: U.S. Government: No electronic flaws in Toyotas



Lord Cadillac
02-10-11, 10:47 AM
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Electronic flaws weren't to blame for the reports of sudden, unintended acceleration that led to the recall of thousands of Toyota vehicles, the government said Tuesday.

Some of the acceleration cases could have been caused by mechanical defects -- sticking accelerator pedals and gas pedals that can become trapped in floor mats -- that have been dealt with in recalls, the government said.

And in some cases, investigators suggested, drivers simply hit the gas when they meant to press the brake.

"We feel that Toyota vehicles are safe to drive," declared Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

The investigation bolstered Toyota's contentions that electronic gremlins were not to blame and its series of recalls -- involving more than 12 million vehicles globally since fall 2009 -- had directly addressed the safety concerns.

Transportation officials, assisted by engineers with NASA, said the 10-month study of Toyota vehicles concluded there was no electronic cause of unintended high-speed acceleration. The study, launched at the request of Congress, responded to consumer complaints that flawed electronics could be the culprit behind complaints that led to Toyota's spate of recalls.

Read more... (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Government-No-electronic-apf-3420619474.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=)

...and more, if you'd like... (http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110208/RETAIL05/110209749/1143)

I wish there was a way to figure out how many idiots who slamed into something head-first blamed the Toyota Corporation for their mishap...

Submariner409
02-10-11, 10:54 AM
I'm not informed enough to let Toyota completely off the hook, but it's entirely possible, here in the ol' U of S, to find an ambulance chaser of a "lawyer" who will sue anyone for anything, and Toyota might have been dragged into that category.

Jesda
02-10-11, 10:59 AM
Toyota was the only major automaker to report a U.S. sales decline in 2010.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-nasa-20110209,0,6788233,full.story


WHEN PEDALS STICK -- a new special on Fox


If the electronics are fine, the mechanical issues remained, which they addressed by securing floor mats and recalling the pedals.


What is the problem that could cause accelerators to stick and led to the recall?
The issue involves a friction device in the pedal designed to provide the proper “feel” by adding resistance and making the pedal steady and stable.

This friction device includes a “shoe” that rubs against an adjoining surface during normal pedal operation. Due to the materials used, wear and environmental conditions, these surfaces may, over time, begin to stick and release instead of operating smoothly. In some cases, friction could increase to a point that the pedal is slow to return to the idle position or, in rare cases, the pedal sticks, leaving the throttle partially open.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/FAQ-for-Sticking-Accelerator-Pedal-152196.aspx


And you can bet that lawyers are exaggerating for a pay day.

C&C
02-11-11, 09:40 AM
Some contend that all incidences were 'driver error' (as is generally accepted of the outcome of the witchhunt for the Audi 5000 years ago). Most notible were that no manual shifting cars were ever reported to have this problem and secondarily the only reports were from either the U.S. or Canada.................................something to think about anyway.

I'm no Toyota lover, and the investigatioin did unearth other Toyota mishandlings, but I think the unintended acceleration was a bust; electronically or mechanically.

Lord Cadillac
02-11-11, 11:05 AM
What bothers me is how a company who hasn't done anything wrong can have their reputation destroyed because a bunch of liars. "Oh, I can't believe it! I smashed head first into that poor old lady but it wasn't my fault! It was "company X's" fault. I swear!" And that's it.. If it can happen to Toyota, it can happen to any company. I don't like it.

The Tony Show
02-11-11, 12:02 PM
The media and NHTSA are doing a 180 and suddenly making this out like Toyota has done nothing wrong, when in fact it couldn't be further from the truth. Toyota was never accused by anyone of having electronic problems in the throttle- the NHTSA voluntarily decided to investigate the possibility after it came to light how many other critical safety issues existed on Toyotas. Now everyone's acting like all the floormat and gas pedal recall hoopla was a witch hunt and Toyota is the victim, but this is actually nothing more than a non-news story about the NHTSA disproving their own hypothetical theory.

FACTS

-Toyota still had a widespread mechanical pedal failure issue that they hid from the public, as admitted in their own company emails (the exact phase used by a Toyota executive was "the time to hide on this is over", which means at one point they were deliberately hiding it). People died as a result.

-Toyota still had a bad design with less than 1'' of clearance between the floorpan and gas pedal that allowed mats to become trapped. People died as a result.

-Toyota still has ongoing litigation regarding catastrophic frame rust on their Tacoma trucks which can cause the frame to crack in half or the spare tire to be ejected behind the vehicle while driving down the highway.

-Toyota is still being accused by their own former attorney of destroying documents showing they knew certain vehicles' roofs would crush in a rollover. People died or were left paralyzed as a result.

Sorry, but I'm not buying the "Oh, poor Toyota story". The NHTSA had a suspicion that there might be problems beyond those that had already been proven, but their own investigation disproved the theory- that's all. This is no way absolving Toyota of all the tragedy that resulted from their confirmed negligence in other areas, and I still won't ever do business with them as a result.

ben.gators
02-11-11, 12:25 PM
The media and NHTSA are doing a 180 and suddenly making this out like Toyota has done nothing wrong, when in fact it couldn't be further from the truth. Toyota was never accused by anyone of having electronic problems in the throttle- the NHTSA voluntarily decided to investigate the possibility after it came to light how many other critical safety issues existed on Toyotas. Now everyone's acting like all the floormat and gas pedal recall hoopla was a witch hunt and Toyota is the victim, but this is actually nothing more than a non-news story about the NHTSA disproving their own hypothetical theory.

FACTS

-Toyota still had a widespread mechanical pedal failure issue that they hid from the public, as admitted in their own company emails (the exact phase used by a Toyota executive was "the time to hide on this is over", which means at one point they were deliberately hiding it). People died as a result.

-Toyota still had a bad design with less than 1' of clearance between the floorpan and gas pedal that allowed mats to become trapped. People died as a result.

-Toyota still has ongoing litigation regarding catastrophic frame rust on their Tacoma trucks which can cause the frame to crack in half or the spare tire to be ejected behind the vehicle while driving down the highway.

-Toyota is still being accused by their own former attorney of destroying documents showing they knew certain vehicles' roofs would crush in a rollover. People died or were left paralyzed as a result.

Sorry, but I'm not buying the "Oh, poor Toyota story". The NHTSA had a suspicion that there might be problems beyond those that had already been proven, but their own investigation disproved the theory- that's all. This is no way absolving Toyota of all the tragedy that resulted from their confirmed negligence in other areas, and I still won't ever do business with them as a result.

I second this... well said....

The Tony Show
02-11-11, 12:43 PM
It's literally infuriating- every media outlet is acting like all the stories about Toyota over the last year are false, with one douche from Bloomberg even going so far as to tweet that the media owes Toyota an apology. For what? Reporting the fact that they covered up safety issues and only issued a recall after enough people died and the public started to get wind of it?

It's amazing to me how ignorant most people are to the details of Toyota's despicable safety record on this issue. They see this new story and go "Oh look- there was nothing wrong with Toyotas all along!" :nono:

dkozloski
02-11-11, 12:52 PM
'=feet
"=inches.

ben.gators
02-11-11, 12:56 PM
And the sad point is that people's opinion are absolutely affected and directed by media and spontaneous changes of media reports....

Yesterday: Media: Toyota suffers from unwanted acceleration problem=> people: F$%ck Toyota
Today: Media: No electronic Flaws in Toyota=> People: Oh, poor Toyota, Toyota was absolutely innocent... F%ck drivers and liars

The Raven
02-11-11, 12:59 PM
Doesn't matter at this point. Toyota's reputation is destroyed, as seen by the fact that they were the ONLY automaker to actually see a sales decline overall last year. Toyota used to be the company that seemed invincible - didn't matter how bad things were, their cars always sold. While others saw sales drop, Toyota kept gaining ground. For them to go from that to actually LOSING sales in a time when everyone else was gaining ground, that shows how HUGE this was.

And I agree, they totally deserved it. I knew for years they were hiding stuff. Not that i'm some insider or super-brain, but it was obvious to me and anyone else with a mind to think for themselves that the only way Toyota could have had the kind of quality record they had was to blatantly cover up problems. No car is perfect, and if you know the Japanese culture like I do, none of this information that has come to light should be of ANY surprise.

This "fall of Toyota" will be looked back on in the future as the tipping point, the point in time where GM and Ford started on their path to becoming the quality standard. I've been saying for years that this was coming, that the status quo was going to change. The future will see America leading the world in automotive innovation, with other countries clamoring to import our cars, instead of what we are used to now, with Americans paying ridiculous premiums to drive imports. This has already happened in China, and will continue to spread as both Ford and GM continue to deliver world-class cars with each new generation.

ben.gators
02-11-11, 01:02 PM
What bothers me is how a company who hasn't done anything wrong can have their reputation destroyed because a bunch of liars.

Anything wrong? and it was all lie? Seriously?

drewsdeville
02-11-11, 01:03 PM
Doesn't matter at this point. Toyota's reputation is destroyed, as seen by the fact that they were the ONLY automaker to actually see a sales decline overall last year. Toyota used to be the company that seemed invincible - didn't matter how bad things were, their cars always sold. While others saw sales drop, Toyota kept gaining ground. For them to go from that to actually LOSING sales in a time when everyone else was gaining ground, that shows how HUGE this was.
.

Naw. Did it hurt their reputation? Yeah, a little, temporarily. Did it destroy it? Certainly not.

The Tony Show
02-11-11, 01:44 PM
Look at how quickly everyone has fallen under the impression that they did nothing wrong and are the victim- they'll recover from this quickly, because people are stupid, have short memories, and always seem to give imports a pass on these things.

Just another example of that mysterious phenomenon. Whether it's badge engineering, safety problems, human rights violations, wages or quality, an American manufacturer needs 30 years to recover in the public eye, while the imports get either a free pass or forgotten about in 6 months.

The Tony Show
02-11-11, 01:45 PM
'=feet
"=inches.

appaRently mY finGer didn"T hIt the SHift keY.

Playdrv4me
02-11-11, 03:03 PM
I do think that the way the government handled this was poor. There should have been more clarification when the statement was issued that while an electronic cause was not identified for the acceleration claims, it did not necessarily rule out other causes.

That said, I think Toyota's recent sales woes owe as much to OBVIOUS declining quality over the past few years as they do to unintended acceleration. Once they get their act together their sales will come back.

The Tony Show
02-11-11, 03:42 PM
The Government's announcement should have been something to the extent of "Based on our findings, there are no additional causes for unintended acceleration beyond what has already been found- mechanical failure of the pedal or floormat entrapment"

Worded the way it is, and the media's subsequent spinning of it with headlines such as "Government finds Toyota not at fault for acceleration", people are getting the impression Toyota was never at fault for anything in this.

Lord Cadillac
02-11-11, 03:52 PM
It's a shame because people with little time to do their own research, which is most of us, get a twisted idea of everything going on around them (me). I never finish a day without putting off work until the following day. This happens every day and by the end of the week, I have plenty to do the following week that I could not finish the week before. When Danielle falls to sleep at night, I get out my laptop and continue working..

This is one of the reasons I've become a very unemotional person. I'd be better off listening to nobody and nothing and just not caring about anything.


The Government's announcement should have been something to the extent of "Based on our findings, there are no additional causes for unintended acceleration beyond what has already been found- mechanical failure of the pedal or floormat entrapment"

Worded the way it is, and the media's subsequent spinning of it with headlines such as "Government finds Toyota not at fault for acceleration", people are getting the impression Toyota was never at fault for anything in this.

billc83
02-11-11, 05:48 PM
NormV must be pissed...

The Raven
02-11-11, 10:27 PM
Naw. Did it hurt their reputation? Yeah, a little, temporarily. Did it destroy it? Certainly not.

Disagreed.

This was a HUGE hit for Toyota. Up until all this came to light, Toyota was perfect. They could do no wrong. Now they are human. Add to that the fact that GM and Ford are actually being seen for the first time, by the general public, as quality automakers. Both GM and Ford are VERY formidable opponents for Toyota, as they have the installed customer base and volume near or at the same level as Toyota. Toyota cannot afford to lose the ground they had gained, and now they are losing it and more.

Stingroo
02-11-11, 10:47 PM
NormV must be pissed...

I haven't LOL'd that hard in weeks. Thank you sir.

Playdrv4me
02-11-11, 11:11 PM
NormV must be pissed...

Oh GOD...

Jesda
02-11-11, 11:46 PM
Toyota is eating it right now because of the Yen and because of declining US market share.

This affects Toyota more deeply than it would have affected Ford or GM, had they endured the same ordeal. Toyota sells cars and trucks in SPITE of their oddball looks and uninteresting driving experiences. A small dent in its stellar reputation gives it nothing to fall back on.


TOKYO — Toyota reported a 39 percent slide in quarterly profit but raised its full-year forecasts for earnings and sales, citing a global auto recovery.

The results show a mixed picture for the world's biggest automaker, which is enjoying booming sales in high-growth markets in Asia, Africa and South America, while facing lingering worries about quality lapses in the key U.S. market.

The one area where Toyota has been stumbling is the U.S., where it has been losing market share because of worries about the quality of its cars after the massive series of recalls that began in 2009.

The recalls, which have ballooned to more than 12 million vehicles around the world, include sticky gas pedals, faulty floor mats, braking software glitches and other defects.

Toyota Motor Corp. reported Tuesday a fiscal third quarter profit of 93.63 billion yen ($1.1 billion), down from 153 billion yen in the October-December quarter of 2009.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41468567/ns/business-autos/

orconn
02-12-11, 01:05 PM
The haughtiness that Toyota management developed over the years toward the consumers in their overseas market place deserved a comeuppance. The quality of their cars had been declining for several years and the company's initial response to safety problems occurring with their cars showed the true arrogance of Toyota's Japanese management. The subsequent discovery of documents showing the company's disdain for compliance with American regulations should have brought even greater fines. The lawsuits which Toyota faces in the next years will certainly keep Toyota's disdain for American lives in public view for sometime to come. Whether American car buyers pay attention is another question.

EChas3
02-12-11, 05:10 PM
In no way am I defending or accusing Toyota but the whole idea of a government agency making public statements about certain products is offensive to me. It is simply not possible to truthfully proclaim there are "no electronic flaws in Toyotas". Not one out of millions of cars? Who are they kidding?

They don't know. Even if the designs and representative samples pass examination, cars are subject to far more rigorous conditions in the real world than can be reproduced in a laboratory.

Some people are obsessed by the ideal that all risk can be eliminated. Most of the drivers affected have no-one to blame but themselves. Nowadays, few want to admit that they themselves are the weakest link in the chain. It must be someone else's fault.

Tort reform would help. If the losers in a civil suit had to pay the costs of the winners, court dockets wouldn't be so full and shysters would be less likely to chase ambulances.