: Cadillac is focusing on BMW and Audi...



Lord Cadillac
01-31-11, 12:52 PM
That is all...

Oh and just an FYI, Buick is getting the Riviera back. More here: http://buickmagazine.com/

Stingroo
01-31-11, 01:29 PM
Source?

Lord Cadillac
01-31-11, 02:19 PM
Regarding which?

Stingroo
01-31-11, 02:21 PM
Thread title.

Playdrv4me
01-31-11, 04:01 PM
Camaro, and a Cadillac sharing the same platform? Those are some strange bedfellows. Even stranger actually is that GM is already working with enough forethought for the next gen Camaro when the current one just came out last year.

Lord Cadillac
01-31-11, 04:01 PM
There was never any official statement made but this was something I heard while I was with GM in Detroit a few weeks ago..

The Camaro is too heavy - and it's been growing in size the past two generations. I mentioned just as the fifth generation Camaro was launched that some people inside were disappointed and that the sixth generation would be G37-sized. The last I heard, the next Camaro is indeed going to be smaller - BMW 3-Series sized.. My source from a few years ago, which I cannot name, was correct.

It does seem strange that a Cadillac and a Camaro will be sharing the same platform - but how many times has Cadillac shared a platform with a Chevy? Nothing new, really.. Just "Camaro" seems 'odd'...


Camaro, and a Cadillac sharing the same platform? Those are some strange bedfellows. Even stranger actually is that GM is already working with enough forethought for the next gen Camaro when the current one just came out last year.

drewsdeville
01-31-11, 04:19 PM
The Camaro has been bigger and heavier than it's competition through most of the name's life. What's new?

hueterm
01-31-11, 04:29 PM
An ATS/Camaro sized Riv is FAIL!

GM -- you suck.

cadillac kevin
01-31-11, 04:29 PM
that riviera is fugly. the bottom of the car is way too tall. looks like its got a body kit on steroids.

orconn
01-31-11, 04:40 PM
If this is true, I hope they are focusing on BMW. From what I take from contributors to the Forums, people interested in what BMW has to offer will not hear of a front wheel drive format being appropriate for a "Luxury" or any car car today! With that in mind I hope they are not trying to emulate Audi .... let's face all wheel drive is an expensive, and not really necessary for 90% of American driving conditions; i.e. heavy, expensive and more mechanically complicated that is required for most Americans driving needs.

While I don not class the senior BMWs as truly "luxury" class automobiles, the 7 series cars are not "driver's cars either, and the 5 series cars are really only near luxury vehicles or in the case of the M cars hopped up sports sedans. I think the CTS has this segment of the market served with its' "V" models.

I would hope that Cadillac will try to define "luxury" car in a way that is suitable for the American market and other markets where speed is regulated and performance at the upper end of Autobahn speeds is considered criminal. ore attention to the quality and design refinement of interiors would go a long way in advancing Cadillac's senior models along this goal. If one believes adequate handling and straight line performance are sufficient for a "luxury" car then Cadillac's current smooth operation levels and excellent ride delivers luxury class level performance even at the brand's current state of development. Granted Cadillac's styling could use a freshening up .... but the marque's current "follow the leader" styling of its' new cars isn't going carry it far in achieving "luxury class" sales. Let's face it looking like every Asian or European wannabe luxury car isn't going to bring Cadillac the status it needs, but neither would imitating the butt ugly looks of the latest Rolls and senior Mercedes.

While I admire Audi's simple, clean styling, both interior and exterior, it does not rise to "luxury class" levels in my opinion.

Redesign and upgrading of materials for the interior of Cadillacs would not be that expensive and could easily be done within current price parameters. With todays computer aided design and tight dimension manufacturing controls it would seem the luxury interior components could be manufactured in skilled but cheaper labor facilities for installation in Cadillacs in this country. Jaguar interiors of the last (not the present XJ models) should be used as benchmarks for senior Cadillac models. All models should employ higher quality switch gear and and buttons and levers. "Boombox" plastic center (maybe to for the more adolescent CTS) should be eliminated completely and utilize screens for navigation only!

EChas3
01-31-11, 08:18 PM
Those new Buicks look like toys. I'd like a real car, please.

Lord Cadillac
01-31-11, 09:57 PM
The Camaro has been bigger and heavier than it's competition through most of the name's life. What's new?

Times are changing and the Camaro needs to lose weight...


An ATS/Camaro sized Riv is FAIL!

GM -- you suck.

How big do you want a Riviera to be? Again, times are changing and cars are getting smaller (I'm sure you've noticed). I'd like a bigger Riviera myself - maybe CTS Coupe sized - but cars are getting smaller and smaller and that trend isn't going to stop anytime soon. At least not in America.


that riviera is fugly. the bottom of the car is way too tall. looks like its got a body kit on steroids.

That's not what the Riviera is going to look like. It's just a concept.


Those new Buicks look like toys. I'd like a real car, please.

The new Buicks are selling more and more and the brand is looking up. They won't appeal to everyone, but Buick is the only brand at GM where all the executives are on the same page. The brand will, without doubt, continue moving forward. Probably more so than Cadillac.


If this is true, I hope they are focusing on BMW. From what I take from contributors to the Forums, people interested in what BMW has to offer will not hear of a front wheel drive format being appropriate for a "Luxury" or any car car today! With that in mind I hope they are not trying to emulate Audi .... let's face all wheel drive is an expensive, and not really necessary for 90% of American driving conditions; i.e. heavy, expensive and more mechanically complicated that is required for most Americans driving needs.

While I don not class the senior BMWs as truly "luxury" class automobiles, the 7 series cars are not "driver's cars either, and the 5 series cars are really only near luxury vehicles or in the case of the M cars hopped up sports sedans. I think the CTS has this segment of the market served with its' "V" models.

I would hope that Cadillac will try to define "luxury" car in a way that is suitable for the American market and other markets where speed is regulated and performance at the upper end of Autobahn speeds is considered criminal. ore attention to the quality and design refinement of interiors would go a long way in advancing Cadillac's senior models along this goal. If one believes adequate handling and straight line performance are sufficient for a "luxury" car then Cadillac's current smooth operation levels and excellent ride delivers luxury class level performance even at the brand's current state of development. Granted Cadillac's styling could use a freshening up .... but the marque's current "follow the leader" styling of its' new cars isn't going carry it far in achieving "luxury class" sales. Let's face it looking like every Asian or European wannabe luxury car isn't going to bring Cadillac the status it needs, but neither would imitating the butt ugly looks of the latest Rolls and senior Mercedes.

While I admire Audi's simple, clean styling, both interior and exterior, it does not rise to "luxury class" levels in my opinion.

Redesign and upgrading of materials for the interior of Cadillacs would not be that expensive and could easily be done within current price parameters. With todays computer aided design and tight dimension manufacturing controls it would seem the luxury interior components could be manufactured in skilled but cheaper labor facilities for installation in Cadillacs in this country. Jaguar interiors of the last (not the present XJ models) should be used as benchmarks for senior Cadillac models. All models should employ higher quality switch gear and and buttons and levers. "Boombox" plastic center (maybe to for the more adolescent CTS) should be eliminated completely and utilize screens for navigation only!

Cadillac is confused. While they're still trying to figure out if they should be building soft riding, front wheel drive cars (XTS) or the world's fastest sedan (CTS-V), Buick is moving straight ahead with a direction everyone at GM actually agrees on.

hueterm
01-31-11, 10:07 PM
How big do you want a Riviera to be? Again, times are changing and cars are getting smaller (I'm sure you've noticed). I'd like a bigger Riviera myself - maybe CTS Coupe sized - but cars are getting smaller and smaller and that trend isn't going to stop anytime soon. At least not in America.



Absolutely no smaller than the last gen Monte Carlo. That's as small as I'm willing to compromise. Don't tarnish the Riviera name w/some stupid compact.

Instead of making some Infiniti G knockoff (like the CTS coupe) -- take a hint from the Camaro and revisit the original '63 design. Impress us.

Oh, and the only reason they're giving Buick so much attention is so they can sell them in China.

77CDV
01-31-11, 11:06 PM
Oh, it's BMW and Audi today? Yesterday it was MB. Tomorrow it might be Lexus.

GM still doesn't have a freakin' clue.

Jesda
01-31-11, 11:36 PM
Leadership -- Getting BMW to emulate you.

I do like the Riviera.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-01-11, 12:12 AM
Regarding the Riviera: meh. Glad to see the name return (it's one of Buick's best sounding and most historical), but let's not have a rerun of those awful 1986-88 models, in which Buick saw that much like today, everyone wanted smaller cars, and made the Riviera far too small and what turned out to be the least desirable Rivieras of all time.

I don't think a return Riviera should be a high production model, but rather something big & expensive. A showpiece if you will. Something to really desire and look up to. Like a poor man's CL Mercedes.

Cadillac it's self will always be chasing someone else. It's just the way the world is nowadays. It's too bad the foreign companies can't chase us.

After reading Orconn's post, I have to disagree. Both Audi and BMW are premier luxury car manufacturers today. They may not have the history or the prestige of Mercedes Benz or Jaguar, but what they lack in history, they more than make up for in engineering prowess, luxury and performance today. They've come a long way since 1984, when they were both just barely breaking into the luxury field, here and across the world.

Jesda
02-01-11, 12:40 AM
I'd be satisfied with a Riviera about the size of an Acura CL. It would be midsized, comfortable, and wouldn't eat into Cadillac's territory.

Playdrv4me
02-01-11, 01:05 AM
I agree with Mike. A downsized Riviera is a stupid idea, especially when you consider that the previous Riv did just fine with a Supercharged 3800 V6, it's not as if the thing was a gas hog, and fuel efficiency would be the only possible reason to downsize.

Jesda
02-01-11, 03:37 AM
No one will buy a large coupe in significant enough numbers, unfortunately.

Playdrv4me
02-01-11, 04:22 AM
Then that name should not be used. I am intrigued at the possibility of Buick building something to compete with the Genesis Coupe (only if it has the right sized powertrain, of course), but the name Riviera should not be used just BECAUSE it's a coupe.

DouglasJRizzo
02-01-11, 09:01 AM
I agree. True Leadership is getting BMW, MB et.al, to follow Cadillac, not the other way. But it's going to take serious long term committment to building cars that are TOPS in every dept. No compromises regardless of price. I doubt GM is willing to do that.

As far as Buick, they're "ok" but nothing that really gets me going. The Riviera name shouldn't be tarnished with FWD garbage and underpowered corporately styled throwaway cars. I've found the '66 - '69 Riviera's to be truly beautiful - my dad had a taupe '68 that was just gorgeous.

Lord Cadillac
02-01-11, 11:42 AM
I'd be satisfied with a Riviera about the size of an Acura CL. It would be midsized, comfortable, and wouldn't eat into Cadillac's territory.

I like the last generation Riviera quite a lot.. It's one of those cars I've always wanted to own but probably never will (like the STS and Mark VIII LSC). I'd prefer a mid-sized Riviera as well - but that's not what we're going to get, unfortunately...


No one will buy a large coupe in significant enough numbers, unfortunately.

Maybe this would have been a good place for a luxury four-door coupe..


The Riviera name shouldn't be tarnished with FWD garbage and underpowered corporately styled throwaway cars.

The Cadillac ATS, Chevy Camaro and Buick Riviera will all share a platform - which is RWD... It will likely have a high performance version with a twin turbo 3.0 liter V6.

hueterm
02-01-11, 11:55 AM
...that's not what we're going to get, unfortunately...


And from hence, the "GM, you suck" line I opened up with.

If I get an ad made up as such, can I give the board to you at the Chi meet, so you can leave w/them at your next meeting?

gdwriter
02-01-11, 12:48 PM
...take a hint from the Camaro and revisit the original '63 design. Impress us.Exactly. Over the past 2-3 years, GM has rediscovered that knockout styling sells cars.

If Buick is to make a luxury touring coupe, it must be called a Riviera, but it also needs to be worthy of the most storied nameplate in Buick's history and one of what even snooty Europeans consider one of the most beautiful cars ever made.

hueterm
02-01-11, 01:26 PM
The pic in this thread, and that terrible concept they did a year or two ago, are not that ^^

And what's the point of having almost 50 years of history with probably Buick's most admired nameplate, if you're not going to take advantage of it.

If you're going to make some kind of econocoupe that is the complete antithesis of what the Riv has always been, then call it something else.

Be like Chrysler, who flips its nameplates every couple of years, because what they put out is such a steaming pile of crap, no one wants to remember it. (Plymouth Breeze, anyone?)

DouglasJRizzo
02-01-11, 01:41 PM
No one will buy a large coupe in significant enough numbers, unfortunately.

Sadly there's some truth to this. Large two door coupe's are the first to get dropped from line ups when times get tough and the last to come back. What's frustrating is that a large rwd two door is exactly what is needed. One with breath taking styling that doesn't ape the others, with enough punch to have it keep pace with the storied foreign name plates, and built correctly, the first time.

Again, I don't see GM making this kind of commitment. It's just too easy to fall backwards rather than leap forward.