: Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale 2011



roym01
01-24-11, 02:03 PM
This is a combination of rant, complaint & observation put forth because of the dissapointment that has set in after watching the 2011 Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale auction.

For the last few months I have had a plan to attend the 2012 Barrett-Jackson auction with the intent to buy an older Vette. I currently own an 87 convertible and would like to pass that on to my wife. It is rather tame (automatic and stock except for a Magnaflow exhaust and a lumpier cam) and she should not have too much difficulty keeping it upright. I would like something a bit more powerful and more investment worthy, like a 67 327 convertible or a 70 LT1 convertible. We would then both join our local Vette club and the 2 of us would go cruising together, but this way she could actually experience the experience as a driver. Nice hobby for the wife and I to have now that the nest is empty and we need to find common fun ground.

Well, after watching approx. 30 hours of TV coverage in order to research prices and such in prep for next years auction, I am extremely dissapointed. I watched the same guy, and I did not see the whole auction, buy 6 Vettes and a couple of other classics. The 6 Vettes he bought, he overpaid on most, if not all. While I understand that a cars worth is whatever someone else would pay for it, you could tell that this individual was willing to pay almost whatever it took to add these vehicles to his collection. For all of us regular guys, the prices have just gone up due to the fact that money is really no object to this man.

Thanks Mr. Hendrick. I know you didn't mean it, but you've broken my heart (and my wife's).

billc83
01-24-11, 02:21 PM
There are other avenues to purchase a classic Corvette besides an auction.

gdwriter
01-24-11, 03:11 PM
Barrett-Jackson is where rich people pay stupid money for cars. I've attended a few, and the place is a freakin' zoo. The Russo & Steele auction in Scottsdale is a much less crowded and expensive venue, but if you're looking for a good deal, the Arizona auction scene is not the place to find one.

I would recommend AutoTrader Classics (http://www.autotraderclassics.com/subscriptions/index.xhtml), eBay or Hemmings Motor News (http://www.hemmings.com). Your local Corvette club may also be able to refer you to someone with a Corvette for sale.

creeker
01-24-11, 03:37 PM
I also wondered if these guys with lots of money are really car lovers or are they just buying for investment, I cant stand to watch the show,
maybe I'm just jealous.

orconn
01-24-11, 04:58 PM
Having watched Barrett Jackson over the years, it would not be a place I would look to purchase a collector car. All to often I see currently in vogue cars go for ridiculous prices, while very nice specimens of far superior cars go for far below their restoration cost. I get the impression alto of the bidding is fueled not by car knowledge, but rather by to much alcohol and a big ego. I for one, would look at none auction sources and also Corvette club sources to find the car of your dreams. Good Luck!

Florian
01-25-11, 10:02 AM
ProTeam Corvette in Napoleon OH....biggest dealer in the world.

F

HAZZARDJOHN
01-25-11, 11:46 AM
Barret Jackson has ruined the car hobby a little. I can count at least a dozen times where I stopped to look at a classic car and the hunyuck who was selling it was asking at least 20K more than it was worth and quoted that he saw one “just like it” go for that at Barret Jackson. The best example of this was a couple of years ago I stopped to look at a 1970 Charger SE 383, triple black with an ok driver quality restoration. It was really nothing special, a 25K any day of the week. I really liked this car and thought about buying it. After the test drive and the general looking over we started to talk money. The guy started with saying he could take “no less then $80K” He thought that was a deal cause he saw one “just like it” go through BJ and sold for over 100K. Now I just bit my tongue to stop from laughing and walked away. The car is still sitting in his showroom however many years later. Now if someone can find a triple black 1970 charger with only a 383 that ever went across the BJ line and sold for over 100K it better have had $70K in gold in the trunk.

~HJ

roym01
01-25-11, 01:43 PM
Thanks for all the replies gents. Consensus surely states that BJ isn't the place to find value.

I've had a look at ProTeam before but they are out of my snack bracket (cheapest 67 goes for 70K and its an automatic). The search continues.

orconn
01-25-11, 01:58 PM
For $70,000 there are a helluva a lot cars that are more interesting to collect than Corvettes!

jayoldschool
01-25-11, 09:05 PM
Start looking at 68-72 C3s. Deals to be had for quality cars that have upside.

RippyPartsDept
01-25-11, 09:28 PM
i have a feeling that some people at BJ just want to be on TV

Koooop
01-26-11, 12:23 AM
I didn't get to got to Scottsdale this year, nor did I watch it. But I'll make a guess that the fellow that bought 6 Corvettes was an exporter. So did he overpay? It all depends upon what currency he was using. Those cars are probably in a container and leaving the country.

Aron9000
01-26-11, 01:31 AM
I didn't get to got to Scottsdale this year, nor did I watch it. But I'll make a guess that the fellow that bought 6 Corvettes was an exporter. So did he overpay? It all depends upon what currency he was using. Those cars are probably in a container and leaving the country.

Yeah, I've always wondered about those "phone bidders". Wonder if the guy who bought six was a phone bidder in Dubai or Bahrain.

Koooop
01-26-11, 04:00 AM
Corvettes like Australia

96Fleetwood
01-26-11, 04:31 AM
I think you should still go to Barrett Jackson. My wife and I went to the Barrett Jackson auction in Vegas this past September.. it was Awesome. Tons of GM & Chrysler hosted driving events, concept cars, etc etc. My wife had to wipe the drool off my face during preview day... some of these cars are beyond show quality.

Whatever you do, make sure you see, touch, and drive your future Vette. I have seen friends get burned when they buy antiques online and end up paying $$ for an average example. Goodluck!

Playdrv4me
01-26-11, 05:09 AM
The best alternative to Barrett Jackson as far as I'm concerned is Mecum Auctions. While they do have a ton of premium stuff, one of the coolest things about Mecum is the vast volumes of "regular Joe" cars that come through and at surprisingly reasonable prices. Sometime in Summer of last year, a 2003 Range Rover with rims went through Mecum and gaveled at about $12,500.00. Even when you consider whatever buyer's premium had to be paid, for the condition of the car that was better than any average internet sale price.

Better yet, Mecum auctions are constant and happening throughout the Midwest, Southeast and I think even the Southwest throughout the year. You can sign up for the Mecum InfoNet absolutely free for advance notice of upcoming lots, online bidding (I think) and other benefits.

roym01
01-26-11, 10:11 AM
For $70,000 there are a helluva a lot cars that are more interesting to collect than Corvettes!

orconn, to each his own. I'm not a collector, I just have aging dreams that would be nice to actually experience before I wake up on the wrong side of the lawn. Many, many classics out there to be aprreciated. The Vette is just the one that turns my crank.

roym01
01-26-11, 10:15 AM
Start looking at 68-72 C3s. Deals to be had for quality cars that have upside.

jayoldschool, a '70 LT1 is my second choice. Maybe after I find my '67 I'll sell my '87 for a '70.

roym01
01-26-11, 10:16 AM
I didn't get to got to Scottsdale this year, nor did I watch it. But I'll make a guess that the fellow that bought 6 Corvettes was an exporter. So did he overpay? It all depends upon what currency he was using. Those cars are probably in a container and leaving the country.

Nope. Rick Hendrick from NASCAR fame. I don't think they'll be leaving the country.

roym01
01-26-11, 10:21 AM
I think you should still go to Barrett Jackson. My wife and I went to the Barrett Jackson auction in Vegas this past September.. it was Awesome. Tons of GM & Chrysler hosted driving events, concept cars, etc etc. My wife had to wipe the drool off my face during preview day... some of these cars are beyond show quality.

Whatever you do, make sure you see, touch, and drive your future Vette. I have seen friends get burned when they buy antiques online and end up paying $$ for an average example. Goodluck!

Advice acknowledged 96Fleetwood. I've still got my heart set on going to BJ at least once. The overall experience beats going to a used car dealer anytime, especially if you don't buy anything. Not like I'm wasting much dough as I plan to vacation in Scottsdale and attend the BJ as part of the vacation experience.

DouglasJRizzo
01-26-11, 10:42 AM
Here's my opin on things, both "corvette" and non corvette.

It's admirable that you would like a mutual hobby with your wife. Truly. However, an early to late 60s Corvette is a purchase that you should probably reconsider and if you do go head, go in well informed.

Generally, the corvette market is highly volatile. LOTS of guys in the 50-70 age bracket with very deep pockets and lots of corvette literature on their coffee tables go to these things and bid the crap out of things (as do the exporters sending stuff to the middle east and former eastern bloc). Base engine (depending on year its 250 or 300 horsepower) coupes with automatics and little in the way of options are bringing stratoshperic prices. "Magical" engine codes like "LT1" etc fetch either six figures or nearly so. There are no bargains and lots of dummied up fakes, rebuilt wrecks and otherwise average cars clamoring for the spotlight and money .

Moving up a few years, to post '71 when the plug got pulled on the horsepower and exotic options, and prices become much more reasonable. A base or L82 powered 73 will not bring huge money. Even a big block '74 (last year for that) will be somewhat more reasonably priced although still high. Move up to '75 and later, and prices are in the dumper along with engine horsepower. Even the mighty anniversary and indy specials of '78 and '79 don't bring the huge money that the speculators had them up to. However, they are still fun to drive and small amounts of tuning and tweaks can wake them up.

Things like the B/J auction do little to help the collector car hobby. You have people there bidding unreal and ridiculous amounts for vehicles that are questionable and other cars walk off as no bid or sell for far less than the cost to bring them up to snuff.

In addition to the Cadillacs I love, I have three Thunderbirds in my collection. NONE of them are a porthole '57, dual quad '55 or '63 Sport Roadster. Those cars are way out of my league price wise and quite frankly, do nothing for me. Instead I have a pristine '67, and barn fresh '71, and a '76. These bring nothing at auction or on sale, which is fine. I like them for what they are and for the memories they bring.

If your heart is set on that '66 or '67, I would avoid any corvette speciality houses or auctions and stick to private sales. Hemmings is the best for this. Even with the local corvette club, I would have be wary, as there are a LOT of speculators in these and they have an interest in keeping prices HIGH to protect their investments.

The collector car market is like the fashion world. What's in vogue one season, is out the next. I can recite a litany of former hot picks that are no longer bring the big $$.
'57 eldorado brougham
59 and 60 biarritz
62 lincoln 4dr convert
pre war lincoln "K"
pre war Cadillac
late 80s Ferrari (when Enzo died)
62 Impala SS
64 galaxy XL
58 chrysler 300
'55-'57 chev
etc etc etc

these things came and went and woe to the guy who bought high only to see tastes change and his investment fizzle. I know of two resto houses that got so badly burned on 59 Biarritz's that they refused to handle one for years after and had to put liens on the cars they were working on.

I guess it's "buy it if you like it" but be prepared to PAY if what you like happens to be what everyone else likes at the moment.

roym01
01-26-11, 01:58 PM
Here's my opin on things, both "corvette" and non corvette.

It's admirable that you would like a mutual hobby with your wife. Truly. However, an early to late 60s Corvette is a purchase that you should probably reconsider and if you do go head, go in well informed.

Generally, the corvette market is highly volatile. LOTS of guys in the 50-70 age bracket with very deep pockets and lots of corvette literature on their coffee tables go to these things and bid the crap out of things (as do the exporters sending stuff to the middle east and former eastern bloc). Base engine (depending on year its 250 or 300 horsepower) coupes with automatics and little in the way of options are bringing stratoshperic prices. "Magical" engine codes like "LT1" etc fetch either six figures or nearly so. There are no bargains and lots of dummied up fakes, rebuilt wrecks and otherwise average cars clamoring for the spotlight and money .

Moving up a few years, to post '71 when the plug got pulled on the horsepower and exotic options, and prices become much more reasonable. A base or L82 powered 73 will not bring huge money. Even a big block '74 (last year for that) will be somewhat more reasonably priced although still high. Move up to '75 and later, and prices are in the dumper along with engine horsepower. Even the mighty anniversary and indy specials of '78 and '79 don't bring the huge money that the speculators had them up to. However, they are still fun to drive and small amounts of tuning and tweaks can wake them up.

Things like the B/J auction do little to help the collector car hobby. You have people there bidding unreal and ridiculous amounts for vehicles that are questionable and other cars walk off as no bid or sell for far less than the cost to bring them up to snuff.

In addition to the Cadillacs I love, I have three Thunderbirds in my collection. NONE of them are a porthole '57, dual quad '55 or '63 Sport Roadster. Those cars are way out of my league price wise and quite frankly, do nothing for me. Instead I have a pristine '67, and barn fresh '71, and a '76. These bring nothing at auction or on sale, which is fine. I like them for what they are and for the memories they bring.

If your heart is set on that '66 or '67, I would avoid any corvette speciality houses or auctions and stick to private sales. Hemmings is the best for this. Even with the local corvette club, I would have be wary, as there are a LOT of speculators in these and they have an interest in keeping prices HIGH to protect their investments.

The collector car market is like the fashion world. What's in vogue one season, is out the next. I can recite a litany of former hot picks that are no longer bring the big $$.
'57 eldorado brougham
59 and 60 biarritz
62 lincoln 4dr convert
pre war lincoln "K"
pre war Cadillac
late 80s Ferrari (when Enzo died)
62 Impala SS
64 galaxy XL
58 chrysler 300
'55-'57 chev
etc etc etc

these things came and went and woe to the guy who bought high only to see tastes change and his investment fizzle. I know of two resto houses that got so badly burned on 59 Biarritz's that they refused to handle one for years after and had to put liens on the cars they were working on.

I guess it's "buy it if you like it" but be prepared to PAY if what you like happens to be what everyone else likes at the moment.

DJR, I appreciate the comments and acknowledge the advice.

Again, I am not a collector and having a his and her Vette hopefully does not make me sound like one. Stamps are for collecting, cars are for experiencing and I have experienced Vettes for many, many years. I grew up admiring, desiring and working hard to be able to afford these cars. I've never had deep pockets but it's amazing what you can attain with some sacrifices.

I have been "shopping" for this baby for several years now. I do not see quite the volatility of the 63 to 67 Vette markert that you do, except for the downturn of 2 years ago which we are still recovering from (I recall reading somewhere that prices have dropped an average of 2% over last year, not sure how much the year before). The 'real deal' cars of this vintage will always hold their investment, partly because of the 'deep pocket' guys who show up at BJ. Remember, a car is worth only what someone else is willing to pay for it. If I don't buy at BJ, I might want to sell it there (even with the 10% commission).

DouglasJRizzo
01-26-11, 03:23 PM
It sounds to me like you're using wisdom and forethought in this purchase! Bravo and best wishes. If you go into the market with eyes open and patience, the right deal will come your way.

Koooop
01-26-11, 04:18 PM
In the value crash you left out "all things Mopar".


Here's a great little auction to go to as well.

http://www.classic-carauction.com/

Keep in mind, the Barrett Jackson auctions only show the hype on TV. There are tons of cars you don't get to see that go through.

Definitely look and touch an older Vette before you buy, restamped numbers are everywhere, good fakes, wrong motors make a huge difference in value One of my friends is a Vette expert, he seriously knows these cars. He knows plenty of the cars that are in the market place, he is particularly fond of Midyear cars. If you find a car that you want looked over PM me and I'll put you in touch with him. He is is well known in the Corvette world. If you plan to spring the Dollars for an NCRS quality car be sure to verify the car is correct. It's not cheap to have him go through the car, but he can spot a restamp at a glance.

DouglasJRizzo
01-26-11, 04:34 PM
The mopar crash could be seen a mile away. 60s and 70s Chrysler products were poorly made uni-body rattle traps. When I saw hemi powered 'Cudas and Challengers taking million dollar prices, I knew that the fall would be hard. They're still way over priced in my opinion.

The whole collector car market is volatile and wacky. I'm glad that the rides I like haven't "caught on" and hopefully never will.

roym01
01-31-11, 12:03 PM
In the value crash you left out "all things Mopar".


Here's a great little auction to go to as well.

http://www.classic-carauction.com/

Keep in mind, the Barrett Jackson auctions only show the hype on TV. There are tons of cars you don't get to see that go through.

Definitely look and touch an older Vette before you buy, restamped numbers are everywhere, good fakes, wrong motors make a huge difference in value One of my friends is a Vette expert, he seriously knows these cars. He knows plenty of the cars that are in the market place, he is particularly fond of Midyear cars. If you find a car that you want looked over PM me and I'll put you in touch with him. He is is well known in the Corvette world. If you plan to spring the Dollars for an NCRS quality car be sure to verify the car is correct. It's not cheap to have him go through the car, but he can spot a restamp at a glance.

Thanks Koooop. I do have my eye on something with NCRS quality and would probably need/want some real expert advice before I buy. I'll keep you and your advice in mind.

roym01
01-31-11, 12:06 PM
It sounds to me like you're using wisdom and forethought in this purchase! Bravo and best wishes. If you go into the market with eyes open and patience, the right deal will come your way.

Thanks DJR. This intended purchase scares me more than buying a home (and has taken much longer).