: Cars you'd love to own, but are afraid to buy. (lets be realistic)



I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-15-11, 12:44 AM
1997-02 Audi A8L Quattro/S8. I love the way these look and drive. Their styling is restrained and quiet, yet still very elegant and even though it's a full size, it hides it's mass very well. I drove a '99 A8 shortly after I bought my '99 S320 and the A8 was much nimbler and much quicker. It didn't ride as quite as nice or feel as elegant as the S Class, but it's much smaller and more of a driver's car by design. For as much as I love looking at them and driving them, I'd simply be afraid to own them, as I've heard tons of horror stories regarding the late '90s, early '00s Audis, and this is the biggest, and most complex of the Audi/VW family.
http://photos.ecarlist.com/2s/Ry/Ms/Iz/Ur/ev/t8/hr/vQ/Y2/Iw_640.jpg
http://photos.ecarlist.com/ur/Z2/pI/sS/oa/Ty/3F/QR/Sk/Er/gQ_640.jpg

1993-95 Cadillac Seville STS. $2,500 headgasket replacement, need I say more? Again, with the Audi, I love the way these look and drive. I drove a white/white '94 STS years back and it was the most fun I've ever had behind the wheel of a Cadillac. It offered a great steering feel, great engine/exhaust sound and tremendous power for the early '90s. I think it's one of the best looking Cadillacs from the last 20 years.
http://www.premiumsedan.com/includes/images/Cadillac_Seville/1993CSsts.jpg

1970-75 Citroen SM. Love the goofy, French styling, endless amount of bizarre French engineering innovations (air/hydraulic oil suspension, maserati sourced V6, one spoke steering wheel, etc) excellent roadability and good power. Would be extremely afraid to own one because of a lack of knowledgeable service and parts, not to mention when you do find any good parts & service, it'll make any Audi or Mercedes seem like a Hyundai by comparison.
http://cacb.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/citroen-sm-26892.jpg

Stingroo
02-15-11, 01:00 AM
Hmm... I don't know if I could think of anything I really WANT that I'd be scared to own... (most of it's LT/LS powered... :lol:)

ThumperPup
02-15-11, 01:02 AM
id love to have a GMC Typhoon but i have heard form a few ppl that have goen threw 2 or 3 transmisions in those in a 5 year period

id like to have a chrysler Pacifica all wheel drive touring but i have heard really bad things about the MPG those things get worst then 40 percent of the crosse overs

id want another caddy id love a 96-02 Eldorado Convertible but scared to have to go threw another Headgasket repaire

Jesda
02-15-11, 01:18 AM
We were just talking about this car at SaabCentral. Amazing forward thinking design.

http://www.q45.org/gallery/gallery3/var/resizes/Citroen-SM_1972_800x600_wallpaper_05.jpg?m=1297750513
AWESOME SEATS.


Audi A8 is on my list too. My cousin has an A6 and its beautiful inside and out. Shockingly, he's had no issues other than a bad coil pack (which made it possible to buy the car for quite a discount).

Jaguar XJS is my ultimate mechanically nightmarish indulgence:
http://images04.olx.com/ui/2/10/45/23140545_1.jpg

Stingroo
02-15-11, 01:23 AM
Yeah I'd rock a Sy/Ty. mmmmm.

Aron9000
02-15-11, 01:26 AM
This has to be the best looking Cadillac probably going back to model year 1970. Almost bought a mid 90's one back in 2003 instead of a Z28 Camaro. Looking back, I'm glad I went with the Camaro, it was really trouble free and a blast to drive as well.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJMmouRHjzkPVreOSmvxZM0ZVJ_q0_Q 91kID67CjdtBQ-gvxvQ

I'd really like an e38 7 series or e39 5 series BMW as well. Definitely a manual shift e39 though. Those are just like the Eldorado though, you can easily spend as much on repairs in 2-3 years of ownership as you originally paid for the damn car to start with. An E30 3 series would be really tempting since they're easier to work on and a lot less complicated though.

Playdrv4me
02-15-11, 01:35 AM
http://www.scorpiocars.net/images/Mercedes-Benz/2001%20Mercedes-Benz%20CL%2055%20AMG_15.jpg

http://audia8.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/audi-a8-w12.jpg

And a couple that I'd drive despite the red flags...

http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/range_rover_supercharged_2006_2.jpg

http://www.westauction.com/user_images/4749337.jpg

ga_etc
02-15-11, 03:50 AM
Aron, the ETC you have pictured is virtually IDENTICAL to mine. Same wheels and all. I also have a similar tag on mine.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/1007101354-1.jpg
Mine has been good to me so far. Josiah and I are taking it to Chicago this weekend for the meet and I have full confidence in her abilities.


As far as my list goes, this is what comes to mind right now.
http://www.customclassicautos.com/inventory/93/968.jpg
I might regret it, but one of these days I will have a 560 SEL. Those and the late '70s to early '80s SL are what comes to mind first when I think Mercedes.

http://jimmyjagautosalesllc.com/files/images/inventory/945cf3cb821e05569155a1b35292fd101b34d6ea.jpg
http://jimmyjagautosalesllc.com/files/images/inventory/9f2125599ccef494675ca1948429366e78b74439.jpg
Same story as the MB. It might bite me in the ass but I'll have one before it's all said and done. And yes, I even like the flush headlights on the XJ6 that everyone detests so much.

http://image.motortrend.com/f/recalls/honda-expands-airbag-inflator-recall-ups-estimate-to-440-000-cars/29186022+w750/2003-acura-32-tl-type-s.jpg
I'm not as afraid of the TL Type-S as I am the Jag and M-B, but walking into a car and expecting the trans to go at any time is never fun. I think the '01-'03 TL Type-S is one of the best looking cars Acura has made to date.

Jesda
02-15-11, 04:23 AM
The only TL to buy is the Type-S with 6-speed manual. Nice clutch, precise shift action.

ga_etc
02-15-11, 04:27 AM
Unfortunately the '01-'03 wasn't offered with a stick even though the CL was. TL didn't get a manual till '04, if memory serves correctly.

Aron9000
02-15-11, 04:56 AM
Aron, the ETC you have pictured is virtually IDENTICAL to mine. Same wheels and all. I also have a similar tag on mine.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/1007101354-1.jpg
Mine has been good to me so far. Josiah and I are taking it to Chicago this weekend for the meet and I have full confidence in her abilities.



Man I have serious Cadillac envy with that Eldorado of yours. That red color with the beige leather is my favorite color combo. A guy at my work has a pearl white Eldorado ETC on some 20" wheels that looks really sharp as well. His car is immaculate, always looks like it was freshly waxed and blinds you.



As for the Acura TL, I've always thought that the 2004-2008 models were the sharpest looking mainstream 4 door sedans on the market, along with the 1st gen TSX. Both of those are some of my favorite cars of the 00's.

The 04-08 TL is really the spiritual sucessor to the 2nd gen Acura Legend. Both were very tasteful yet unique, bold and beautiful designs that IMO look a million times better than the models that replaced them.

Getting back on topic, I think a diesel VW would be a lot of fun. My aunt owns a diesel VW new Beetle and gets 40-50mpg. I'd go for a less gay diesel Golf myself, hatchbacks are a lot more handy than the conventional Jetta sedan. People claim the VW diesels are reliable, but I still don't trust a VW or Audi with some age or miles on them.

DouglasJRizzo
02-15-11, 08:41 AM
I'd love to own a Buick GnX or Grand National. But EVERY one I've seen, without fail, has been trashed and beat to within an inch of its life. I've gone to look at low milage one owner cars and seen torque induced stretch marks in the sheet metal from holeshots, as well as puddles of liquids forming underneath. The T-top equipped cars seem to fare even worse. Many if not most have been modified at some point, and that tends to make stuff worse for wear as well.

Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2's, Monte Carlo SS's, Olds 442/Hurst - they all get absolutely trashed. Many have been stolen at least once in their lives as well.

Pass..

96Fleetwood
02-15-11, 09:00 AM
Volvo S60R:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/3255761664_786bbe5800.jpg


Saab 9-3 Viggen:

http://www.saabhistory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/viggen_prototype.jpg


Mercedes 190E 2.3 16 valve Cosworth:

http://www.gun-auto-trade.jp/zaikojouhou/zaikojouhou%2051%20190E%202.5-16%20Evo%20look.JPG


Mercedes 500E (built by Porsche):

http://www.rijtesten.be/afbeeldingen/169/mercedes_500_01.jpg


Porsche 928 GTS:

http://image.motortrend.com/f/classic/future-classics-could-these-10-cars-be-collectors-items/12282711+cr1+re0+ar1/1995-porsche-928-gts.jpg


BMW 850 CSi:

http://img.infocoches.com/img/bmw/1992-850CSi/bmw_1992-850CSi-008_1.jpg



I could post many many more.. but those are a few off the top of my head.

mhamilton
02-15-11, 10:18 AM
I'd love one of the last 2 generations Jaguar Xj8-L Super8, but a supercharged Jag?... eh... makes me worry. Would definitely (and hope to) buy a Xj8-L.

Similarly, the STS-V is an intriguing car to me... SC Northstar :drool: but again, for some reason supercharged engines in a daily driver make me think twice.

I also like the new S-class, but I'm not convinced Merc worked out their quality issues from 10 years ago.

ga_etc, I don't think you'd have a bad time with the w126 series cars. They were the last of the 'real' Mercedes, very tank-like in construction and fairly easy to service. There actually wasn't all that much complexity to them, at least by comparison to the next series.

orconn
02-15-11, 01:41 PM
The car I'd love to own, but am deterred not buy maintenance cost .... but just getting competent work done on it at all, is the Citroen SM. This also goes for the CX as well. Back in the 1980's when I came very close to buying a mint condition SM there was only one guy in all of L.A. who was really competent working on Citroens. The fact the he was nearing retirement age put me off buying the car.

I am not put off with owning '93-'95 Seville STS's. I have owned a '93 for seven years with only problems that you might expect of any car. Same goes for my '95 and '02 SLS. Given the huge discount these cars bring to the table used, plus the styling and performance, having the head gasket repair a possibility is of less concern than paying a similar amount to fix a relatively minor issue on the European luxury cars. Japanese cars just don't do it for me.

There are plenty of "collector" cars I would like to won, but non would be suitable for daily driving. Also the chore of driving several cars (I've done that) to keep them running properly is not a chore I would forward to doing!

Aron9000
02-15-11, 02:27 PM
Also, 300ZX Twin Turbo:drool:

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/06/04/16/26/1996_nissan_300zx_2_dr_turbo_hatchback-pic-22367.jpeg


I've heard that the non-turbo model 300zx is actually a lot easier on your wallet and pretty reliable. I'm still skeptical about that, because there is about two competent mechanics in Nashville that know how to work on these things, so you know its $$$ to keep one on the road in tip-top shape. Which is why you see so many of these poor things ragged out by some 20 year old punk who can't afford to keep it running right.

Jesda
02-15-11, 02:30 PM
Its just VG30. Doesnt seem complicated, but the fit is pretty tight, especially TT

ga_etc
02-15-11, 03:52 PM
Yeah, they really have that 3.0 V6 shoe horned in there. Not something I would want to have to deal with. I've always like the 300ZX with the pop up lights, especially the last few years of them when they cleaned them up and made them sleeker looking. There's more room in the previous body style too.

ga_etc
02-15-11, 03:58 PM
ga_etc, I don't think you'd have a bad time with the w126 series cars. They were the last of the 'real' Mercedes, very tank-like in construction and fairly easy to service. There actually wasn't all that much complexity to them, at least by comparison to the next series.

It's not the fear of it constantly breaking, it's the fear of what it would cost to fix it when it does. I'm not at the point in my life right now where I can own one of these machines, but I will have one eventually.

This one on the local CL has been tempting me for a while. Good thing I don't have the money.
http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/2171525132.html

orconn
02-15-11, 04:11 PM
Boy, that Mercedes looks like a money pit! Who cares if it's built like a vault, and that weighs about the same, if getting a heater blower fixed costs $1500. and the rest of repairs go up from there. The only way to own a Mercedes is buy one new and get an extended "bumper to bumper" warranty. Then enjoy the prestige and exclusivity you think it brings you ....... and sell it as soon as the warranty runs out!

Mercedes-Benz should have as their slogan "Luxury it's all in your head!"

drewsdeville
02-15-11, 04:44 PM
My response to this is similar to Roo's.

Being an avid DIY'er, I honestly can't think of anything I'm actually AFRAID to own. The vehicles I hate working on most (so far) I wouldn't want to own anyway...I really don't know.

Stingroo
02-15-11, 04:58 PM
My biggest one would be an F-body. I'd love to own one, but I'd be afraid to buy it not for the maintenance costs, but because I know I'd be inclined to beat the piss out of it and it would likely get me in trouble. :hide:

ga_etc
02-15-11, 05:43 PM
Boy, that Mercedes looks like a money pit! Who cares if it's built like a vault, and that weighs about the same, if getting a heater blower fixed costs $1500. and the rest of repairs go up from there. The only way to own a Mercedes is buy one new and get an extended "bumper to bumper" warranty. Then enjoy the prestige and exclusivity you think it brings you ....... and sell it as soon as the warranty runs out!

Mercedes-Benz should have as their slogan "Luxury it's all in your head!"

For me, it's really not the Mercedes "prestige". I just like them. I think it's a timeless design and like you said, they're built like a vault.

mhamilton
02-15-11, 06:25 PM
For me, it's really not the Mercedes "prestige". I just like them. I think it's a timeless design and like you said, they're built like a vault.

And added to that, there is nothing else like sitting behind the wheel of that car, with a half-mile of gleaming hood topped by the 3-pointed star (somewhere out on the horizon lol). Much like driving an old Lincoln or Cadillac. The newer Mercs don't have that kind of feeling, unfortunately.

I'm actually starting to think I might like to have a late '80s w126. Loved the '89 black 420SEL my aunt had, would have bought that car from her if I had the money when she sold it. They sure stand out in a way the new cars never will.

ben.gators
02-15-11, 06:46 PM
This one on the local CL has been tempting me for a while. Good thing I don't have the money.
http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/2171525132.html

The last sentence says a lot about the car! "or may trade for a toyota camry"
False or true, Toyota is famous to be reliable and cheap to maintain. When someone wants to trade a MB SEL for a Toyota, you can imagine what kind of money pit the car has been and how much the owner has been pissed off by the costs that now he is trying to buy an stupid, but cheap and reliable car....

gary88
02-15-11, 07:12 PM
http://i.imgur.com/ovT2q.jpg

10-11mpg, 160-170 miles to a tank, problematic SMG transmission... but damn the S85 sounds heavenly.

Playdrv4me
02-15-11, 07:34 PM
http://i.imgur.com/ovT2q.jpg

10-11mpg, 160-170 miles to a tank, problematic SMG transmission... but damn the S85 sounds heavenly.

There were 6000 imported with manual transmissions. Start saving.

ga_etc
02-15-11, 07:36 PM
The last sentence says a lot about the car! "or may trade for a toyota camry"
False or true, Toyota is famous to be reliable and cheap to maintain. When someone wants to trade a MB SEL for a Toyota, you can imagine what kind of money pit the car has been and how much the owner has been pissed off by the costs that now he is trying to buy an stupid, but cheap and reliable car....

You're absolutely right, unfortunately. I like to try to be optimistic and think that they just have had it for a long time and want something cheaper on gas, but I'm sure it has cost them a small fortune and are just wanting to cut their loses and get rid of it, quickly. It's not working though. It's been on there for a while.


And added to that, there is nothing else like sitting behind the wheel of that car, with a half-mile of gleaming hood topped by the 3-pointed star (somewhere out on the horizon lol). Much like driving an old Lincoln or Cadillac. The newer Mercs don't have that kind of feeling, unfortunately.

I'm actually starting to think I might like to have a late '80s w126. Loved the '89 black 420SEL my aunt had, would have bought that car from her if I had the money when she sold it. They sure stand out in a way the new cars never will.

I'm sure you're right. I've deliberately never test driven one of these cars for fear I would fall in love and have to buy one. If I had one though, I would have to go all out and get the 560 SEL. It's just one of those cars, where if you're going to step up to one, you might as well go ahead and get the biggest and the baddest. Buy the right one the first time.

hueterm
02-15-11, 08:01 PM
The W126 would be only "slightly" less expensive to fix than a W140...

However, that isn't dissuading me from a 560SEC one of these days....

The E38 7 is one of the too afraid to buy, as is the E39 5 -- since those would be drivers. (The SEC above would be a toy...)

Playdrv4me
02-15-11, 08:59 PM
The E38 7 isn't really that bad. I've owned a few, plus my 2003 Range Rover which uses mostly similar running gear and the problems on all of them are about the same. My first 2000 740iL was not properly maintained so it needed valve guide seals due to a puff of white smoke when it was started cold. That was entirely due to poor maintenance rather than any fault of the car itself. Otherwise, they are known to develop a coolant leak in the valley of the engine, they like to go through valve cover gaskets, and that's really about all I remember being wrong with them. This applies specifically to the 4.4L from 1996 to 2001 (2005 in the RR). The replacement in the E6x 7 Series is no where near as bulletproof.

However, BMW's strongsuit is actually their inline sixes. So while fixing things on the 750iL V12 generally can cost twice as much, the engine is even more stout than the V8 because it's essentially just two straight sixes mated together.

ryannel2003
02-15-11, 09:21 PM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/ryannel2003/Whatever/jaguar-xfr-01.jpg
Jaguar XF
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/ryannel2003/Whatever/Jaguar_S-type_160_1024x768.jpg
Jaguar S-Type R
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/ryannel2003/Whatever/Cadillac-STS-V-07.jpg
Cadillac STS-V
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/ryannel2003/Whatever/2009-cadillac-xlr-v.jpg
Cadillac XLR-V
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/ryannel2003/Whatever/2003_Jaguar_XKR_Coupe.jpg
Jaguar XKR

Jesda
02-15-11, 09:25 PM
I very seriously thought hard about a late 90s XK8 before I bought the Seville. The timing chain issues worried me, but they're SO pretty. I thought hard about a Boxster too, but the potential catastrophic engine failures scared me off.

Playdrv4me
02-15-11, 09:44 PM
Ryan, unless you know something I don't, the XLR-V and STS-V are not particularly bad at all. Far as I know, the N* problems are all fixed in the RWD version and the STS forum is pretty damn quiet.

ryannel2003
02-15-11, 09:49 PM
It's not the motors that particularly bother me with those cars... it's the electronics and the roofs on the XLR's tend to be wonky. I'm not really up for the $3,000+ Nav unit replacements, the expensive struts, and the possibility of one of those nice LED taillights/3rd brake lights dying out 35 seconds after my warranty expires.

Playdrv4me
02-15-11, 09:53 PM
It's not the motors that particularly bother me with those cars... it's the electronics and the roofs on the XLR's tend to be wonky. I'm not really up for the $3,000+ Nav unit replacements, the expensive struts, and the possibility of one of those nice LED taillights/3rd brake lights dying out 35 seconds after my warranty expires.

Oh, except for the XLR's roof that stuff wouldn't bother me. The Nav unit for the STS is the same as in the Escalade (Supernav) and theyre out on Ebay for 600 bucks now. The one in the XLR is the even older style and those 4-600 too. Same for the LED tail lights for the XLR, DTS, STS and Escalade. They're all out there to buy as wreck take-offs or what not. The roof is the only truly scary potential repair, but that goes for any hard roof convertible really.

drewsdeville
02-15-11, 09:55 PM
Funny how most complaints in this thread are about expensive repairs on expensive cars...usually that stuff goes hand in hand. Buy a $75k car and expect to pay for the maintenance of a $75k car.

Playdrv4me
02-15-11, 10:02 PM
Funny how most complaints in this thread are about expensive repairs on expensive cars...usually that stuff goes hand in hand. Buy a $75k car and expect to pay for the maintenance of a $75k car.

Yes and no. The price of the car is not always commensurate to the cost of repairs, actually. For example, the Escalade runs about $75000.00 now, but underneath it's really no more sophisticated than your average Chevy truck. So later on, when that Escalade depreciates inevitably to 20k, it's not going to be anywhere near as expensive to maintain as the 65k S Type R Ryan pictured above, or the 55k Seville that so many unfortunate souls buy for a song and end up sorely regretting. In addition, to some people money isn't the problem anyway, but rather the constant frustration of being sidelined by frequent repairs on a car they'd rather be driving or worse, rely on on a daily basis. This is why the thread asks which ones even those of us who are willing to take some risk won't touch with a 10 foot pole.

drewsdeville
02-15-11, 10:12 PM
Yeah, but the Escalade is the new Town Car of the luxury world. Fairly primitive and unsophisticated underneath, as you mention. Not that it's any better or worse for it, but it's becoming a rare occurance overall. While there are exceptions, I believe you should generally expect high maintenance costs on an expensive high feature vehicle

Destroyer
02-16-11, 10:39 PM
None of the cars shown scare me. I'd rather put money into a car I love or always wanted instead of overpaying for a dull, lifeless new car that I really don't like much but has a "warranty". I like what I like. My next car will be a '85-'86 Porsche 928. I really like the styling of the pre '87 better.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-16-11, 10:59 PM
Speaking of expensive cars that'll eat me out of the house....

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/242897355.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1297916123&Signature=pkNZ4GK9JUwxdAebyvISDQRaKB0%3D
I saw this today, its just like mine, except this one is a 500.

Bro-Ham
02-17-11, 11:49 AM
I'm a recovering over the top irrational car addict. My fears of cars have been pretty much alleviated after owning all the British luxo-barges I've both indulged and tortured myself with. Through my recovery, the simple pleasures of my old 425 Cadillac have sufficiently tickled the automotive pleasure nodes in my brain. There are, however, a few crazy cars that I've wanted to try, despite my better judgement:

86 Maserati Quattroporte. This car is a masterpiece in my mind, one I have dreamed of owning since I was a kid, proud to know how to pronounce the name of the car in 9th grade social studies class when the lib teacher scornfully read off a list of the biggest gas guzzlers in the U.S.A. back in 1984, Quattroporte was #1 at 7 city/10 highway, Rolls-Royce was next at 8/10 - all of these cars were/are my favorites, the teacher was not. A neighbor of my aunt and uncle had two of these beauties in the early and mid 80's, one was medium brown, the other the richest dark brown I've ever seen - the guy passed us a back road one evening at a million miles an hour and I can still remember the thrill! :) It would be fun to have one of these, when operating properly, but I predict it would also be a migrane to end all migranes if I actually expected to drive one regularly - which I would. :)

--78-85 GM C-body with 5.7 Diesel. I'd love a 79 Fleetwood Brougham with a replacement "Goodwrench" diesel with the updates, even though the updated engines are probably still garbage. :) These diesels were everywhere when I was in my teens, they didn't take long to die off, however, and there is something about the sounds these cars make that I find to be really, really cool. I can only imagine how they drive, slowly but I wouldn't go so far as to say surely. I want one, but I know it would be a never ending misadventure.

--92 Mercedes-Benz 600SEL V12. I had a 92 500SEL back in 95, it was soooooooooo fast with its 322 horsepower V8, something I noticed about all the V8 power was that it still had its limits, and I ate the forbidden fruit and drove the same car with V12, it pushed the luxury car limits with incredible speed yet near silence - heaven! I particularly like the clean and bold lines of the 92-94 S-class, I'm not as much of a fan of the 95-99. When the big S-class came out in 92, it was exponentially more expensive than the 91, but that huge new grand S-class had a presence like almost no other car. One of my parents neighbors traded in his light ivory 85 300SD and came rolling in with a brand new 92 500SEL, silver, they were pretty rare to see back in the early 90's in Minnesota, and that was one of the inspiring cars of my youth that helped me to strive to own one myself.

drewsdeville
02-17-11, 11:54 AM
--78-85 GM C-body with 5.7 Diesel. I'd love a 79 Fleetwood Brougham with a replacement "Goodwrench" diesel with the updates, even though the updated engines are probably still garbage. :) These diesels were everywhere when I was in my teens, they didn't take long to die off, however, and there is something about the sounds these cars make that I find to be really, really cool. I can only imagine how they drive, slowly but I wouldn't go so far as to say surely. I want one, but I know it would be a never ending misadventure.


I'm with you on that one, and it would probably work well. Besides the headbolts, the 350 diesel's hardware was actually plenty capable; in fact, probably overkill for the application. Many of the problems stemmed from a combination of poor quality diesel fuel and the lack of a water/fuel seperator. This would eventually trash the injection pump, throwing off the timing, lifting the heads off the block from the extreme cylinder pressure.

A new engine with the addition of modern fuels and a seperator and you'd probably get yourself one hell of a reliable engine.

Bro-Ham
02-17-11, 01:59 PM
I'm with you on that one, and it would probably work well. Besides the headbolts, the 350 diesel's hardware was actually plenty capable; in fact, probably overkill for the application. Many of the problems stemmed from a combination of poor quality diesel fuel and the lack of a water/fuel seperator. This would eventually trash the injection pump, throwing off the timing, lifting the heads off the block from the extreme cylinder pressure.
A new engine with the addition of modern fuels and a seperator and you'd probably get yourself one hell of a reliable engine.

By 1983 there was a water filter, I've heard the 83-85 versions were decent. I'd still entertain trying one of the GM 5.7 diesels if it was in just the right car. :)

Aron9000
02-18-11, 12:52 AM
Bro-ham, why are you obsessed with these junky ass old diesels? I can't think of a single redeeming quality of the 70's/80's diesels put into passenger cars, other than that the Benz diesels would run FOREVER. The point of a Cadillac is to be smooth and quiet, something that 5.7 Olds diesel was not.


And as far as diesels go, I'd really like to own a 90's Dodge Cummins diesel truck. It would have to be a manual though, since Chrysler automatics are complete garbage. Those damn Cummins diesel trucks have really held their value though, anything decent with less than 200k miles on it is in the 7-12k range, anything under that price tends to be pretty junky or have a billion miles on it.

OffThaHorseCEO
02-18-11, 12:34 PM
late 90's ETC's are beautiful to me, but the headgasket issues scare me.
I will eventually own an XLR, but the top scares me on that too

Any of the 40s-50's-60's chevys or cadillacs would make me REALLY happy to own, BUT, the road to perfection would be a long expensive road im afraid to go down

Bro-Ham
02-18-11, 12:50 PM
Bro-ham, why are you obsessed with these junky ass old diesels? I can't think of a single redeeming quality of the 70's/80's diesels put into passenger cars, other than that the Benz diesels would run FOREVER. The point of a Cadillac is to be smooth and quiet, something that 5.7 Olds diesel was not.


And as far as diesels go, I'd really like to own a 90's Dodge Cummins diesel truck. It would have to be a manual though, since Chrysler automatics are complete garbage. Those damn Cummins diesel trucks have really held their value though, anything decent with less than 200k miles on it is in the 7-12k range, anything under that price tends to be pretty junky or have a billion miles on it.

Aron,

Junk to one man is a treasure to another. :)

I've never driven the GM 5.7 diesel, but I rode in my uncle's brand new 81 Olds 98 Regency diesel plenty of times during the year he owned it back in my early teens. That car had a smooth and quiet engine sound both on the outside and, especially, on the inside. I recall all the other 5.7 diesels from that era as being quite sophistocated sounding for diesels, especially compared to the European diesels of the same vintage.

I've owned about 10 or 12 Benz diesels and they ranged from clacky to quiet - none impressed me enough to stick with owning one for a long time or even acquiring another one. I think a 79 Fleetwood Brougham diesel that has been thoroughly sorted and well cared for would be quite an automotive adventure that I'm curious to try. :)

Aron9000
02-18-11, 02:29 PM
Still don't get your obsession, especially since the 425 Caddy V8 in those is superior in every way. Well except gas mileage:bang2:

I saw a really clean w123 300D at the auto parts store today, btw. Navy blue on blue vinyl, probably early 80's vintage. Even had color matching blue hubcaps that were really cool IMO. Talked to the owner, he was some German guy, it was obvious this car was his baby. He fired it up and it was suprisngly very quiet for a diesel, probably about as loud as a newer Chevy Duramax. Really took me back how quiet it was.

Anyways, to each their own on the 5.7 olds diesel.

Bro-Ham
02-18-11, 04:48 PM
Still don't get your obsession, especially since the 425 Caddy V8 in those is superior in every way. Well except gas mileage:bang2:

I saw a really clean w123 300D at the auto parts store today, btw. Navy blue on blue vinyl, probably early 80's vintage. Even had color matching blue hubcaps that were really cool IMO. Talked to the owner, he was some German guy, it was obvious this car was his baby. He fired it up and it was suprisngly very quiet for a diesel, probably about as loud as a newer Chevy Duramax. Really took me back how quiet it was.

Anyways, to each their own on the 5.7 olds diesel.

I already have a 425 which always starts and stops, a diesel would be for fun, plus it's soooo novel. Everyone has a gas Cad - how many people do you know who have diesel Cadillac? I think it would be beyond entertaining. :)

I had a whole ton of diesel 5 cylinder 80's MB's, great cars in their own way, a bit germanic and boring. I had some newer Benz diesels too, including a 97 E300 I bought brand new, and also a 91 350SDL which was quite nice, but they never lit my heart on fire. Old Cadillacs are over the top and classic all-American with their high style interior designer designed interiors and powerful modern low/long styling. :) I'd drive a super nice old Cad any day - they really make a statement. :)

orconn
02-18-11, 05:19 PM
^^^ Glad to hear someone else voice the opinion that Mercedes cars of the '70s and '80s were boring! This was the consensus of many of my friends who, while they wouldn't have minded having a Mercedes, just couldn't get over their slowness (unless you sprung for the over $100,000 super cars) and downright boring handling. The mechanical clatter they made (gas cars included) did nothing to add to their charm. It was for these reasons that many of us chose the far more satisfying Jaguars of the day (despite their reliability problems). BMW during this period had some cars that handled well and were fun to drive, although they could by no stretch of the imagination be considered "luxury" cars.

If one looked at who was driving a Mercedes along Wilshire Blvd. in the seventies and eighties, the S Class cars were driven by men and the equivalent of the E Class cars were driven by women. The overall performance improved in the nineties with the addition of V-* engines, but you still had shell the "big bucks" to get a Mercedes that would get out of its' own way. And the diesels were downright pitiful when it came to acceleration and coping with the on and off ramps of the L.A. Freeway system.

Bro-Ham
02-18-11, 06:18 PM
I don't care if cars are a little slow, as long as I can get to cocktail hour on time. :)

drewsdeville
02-18-11, 07:01 PM
^^^Good bumper sticker for some of those old slow luxo-boats.

Playdrv4me
02-18-11, 08:06 PM
^^^ Glad to hear someone else voice the opinion that Mercedes cars of the '70s and '80s were boring! This was the consensus of many of my friends who, while they wouldn't have minded having a Mercedes, just couldn't get over their slowness (unless you sprung for the over $100,000 super cars) and downright boring handling. The mechanical clatter they made (gas cars included) did nothing to add to their charm. It was for these reasons that many of us chose the far more satisfying Jaguars of the day (despite their reliability problems). BMW during this period had some cars that handled well and were fun to drive, although they could by no stretch of the imagination be considered "luxury" cars.

If one looked at who was driving a Mercedes along Wilshire Blvd. in the seventies and eighties, the S Class cars were driven by men and the equivalent of the E Class cars were driven by women. The overall performance improved in the nineties with the addition of V-* engines, but you still had shell the "big bucks" to get a Mercedes that would get out of its' own way. And the diesels were downright pitiful when it came to acceleration and coping with the on and off ramps of the L.A. Freeway system.

Mercs of that era were cars to be seen in above all else. To this extent, I'd say they achieved their goal.

Stingroo
02-18-11, 08:23 PM
I don't find them attractive at all. My dad's cousin owns two different ones, they do nothing for me. I don't even know what they are. I know one is an SL of some sort (SEL? I don't know) but they look like turds to me. :hide: :flamesuiton:

Playdrv4me
02-18-11, 08:32 PM
Nothing wrong with that, I can hardly imagine there's many Merc enthusiasts (except for Mike, but he has a whole army of cool cars) that would be into wagons either. For most however, those old Mercs represent a classic period for modern luxury motoring. They're just well... dog ass slow. No getting around it.

My 1987 560SEC took about a day to get to 60 but it got looks the whole way there.

Aron9000
02-19-11, 12:44 AM
^ Even a 560 SEC was slow??? Really? I thought the 80's cars with the V8's would've been pretty quick, especially something with an elephantine 5.6 liters of displacement.

cadillac kevin
02-19-11, 01:23 AM
a car I would love to own is a cosworth vega. I dont care if the motor is the largest 4 cyl turd GM ever made, the rest of the car is cool. originally it was supposed to have a full built racing motor that put out close to 200hp with a turbocharger. replace that with a 100hp (on a good day) chevy 4 banger, and you get a noisy go kart with a cool body kit. too bad too, the cosworth vega was a cool car when cal wade created it, but after cost cutting by GM , it became a turd on wheels and still cost as much as a vette.

Playdrv4me
02-19-11, 06:23 AM
^ Even a 560 SEC was slow??? Really? I thought the 80's cars with the V8's would've been pretty quick, especially something with an elephantine 5.6 liters of displacement.

It wasn't slow for its time, I guess? But with the cars I had already owned up to that point it just felt like a good old powerful car, but not really "quick". It has roughly equal hp to the Expedition and supposedly hit 60 in about 7 seconds, but it sure didn't feel that quick.

orconn
02-19-11, 01:16 PM
^ Even a 560 SEC was slow??? Really? I thought the 80's cars with the V8's would've been pretty quick, especially something with an elephantine 5.6 liters of displacement.

Remember the first series Sevilles had 5.7 litre V-8s and it was slow, put a "built like a bank vault" heavy Mercedes body over a small V-8 and you are dreaming if you think it will get to 60 mph in 7 seconds! But as Playdrive pointed out you sure will look "rich" getting (and the folks looking on will have a long time to admire you!) there. Lesser Mercedes that the 560S variations took even longer to get to speed!

mhamilton
02-19-11, 01:31 PM
Those sedans had 2nd gear start (I thought the SEC were 1st gear start, maybe only the later years), you would have to put your foot to the floor to get 1st gear. That can be bypassed, though.

The 420 was not slow, I can't imagine the 560 being slow. They weren't race cars, but much faster than the Cadillacs of the era. SOHC all-aluminum engines, relatively high compression, in the neighborhood of 200-250 hp. That changed completely if you got an AMG tuned engine with headers and true dual exhaust.

orconn
02-19-11, 02:02 PM
Those sedans had 2nd gear start (I thought the SEC were 1st gear start, maybe only the later years), you would have to put your foot to the floor to get 1st gear. That can be bypassed, though.

The 420 was not slow, I can't imagine the 560 being slow. They weren't race cars, but much faster than the Cadillacs of the era. SOHC all-aluminum engines, relatively high compression, in the neighborhood of 200-250 hp. That changed completely if you got an AMG tuned engine with headers and true dual exhaust.

Yes the "big" engined V-8s were faster than Cadillacs of the the 80's, but they also cost in the neighborhood of $50,000, which would put them over $100,000. today. by the way those "high performance" aluminum OHC v-8s were also prone to head gasket problems, sound familiar? Having cut my driving teeth on expensive Mercedes (1956 300D "Adenauer" Mercedes) and having been task with driving relatives and associates 70's, 80's and 90's Mercedes while at the same time owning and regularly driving cars from other makers I've come to feel Mercedes are highly overrated for performance and overall driving experience. But I have to agree that a Mercedes automobile is still tops when it comes to ownership prestige! What the hell, many hundreds of dictators around the world can't be wrong!

Playdrv4me
02-19-11, 02:46 PM
Those sedans had 2nd gear start (I thought the SEC were 1st gear start, maybe only the later years), you would have to put your foot to the floor to get 1st gear. That can be bypassed, though.

The 420 was not slow, I can't imagine the 560 being slow. They weren't race cars, but much faster than the Cadillacs of the era. SOHC all-aluminum engines, relatively high compression, in the neighborhood of 200-250 hp. That changed completely if you got an AMG tuned engine with headers and true dual exhaust.

The AMG tuned stuff is a COMPLETELY different ballpark, and you definitely PAID for it (in fact a 560SEC AMG still brings HEAVY coin today in the right condition).

mhamilton
02-19-11, 05:08 PM
Yes the "big" engined V-8s were faster than Cadillacs of the the 80's, but they also cost in the neighborhood of $50,000, which would put them over $100,000. today. by the way those "high performance" aluminum OHC v-8s were also prone to head gasket problems, sound familiar? Having cut my driving teeth on expensive Mercedes (1956 300D "Adenauer" Mercedes) and having been task with driving relatives and associates 70's, 80's and 90's Mercedes while at the same time owning and regularly driving cars from other makers I've come to feel Mercedes are highly overrated for performance and overall driving experience. But I have to agree that a Mercedes automobile is still tops when it comes to ownership prestige! What the hell, many hundreds of dictators around the world can't be wrong!

They also have major issues with timing chain tensioners... 100k mile replacement interval. Not sure why Merc (all '80s) and Jag (late '90s, early '00s) had such problems with the same style nylon tensioners that Ford and GM used without issue. Timing chains on the 380s were a problem for some years.

I think the HG issue was mostly the inline 6 gas engine. The HG issues on those V8s was not nearly as common as the N*. Most times the head bolt threads do not disintegrate, bolts can be re torqued, and of course being RWD it's a trivial job to timesert in the car compared with our N*s.

orconn
02-19-11, 05:21 PM
They also have major issues with timing chain tensioners... 100k mile replacement interval. Not sure why Merc (all '80s) and Jag (late '90s, early '00s) had such problems with the same style nylon tensioners that Ford and GM used without issue. Timing chains on the 380s were a problem for some years.

I think the HG issue was mostly the inline 6 gas engine. The HG issues on those V8s was not nearly as common as the N*. Most times the head bolt threads do not disintegrate, bolts can be re torqued, and of course being RWD it's a trivial job to timesert in the car compared with our N*s.

Head gasket on a rear drive Mercedes may be much easier than an N*, but at Mercedes prices probably not much of a savings.

mhamilton
02-19-11, 09:47 PM
That's certainly true... if you're relying on someone else to maintain an old (or new) Mercedes, then forget about it lol. Your Mercedes mechanic will be driving a more expensive car than you! :)

DouglasJRizzo
02-20-11, 05:20 PM
Nothing wrong with that, I can hardly imagine there's many Merc enthusiasts (except for Mike, but he has a whole army of cool cars) that would be into wagons either. For most however, those old Mercs represent a classic period for modern luxury motoring. They're just well... dog ass slow. No getting around it.

My 1987 560SEC took about a day to get to 60 but it got looks the whole way there.

Some time ago, I had the occasion to spend the day with a early 90s 500 SEL sedan - very clean, low milage (about 20k) vehicle. It was as slow as January Molasses. I had blue haired old ladies smoking me off of stop lights in their Lincoln town cars, guys in beat up Jeep CJ's passing me like I shifted into reverse and traffic in general piling up behind me. All this while mashing the accelerator into the carpeting. Everything about that car was clunky and heavy handed. I was more than glad to give it back.

I had driven a '78 MB 450 SEL sedan and there was a WORLD of difference between the two cars. The '78 was far more sprightly, and nimble.