: Car Shopping Time



Ranger
01-11-11, 12:09 AM
God how I hate it, but the wife's '96 Bonneville is crying for replacement. It has 175K on it. Engine and trans are fine, but the strut bearings are squawking, it has a couple of rust spots and worst of all it has developed a gas leak in the fuel line way up top near the top of the tank and thus has lost it's garage privileges and has been relegated to the driveway. It will require a tank drop and it ain't gonna happen. She does a lot of craft shows and needs some cargo space so I'm thinking small SUV like an Explorer or a Trailblazer. Maybe a Crossover, but I don't know much about them. If I buy Japanese I'll never live it down, but not out of the question if the car, price and mileage are right. I'm thinking '06 or '07 (maybe '08) with 40K give or take (preferably take). Explorer and Trailblazer are at the top of the list right now. Comments and suggestions are welcome.

hueterm
01-11-11, 12:15 AM
To me, Explorers and Trailblazers each have a big fault:

You can't tow w/a U-Haul trailer w/Explorers due to the rollover/tire witch hunt. Not really the car's fault, but the way it is, nonetheless.

Trailblazers have that goofed up second row fold down like the EXT/Avalanche that requires you to move the front row seats up part of the way.

Neither of these, may impact you -- if so, I'd go w/the Trailblazer/Envoy/Rainier/Bravada. I like the way they drive and ride better.

A Grand Cherokee has neither of these drawbacks, but is smaller than either. But I think it's the worst riding of the three, but the best in the snow.

I don't see any reason to go Japanese, BTW.

orconn
01-11-11, 12:31 AM
Do your self and your wife a favor and get a Honda Odyssey, for the purpose of hauling stuff and people can't be beat!

ga_etc
01-11-11, 12:32 AM
First reaction when reading the thread title: Oh God, what happened to the Deville? Glad that's not the case.

I would go with the Trailblazer over the Explorer personally. The 4.0 in the Explorer just doesn't have any power and sucks gas. How about the Subaru Forester? Small enough to park easily, very reasonable cargo room, AWD for the Illinois winters, and still good on gas.

ga_etc
01-11-11, 12:44 AM
For your consideration: 2008 2.5X with 33k miles for ~$16k. (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=282672820&dealer_id=55433242&car_year=2008&doors=&systime=&model=FOREST&search_lang=en&start_year=2006&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&scarid=286834581&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=50&min_price=&drive=&rdm=1294720620462&marketZipError=false&advanced=&fuel=&keywords_display=&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2008&showZipError=y&make2=&certified=&engine=&page_location=findacar::ispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&max_mileage=&address=60098&color=&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=&awsp=false&make=SUB&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=53&standard=false&rdpage=thumb)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-11-11, 01:03 AM
Any of those midsized GM offerings are generally very solid choices. Good reliability records, good power and fuel economy, plenty of features and they won't give you any hassle. I'd go with the Bravada or Rainier as they're the most luxurious and have most features of your DHS.

hueterm
01-11-11, 01:07 AM
Rainier FTW

hueterm
01-11-11, 01:11 AM
What about a late model Rendezvous? I know it's dangerously close to an Aztek, but they didn't look bad for a crossover, and I bet they're dirt cheap...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-11-11, 01:16 AM
You could drive to Maine and have a......Seaside Rendezvous!

(that's a joke only mike and I will probably get)

hueterm
01-11-11, 01:21 AM
LOL. I thought about that after I typed it...

ga_etc
01-11-11, 01:28 AM
Yeah, the Rainier is nice. Way better than the Trailblazer.

Playdrv4me
01-11-11, 01:53 AM
I love the Grand Cherokees, and I know you are mechanically inclined, but they're just not the most reliable things in the world in any generation. The Explorer is fine, but with prices where they are right now, please do yourself a favor and look at the Lincoln Aviator... she will love it. In the TrailBlazer Series, I'd recommend the Rainier as well. I really respect that you are willing to even consider a foreign product at all, but short of a Toyota 4Runner, I think we have plenty to choose from on this side of the pond for this purpose.

Aron9000
01-11-11, 02:26 AM
I was going to say go look at a Toyota 4Runner. The last gen models came in v6 and v8 forms, I'd stick with the v6, its plenty powerful and its better on gas.

The Trailblazer is another solid choice, but I've always thought the interior to be a bit junky on those. Otherwise its pretty solid mechanically.

Although I would really consider a Suburu wagon of some sort for gas mileage. They come in three sizes, Impreza(small), Forrester(kind of taller), and Legacy(more traditional larger wagon). You might also consider a Volvo wagon, those can be had with AWD and are really nice.

Jesda
01-11-11, 02:29 AM
Saturn Outlook. You can get one possibly for less than an Enclave or Acadia due to the brand's demise and there's more interior room than a Suburban.


Whose idea was it to name a CUV after an office program? Was the Saturn Excel coming next?

ga_etc
01-11-11, 02:35 AM
The Legacy Outback is the wagon. I like those too. Found one on Autotrader earlier that was a stick. Do want.

Playdrv4me
01-11-11, 03:41 AM
Saturn Outlook. You can get one possibly for less than an Enclave or Acadia due to the brand's demise and there's more interior room than a Suburban.


Whose idea was it to name a CUV after an office program? Was the Saturn Excel coming next?

There's no way I'd take the Outlook over the Aviator for less money, and the 3.6 eats timing chains. N* Part Deux. Plus, if she made due with a Bonneville, she probably doesn't need a Suburban's worth of space.

If it MUST be an 07 or newer, then I'd probably stick with the Rainier, Saab 9-7x or GMC Envoy Denali.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-11-11, 08:44 AM
Whose idea was it to name a CUV after an office program? Was the Saturn Excel coming next?

No, Hyundai covered that back in '86, and they covered the Entourage as well! I'd heard rumors of a supposed Pontiac Powerpoint though.

drewsdeville
01-11-11, 10:49 AM
So wait, Destroyer gets chewed out here because he claims won't buy a N* due to it's problems, but many claim they won't buy a 3.6 powered vehicle because it eats timing chains?

Double standards?

Anyway, regarding the Trailblazer, due to the commentary from others, I always thought the Trailblazers mileage wasn't really that good. I've heard a lot of people say that the mpg difference between the Trailblazer and the full sizers really isn't as much as you'd think by looking at the specs on paper.

FWIW, I rented a Trailblazer for a trip to FL once. While I can't comment on mileage because I used it to tow, I find the Explorer to be far more comfortable even in it's own stripped form like my rental Trailblazer. But I guess comfort really isn't worth comparing anyway as it is subjective, and only you can decide that after some test drives. But, the Ford 4.6 is nearly unstoppable and can return respectable mileage depending on how it's driven. Also, Ford doesn't seem to have the frequent driveline issues like GM's trucks can have sometimes (u-joints, rear ends, seals).

Jesda
01-11-11, 10:53 AM
There's no way I'd take the Outlook over the Aviator for less money, and the 3.6 eats timing chains. N* Part Deux. Plus, if she made due with a Bonneville, she probably doesn't need a Suburban's worth of space.

The Outlook is much, much bigger than the Aviator inside. This is an SUV that's going to be used for actual cargo after all, not just trips to the mall.

And the Outlook/Acadia gets 24mpg.

Jesda
01-11-11, 10:55 AM
No, Hyundai covered that back in '86, and they covered the Entourage as well! I'd heard rumors of a supposed Pontiac Powerpoint though.

LMAO

I can imagine a smaller Outlook having been called the Outlook Express.

Jesda
01-11-11, 10:59 AM
So wait, Destroyer gets chewed out here because he claims won't buy a N* due to it's problems, but many claim they won't buy a 3.6 powered vehicle because it eats timing chains?

It makes logical sense, actually. The head gasket issue seemed smaller than it was. Now its a major issue. As a result, its wise to be concerned about the 3.6's timing chains, just in case. The best way to alleviate that concern is with an extended warranty from a reputable company.

Playdrv4me
01-11-11, 05:56 PM
LMAO

I can imagine a smaller Outlook having been called the Outlook Express.

Pow!

Submariner409
01-11-11, 06:51 PM
Used Supercab V-6 Ranger with a top-high cap ??

smaller version of this.......................

ben.gators
01-11-11, 08:02 PM
What about SRX? it is not the cheapest choice, but SRX is a nice car, and provides you with luxury and space you need.... and I bet it will be much easier for you to maintain two cars from the same breed than two totally different cars....

ben.gators
01-11-11, 08:07 PM
That is a very nice looking truck, sub... have more pics from inside?

Ranger
01-11-11, 10:27 PM
Lots of good ideas and some I had not thought about. No Jeeps. SRX? Are you kidding? If you saw how my wife treats her cars you'd understand.

ga_etc
01-11-11, 11:02 PM
Hope some of the suggestions have helped.

Jesda
01-11-11, 11:15 PM
Now get her a VW Beetle. :)

ben.gators
01-12-11, 02:11 AM
Oh, I see, so you are looking for a good car that deep down in your heart you do not have any feeling or sympathy to that car! :D

Submariner409
01-12-11, 11:48 AM
Larry, FWIW, Karen absolutely detests driving the Seville because she can't see the corners - it IS a lousy car for close-in maneuvering. Her vehicle of first choice is the truck - the height and all-around visibility is far and away better than the car.

Disadvantage for the truck ? The 4.6 OHC engine, hooked to the 4X4 setup, gives absolute tops of 18 mpg highway on 87. The Ranger V-6 is somewhat better.

Playdrv4me
01-12-11, 04:20 PM
Larry, FWIW, Karen absolutely detests driving the Seville because she can't see the corners - it IS a lousy car for close-in maneuvering. Her vehicle of first choice is the truck - the height and all-around visibility is far and away better than the car.

Disadvantage for the truck ? The 4.6 OHC engine, hooked to the 4X4 setup, gives absolute tops of 18 mpg highway on 87. The Ranger V-6 is somewhat better.

It's so funny you mention that. Back in the day before I started bringing home all manner of gigantic SUVs and pickups, my Mom INSISTED that she would not set FOOT in ANY of them and for us to get her a very small car. One day the situation essentially required her to drive one of my vehicles, and ever since then she won't touch a car. Whenever she had to drive the Seville she was NOT happy because she couldn't see the ends of the car, and even when she was driving my old H2, she says she got the hang of it quickly and could see all the corners. It is quite amusing to see a tiny woman climbing into these behemoths.

Ranger
01-12-11, 10:20 PM
The search is over. I was initially thinking of something along the lines of what I was replacing like a Buick LeSabre (she DID want a full size car) before mentioning an SUV, but would give me little input. I buy 'em, she drives what I buy. So last night I spotted an '02 LeSabre Custom with 20K on it on the net at a dealer in Wisc. about 50 miles away. Called this morning and it was sold, BUT he had an '05 LeSabre Limited (Up graded version) with 24K on it. Long story short, I made a deal over the phone, drove up and looked at it. It's now in my garage and the gas leaker is just a memory. Got the LeSabre for less than KBB AND he gave me more than the Pontiac was worth. I must say, that LeSabre is one nice car. Has all the Caddy options including leather heated memory seats, electrochromatic rear view mirror, oil pressure & coolant temp readouts, tire pressure monitors, ELC, Rainsense, OLM (with oil life remaining), speed controlled radio volume AND heads up display. Even got a 3 month 3000 mile drivetrain warranty. Probably a lot I am forgetting. The ride is much like the Caddy as well, smooth and quiet. I'm impressed and happy the leaker is gone.

drewsdeville
01-12-11, 10:25 PM
Has all the Caddy options including leather heated memory seats, electrochromatic rear view mirror, oil pressure & coolant temp readouts, tire pressure monitors, OLM (with oil life remaining), speed controlled radio volume AND heads up display.

Sort of an oddball question, but...

Are the GM oil pressure gauges actually real-time gauges or are they just dummy oil pressure switches where the gauge reads some arbitrary number for any oil pressure and reads 0 for none?

hueterm
01-12-11, 10:26 PM
Awesome. LeSabre Limiteds are almost indistinguishable from a Park Avenue.

Ranger
01-12-11, 11:18 PM
Sort of an oddball question, but...

Are the GM oil pressure gauges actually real-time gauges or are they just dummy oil pressure switches where the gauge reads some arbitrary number for any oil pressure and reads 0 for none?
Not sure, but I get a numeric digital read out that fluctuates so it appears to be an actual oil pressure as opposed to an analogue gauge.

ben.gators
01-12-11, 11:22 PM
Good choice... what color is it?

drewsdeville
01-12-11, 11:22 PM
Digital readout for oil pressure? Nice!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-13-11, 12:13 AM
Very solid choice Larry! Gotta love those old people and their Buicks, 24k on a 6 year old car......4,000 miles a year, and you KNOW it was babied!

Ranger
01-13-11, 12:29 AM
It's Bronze with Beige interior, like the "Neutral" in my DHS.

P.S. Strangely enough every picture I see of the LeSabre Limited does not have the port holes. This one does. :hmm:

orconn
01-13-11, 12:33 AM
Congratulations on the new Buick, Ranger, sounds like great find. Isn't thta vintage Le Sabre built on the same chassis as the Park Avenue? At anyrate I am sure it will provide great transportaion for your wife and her baggage to the craft shows!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-13-11, 01:09 AM
Congratulations on the new Buick, Ranger, sounds like great find. Isn't thta vintage Le Sabre built on the same chassis as the Park Avenue? At anyrate I am sure it will provide great transportaion for your wife and her baggage to the craft shows!

Yes, they're both G-Bodies.


P.S. Strangely enough every picture I see of the LeSabre Limited does not have the port holes. This one does. :hmm:

The only Buicks from those years that had portholes were the 04-05 Park Avenue Ultras, and the base Park Avenues with some special package had 'em too for a couple of years. Yours are aftermarket.

Ranger
01-13-11, 01:00 PM
I kind of thought they might be aftermarket. They do set the car off rather nicely. I'm not big on that aftermarket stuff, but I kind of like the look since it looks factory.

Stingroo
01-13-11, 01:21 PM
Ahem.


:postpics:

Jesda
01-13-11, 01:29 PM
I'm surprised the Lesabre came with that much equipment

pics or it never happened!

hueterm
01-13-11, 01:41 PM
Just about the only thing you couldn't get were bucket seats and the S/C 3800... And I think the PA had more fake wood.

drewsdeville
01-13-11, 04:42 PM
Funny, my grandpa just replaced his '00 Silverado with an '09. He keeps it looking good and is very proud of it, unlike grandma's Lesabre that's really looking shabby and isn't doing so hot mechanically at this point (just getting old).

When I saw it, I just had to get him a "My other vehicle is a Lesabre" bumper sticker as a gag gift for Christmas. Of course, after seeing those bumper stickers I kind of snicker every time I hear of/see a Lesabre now.

But, that doesn't take away from the fact that they are great value cars. Sounds like a nice car. Really a sensible replacement since it's kind of similar to the Bonneville you loved so much as far as size and parking goes.

Ranger
01-13-11, 11:25 PM
Upon further investigation it is "Cashmere". It seems to be pretty well optioned. Here's the RPO list (ELC is not mentioned so I can only guess it in one of those "option packages", whatever they are).

Found 25,761 vehicles matching your year and model in our database.
RPO Description Matches
UA6 THEFT DETERRENT SYSTEM ANTI-THEFT(UA6)
UB7 CLUSTER,INSTRUMENT,TEMP,TRIP ODOM,TACH,DR INFO CTR TRIP ODOM(UB7)
UE1 COMMUNICATION SYSTEM VEHICLE, G.P.S. 1 GPS 1 VEH COMM SYS(UE1)
UG1 OPENER GARAGE DOOR, UNIVERSAL UNIVERSAL GARAGE DR OPENER(UG1)
UJ2 INDICATOR ENGINE OIL LIFE ENG OIL LIFE IND(UJ2)
UK3 ELECTRONIC SYSTEM,ACCESSORY CONTROL ELEK ACSRY CONT SYS(UK3)
UP0 RADIO AM/FM STEREO, SEEK/SCAN, AUTO REV MUSIC SEARCH CASS, CD, AUTO TONE, CLOCK, ETR. STEREO,AM/FM W/AUTO REV CASSETTE,CD,AUTO TONE(UP0)
UV6 DISPLAY,HEADUP HEAD UP DISPLAY(UV6)
UV7 ANTENNA, RR WINDOW, RADIO ANTENNA,RR WDO(UV7)
UW6 SPEAKER SYSTEM,6,DUAL FRONT DOOR TWEETER & WOOFER,DUAL EXTENDED RANGE 6 SPKR SYS(UW6)
U2K DIGITAL AUDIO SYSTEM S-BAND DIGITAL S-BAND AUDIO SYS(U2K)
VCL CERTIFICATION EMISSION, CLEAN FUEL VEHICLE, FLEET FLEET CLEAN FUEL EMIS(VCL)
VH9 ENVELOPE,OWNER INFORMATION MANUAL OWNER INFO MAN ENV(VH9)
VM3 LABEL INFORMATION CONSUMER, CONTAINS BPR IMP STANDARD FOR FRT 5 MPH & RR 5 MPH 5 MPH BUMPER INFO LABEL(VM3)
V73 VEHICLE STATEMENT - US/CANADA US/CANADA VEHICLE STATEMENT(V73)
WH8 Unk.
Y56 Unk.
ZV1 Unk.
1SE PACKAGE OPTION 05 (1SE) (anyone know what these 3 packages are?)
SALES PACKAGE SALES PKG(1SE)
1SZ PACKAGE OPTION- (1SZ)
15U EXTERIOR COLOR,CASHMERE METALLIC (15U)
EXTERIOR COLOR,PRIMARY (15U)
31I INTERIOR TRIM LT CASHMERE (04) (31I)
314 TRIM COMBINATION LEATHER, LT CASHMERE (4) (04) (314)
6CL COMPONENT FRT LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (6CL) SUSP(6CL) (what are these 4 codes?)
7CL COMPONENT FRT RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (7CL) SUSP(7CL)
8CW COMPONENT RR LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (8CW) SUSP(8CW)
9CW COMPONENT RR RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (9CW) SUSP(9CW)
AJ7 RESTRAINT SYSTEM FRT SEAT, INFLATABLE, DRIVER AND PASSENGER, FRT & SIDE INFL RST FRT & SI(AJ7)
AL9 CONTROL SEAT, POWER LUMBAR, DRIVER CONT PWR LUM,D/SEAT(AL9)
AM6 SEAT,FRONT SPLIT,3 PASSENGER WITH CENTER ARMREST FRT SPLIT ST(AM6)
AP9 NET,CONVENIENCE CONVENIENCE NET(AP9)
A45 MEMORY SEAT ADJUSTER, MIRROR, POWER, DRIVER & ENHANCED MEMORY PERSONALIZATION MEMORY MIR AND ST ADJ(A45)
B19 ORNAMENTATION,INTERIOR(CUSTOM) CUSTOM INTR(B19)
B57 ORNAMENTATION,EXTERIOR TRIM(DELUXE) DELUXE EXTR TR(B57)
CD2 INDICATOR,WINDSHIELD WASHER FLUID LOW FLUID IND(CD2)
CE1 WIPER SYSTEM WINDSHIELD, PULSE, MOISTURE SENSITIVE W/S WPR,PULSE MOISTURE SENSITIVE(CE1)
CJ2 HVAC SYSTEM AIR CONDITIONER FRT, AUTO TEMP CONT, AUX TEMP CONT A/C FRT AUTO/AUX CONT(CJ2)
DEH PLANT CODE - DETROIT/HAMTRAMCK, MI, BOC HAMTRAMCK, MI PLANT(DEH)
DE7 MIRROR,O/S LH & RH REMOTE CONTROL,HEATED,BREAKAWAY,T/SIG INDICATOR ELEC O/S MIR W/TURN SIG IND & HTR(DE7)
F41 SUSPENSION,FIRM RIDE HANDLING,FRONT AND REAR FIRM RIDE & HANDLING SUSP(F41)
F83 RATIO TRANSAXLE FINAL DRIVE 3.05 3.05R(F83)
IQ4 TRIM,INTERIOR DESIGN(Q4) (IQ4)
JL4 CONTROL ACTIVE BRAKE ACTIVE BRAKE CONTROL(JL4)
JL9 BRAKE SYSTEM,POWER,FRONT AND REAR DISC,ANTILOCK FRT & RR DISC ANTILOCK BRK(JL9)
KG9 GENERATOR,140 AMPERE 140 AMP(KG9)
L36 ENGINE GAS, 6 CYL, 3.8K, MFI, V6, HO (ERV6 SERIES) 3.8K(L36)
MX0 TRANSMISSION,AUTOMATIC,OVERDRIVE(MERCHANDISING OPTION) A/TRANS PROVISIONS(MX0)
M15 TRANSMISSION,AUTO 4 SPD,HMD,4T65-E ENHANCED ELECTRONIC 4-SPD A/TRANS(M15)
NF4 EMISSION SYSTEM FEDERAL, LEV FEDERAL EMIS(NF4) (Only 26 of these made ????)
NP5 STEERING WHEEL,LEATHER WRAPPED LEATHER WRAPPED STRG WHL(NP5)
NW9 TRACTION CONTROL ELECTRONIC ELEC TRACTION CONT(NW9)
PY1 WHEEL 16 X 6.5, ALUMINUM, CHROME AL WHL(PY1)
QPX TIRE ALL P225/60R16 BW R/PE ST TL ALS 97S TIRE(QPX)
R4W TIRE BRAND ALL MICHELIN TIRE BRAND(R4W)
R6J Unk.
R9Q Unk.
SLM Unk.

Not the best pics, but best I could do.

ben.gators
01-13-11, 11:43 PM
I guess rims are after market, right?

hueterm
01-13-11, 11:51 PM
I think those were the Limited chromes...

Ranger
01-13-11, 11:52 PM
:noidea: BTSOM

Destroyer
01-14-11, 12:05 AM
I never liked Buicks. Not really, aside from the mighty 400 and 455 powered GS models of the 60's and early 70's and then of course the awesome Grand Nationals of the 80's. Buick is a division I think GM should have done away with rather than Pontiac or Oldsmobile for that matter. It is offensive that GM did away with Oldsmobile and Pontiac but Buick still lives. Of the B.O.P. trio the O and the P were my favorites. Buicks were and still are extremely boring to look at and lack any distinction. They are just "there" like they always were with a target audience that really lacks automotive enthusiasm. I'm sure this is gonna be great car for you but it ain't for me. Good luck with it!

Stingroo
01-14-11, 12:12 AM
6CL COMPONENT FRT LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (6CL) SUSP(6CL) (what are these 4 codes?)
7CL COMPONENT FRT RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (7CL) SUSP(7CL)
8CW COMPONENT RR LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (8CW) SUSP(8CW)
9CW COMPONENT RR RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (9CW) SUSP(9CW)



Those are the ELC I believe.


And those are DEFINITELY aftermarket portholes. :p

Ranger
01-14-11, 12:14 AM
I certainly did not buy it for it's body style. It IS somewhat stodgy (but I don't have to drive it), but it was very low miles, extremely well equipped, "full sized", quiet, comfortable, had the reliable 3800 (that I am familiar with and has served me well for the last 12-13 years) and the price was right, at least I thought so.

Ranger
01-14-11, 12:16 AM
6CL COMPONENT FRT LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (6CL) SUSP(6CL) (what are these 4 codes?)
7CL COMPONENT FRT RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (7CL) SUSP(7CL)
8CW COMPONENT RR LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (8CW) SUSP(8CW)
9CW COMPONENT RR RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (9CW) SUSP(9CW)



Those are the ELC I believe.


And those are DEFINITELY aftermarket portholes. :p

ELC in front? Are you saying it has active suspension? Lord I hope not.

orconn
01-14-11, 12:19 AM
I have always liked Buicks, but for some reason always leaned toward Oldsmobiles. I think my preference stems from the "Dyna-flow" automatic trans used in the Buicks of the fifties verses the the "Hydramatic" auto used in the Olds and Cadillacs. But that was a long time ago!

I think it was a great buy and a great choice for the wife.

hueterm
01-14-11, 12:26 AM
I like Buicks, and have owned several. I look forward to picking up a Lucerne CXS or Super N* at some point in the future as a cruiser/mileage burner. It would be the logical replacement for the Concours -- especially if I get an STS-V.

Aron9000
01-14-11, 12:53 AM
Just about the only thing you couldn't get were bucket seats and the S/C 3800... And I think the PA had more fake wood.

I don't know why anybody would want bucket seats on a Buick like yours. Full size American sedan=bench seat. Just feels like you got more wiggle room, even if that center front perch is kind of useless except for kids.


I think old fogey mobiles are some of the greatest used car buys right now. RWD Caddies, Buicks of any sort, Grand Marquis, Crown Vics, Toyota Avalons, Town Cars, you can find 10-20 year old examples of these with stupid low miles in nice shape for CHEAP!!! And all those old fogey cars run great and are just as reliable as the stupid Honda Civic you can buy for the same $$$

ben.gators
01-14-11, 01:00 AM
Buick fills the gap between GM's luxury brand, Cadillac, and GM's brand for middle class families, Chevy. Buick is for the people that are looking for something more than a Chevy, but not as expensive as Cadillac!

GM really needs this brand to compete with other entry-level luxury brands.

Anyway, returning back to the thread, I really think this car totally fits the needs of Larry and his wife. It is roomy and safe, it has reliable powertrain, and comes with tons of options and comfort features, has reasonable gas millage, and well it might not be sporty or attractive enough for a teenager, but it is totally classy for a lady...

hueterm
01-14-11, 01:03 AM
I don't know why anybody would want bucket seats on a Buick like yours. Full size American sedan=bench seat. Just feels like you got more wiggle room, even if that center front perch is kind of useless except for kids.


I think old fogey mobiles are some of the greatest used car buys right now. RWD Caddies, Buicks of any sort, Grand Marquis, Crown Vics, Toyota Avalons, Town Cars, you can find 10-20 year old examples of these with stupid low miles in nice shape for CHEAP!!! And all those old fogey cars run great and are just as reliable as the stupid Honda Civic you can buy for the same $$$

I do like how the PA Ultra had the optional buckets with the partial center console, and column shifter. I like the center console to put crap in.

ben.gators
01-14-11, 01:08 AM
+1 for bucket seats.... "wiggle room", hum, yeah, bench rooms were standard for old classic full sized cars, but bucket seats fits the body better and the person feels more comfortable instead of wiggling around... However I believe this is some sort of personal preference

Aron9000
01-14-11, 01:11 AM
I do like how the PA Ultra had the optional buckets with the partial center console, and column shifter. I like the center console to put crap in.

The arm rest on my Brougham opens up and had a cupholder which broke like every other GM cupholder ever made. Ford had it figured out on the last gen Taurus though. The top armrest opened up for storage, then the bottom cushion opened up two ways, one compartment with storage, another with two very nice, sturdy cupholders. Wish they could've copied that design into the Grand Marquis, it still has those two stupid fold down armrests with no storage.

Jesda
01-14-11, 01:37 AM
I guess it depends on the type of bucket seat. The ones in my Seville lack sufficient side bolsters so I may as well be in a bench seat.

gdwriter
01-14-11, 01:55 AM
Sounds like an excellent choice, Larry. Is is the same basic platform as the Park Avenue, as well as the DeVille, DTS and Seville. I think the portholes only came on the final Park Avenues, but a dealer probably added them to the LeSabre. Hope it gives her plenty of satisfied miles.

Playdrv4me
01-14-11, 02:50 AM
ELC in front? Are you saying it has active suspension? Lord I hope not.

From my research, this option code label is mis-leading. "COMPUTER SEL" does not mean that YOU have a suspension computer, but rather that the GM production system "selected" these dampers for each of the four corners. You do NOT have ELC in the front, and likely not even in the back.

Ranger
01-14-11, 06:25 PM
Is is the same basic platform as the Park Avenue, as well as the DeVille, DTS and Seville.
:noidea: Same as the Park Avenue I think, but not sure about the others.


You do NOT have ELC in the front, and likely not even in the back.
I DOES have ELC. I can hear the compressor run at start up.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-14-11, 08:33 PM
Yeah, but aren't the automatic self-inflating rear struts different from the electronic suspension used in the STS and DTS?

Ranger
01-14-11, 09:44 PM
Yes.

mhamilton
01-15-11, 11:10 AM
6CL COMPONENT FRT LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (6CL) SUSP(6CL) (what are these 4 codes?)
7CL COMPONENT FRT RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (7CL) SUSP(7CL)
8CW COMPONENT RR LH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (8CW) SUSP(8CW)
9CW COMPONENT RR RH COMPUTER SEL SUSP (9CW) SUSP(9CW)


These are just "computer selected springs." GM has been doing that since the '70s, used to be advertised in the brochures. Just means springs (and apparently shocks) were selected based on your equipment options.

You have the F41 suspension, that was the old A-body "sport" suspension designation... no F45 active system!

I believe the ELC must fall in 2 of the 4 suspension RPOs. It's not even listed separately on my RPO list for the Eldo.

Nice looking ride, Ranger! I didn't even know Buick had the LeSabre in '05, I like it :) Hope you get many trouble free miles out of it!

Ranger
01-15-11, 12:02 PM
'05 was apparently the last year for the LeSabre. It was replaced by the Lucerne.

Submariner409
01-15-11, 12:28 PM
Larry, The "1SE" RPO and similar are dealer order packages - It's sort of a "bundle" - one "1Sx" RPO might have this radio and those seats. Another similar RPO package might have that radio and these seats. It's the reason a salesman can say "Well, Ma'am, I have the another car of the same model that you're sitting in - out on the lot, but it has a different interior (or wheels, or leather, or sunroof, or HID). Let's go take a look."

FWIW, My STS has the "computer sel suspension component" codes also.

hueterm
01-15-11, 12:55 PM
'05 was apparently the last year for the LeSabre. It was replaced by the Lucerne.

With debatable results..... You sure don't see as many Lucernes as you did PAs and LeSabres combined......

Playdrv4me
01-15-11, 03:00 PM
:noidea: Same as the Park Avenue I think, but not sure about the others.


I DOES have ELC. I can hear the compressor run at start up.

Well, it's definitely not any kind of fancy electronic suspension, which is good. As for the ELC in the back, the way GM does self-leveling suspension is a much more reliable execution than the way Ford does it (fully supported on air bags, which means if the bag goes, it goes to the bumpstops).

ben.gators
01-15-11, 03:31 PM
With debatable results..... You sure don't see as many Lucernes as you did PAs and LeSabres combined......

Yeah, Also you don't see as many Lacrosse as you did Regal and Century combined.... Buick miserably failed in replacing old relatively successful models with new ones! The only exception that comes to my mind is Enclave. I am waiting to see how well the new Lacrosse and Regal will do?!

hueterm
01-15-11, 11:53 PM
And a new Commodore based "Electra" would be nice too...

Stingroo
01-16-11, 04:05 AM
"Lucerne" should have been called Eighty-Eight.

Just sayin'. Olds > Buick.

greencadillacmatt
01-16-11, 04:25 AM
"Lucerne" should have been called Eighty-Eight.

Just sayin'. Olds > Buick.

Finally someone gets it!

Jesda
01-16-11, 08:19 AM
Bob Lutz wanted to pay homage to his Swiss heritage. Names like Seville, Riviera, and the like give the impression of luxury because they're named after attractive cities, but no one in the US has heard of Lucerne, Switzerland.

http://www.coolfamily.com/images/Lucerne2.jpg

billc83
01-16-11, 08:47 AM
Whenever I hear Lucerne, I think:

http://shop.safeway.com/productimages/200x200/137050115_200x200.jpg

hueterm
01-16-11, 10:48 AM
I think of the restaurant in the Westport Sheraton Chalet in St. Louis...which when I was a teenager was actually a decent restaurant...

Jesda
01-16-11, 10:48 AM
Same here. And then I imagine Buick's interpretation to be a jug of milk.

orconn
01-16-11, 12:04 PM
Well. I guess GM was on the right track with their alphanumeric model designations! It's ashame American primary and secondary education neglects geographic education to the point of producing ignorant students in this (?) area of knowledge. A quick visit to the evening local news reveals other lapses in American education; not only do the news writers and readers not know their domestic and international geography, their English grammar shows a lack of mastery as well!

Submariner409
01-16-11, 12:33 PM
no one in the US has heard of Lucerne, Switzerland.

http://www.coolfamily.com/images/Lucerne2.jpg


Not "no one"..............been there. Lovely city.

Jesda
01-16-11, 12:58 PM
http://www.nofluoride.com/images/lucerne_milk.gif

Luxury :cool:

Aron9000
01-17-11, 10:54 PM
Also, LaCrosse is apparently a slang term in the dialogue of French spoke in Quebec. It means "self pleasure":jerkit::jerkit::jerkit:

So that model is called the Buick Allure in Canada.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-18-11, 12:54 AM
With that being said, I played Lacrosse when I was in the 7th grade.

And I excelled at it.

Jesda
01-18-11, 08:20 AM
http://imganuncios.mitula.net/2009_buick_lacrosse_cxl_lawton_ok_11875823.jpg
I saw a CXL at the grocery store yesterday. As a CXL it was attractive in a blending-in sort of way. I took a quick peek inside and at least from 5 feet away, the interior seemed pleasant. These are W-bodies right? I can't imagine them being very interesting to drive.

Aron9000
01-18-11, 09:30 AM
http://imganuncios.mitula.net/2009_buick_lacrosse_cxl_lawton_ok_11875823.jpg
I saw a CXL at the grocery store yesterday. As a CXL it was attractive in a blending-in sort of way. I took a quick peek inside and at least from 5 feet away, the interior seemed pleasant. These are W-bodies right? I can't imagine them being very interesting to drive.

The dash is sort of a GM take on Jaguar. Lots of nice looking fake wood across the dash, really reminds me of a 91-93 Roadmaster.

Jesda
01-18-11, 12:32 PM
http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/02/19/01/53/2008_buick_lacrosse_cxs-pic-17848.jpeg
http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/02/19/01/53/2008_buick_lacrosse_cxs-pic-17848.jpeg

Yeah I guess thats not bad. It looks like a cheaper version of a 1995 Continental inside. GM must still be trying to make up for all the money the W-bodys lost in the 90s. I cant believe the platform dragged on for as long as it did.

Stingroo
01-18-11, 12:38 PM
:noidea: Looks plenty nice inside to me. Only thing I miss about newer cars is defined spaces for the radio. How on earth does one put an aftermarket unit into that thing?

drewsdeville
01-18-11, 01:23 PM
:noidea: Looks plenty nice inside to me. Only thing I miss about newer cars is defined spaces for the radio. How on earth does one put an aftermarket unit into that thing?

Who needs one anymore? Most of the OEM units are far better than most aftermarket anyway.

Back before the '80's and maybe some of the '90's I'd agree, but most factory sound systems sound FANTASTIC and offer the connectivity to use most external media. I honestly can't think of any reason to swap out for aftermarket. It would most likely end up being a downgrade rather than an upgrade.

Jesda
01-18-11, 01:51 PM
I personally like the wood sweeping across the dash. Looks classy, but some prefer a more muted BMW look. Without the wide expanse of faux wood, I think the Lacrosse's interior looked hardly different from a Saturn Aura. That's of course a non-issue now since the new Lacrosse is quite well made inside and out.

And thanks to MP3 jacks and some decent amps a lot of luxury cars these days sound pretty darn good. But when you get down to the level of Chevrolet, lesser-optioned Buicks, and Toyotas, they tend to sound muddy with a lot of fake bass to compensate. A lot of OEM applications also use paper cones which in theory reproduce sound more accurately but rot after a few years. BMW sound systems are typically terrible (with a few exceptions if you're willing to blow a grand or more to upgrade). Saabs over the past decade have had pretty piss poor GM sound systems.

The system in my E46 convertible was awful. I've had clock radios that sounded better.

The JL Clean Sweep is a reasonable option for people stuck with junky OEM setups, but its more complicated than a quick HU and speaker swap. And in my Seville, even if you install an aftermarket Pioneer double-din navigation system, you have to relocate the factory head unit to the trunk and keep it connected or the car will freak out.

orconn
01-18-11, 02:08 PM
http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/02/19/01/53/2008_buick_lacrosse_cxs-pic-17848.jpeg
http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/02/19/01/53/2008_buick_lacrosse_cxs-pic-17848.jpeg

Yeah I guess thats not bad. It looks like a cheaper version of a 1995 Continental inside. GM must still be trying to make up for all the money the W-bodys lost in the 90s. I cant believe the platform dragged on for as long as it did.

Call me dated (and I'm sure you will!!!), but I like this dash. Done in good quality materials I would be quite happy with it. I don't care for the overlapping tach and speedometer, I had these on my wife's Catera and prefer full circular gauges.

To me this dash and interior are tasteful and the absence of the "boombox" center stack treatment is a great relief from contemporary design. IMO a design does not have to be innovative if it s functional and displays classic good taste.

ben.gators
01-18-11, 03:26 PM
^
+1 for Orconn's post... Well, this is not the most beautiful and elegant dash that has been built so far, but well, it is not bad at all in its class and league. Take a look to the other cars in that segment of market, e.g. Camry and its dash and compare it with Lacrosse!

Ranger
01-18-11, 04:23 PM
http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/02/19/01/53/2008_buick_lacrosse_cxs-pic-17848.jpeg
http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/02/19/01/53/2008_buick_lacrosse_cxs-pic-17848.jpeg

Yeah I guess thats not bad. It looks like a cheaper version of a 1995 Continental inside. GM must still be trying to make up for all the money the W-bodys lost in the 90s. I cant believe the platform dragged on for as long as it did.

Don't let my wife see that. She's not thrilled with the bench seat and column shift, she's a creature of habit but she'll get used to it.

Make that +2 for Orconn's post.

Playdrv4me
01-18-11, 04:23 PM
:noidea: Looks plenty nice inside to me. Only thing I miss about newer cars is defined spaces for the radio. How on earth does one put an aftermarket unit into that thing?

The aftermarket ALWAYS finds a way. Back when the '95 Taurus came out there was almost a lawsuit because of the proprietary ovoid "combo" radio and climate control panel. Soon after that, the aftermarket ended up producing a panel with the climate controls on the bottom, and a square cutout for an aftermarket HU on the top. That's probably the most complex solution I've ever seen as they had to include climate controls on it (rotary ones), but for something like this LaCrosse it would be easy, they just give you a big wide filler panel for that space with either a double-DIN (would look best to fill the space) or single-DIN opening.

Drew is correct to an extent about aftermarket stereos, but not entirely. For someone willing to make a SERIOUS investment in an aftermarket system, the results can blow away ANYTHING a manufacturer can pop out by the thousands because they build to a cost. A good example of this is the horrid Mark Levinson systems in Lexus products. A lot of guys rip out the entire system and start over with new speakers. For the dash, they have to come up with an interesting solution on the cars with Nav (as most do) because the Toyota Nav in the LS for examples also controls the climate system. So what they do? They just put their headunit in UNDERNEATH the factory Nav screen removing only the stereo "brain" from that spot but leaving the Nav screen up above. So yes, there are TWO screens.

Stingroo
01-18-11, 04:38 PM
Yo dawg, we herd u laik screens....


And yeah, I think that Lacrosse's interior looks good. New car shoppers are so strange.

Playdrv4me
01-18-11, 04:53 PM
I think that interior would look GREAT in black. I really don't like grey in anything other than German cars.