the 3 the Nissan is the worst and I would say Honda's is the best.

V-Eight
02-27-11, 02:22 PM
I didn't find the nav in our Murano to be all that bad.

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 02:28 PM
From what I understand, the new portable nav systems are really better than the built in systems in cars today. So I wonder, what is all the importance of having a built in nav in a new car, as opposed to just carrying along a portable?
The problems with built-ins is that they are not throw-away items. New portables are no better than new built-ins. It's just you can throw away the portable in 2-3 years and get something better than the 2-3 year old built-in.

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 02:29 PM
The built-in NAV systems look better. (Of course they're slower, more expensive, and not user-friendly, but the "look what I got" factor comes into play.)

A $149.99 Garmin 5" automotive GPS makes the built-ins look like dinosaurs.
I can show you new built-ins that make that Garmin look like a dinosaur.

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 02:34 PM
It's a price thing. People expect something extra to make them feel more exclusive (of course, I'm generalizing, but most built in nav systems I've seen are marketed and sold in luxury cars). A Garmin or TomTom doesn't offer that.

Having the navigation integrated into the dashboard does look cool, though. But besides pure aestetics, anything built in nav can do, a mobile GPS device can do better.
Then you've never used either in New York, Boston or places that aren't just flat or open. Built-ins tie into the vehicle's speedometer and a compass. I can drive through the tunnels of Boston and continue to be on-point. Or drive down the streets of NYC with no signal for 40 blocks bet yet stay on-point. I also don't need to worry about sitting at an intersection and watching the portable flip your direction because it sensed you move a couple feet in a different direction.

Also, an in-dash will give you more pertinent information on a bigger, clearer screen than all but the biggest, most cumbersome portables...

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 02:36 PM
I'm not sure what I paid for my nav but it was too much. Nissan's nav system is the least user friendly system I've dealt with. Probably the worst thing is if you're traveling and in an undesirable area where you don't want to stop, you cannot use the nav to find a destination unless you're at a complete stop. I understand they don't want the driver doing it, but not even my passenger can use it.


That is the problem with built-ins. There are some carmakers that have poor systems. So you may have to settle if you really like the car...

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 02:41 PM
Oh dear Lord I can't stand that app. So many times at a moment when I've critically needed it my data connection has been poor, or it can't get a proper GPS lock on where I am, or it can't make sense of the destination I'm trying to give it. I got so frustrated with it once I nearly threw the phone at the floor board. Whether all of that is the fault of the iPhone 4 or the app itself doesn't really matter to me, but just reinforces my hate of hand-held things. I stick with the Google Maps if I MUST use the iPhone. But in general I can not STAND fiddling with shit in my hands or warts on my dashboard with cables going every which way when I can have it all in a unified built in system with a nice big screen. I do agree the Nissan one isn't very good though.
Agreed. The dumbest thing ever is that Lincoln doesn't offer the TC Executive Series L with a navigation. Even though it's a double DIN opening that would fit the universal Lincoln unit. So other guys are running wires from their portable on their dashboard to the outlet. Which obstructs their vision and takes up a valuable outlet. My driver's area is free of clutter.

I don't have to reach too far to use the navigation. I don't have to worry about wobble. I don't have to worry about a mount failing. I don't have to worry about a smash and grab or stowing it every time I stop.

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 02:43 PM
Some states have instituted laws saying that you can't have anything mounted to your dash or windshield, which is were you typically place your store bought GPS. If you have the in-dash factory unit you don't have to worry about this. And now, like Ian said, they do much more than just Nav. Now you have 40GB build in hard drives, DVD playback capabilities, Satellite raido, and back-up cameras. It's "look at my new toy factor". Nowadays everyone wants to do everything in the car but drive.

My '04 V had a below average nav and the way GM integrated it was poor. You could mute the voice volume but it would still mute the radio. That was a big WTF! But my '09 V has a wonderful navigation. Now, I love the nav on my HTC Evo and it worked great in Chicago. But I would still have rather had my V's nav system. I think anyone who disagrees has never spent much time with a good built-in unit...

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 02:46 PM
My EXT's nav sucks. The DTS' sucks just a little bit less. They were on the cars...I bought them. I'd rather not have them, but whadda ya do?

GM is awkward. I think they have contracts with different nav suppliers. I've seen the ones in the DTS and they are pretty poor. Yet, a buddy of mine has a Suburban with a setup like the one in my Town Car and V. Some of the GM's are poor, some are great. Which brings us back to the biggest drawback of the built-in...

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 02:47 PM
Yes, usually a simple 100$ GPS device works much better than any built-in navigation system. I even like to go further and say the iPhone GPS apps are better than any GPS device for the same reasons that GPS devices are better than built-in navigation systems!

Again, you haven't spent any time with a good built-in, then...

thebigjimsho
02-27-11, 03:00 PM
As you can see, I'm quite opinionated on GPS.

I have been a chauffeur for the last 14+ years. And for a few years, I avoided GPS altogether. Didn't think I needed it. Being in the Boston area I needed, and had, street maps for every town in MA, NH, VT, RI, CT and NYC with Westchester County and parts of NJ. If a street map for all of Maine existed, I'd have that too. I cut my teeth the proper way.

But on a trip with a friend to another friend's place on Staten Island, we found GPS to be very valuable. Hit a big accident on the Merritt Parkway in CT. Now, if I had a client I could break out a mapbook and find my way around. But we were in his Acura MDX and we got off at the next exit and just found back roads all around and got up 5 miles up. Now, CT has some crazy back roads that can start in one direction and bring you someplace entirely different than from where you were hoping. On that trip, I saw the value.

I then bought a Garmin PDA that had GPS. And I used that as my portable for 2 years. Being a PDA, I was able to develop contacts of clients and then just set their location. I liked it a lot and it's made me partial to Garmins. I am able to use my knowledge of New England and what I learned from maps and then use GPS to build on that. It is indeed nice to bring someone home at night and not have to wake up a client or stop and look at a map in that dark to find that road in an intricate neighborhood.

But the Eclipse built-in I had installed in my '07 TC trumped the Garmin portable immensely. I can set the screen however I want. I can split screen constantly if I want, or only when nearing turns. I can use that split screen to have a permanent turn list, to have one map as a constant north and one with the map orientated in the direction I'm traveling. Gotta love that big 7" screen.

But I do love the value and versatility of portables. But I don't even need to buy one. My HTC Evo has a big screen comparable to portables and the navigation is excellent, especially when there is the backup of Google maps. But there was a couple times where a built-in would've been better. Especially on some of the quick ramps and small streets of Chicago.

Submariner409
02-27-11, 07:10 PM
WUT ?????? :violin::postwhore3:

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 08:06 PM
I have only laid hands on Honda/acura, GM, and Nissan's factory nav units. Of the 3 the Nissan is the worst and I would say Honda's is the best.

Honda and Acura are the same ?

atleast i thout hat is what they are
i have never touched a Honda with a Nav but have used Acura Navi in my Aunt's TL it was really a nice set up easy to use for me

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 08:13 PM
I think right now the best Built in aftermarket unit would be Sony they have one that uses Tom Tom i was actually advertised here in Cleveland in the best buy add today
i have a friend who has it he paid like 1000 for it but i see it for a few hundred less at best buy
if i where in the market for a new navi right now and wanted to go aftermarket that is what id probably try out

but im not so i won't

i know i need to get the screen replaced on my unit i have it has some dead pixels in it so looking for a good screen unit damage drive or something so i can get it cheap
if not ill just look for a really good unit that is no more then 400 on eBay i see them all the time over there and they seem to be peaty decent
this one i have now i only got it because i broke the screen in my old one and i picked this one up with a bad screen for 75 bucks from junk yard had been on there shelf for 5 years they just wanted to get ride of it
so took it chances it screen had no scratches but dead pixle also since it sat so long didn't have to have the vin cleared it had cleared it self by then
so it was good and cheap replacement

hueterm
02-27-11, 09:48 PM
Did Orconn really mean built-in, vs. OEM vs. aftermarket?

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 09:49 PM
Did Orconn really mean built-in, vs. OEM vs. aftermarket?

good question

orconn
02-27-11, 11:02 PM
I meant Manufacturer OEM vs. aftermarket portable.

ThumperPup
02-27-11, 11:14 PM
I meant Manufacturer OEM vs. aftermarket portable.

Ok Cool thanks for the Explanation on what you where looking for this helps alot

thebigjimsho
02-28-11, 12:11 PM
WUT ?????? :violin::postwhore3:
I picked individual rebuttals for each individual point. Or I can just do up a Rick-style diatribe...

Submariner409
02-28-11, 12:18 PM
:sneaky: Rants and oil wars are more fun than objective problem-solving.

ThumperPup
02-28-11, 03:31 PM
:sneaky: Rants and oil wars are more fun than objective problem-solving.

:worship::yeah:

thebigjimsho
02-28-11, 04:19 PM
:sneaky: Rants and oil wars are more fun than objective problem-solving.
There is no problem-solving here. I tell you what's right and you glean information...

Jesda
02-28-11, 04:57 PM
Phone-based nav is great in the city, but good luck getting 3G in a remote area (I'm a traveler).

A cheap $50 new or used GPS unit picks up the slack.

thebigjimsho
02-28-11, 08:35 PM
Phone-based nav is great in the city, but good luck getting 3G in a remote area (I'm a traveler).

A cheap $50 new or used GPS unit picks up the slack.
por qua?

My Evo is not 3G or 4G dependent when using the nav. It's like any GPS device, I think...

Jesda
02-28-11, 08:51 PM
por qua?

My Evo is not 3G or 4G dependent when using the nav. It's like any GPS device, I think...

Maps are stored remotely rather than on the device like a standard GPS unit. It may give you a point on a map, but its white space. At best, you'll have coverage only for interstates and primary roads, which is fine for most but insufficient for some (me).