: Cadillac, Chrysler, Saab are giving their cars away.



Jesda
02-02-11, 06:42 AM
Comparing all brands, Subaru spent the least in January 2011 at $548, followed by Porsche at $656 per vehicle sold. At the other end of the spectrum, Saab spent the most $8,124 followed by Cadillac at $5,641 per vehicle sold. Relative to their vehicle prices, Saab and Chrysler spent the most, 19.9 percent and 15.6 percent of sticker price, respectively; while Porsche spent 0.75 percent and Subaru spent 2.1 percent.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110201006643/en/Edmunds.com-Reports-True-Cost-IncentivesSM-Car-Bargains

Chrysler's lineup is stale and the brand no longer has any crossovers (Pacifica), SUVs (Aspen), wagons (PT Cruiser), or sports cars (Crossfire). The Sebring has always been terrible and the 300 is beginning to age.

Saab lost a lot of its dealer network last year because GM disallowed Saabs from being sold in showrooms with other GM brands. Also, brand's the top-selling vehicle, the 9-3, is now 9 years old.

So what's Cadillac's excuse? Although a luxury brand like Cadillac has higher profit margins from which to pay for incentives, the number is quite high relative to its competition.

DouglasJRizzo
02-02-11, 09:22 AM
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110201006643/en/Edmunds.com-Reports-True-Cost-IncentivesSM-Car-Bargains

Chrysler's lineup is stale and the brand no longer has any crossovers (Pacifica), SUVs (Aspen), wagons (PT Cruiser), or sports cars (Crossfire). The Sebring has always been terrible and the 300 is beginning to age.

Saab lost a lot of its dealer network last year because GM disallowed Saabs from being sold in showrooms with other GM brands. Also, brand's the top-selling vehicle, the 9-3, is now 9 years old.

So what's Cadillac's excuse? Although a luxury brand like Cadillac has higher profit margins from which to pay for incentives, the number is quite high relative to its competition.

I agree with you on Chrysler. There's little there to make you want to buy. Saab is quirky. Before GM had them they were a niche vehicle. Even with GM's ownership, there's not much for mainstream buyers.

Cadillac has its own problems. There's little reason to spend big $ on what they have. Same for Lincoln. Porsche has what I call the "drool factor". Even though most Porsche's can easily be trumped by Mustangs and Camaros, they have the ability to make buyers drool. A cachet. Cadillac and Lincoln have lost this.

Chrysler is unique in its problems. The 300 is getting old and the others are re-hashes of lesser vehicles. Even the fabled "hemi" nameplate can't help.

The problem I see with MOST car companies is that they are victims of corporate thinking and bean counting. They're not building cars that people really want. It's too easy to build front drive garbage or keep a rear drive sedan years past where it should be without a restyle or addition. You can't get a station wagon, its nearly impossible to get a full size rear drive coupe. There's just NOTHING to get buyers hungry. The few hits out there are getting long in the tooth. Companies don't want to spend the big $$ to redesign cars and build really cool stuff.

The Raven
02-02-11, 10:54 AM
Yet Cadillac's sales are growing at record pace. They are up 49% year-over-year as of last month. CTS and SRX are carrying the brand, which leads me to believe that once XTS and ATS show up, Cadillac should be all set. It's funny how sales are in no way dependent on what enthusiasts and reviewers consider to be "good cars". The DTS is still selling quite well (over 1000 units last month), and the STS, despite being world's nicer, sold about a third of that.

Right now GM is suffering through the lull in new product created by the bankruptcy...the fact that sales are still this good, despite all the stale product, is REALLY good news.

Playdrv4me
02-02-11, 02:33 PM
I think Cadillac has a problem with perception of value for dollar and artificially inflated MSRPs making their cars appear to compete in a strata higher than they actually do. Case in point, the 79,000.00 STS-V. Did they ever expect that anyone was going to pay FULL on sticker for that car? Highly unlikely, yet because they wanted it to compete with the E55/63 and M5, which were bringing 80 to 90k and OVER sticker in some cases, it couldn't be priced much lower or it would have been perceived as "cheap". Same goes for the CTS-V Coupe, which tops out somewhere around 72k. During the fuel spike of 2008 I heard rumors that some dealers were letting fully loaded Escalades go for as much as $20,000.00 off sticker, and most were ADVERTISING at LEAST 10k off with no negotiation at all. On the surface a 20,000.00 discount certainly seems like giving away the farm, but at the end of the day those lucky enough to get that amount of discounting were still paying well over $50,000.00 for a vehicle that costs no where near that to produce, market or stock.

This is a double edged sword, because Cadillac can afford to heavily incentivize an inflated MSRP by thousands of dollars making the customer THINK they're getting a great deal and thereby moving units... Of course the flip-side is that relative to its rivals, Cadillac is then viewed as having to make drastic reductions on each car which waters down the brand.

orconn
02-02-11, 03:10 PM
^^^ Playdrive makes a good point here. While I also feel that European makers price their "limited edition" performance cars at artificially high prices also, I do agree that Cadillacs are priced to allow substantial discounts on their purchase. Mercedes has had a policy, almost from their reintroduction after the Second World War of pricing their cars at a premium to ensure their "prestige" value in the American marketplace...and it has worked very well for them. Cadillac should produce a truly premium car and price it accordingly! I guess they can play games with their "entry level" cars, but they will never again the luxury status they once held by producing overpriced upper mid level cars.

Let's face when all is said and done, Cadillacs are much better buys used that new!

The Raven
02-02-11, 06:53 PM
Let's face when all is said and done, Cadillacs are much better buys used that new!

That can really be said for any luxury brand. What you are buying with all these cars is a name. The car only costs a bit more to produce, but what people want is what comes along with the brand name. That's why they pay. They are willing to pay for BMW and Mercedes Benz because of the history and reputation and status that comes with them. Cadillac has about 50% of that. It's definitely a prestigious name, but it doesn't have the longstanding reputation. It's going to take another 10 years or so of great cars before the Cadillac name can really be placed next to the likes of BMW and MB.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-02-11, 08:09 PM
Chrysler's product line-up looked great when the Challenger came out. They had a much wider model line than before, with all of the models Jesda mentioned still being in production. The only Chrysler product in 2011 that's truly desirable or cool is the 300, and that's getting worn out and long in the tooth now. Come to think of it, Chrysler only offers three different models: 200, 300 and the Town & Country. Sad huh? It appears to me also, that in 2011, Chrysler doesn't even really have a clear identity of what it wants to be. I always thought of Chrysler as an entry level luxury car, much as the same way a Buick is, but even Buick is getting far more desirable and much more widespread than the Chrysler brand is.

Saab has always been a quirky niche vehicle, and that'll never be a high selling brand, no matter what anybody does. They should stick to their niche and appease all the people who really like Saab without worrying about setting the showrooms on fire or winning all sorts of new customers. People who buy Saabs generally buy them because they're Saabs and likely won't cross shop a Lexus and a Jaguar.

Cadillac's last truly awesome new entry into the market place was the CTS, and all it's variants. The DTS is long in the tooth (but still selling well), and the STS was mainly ignored in it's overly long life. The Escalade and it's variants still sell well and aren't quite due for an update yet. Cadillac needs another convertible or a flagship car to really draw attention to the brand.

DouglasJRizzo
02-02-11, 08:43 PM
Saab has always been a quirky niche vehicle, and that'll never be a high selling brand, no matter what anybody does. They should stick to their niche and appease all the people who really like Saab without worrying about setting the showrooms on fire or winning all sorts of new customers. People who buy Saabs generally buy them because they're Saabs and likely won't cross shop a Lexus and a Jaguar.

Cadillac's last truly awesome new entry into the market place was the CTS, and all it's variants. The DTS is long in the tooth (but still selling well), and the STS was mainly ignored in it's overly long life. The Escalade and it's variants still sell well and aren't quite due for an update yet. Cadillac needs another convertible or a flagship car to really draw attention to the brand.

I agree whole heartedly on Saab. It's really just to "odd" for most folk but there are those out there who truly love them.

I remember back in the glory days where most Cadillac dealers would, even in the dead of winter, put an Eldorado Convertible right smack in the window with the top down. Nearly every dealer did this. It was a magnet to my eye.

thebigjimsho
02-03-11, 09:33 AM
So what's Cadillac's excuse? Although a luxury brand like Cadillac has higher profit margins from which to pay for incentives, the number is quite high relative to its competition.
You are a hater. I punch Cadillac haters right in the mouth. :thepan:

Jesda
02-03-11, 02:25 PM
You are a hater. I punch Cadillac haters right in the mouth. :thepan:

Cadillac lovers don't skip meets.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zp_MFZdEzhc/TPK2FXdB6WI/AAAAAAAAPxY/eVLERl-O24w/s1600/you_got_served.jpg

thebigjimsho
02-03-11, 02:30 PM
Cadillac lovers don't skip meets.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zp_MFZdEzhc/TPK2FXdB6WI/AAAAAAAAPxY/eVLERl-O24w/s1600/you_got_served.jpg
Don't flatter yourself. You don't control me. And your reading skills need honing...

Jesda
02-03-11, 03:50 PM
I've got a rollaway bed waiting for you in Chicago, big jim no show.

thebigjimsho
02-03-11, 04:03 PM
I thought you people were filled with hospitality...

GizmoQ
02-03-11, 04:44 PM
I thought you people were filled with hospitality...

Oooooo, did he really go there? :hmm:

orconn
02-03-11, 04:52 PM
Does "you people" mean what I think it means?

Stingroo
02-03-11, 05:13 PM
Hey now, leave the yellow fellow out of this.

Jesda
02-03-11, 05:30 PM
I thought you people were filled with hospitality...

False rumor :histeric:

thebigjimsho
02-03-11, 08:57 PM
Oooooo, did he really go there? :hmm:


Does "you people" mean what I think it means?
Damn straight!






































Frackin' Saab drivers...

Jesda
02-03-11, 09:29 PM
http://permanentbadmood.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kottbullar.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-03-11, 11:01 PM
I thought you people were filled with hostility...

fixed.

thebigjimsho
02-03-11, 11:39 PM
http://permanentbadmood.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kottbullar.jpg
Saabs and Ikea.

orconn
02-03-11, 11:44 PM
http://permanentbadmood.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kottbullar.jpg

Swedish meatballs, lingonberries and (?) .... can another Abba attack be far off?

thebigjimsho
02-04-11, 04:29 PM
Jesda is like the yellower version of my brother. Him and his wife live for Ikea and drives a Saab 9-2X Aero...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-04-11, 07:43 PM
My cousin's husband has a Saab 9-2x as well. I call it the Saabaru.

orconn
02-04-11, 11:15 PM
"Saabaru" vay-lee crevah, Thad-san!

ThumperPup
02-05-11, 01:51 AM
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110201006643/en/Edmunds.com-Reports-True-Cost-IncentivesSM-Car-Bargains

Chrysler's lineup is stale and the brand no longer has any crossovers (Pacifica), SUVs (Aspen), wagons (PT Cruiser), or sports cars (Crossfire). The Sebring has always been terrible and the 300 is beginning to age.

Saab lost a lot of its dealer network last year because GM disallowed Saabs from being sold in showrooms with other GM brands. Also, brand's the top-selling vehicle, the 9-3, is now 9 years old.

So what's Cadillac's excuse? Although a luxury brand like Cadillac has higher profit margins from which to pay for incentives, the number is quite high relative to its competition.

getting in on this a bit late here but
yeah i think the pacifica didnt last cause chrysler was trying to get into a all luxury smaller suv or cross over and that didnt last
so it didnt last
there was not much of a demand for them i think the most sold where to rental car companys but those things sure d seem to keep value
i wanted to buy one last summer when i was looking at cars and 2005s and 06s that where base models where still selling for 14k up here in Ohio

I think what was it when Mercedes bought chrysler or soemthing i forget what that deal was years back but they are the ones who started with the pacific tried to make it to mouch like a M-class but only for chrysler

thebigjimsho
02-05-11, 01:02 PM
My cousin's husband has a Saab 9-2x as well. I call it the Saabaru.
That is quite the common term for that car...