: New Motor Mounts & cags eliminator - feels like a new car



lucasmartin
01-21-11, 06:11 PM
I've had my V for about 6 months now. I bought it with around 34k miles on it, and my friend (the previous owner) said I would need new motor mounts fairly soon. To me, the car was so smooth and stiff in the drivetrain that I thought maybe he was just used to something different (I came from older cars with higher miles, etc).

Over the past 3-4 weeks, I noticed that the vibration in the car increased dramatically. I read the "vibration at 2k" threads with earnest as I was having the same problems. Specifically, the past two weeks have been bad. At 2k in any gear, the steering wheel shook to the point that it was frustrating to drive. I asked my buddy who does the work on my car (he works for GM) to check the warranty status (I have the GMPP) and the motor mounts were an auto-approve.

So today I got new mounts, the CAGS 1-4 eliminator, and an oil change. The difference in the feel of the car is mind blowing. It seriously feels like a new car. No longer does the engine shudder on startup. No longer does the car shudder when I feather the clutch backing into the garage. No longer does ANY vibration occur in any gear. The mounts I got were OEMs as GM would not cover the Creative Steel (I tried). With a copay of 50 bucks, I'll probably be on OEMs for a while.

Sorry for the long post but I am extremely excited right now and the only person around is my wife who just says "I'm happy for you baby" and that doesn't cut it.

And just to show you how bad things were, here is a pic taken by the mechanic of my old mounts. One had completely collapsed and the other dropped almost an inch.

Houdini
01-21-11, 06:51 PM
Yeah I had the same excitement the last time I had my oem mounts replaced (after waiting ages for the nationwide backorder). Everything was so smooth and shifting was so much better; however, that didn't last long and I'm not expecting these newer mounts to last long. In fact, I think they are already going bad but thank god for warranties.

I wish I could get a dealer to replace with CS mounts but I don't think it will happen. I just wish the OEMs would last longer.

mmayzak
01-23-11, 01:05 PM
When these mounts need to be replaced how EXPENSIVE is that?

lucasmartin
01-23-11, 01:43 PM
@ Houdini: How long do you think your stayed smooth? I have heard estimated ranging from 5k to 15k miles until they wear out. I drive mine fairly normal for this car. I accelerate pretty strong getting on the highway and around town I don't really get in it too much unless I run up on a car that wants to play around. Zero track time or racing for me.

@mmayzak: I have no clue. This is one of the reasons I kept the GMPP warranty active and plan to as long as I own the car. My copay for the mounts was 50 bucks.

Houdini
01-23-11, 02:59 PM
If you drive it hard with more than spirited shifting I don't doubt the 5k to 15k. I didn't get my originals replaced until 30k but they were shot well before I got them replaced. I've had these new ones in maybe 8k and they are already affecting shifting. I've looked at them twice and I can feel no cracks or see any leaks but they must be sagging already. If I keep driving/shifting hard I'm sure they'll tear again in the near future.

mmayzak
01-23-11, 04:08 PM
Thanks... thats why I am getting the 2 year/24,000 warranty on the one I am looking at getting... this warranty has a $100 deductable.

CadzillaTN
01-23-11, 04:20 PM
Yeah I had the same excitement the last time I had my oem mounts replaced (after waiting ages for the nationwide backorder). Everything was so smooth and shifting was so much better; however, that didn't last long and I'm not expecting these newer mounts to last long. In fact, I think they are already going bad but thank god for warranties.

I wish I could get a dealer to replace with CS mounts but I don't think it will happen. I just wish the OEMs would last longer.
just keep busting stock mounts and they'll do it.. my dealer replaced my busted driver side but didnt do the passenger. that new driver blew in a matter of days, so they offered to do my cs mounts no charge (and no more warranty). if they do it for free, make sure they put the heat shields on!!



@ Houdini: How long do you think your stayed smooth? I have heard estimated ranging from 5k to 15k miles until they wear out. I drive mine fairly normal for this car. I accelerate pretty strong getting on the highway and around town I don't really get in it too much unless I run up on a car that wants to play around. Zero track time or racing for me.

@mmayzak: I have no clue. This is one of the reasons I kept the GMPP warranty active and plan to as long as I own the car. My copay for the mounts was 50 bucks.

I've decided I am going to renew my gmpp for another 2-3 yrs. Although some things wont be covered, it's cheap peace of mind for gremlins.


If you drive it hard with more than spirited shifting I don't doubt the 5k to 15k. I didn't get my originals replaced until 30k but they were shot well before I got them replaced. I've had these new ones in maybe 8k and they are already affecting shifting. I've looked at them twice and I can feel no cracks or see any leaks but they must be sagging already. If I keep driving/shifting hard I'm sure they'll tear again in the near future.

I'm thinking about modifying my new stock mounts before I put them in to make them last longer and want everyone's opinion on the idea.

Currently, the killer of stock mounts is sagging and/or ripping. See pics below.

New mount next to an averagely worn but still functional mount with some sag- they can live like this for a very long time if you dont romp on it.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMG_3107.jpg

new mount next to blown mount but not torn apart:

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMG_3110.jpg

torn apart a bit

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMG_3135.jpg

a bit more
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMG_3112.jpg

the bottom half frame is all metal, like a 'bucket'

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMG_3115.jpg

the (bottom) of the top section is an inverted mushroom that cannot escape the bottom portion, and floats freely due to the upper rubber insulator. The top of the top piece is an inverted metal cone bonded to the rubber insulation layer on top of the 'bucket'. The top piece eventually bottoms out if it sags enough, but still cannot separate if pulled upward.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMG_3134.jpg

My idea is this-- drill holes straight down about 3/4in just through that metal cone using the already recessed spots on the top of the mounts as guide spots. Force the fluid out, retaining to measure for reference. At this point the mount will still have its 'structure' because the rubber as not yet been compressed or ripped.

From here I refill with a liquid or other substance via high pressure that will fill that void and adhere those parts together to form a "solid" bond. Since the top's bottom piece sort of "floats" just below the edge of the lower bucket's inner lip, if I bond it that way, it should theoretically keep the mount together longer because the upward pressure will be on this metal lip not allowing the top section to pull away from the rubber, which starts the entire mess. It will also prevent bottoming out, which will help avoid compression and preserve normal (easy shifting) height.

the question is, fill with what? hardening expoxy, or perhaps urethane, or liquid rubber that hardens? I have no knowledge of anything in this arena...

ah well, could be a crapshoot and I guess I could ruin perfect mounts...but I just want these stocks to last a while longer than normal while I ponder a longer term solution to mounts..

Houdini
01-23-11, 04:30 PM
I can't answer your question but nice pictures. I think just a tiny bit of sagging is what causes mine to start shifting crappy.

kevm14
01-23-11, 04:45 PM
So if my shifter feels like it fights sometimes, and if torquing the engine with my right foot as I shift improves the feel sometimes, and I already have a UUC shifter, I should be looking at my mounts? One has been replaced and the other may be original at 102k. Vibes don't seem out of whack but the shifting usually bothers me.

Houdini
01-23-11, 04:49 PM
There are many posts on here about how new mounts improves shifting. Mine feels like it 'fights' 2nd and 3rd sometimes and isn't smooth anymore. When I first got the new oem mounts that problem went away for a while.

CadzillaTN
01-23-11, 05:06 PM
So if my shifter feels like it fights sometimes, and if torquing the engine with my right foot as I shift improves the feel sometimes, and I already have a UUC shifter, I should be looking at my mounts? One has been replaced and the other may be original at 102k. Vibes don't seem out of whack but the shifting usually bothers me.

yes, mounts... they have to be replaced in pairs to get the new feeling. I had a pair done, felt like a new car. that pair's driver failed 1.5 yrs later, passenger was ok. I got a new driver, busted it quick cause the passenger was sagged so bad it allowed the driver to flex enough to rip that rubber.

this will come down to speaking to a service advisor--well, nevermind I forgot you are out of warranty...but for those who aren't, after they've just fixed the driver side, come back in soon complaining of persistent clunk citing the mileage on the other mount, and they'll probably replace the passenger too. Is this worth the joyride for them to recreate the issue? that's debatable.

you may be stuck with the aftermarket unless you just buy one new mount.. . I'm interested in those UUCs...but I want to see one torn apart first. I feel it's only fair to the other vendors who have had their designs called out.


There are many posts on here about how new mounts improves shifting. Mine feels like it 'fights' 2nd and 3rd sometimes and isn't smooth anymore. When I first got the new oem mounts that problem went away for a while.

having to force second is the easiest indicator for me. 1st being tough is a common/intermittent/normal problem, but second should be butter smooth with good mounts, fresh clutch fluid, fresh trans fluid, and a better shifter.

kevm14
01-23-11, 05:12 PM
That really gives me hope. Is the shifter supposed to have play when it is in gear? Mine does and I have no idea if anything should be replaced. Or if the sloppy mounts caused strain on the shifter bushings and wore them out.

Houdini
01-23-11, 05:37 PM
My shifter had a good amount of side to side play in it while in gear. I had it to the dealer a few weeks ago because my shift knob was loose and rattling like crazy in certain gears (annoying). Instead of just replacing the knob they put in a brand new shifter and oem bushings ....haha. I wish they hadn't done that because I was waiting to install PISNUOFF's shifter and bushings. Anyway, the new shifter they put in with oem bushings cut down on the side to side play in gear but it still had some. Unfortunately, it did nothing for my loose shift knob that still rattles...sigh. So with that new shifter/bushings, a fresh clutch fluid flush/bleed, and new AMSOIL tranny fluid, it still fights 2nd and 3rd a bit so I'm thinking it has to be my mounts sagging. I'm not really sure of a good test for synchros but I guess it could be those too. I installed PISNUOFF's shifter and bushings the other day and it is a VERY AWESOME shifter. I still have a some side to side play but it's not much and feels fine to me. The shorter throw helped the 'fighting' of 2nd and 3rd a tad but I still think my mounts are sagging.

CadzillaTN
01-23-11, 05:46 PM
You need to buy a shifter. It shouldn't even be considered a mod really. More like a repair.

I would think shifter play is relatively independent of the mounts.

All shifters have play to some degree, even aftermarket and modified. The linkage bushing can wear over time, the bushings on the arms of course that people replace with UUC, and the bushings at the trans... I think even then there will be play purely due to geometry.

I bought a new linkage bushing and the trans bushings from pisnuoff but have not installed on my b&m yet.. I can't wait to get that like new notchiness again..

I haven't tried the modified shifter but my b&m was significantly- no, ridiculously, firmer than stock.

CadzillaTN
01-27-11, 08:52 PM
After reading on other car forums about others filling various mounts using different types and brands of material, I decided to go with a 60a polyurethane to fill the liquid void after I drained my stock mounts. I drilled holes in each groove on top of the mounts, enough to hit the plate within the mount and create an air tunnel on both sides. The fluid in one was similar to synthetic oil. The other was much darker and heavier, could have just been on the shelf longer.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0236.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0235.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0239.jpg

The poly was in a caulk style tube.. I slowly filled the mount until it came out the other side, stopping intermittently to bang on a hard surface and get as much into the various voids as I could. I would say I got them 90% filled, which should be plenty. I could have gone with a harder poly like 80-94, but my mission wasn't a solid mount. I also dont know if the mount's perfect position for smooth operation is at the current brand new height, or the height when the engine's weight has settled them the initial 1/8-1/4 inch... oh well. This should at a minimum make these mounts last longer than they would in stock form, which was my goal. If I've ruined them, then this will be considered a normal project for me and I'll just buy more mounts...

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0242.jpg

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0245.jpg



My shifter had a good amount of side to side play in it while in gear. I had it to the dealer a few weeks ago because my shift knob was loose and rattling like crazy in certain gears (annoying). Instead of just replacing the knob they put in a brand new shifter and oem bushings ....haha. I wish they hadn't done that because I was waiting to install PISNUOFF's shifter and bushings. Anyway, the new shifter they put in with oem bushings cut down on the side to side play in gear but it still had some. Unfortunately, it did nothing for my loose shift knob that still rattles...sigh. So with that new shifter/bushings, a fresh clutch fluid flush/bleed, and new AMSOIL tranny fluid, it still fights 2nd and 3rd a bit so I'm thinking it has to be my mounts sagging. I'm not really sure of a good test for synchros but I guess it could be those too. I installed PISNUOFF's shifter and bushings the other day and it is a VERY AWESOME shifter. I still have a some side to side play but it's not much and feels fine to me. The shorter throw helped the 'fighting' of 2nd and 3rd a tad but I still think my mounts are sagging.

Im not sure how pisnuoff's shifter is designed at the top where the knob attaches at the handle, but if it still has the stock "notch" on it, you need to saw that part off and put your stock knob back on. This will make the knob much tighter and it wont rattle.

Houdini
01-27-11, 10:55 PM
I can't wait to hear the results of your modified mounts. Cool project...hope it works out for you.

CadzillaTN
01-31-11, 11:43 PM
thanks. With any luck, this should strengthen these stock mounts enough to make them last a good bit longer than normal.

After I was finished with the initial fill, some of the poly was oozing out of the holes slowly. At the time I thought it was just expanding, but in fact air bubbles were just trying to get out. In retrospect I should have allowed that air to escape, then shot more poly down in the hole. The package referenced a 30 minute working time so my sense of urgency got the best of me. I first thought I had them both 90+ % full, but I feel it may be closer to 75-80% in one and 90% or so in the other. I'm going to take them to work and weigh them to be absolutely sure which is filled more. I guess I'll use the most filled for driver side since it will presumably flex the least, and the other for passenger side.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0250.jpg


http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y332/memphisctsv/IMAG0257.jpg

I can tell you that the mounts feel much more solid (I cannot compress with my hands anymore) and have a nice thud vs a vibrating feel when I clank them together. After 24 hours I was a bit worried, the poly was still fairly soft and I thought I'd ruined them. At 48 hours it was a good bit firmer, and at 96 hours it had hardened enough that I couldn't compress the small amount driven out of the hole with my fingers. I took a pair of vice grips to one of the hard chunks to see what kind of compression characteristics it had, and I was impressed... I smashed that small piece as hard and flat as I could, and when released, it went back to it's original shape.. over and over. That tells me that although I didn't get them filled 100%, what's in there will act as a nice flexible bond that will prevent the passenger from smashing and the driver side from extending enough to rip that rubber layer, which starts the ultimate demise of both mounts. The liquid layer really does nothing to preserve the integrity of the mounts, only dampen vibration. They are free to flex and squash, and once they lose their fluid they rip all the way and you get the free movement. This will prevent all of that. I guess the rubber could still dry rot and break apart but I'll have something to replace them with by then.

My next steps will be to drill the poly halfway out of the holes and cap them off with a nice shot of jb-weld. That will bond a nice plug to prevent any future air penetration. After that I'll install and see how they feel! They'll definitely be firmer than stock, after all I removed the liquid dampening layer and replaced it with poly. I almost wish I'd gone with a harder poly, but once I get them in the car I'll probably be glad I went with the 60a vs an 80 or 90s hardness..
I also ordered some volcanic rock wrap tape that I will cut in strips and create squares, layer them, then cut circles out of that...then cut a hole in that circle, and I then have something that mimics the stock heat shield but with 1500 degree heat protection.
http://thermalcontrolproducts.com/images/VolcanoWrap.jpg

CancerJCC
02-01-11, 11:55 PM
Awesome work! Be sure to start your own thread will all of these great pics and info once you have some miles on them. Obviously with a report of how they are holding up as well. Engineering by trial and error can get expensive but it seems you have thought this through pretty well, good luck and great job.

Fastone27
02-02-11, 10:04 AM
Hey Guys ... I just bought my 07 with 49,000 miles on it, Is it possible to actually see the motor mounts if i jack the car up? i just want to check to see if my Motor mounts are ok? i feel a slight shake while stopped at stop light but i consider that just normal?

CadiBlk
02-02-11, 10:13 AM
A little shake is normal. You have a torque monster under the hood and that is just it's way of letting you know that it's there. You can see the the motor mounts with the car jacked up. Usually the mounts tear and you don't see the damage because the engine isn't moving and the tear/rip/gouge isn't opening. One way to tell if you have damage is to check the oil pan and areas surrounding the mounts for an orange-ish liquid stain. The mounts are full of a fluid (that smells bad) and when they rip usually they will squirt some of it out. That and shakes is how I knew my mount was gonzo. Usually it is the driverside is the mount that goes bad.

Also a little shake on startup and shutdown are normal too because GM put a large b!tch of a flywheel in this car and when getting it moving or brining it to a stop will cause some shimmy.

CadiBlk
02-02-11, 10:14 AM
Maybe if it wasn't trying load so many ads on top of ads to advertise about the ads, then this server would be so laggy and create double posts which creates more load for the ads to handle.

Fastone27
02-02-11, 10:18 AM
Thanks for incredibly quick response! I will jack it up later today see whats up. I'm familiar with these beasts of a motor . I just sold my LS2 Stroker Trailblazer SS. That was a beast! It was putting down 450rwhp plus i had 100 shot on it! But i swear this CTS-V feels faster! I guess carrying around 1,000lbs less weight than the 4,800 brick will give ya that on my butt dyno!

CadiBlk
02-02-11, 01:56 PM
While you modding your mounts and I'm not sure how to fix this, but after analysis of my broken mount, it failed right where the top portion of the mount that is metal meets the rubber. Looking at pictures of these failed mounts I think that is where most of the issues come from. This area fails which allows that top metal portion more movement which leads to large tears/chunks out of the rubber portion. The rubber on my mounts seems fine and not dry rotted. I feel like it is a bonding issue with the metal and the rubber. Maybe the heat effects the glue that breaks down and leads to our issue. The stock heat shield skirt leaves this ring where the rubber meets the metal exposed.

Since you are injecting through that top metal piece maybe you won't run into this issue because if the bond between the metal and that outside rubber your mounts won't leak fluid and will stay formed.

I think that replacement aftermarket mounts are a quick easy fix, but for folks that like doing like yourself and working with what they have, this might be an avenue of improvement.

Good luck with the project. If you have any more of that poly, you might want to do like someone else on here did (i think it was mightymouse) and fill in the gaps in the trans mount.

CadzillaTN
02-02-11, 03:35 PM
Thanks and agreed on all points. The weak spots are definitely the bond where metal meets the top and bottom of the rubber insulating layer.

I agree aftermarket is probably the way to go if you want something quick and off the shelf. I personally wouldn't attempt this modification unless I had brand new mounts in hand (in this case, another forum member gave me a substantial discount on a new set he had- thank you odla).

I feel that if your goal is like new operation, it wouldn't help to fill a set of used stock mounts (unless just installed) even if they hadn't leaked yet because they have probably already sagged. However, if you were broke you could get creative with a busted mount and make it usable again. The 2 piece frame is a good starting point as long as you maintain the proper height of the mount.