: How long is to long?



sleepys4
02-15-11, 03:03 PM
In early December I took my car to the dealership to get my motor mounts replaced and because my steering was not working. I have the GMPP major guard, etc. I got my rental car, life was good. January 3rd I get a phone call telling me to bring the rental car back because my extended warranty is not covering it anymore. I didn't to much about it and returned the car. It is now going on two months that it has been at the dealership for steering components. Its no telling how much longer it will be there. I'm on the fence about what to do. I would like to go down there and give them a piece of my mine, I doubt that will help much. Any suggestions? I have a 2004 V btw

heavymetals
02-15-11, 03:12 PM
Call Cadillac Customer service and get a case # started.

Andringa
02-15-11, 03:16 PM
As I remember last year there were people waiting multiple months to get a new power steering rack. Most likely there is some part that they can't get their hands on and are just sitting and waiting for it to show up. I wouldn't harass them about it, but if it was my car I would at least call and find out why it is taking so long.

If you find out that they are waiting for some part that is on back-order, find out what part they need and give Luke a call at Lindsay Cadillac. He has been able to come up with hard to find V parts in the past.

V-Guy
02-15-11, 03:17 PM
I agree. And that is way too long. It's time to get some attention.

CadzillaTN
02-15-11, 04:17 PM
Complain all you want, it won't help. Cadillac corporate customer service doesn't care about your silly rack lol. (no offense)

Long story short vendor shuffle is going on, the new GM and old GM are choosing their suppliers. Ive heard it all, vendor is being set up.vendor is tooling. Vendor is retooling. Dies, r&d, all that BS...I've also been told to chill and wait or they'll throw some pos used rack in there. Mine has been 'defective' for 3 yrs but went off a cliff around sept. Dealer finally acknowledged it then, part has been on backorder status since.

I had to convert this video from landscape to portrait so it's a bit jittery now. Regardless, you can see the play in my wheel. Im going about 65 and I can move the wheel freely in the range you see without affecting direction. The wheel naturally sits at the 1oclock position which you see at the 11sec mark. If I straighten it up, i'm veering off the road left. The magnasteer is designed to push back on you at higher speeds to maintain control. If I dont hold the 'slack' it will drift/pull similar to a sudden wind blowing you out of direction... and the bumpsteer, well..you'll shat your drawers man.. I wont even let people ride with me because I dont know 100% that we wont bumpsteer into an oncoming car. You certainly have to pick your spot at all times.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=J2UOJUZi94U

I was thinking the other day that I might cry when I leave the dealer and the V actually goes where I point it for the first time...

Houdini
02-15-11, 09:59 PM
So with a GMPP major guard warranty they can just stop paying for a rental even though your car isn't fixed yet? That sucks.

AAIIIC
02-15-11, 10:29 PM
At the very least the Service Manager at the dealership needs to know that your car has been there for 2 months and nobody has told you a thing. If you don't feel like he's showing the appropriate level of concern then go to the head of the dealership.

Rockauto.com shows an ACDelco reman rack can be shipped in 5 days. www.car-part.com has multiple used racks, including a bunch at Cleveland Pick-a-part. Looking at their website, one of their new arrivals is an '05 V that got nailed in the rear - http://www.clevelandpickapart.com/late_model_auto_parts.html. Rack should be fine on that one. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd rather have a used rack than have my car sitting for 2+ months at the dealership with no end in sight! (With the understanding that they owe me a new rack once one becomes available.)

CadzillaTN
02-15-11, 11:28 PM
gm can do whatever they want. they're gm!

google gm dispute. there's about 1,000,000,000,000 cases pending lol

sleepys4
02-16-11, 02:37 PM
Thanks for all the input!

Baltimore07V
02-16-11, 08:21 PM
Here is the advice that I would give you. And usually it is pretty effective advice when dealing with large companies.

1.) Call Cadillac customer care, get a case number. This is important for large companies because this incident number will be used by any level of management to look up the history of what your going through and lets decision makers get good information (IE what is going on) in a rapid manner. (Working for a large corporation I can tell you this is very important to settling customer complaints)
2.) Get the name and mailing address of your area cadillac rep, their boss, the person who oversees the warranty and repair for the Cadilliac division, and the name and mailing address of the person who oversees the entire Cadilliac division.
3,) Mail a letter to the above persons, the owner of the dealership, and the BBB.
4.) Watch how quickly your case gets resolved.

A letter CC'd to the entire chain of command, and the BBB will get your case noticed and quickly. Detail the fact that you have the Major Guard, that they have pulled your rental car and you are now out of pocket for a car they can't repair for an extended period of time. Mention in the letter that if parts aren't available you don't understand why anyone would buy a car that can't be repaired when it breaks, and how a domestic manufacturer can't even seem to get parts for cars in the US? Ultimately ask for an explanation to why you should entertain a Cadilliac in the future. I have urged folks on this board before to remind these businesses that Cadilliac owners have disposable income. These are not econoboxs to get to and from work, but instead luxury items which we want, but do not need. That income can be spent elsewhere.

That approach, remember to remain tactful and polite, will get results. Stay firm, but demand a fair and resonable response. Ask for reimbursement for costs incurred (rental), a timely resolution to the part issues, and if they are unable to repair, full blue book on your car/pay off auto loan (which ever is greater).

Good luck.

Nick

kevm14
02-16-11, 08:56 PM
One thing that bothers me a little about this whole supplier/back-order business is I would worry the replacement part would be inferior to the OEM part. I know that's hard to imagine depending on whatever is WRONG with said OEM part. This may be a bad example but I got a new shift boot/knob/trim due to peeling. The "leather" on the new knob is so cheap feeling. I don't think it's even leather. The stock one matched the steering wheel really nicely and felt fairly high quality (the leather itself). But the new one feels like painted foam or something. Or vinyl. I'd worry about rushing to manufacture something and not doing it right. Which is not good news, I know.

CadzillaTN
02-16-11, 09:57 PM
Here is the advice that I would give you. And usually it is pretty effective advice when dealing with large companies.

1.) Call Cadillac customer care, get a case number. This is important for large companies because this incident number will be used by any level of management to look up the history of what your going through and lets decision makers get good information (IE what is going on) in a rapid manner. (Working for a large corporation I can tell you this is very important to settling customer complaints)
2.) Get the name and mailing address of your area cadillac rep, their boss, the person who oversees the warranty and repair for the Cadilliac division, and the name and mailing address of the person who oversees the entire Cadilliac division.
3,) Mail a letter to the above persons, the owner of the dealership, and the BBB.
4.) Watch how quickly your case gets resolved.

A letter CC'd to the entire chain of command, and the BBB will get your case noticed and quickly. Detail the fact that you have the Major Guard, that they have pulled your rental car and you are now out of pocket for a car they can't repair for an extended period of time. Mention in the letter that if parts aren't available you don't understand why anyone would buy a car that can't be repaired when it breaks, and how a domestic manufacturer can't even seem to get parts for cars in the US? Ultimately ask for an explanation to why you should entertain a Cadilliac in the future. I have urged folks on this board before to remind these businesses that Cadilliac owners have disposable income. These are not econoboxs to get to and from work, but instead luxury items which we want, but do not need. That income can be spent elsewhere.

That approach, remember to remain tactful and polite, will get results. Stay firm, but demand a fair and resonable response. Ask for reimbursement for costs incurred (rental), a timely resolution to the part issues, and if they are unable to repair, full blue book on your car/pay off auto loan (which ever is greater).

Good luck.

Nick

Lol. BBB? They haven't told him to F off, the part is backorded, period. At best he'll get moved up the waiting list if he throws a nice fit.

This is GM man, not some rinky dink company. I wouldn't go demanding anything. Parts have been a problem forever, and not just for Cadillacs. Even when racks were in "production" it could take a couple months to get one.

I don't think they've done anything wrong. The gmpp agreement says they only owe him a rental while the car is being repaired, not while parts are being sourced. I've had a rental for a few days then returned and got my car back to wait on the part to come in. It's standard practice..

I'll ping my dealer tomorrow and get the latest standard update..

Baltimore07V
02-17-11, 12:45 PM
Lol. BBB? They haven't told him to F off, the part is backorded, period. At best he'll get moved up the waiting list if he throws a nice fit.

This is GM man, not some rinky dink company. I wouldn't go demanding anything. Parts have been a problem forever, and not just for Cadillacs. Even when racks were in "production" it could take a couple months to get one.

I don't think they've done anything wrong. The gmpp agreement says they only owe him a rental while the car is being repaired, not while parts are being sourced. I've had a rental for a few days then returned and got my car back to wait on the part to come in. It's standard practice..

I'll ping my dealer tomorrow and get the latest standard update..

The rinky-dink company I work for does over $40 billion a year. And yes this approach does work quite well. What the problem centers around is a loss of use, and a realistic resolution provided from the company. If the issue was the part was unavailable for a few days, thats fine, but we are dealing with realistic expectations, and the time that has elapsed is well past that. Like I said above, since the part is unavailable for extended periods of time, the customer should ask GM to do the right thing, including an extended rental (or reimbursment for one) or equivlent compensation to cover the owners additional expenses incurred while GM could not provide the service.

The OP can assume the response that you have provided, or they can take a different approach. But doing nothing will result in more of the same.

CadzillaTN
02-17-11, 03:57 PM
First, I agree with your suggestion in principle. I'm not saying that approach is not necessary sometimes, or that it will not work. I'm simply saying this is not an isolated case and other than it "sucking", there's no wrongdoing or malicious ignorance on the part of GM.

He will not get a newly manufactured steering rack any sooner with all the lawyer talk and escalation procedures. What he will get is either a used or reman rack, or he'll get moved up the waiting list. OR, someone at a higher level might approve the extended rental. But, if his car is still "drivable", albeit maybe not to his standard, he can go pick it up any time he wants. I'm not saying they won't work with him at all...but they certainly aren't going to monetarily compensate him or any of that other fluff stuff like recovery of lost time, pain and suffering, doctor bills, etc. It's not a workman's comp claim.

They don't owe him jack shizzle under the gmpp agreement other than a new part, and a rental while that part is being installed. You can spend all the time and money you want arguing with GM, but you'll end up at the same end point as if you waited and patiently asked what the latest status is every week or so.

They already did him a favor by waiting a month to take the rental back and I assure you gmpp probably ate that cost assuming the rack would become available, only to be let down as well by the goons running GM's sourcing dept.

That being said, I would like to see him go balls to the wall with the complaints and I'll sit back and wait, just to test the theory. Since my claim went in months ahead of his, if he gets his brand new rack before I do, one can assume the effort was warranted...

Baltimore07V
02-17-11, 04:12 PM
First, I agree with your suggestion in principle. I'm not saying that approach is not necessary sometimes, or that it will not work. I'm simply saying this is not an isolated case and other than it "sucking", there's no wrongdoing or malicious ignorance on the part of GM.

He will not get a newly manufactured steering rack any sooner with all the lawyer talk and escalation procedures. What he will get is either a used or reman rack, or he'll get moved up the waiting list. OR, someone at a higher level might approve the extended rental. But, if his car is still "drivable", albeit maybe not to his standard, he can go pick it up any time he wants. I'm not saying they won't work with him at all...but they certainly aren't going to monetarily compensate him or any of that other fluff stuff like recovery of lost time, pain and suffering, doctor bills, etc. It's not a workman's comp claim.

They don't owe him jack shizzle under the gmpp agreement other than a new part, and a rental while that part is being installed. You can spend all the time and money you want arguing with GM, but you'll end up at the same end point as if you waited and patiently asked what the latest status is every week or so.

They already did him a favor by waiting a month to take the rental back and I assure you gmpp probably ate that cost assuming the rack would become available, only to be let down as well by the goons running GM's sourcing dept.

That being said, I would like to see him go balls to the wall with the complaints and I'll sit back and wait, just to test the theory. Since my claim went in months ahead of his, if he gets his brand new rack before I do, one can assume the effort was warranted...

He may not get the part any quicker, due in part to production issues, but the letter and complaint processess (please note I actually recommend against threatening with legal action) instead is to offset any costs he may incurr during this whole situation. It is fully reasonable to expect a rental during this period, and having seen your video above I would agrue that you should as well. Thats outright dangerous to drive a car this powerful without a better degree of control then presented above.

Simply put what should be demanded is a level of reasonable customer service. An expectation that someone in charge says "hey this thing is broke, and this person needs to drive in the time being. here's a rental, sorry your cars going to be up in the shop for an indetermined period of time." It would also be reasonable for the company to extend the GMPP for the period of time the car is unable to be used, since we are discussing months of non-use. Very reasonable, and within the power of a member of management to do. Just put the ball in their court, and make your plight known.

Stepside
02-17-11, 05:12 PM
AAIIIC gave the OP ~ TWO sources . .

And I'll give you a 3rd source . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-07-CTS-V-Steering-Rack-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35afe6da02QQitemZ23058 4408578QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

Now less talk ~ more action!

Andringa
02-17-11, 07:38 PM
I just wanted to point out that the OP only stated "steering components", I then commented that this reminded me of when people were waiting for steering racks last year. Sleepys4 never actually stated that he is waiting for a power steering rack.

CadzillaTN
02-18-11, 12:17 AM
He may not get the part any quicker, due in part to production issues, but the letter and complaint processess (please note I actually recommend against threatening with legal action) instead is to offset any costs he may incurr during this whole situation. It is fully reasonable to expect a rental during this period, and having seen your video above I would agrue that you should as well. Thats outright dangerous to drive a car this powerful without a better degree of control then presented above.

Simply put what should be demanded is a level of reasonable customer service. An expectation that someone in charge says "hey this thing is broke, and this person needs to drive in the time being. here's a rental, sorry your cars going to be up in the shop for an indetermined period of time." It would also be reasonable for the company to extend the GMPP for the period of time the car is unable to be used, since we are discussing months of non-use. Very reasonable, and within the power of a member of management to do. Just put the ball in their court, and make your plight known.

Agreed. In my personal opinion they owe him a rental from the time the car is diagnosed until the part is installed.

And yes, it is very dangerous in my case. It's gotten significantly worse in the last month. Pending the dealers response to my latest inquiry today, I may be changing the game plan because I truly feel my safety is at risk now.


AAIIIC gave the OP ~ TWO sources . .

And I'll give you a 3rd source . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-07-CTS-V-Steering-Rack-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35afe6da02QQitemZ23058 4408578QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

Now less talk ~ more action!

Great work Super-Searchers, but the OP is under warranty ~


I just wanted to point out that the OP only stated "steering components", I then commented that this reminded me of when people were waiting for steering racks last year. Sleepys4 never actually stated that he is waiting for a power steering rack.

There aren't many components- shaft, intermediate shaft, some pivot boot connection, the rack, tie rod ends- am I missing something? It could be the actuator, which comes as part of the rack..otherwise it's probably the rack.

Baltimore07V
02-18-11, 12:42 AM
Agreed. In my personal opinion they owe him a rental from the time the car is diagnosed until the part is installed.

And yes, it is very dangerous in my case. It's gotten significantly worse in the last month. Pending the dealers response to my latest inquiry today, I may be changing the game plan because I truly feel my safety is at risk now.

I truely hope you both get your steering taken care of. Unfortunatly (And I do find this in my company as well, as many large companies do) if someone is asleep at the switch, or doesn't have the customers best interest in mind, many times a customer will be forced into a situation which is not to their benefit or what they paid for.

That is why I advocate for the approach I have recommended. Its not about lawyers and compensation for ones time, but instead about letting managers know about your situation. I can't tell you how many customer relationships with my company have been salvaged simply by letters being written or even phone calls that have reached me through customer care. As a manager who handles 30+ million in business alone, I can tell you that when people let me know where our system has failed them, it allows me a chance to make things right. And I am not talking about paying out pain and suffering, but simple things (sometimes a $0.60 part is all that is needed like a knob for example) are all that is needed to make the customers experience a good one. Let your plight be known to those who have the power to make a decision to make it right. You will be surprised at the results.

Baltimore07V
02-18-11, 01:03 AM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-general/188330-power-steering-racks-none-available-my.html

It is possible for GM to compensate you for your loss of use. See above.

CadzillaTN
02-18-11, 01:54 AM
No one wins in that thread, just more sad rack stories...

CadzillaTN
02-21-11, 03:49 PM
My rack came in today!

Houdini
02-21-11, 05:33 PM
^Wow finally... fingers crossed that you don't have any more play after they replace.

sleepys4
02-22-11, 04:35 PM
Mine came in on saturday. After calling customer service 3 times last week they reimbursed me for a rental for 5 weeks at $35 a day. It was never about the money, I just felt like they were leaving me in the dark, not returning phone calls, etc. With that said $1225 in my pocket and no charges for the repair I am a happy camper. Thanks all for the advice and help!

Andringa
02-23-11, 05:24 PM
Glad to hear that it worked out for you.

CadzillaTN
02-23-11, 06:40 PM
Sleepy, be sure to post your results!

I dropped mine off today. I can't help but be apprehensive though... It may not solve the problem completely, but it will at least eliminate the most influential steering component from the diagnostic list..

The caddys were all gone so I had to get a chevy cobalt as a loaner... What a little crapmobile that is!

kevm14
02-23-11, 06:43 PM
Not even an Impala?

Baltimore07V
02-23-11, 06:52 PM
Sleepy, be sure to post your results!

I dropped mine off today. I can't help but be apprehensive though... It may not solve the problem completely, but it will at least eliminate the most influential steering component from the diagnostic list..

The caddys were all gone so I had to get a chevy cobalt as a loaner... What a little crapmobile that is!


Wow, a cobalt?!? I would recind all my letters and apologize for my caddy taking so long to repair to the dealership and ask for forgiveness. What did you do to them to take such a punishment?

Baltimore07V
02-23-11, 06:52 PM
Mine came in on saturday. After calling customer service 3 times last week they reimbursed me for a rental for 5 weeks at $35 a day. It was never about the money, I just felt like they were leaving me in the dark, not returning phone calls, etc. With that said $1225 in my pocket and no charges for the repair I am a happy camper. Thanks all for the advice and help!

Glad it all worked out for you.

CadzillaTN
02-23-11, 07:18 PM
Wow, a cobalt?!? I would recind all my letters and apologize for my caddy taking so long to repair to the dealership and ask for forgiveness. What did you do to them to take such a punishment?

I think you get blackballed when you pass the $20,000 mark on warranty work

Baltimore07V
02-24-11, 04:37 AM
I think you get blackballed when you pass the $20,000 mark on warranty work

I'll have to keep a tally. Does the car finally track straight and true?

CadzillaTN
02-24-11, 10:37 AM
It's still at the dealer..we'll see! I tacked a few more issues on the list so the visit may extended into tomorrow.

It's raining today.. I just emailed my writer to ask that no one drive it on wet roads because I have a new diff that is fairly quiet.. I don't want anyone hopping it around. As everyone knows, it takes zero gas to hop a V in the rain. Inexperienced drivers wouldn't even know they were hurting anything... I always start in second in the rain and still skips a bit if I'm not careful..

Regarding the cobalt, you can drive that little bugger with pure abandon. I think I experienced it's limit in a parking lot last night.

Baltimore07V
02-24-11, 08:10 PM
regarding the cobalt, you can drive that little bugger with pure abandon. I think i experienced it's limit in a parking lot last night.

LOL. Thats awesome!

CadzillaTN
02-26-11, 01:16 AM
Got the V back today. Feels good! The play is gone- well, mostly gone. Normal play is still there, but it's that connected play, not a free air no-feel play. I’m sure it would feel tighter if my suspension was a bit more buttoned down. The overall feel is MUCH heavier than it was before, in an oddly stiff way like I don't even have power steering.. Hitting bumps on the highway is no longer a life threatening event and I have linear control in the turns.

That said, I wasn't expecting it to be perfect, and it isn't just yet. The dealer only did a front wheel alignment, apparently with their eyes shut. The new rack really exposes the flaws, so I have to hold it with considerably more force than before to keep it on the road, especially at highway speeds. I'll get a 4 wheel alignment asap to fix the pulling problem.

I plan to immediately flush my ps fluid as to not damage or further contaminate the new rack. I also haven't ruled out the possibility of it being defective out of the box -- overly stiff steering can be a fluid leak or bad seal. All my other hoses are dry and tight. I think the more logical reason for stiffness is a failing pump and or/pulley which can’t sufficiently power the rack.. I would like to just replace these things when I flush the fluid, but at $300+ that's a pricey decision. I'll get the alignment and flush done and go from there. I'm due back in a couple weeks for tranny work so if need be we’ll talk a little more about it.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0438.jpg

Baltimore07V
02-26-11, 07:35 AM
Got the V back today. Feels good! The play is gone- well, mostly gone. Normal play is still there, but it's that connected play, not a free air no-feel play. I’m sure it would feel tighter if my suspension was a bit more buttoned down. The overall feel is MUCH heavier than it was before, in an oddly stiff way like I don't even have power steering.. Hitting bumps on the highway is no longer a life threatening event and I have linear control in the turns.

That said, I wasn't expecting it to be perfect, and it isn't just yet. The dealer only did a front wheel alignment, apparently with their eyes shut. The new rack really exposes the flaws, so I have to hold it with considerably more force than before to keep it on the road, especially at highway speeds. I'll get a 4 wheel alignment asap to fix the pulling problem.

I plan to immediately flush my ps fluid as to not damage or further contaminate the new rack. I also haven't ruled out the possibility of it being defective out of the box -- overly stiff steering can be a fluid leak or bad seal. All my other hoses are dry and tight. I think the more logical reason for stiffness is a failing pump and or/pulley which can’t sufficiently power the rack.. I would like to just replace these things when I flush the fluid, but at $300+ that's a pricey decision. I'll get the alignment and flush done and go from there. I'm due back in a couple weeks for tranny work so if need be we’ll talk a little more about it.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0438.jpg

One thing that I found is that below like 40 degrees the winter power steering fluid from GM (Cold Weather stuff) is a necessity. Our cars do not like the cold, and the steering components do much better with the cold weather formula. Just my experience though.

612WharfAvenue
02-26-11, 10:53 AM
You guys are troupers. I just had mine in for the "Service stability system" issue and was starting to become agitated when they kept it wednesday-friday. Partially cause I had to take it back to the dealer I got it from to have them send it over to their GM shop 20 minutes away, which it seems it took them a day to do. If something ever took more than a week i'd be a constant thorn in somebody's side.

I guess I was spoiled before - at the indy I'd took my last car to, I'd drop it off in the morning, they'd drive me to the metro, and usually by noon I'd get a call with a description of the problem, what it would cost to fix, and when they could have it ready (often same day) if I gave the ok right then. Then again, they were getting money from me instead of having to fix it for free.....