: Pontiac Northstar



ben72227
09-25-04, 12:14 AM
Why did Cadillac let Pontiac use the Northstar? AND put Pontiac logo on it??? Couldn't Pontiac make their own engine, and not have to drag Cadillac's reputation through the ground?

Ralph
09-25-04, 12:22 AM
I think Pontiac has a long history of borrowing engines and the last true Pontiac engine might have been the 301 in 1981. Even our Pontiac Phoenix has a Chev 2.8 V6 in it. I think in the 1960's they had their own engines. Even the Trans Am of the 80's and '90's used the Chev 5.0 and 5.7.

Mikethegreeat
09-25-04, 01:35 AM
Why did Cadillac let Pontiac use the Northstar? AND put Pontiac logo on it??? Couldn't Pontiac make their own engine, and not have to drag Cadillac's reputation through the ground?


think about how the Vette and Camaro guys felt when they heard that the LS1-LS6 was going to be stuffed in some "old mans car" (CTS-V) Sharing is caring :D

CadiJeff
09-25-04, 02:25 AM
Why waste $$$ on a new design when the perfect design already exists. Besides mabe it will be good for both Pontiac and Cadillac.

BeelzeBob
09-25-04, 02:31 AM
think about how the Vette and Camaro guys felt when they heard that the LS1-LS6 was going to be stuffed in some "old mans car" (CTS-V) Sharing is caring :D
...and before that, the LT1 in the Fleetwood. :D

Spyder
09-25-04, 02:35 AM
I'm desperately hoping that this will cause some aftermarket companies to make something more for my STS...I'd love to have it down in the low 13's without destroying the "caddy-ness" of it.

CadiJeff
09-25-04, 02:40 AM
I'm desperately hoping that this will cause some aftermarket companies to make something more for my STS...I'd love to have it down in the low 13's without destroying the "caddy-ness" of it.

AB-SO-FRAGGIN-LOOTLY!

gothicaleigh
09-25-04, 02:44 AM
Settle down.
It's the first generation 275hp Northstar. Cadillac doesn't even use that version of the engine anymore. Now we have 320hp VVT RWD Northstars. Pontiac can have our 10 year old technology. :D


Don't forget that the Olds Aurora had a 4.0L 250hp Northstar. Sharing inferior versions of the Caddy engine isn't anything new.

CadiJeff
09-25-04, 02:55 AM
just because it is old dosn't mean it shouldn't be used........how long was the 350 SBC in production?

Leloz
09-25-04, 09:53 AM
It was an easy way for GM to introduce a "medium" between the Cadillac line and it's base model cars. The Bonneville shares the same chassis as the Seville and they just dug into the parts bin to come up with the GXP. It is a fairly good looking car like the SSEI and gives more power output than the supercharged 3800 Series II.

Sandy
09-25-04, 10:33 AM
I think it's a heck of a bargin and a terrific looking car, as well a terrific car in general. Great engine + great looks + great size & comfort for under $37,000. DUH..... ;)

Leloz
09-25-04, 10:44 AM
I am good friends with the manager of Greenbrier Pontiac and he says they have been selling them for around $33K after discounts :thumbsup:

http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/7f/d0/ee_3.JPG

ben72227
09-25-04, 02:34 PM
well, i guess its okay to let them borrow it. But did they REALLY just have to put their logo on it???:

http://www.pontiac.com/bonneville/images/ctx_photo_int2.jpg

STS 310
09-25-04, 06:36 PM
General Motors.

Sandy
09-26-04, 01:41 PM
They got a white version that I like alot better than that color! White wheels and CHROME grille, and white spoiler and white paint and lots of little special touches. I'd take it over any LeSabre, Interpid or Concorde !

gothicaleigh
09-26-04, 02:45 PM
Ah, but it's main competitor is the 300C.
I would take that over the GXP.

Night Wolf
09-26-04, 04:32 PM
well, i guess its okay to let them borrow it. But did they REALLY just have to put their logo on it???:

http://www.pontiac.com/bonneville/images/ctx_photo_int2.jpg

Check out this Cadillac-built LS6:

http://carad.ebayimg.com/i20/02/a/02/80/d0/0e_4.JPG

oh... wait, it is a Chevy enigne.... with a Cadillac badge?!?

Goes both ways.... would you perfer the wreath and crest on the engine in the poncho? I think it is fitting....

.... it is just 1 car... actually, 1 trim on that 1 car that this enigne is in... it is still pretty exclusive to Cadillac... think of it as a current day Aurora... Olds is now gone, so maybe the GXP kinda took the Aurora's place in offering the NorthStar in a car cheaper then a Caddy....

... if this means more demand for aftermarket parts.... then that is always a good thing :)

startacus
09-29-04, 04:17 PM
Does this mean the older Northstar owners now can get new Northstars for their old cars? I wonder if they will adapt..

Night Wolf
09-29-04, 08:33 PM
Does this mean the older Northstar owners now can get new Northstars for their old cars? I wonder if they will adapt..

? GM has, and still sells the orignal NorthStar....

startacus
09-29-04, 10:31 PM
I know that, Night Wolf, but this version must be improved somewhat from the first ones, even though horsepower and displacement figures are identical. Unless this is the actual engine without mods, there may be something interesting for the original N* owners to look out for from many years of 'test vehicle' research.

Night Wolf
09-29-04, 11:14 PM
eh, I am willing to bet nothing is changed....

..I know back in the day, Pontiac would tune the engine they got more... example, even thought he Trans Am had a Chevy 350, they woudl tune it a little so it was actually faster then a Camero SS....

...in the case of this N*, I am pretty sure the only thing they did change was that enigne cover.... and the gear... lower hp N*= mre tourqe at lower RPM.... normally the LD8 is teamed with the laid back gearing for highway driving, but in the Boonie, it has the gearing of the L37.... more aggressive... so while less hp, it has slightly more torque, at a much lower RPM... that and the aggressive gearing means that when you hit the go pedal in the GXP, there is going to be some pretty extreme lateral movment :coolgleam

startacus
09-29-04, 11:28 PM
Everybody wanted a black Trans AM when Burt Reynolds had it. Now most wouldn't touch it unless it were fully restored. The words "Pontiac" and "Northstar" seem quite odd when put together. It's almost a tounge twister, and I will surely bet that it will be a fun rollercoaster ride for the buyers but it'll be all downhill for resale values (think: lateral deceleration of the financial kind). I think it's good that GM had the foresight to build a couple of hundred thousand brand new donar cars for us Caddy owners to choose N*'s from for the next 20 years or so. Arguably, I don't think this one will be the collector's item my grandson will talk about. Would love to romp one 'round da block though..

Leloz
09-29-04, 11:42 PM
Funny thing you mentioned the "Bandit" Trans Am... it had the Oldsmobile 6.6 liter in it.

A few lucky owners got the Pontiac version with the 4spd manual tranny.

Anthony Cipriano
09-30-04, 12:03 AM
The Northstar used in the GXP is exactly the same Northstar as is used in the Cadillacs. Exact same part number. The same car plant (Detroit Hamtramck) makes both the FWD Cadillacs and the Bonneville. The engines for both are the same part number and end up in a Bonneville GXP or a Cadillac purely by the choice of the operator loading them from racks.

The unique thing about the GXP is that it's the only application where the 275 HP LD8 engine is mated to the 4T80E trans with the 3.71:1 final drive. This gives the GXP excellent off the line performance and low speed acceleration. The LD8 shifts at 6500rpm in the GXP (compared to 6000rpm in the Cadillacs) for extra performance. It can handle the higher upshifts with the low backpressure exhaust system on the GXP (special for that car) which lets the engine rev a little more freely.