: What is going ON with BUICK?!



Lord Cadillac
01-06-11, 11:22 AM
The 2012 Buick Verano (http://buickmagazine.com/blog/2011/01/06/buick-introduces-the-all-new-2012-verano/)... (click the link for details)

We all know what a disaster compact luxury has been for GM in the past - but this is a really nice car.. Times have certainly changed - and Buick is really on a roll...

http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_04.jpg
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_05.jpg
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_0a.jpg
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_0b.jpg
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_0c.jpg

mhamilton
01-06-11, 11:32 AM
That does look quite nice. Is it based on the Cruze platform?

Lord Cadillac
01-06-11, 11:34 AM
Yes.. If this is what we're seeing from Buick, I'm very anxious to see what's coming for Cadillac.. I think the ATS is going to be really, really nice..


That does look quite nice. Is it based on the Cruze platform?

Stingroo
01-06-11, 11:47 AM
I think that's a really good looking car. I like the Cruze too.

But I have to ask about this car - what in the holy hell is up with those funky door panels? :lol:

Lord Cadillac
01-06-11, 11:53 AM
The door panels ARE a little weird but they'll probably grow on us... These days you really can't do anything different or unique without some people thinking it's bad...


I think that's a really good looking car. I like the Cruze too.

But I have to ask about this car - what in the holy hell is up with those funky door panels? :lol:

mhamilton
01-06-11, 11:58 AM
I'm still wondering what GM is thinking with these EcoTec engines... 2.4L, 4 valve, VVT, DI, and a 6 speed auto. 31 mpg hwy? That's not exactly good. 22 city isn't anything to write home about either. The Buick 3.8 could do that and with more power 10 years ago.

I've always liked my friend's '08 Cobalt, if I wanted a small car. They are very nice cars aside from the poor mpg. Though I just noticed those little quarter windows in the A pillar on the Verano/Cruze... that's kinda tacky in my opinion. Too much like the Prius and Versa and all those cars. At least it's blacked out from the outside.

Stingroo
01-06-11, 12:18 PM
The door panels ARE a little weird but they'll probably grow on us... These days you really can't do anything different or unique without some people thinking it's bad...

It's been that way for centuries....

C&C
01-06-11, 01:15 PM
It looks like the next step (if the Cruze LTZ just isn't enough) or Chevrolet is just a little too pedestrian for your tastes. I'm thinking I like all of GM's new small cars; Cruze, Verano and the ATS. Wonder which I'll be able to afford if I go that route (that last question is rhetorical for all you wise guys out there). :spin:

drewsdeville
01-06-11, 01:17 PM
I'm still wondering what GM is thinking with these EcoTec engines... 2.4L, 4 valve, VVT, DI, and a 6 speed auto. 31 mpg hwy? That's not exactly good. 22 city isn't anything to write home about either. The Buick 3.8 could do that and with more power 10 years ago.

I've always liked my friend's '08 Cobalt, if I wanted a small car. They are very nice cars aside from the poor mpg. Though I just noticed those little quarter windows in the A pillar on the Verano/Cruze... that's kinda tacky in my opinion. Too much like the Prius and Versa and all those cars. At least it's blacked out from the outside.

31? I agree if that's actually what it will get.

My girlfriend and I got 36mpg on a recent road trip in her 2.4 '09 Malibu. I think it's even rated mid-30's. That's without DI. Not sure what the deal is with that Buick. Heavier? Different gear ratios?

EDIT: A LOT of that car, especially the interior, looks very similar to the newer Malibus. Is this the new Buick-Malibu?

The Tony Show
01-06-11, 01:22 PM
GM's finally taking lessons from Toyota on how to double your investment in a platform by PROPERLY sharing it among brands. Instead a just badge swap, there's been enough work put into the exterior and interior to justify a higher price and differentiate it from the Cruze.

Well done.

mhamilton
01-06-11, 01:52 PM
31? My girlfriend and I got 36mpg on a recent road trip in her 2.4 '09 Malibu. I think it's even rated for 35. That's without DI. Those might be even better.

The article in the link says 31 mpg hwy:

"An Ecotec 2.4L and six-speed automatic powertrain combination is standard and delivers an estimated 177 horsepower (132 kW) and 170 lb.-ft. torque (230 Nm), 0-60 mph performance of 8.0 seconds and an estimated 31 mpg on the highway. A 2.0L turbo engine will be offered in the future."

The 2.2L in the aforementioned Cobalt I know has never seen better than 31 hwy. I would certainly expect engines that small to get mid to high 30s, I know the Focus was up there, the small Japanese cars certainly are. Don't know why these Ecotec are so low.


I'm very anxious to see what's coming for Cadillac.. I think the ATS is going to be really, really nice..

So what is Cadillac going to do with the ATS and CTS? Please don't tell me the CTS is going to be called a mid-size car :hmm:

Stingroo
01-06-11, 03:53 PM
I think I read somewhere that the CTS was going to grow a little bit.

orconn
01-06-11, 05:50 PM
Is it just me or does that Buick look awfully small inside? I am only 5'9" and 160 pounds and I look at those pictures feel pinched for room. As for the materials I've given up trying to judge materials quality from advertising pictures. The interior does seem to have a lot of seams that could go wrong with less than (to date Detroit level of assembly quality) conscientious attention to assembly (a fault with the '98 to '04 Sevilles). Maybe the car would benefit from being seen in person (I hope so), but the pictures above look very "frumpy" and "old maidish" to me, about as sporty or sexy as a pregnant roller skate! Sorry guys, but I gotta call 'em like I see 'em!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-06-11, 06:54 PM
I really like it! Looks like a dead ringer for the Regal on the inside, at 9/10ths scale. It's nice to see (like Tony said) GM take hints from Toyota on how to properly share a car's platform across different brands, without it looking cheap and tacky. Would this be a modern day version of the Skylark/Skyhawk?

I have to admit, I don't like the sound of a Cadillac ATS. Who else makes a compact, FWD, I-4 luxury sedan? Only thing I can think of is a base Audi A4. I thought they learned their lesson from the Cimarron?

mhamilton
01-06-11, 07:18 PM
It's nice to see (like Tony said) GM take hints from Toyota on how to properly share a car's platform across different brands, without it looking cheap and tacky.

Well GM *used* to know how to do this... look at the '70s and '80s A- (later G-) body: Malibu, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Grand Am, Cutlass, Regal all shared the same chassis, but with different engines, and each had different front clips, rear treatments, interiors, appointments and options. Granted it's a personal opinion as to whether or not those attempts were cheap or tacky, but I think for the time they did a pretty good job differentiating the brands. Also GM used to do it well with the E body, as well as many other platforms.

But without a doubt, the whole J-car affair was a debacle. We sure don't want to see a repeat of the Cimmaron...

gdwriter
01-06-11, 08:46 PM
Except for the angry eyebrows over the taillights, I like it. Better looking than the Cruze (nor does it look like a badge-engineered Cruze from the outside; the dash does look similar). Buicks aren't just for geezers anymore.

Lord Cadillac
01-06-11, 09:40 PM
GM's finally taking lessons from Toyota on how to double your investment in a platform by PROPERLY sharing it among brands. Instead a just badge swap, there's been enough work put into the exterior and interior to justify a higher price and differentiate it from the Cruze.

Well done.

Exactly. There's nothing wrong with using one platform for several vehicles as long as they're different enough. GM has finally learned how to do this.

Lord Cadillac
01-06-11, 09:42 PM
Who told you the ATS was going to be FWD?!



I have to admit, I don't like the sound of a Cadillac ATS. Who else makes a compact, FWD, I-4 luxury sedan? Only thing I can think of is a base Audi A4. I thought they learned their lesson from the Cimarron?

Jesda
01-06-11, 09:50 PM
Well, its a car.

Destroyer
01-06-11, 11:09 PM
The 2012 Buick Verano (http://buickmagazine.com/blog/2011/01/06/buick-introduces-the-all-new-2012-verano/)... (click the link for details)

We all know what a disaster compact luxury has been for GM in the past - but this is a really nice car.. Times have certainly changed - and Buick is really on a roll...

http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_04.jpg
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_05.jpg
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_0a.jpg
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_0b.jpg
http://photo.netcarshow.com/Buick-Verano_2012_photo_0c.jpg
Looks like a Hyundai Sonata on the inside and much of the outside. Buick better copy all Hyundai's other models so they can continue this "roll" that they are on...........:histeric:

Aron9000
01-06-11, 11:35 PM
Looks like a stylish Chevy Cruze(that car is epically boring to look at IMO). I hope this is priced reasonably, I read that a fully optioned out Cruze has an MSRP of $25,000:bonkers:


Also, does anybody else feel like GM is repeating the mid-late 1980's all over again??? I'm talking about in terms of the types of new product being introduced, not the quality or style of the product, which is quite good this time around IMO.

In the 80's, GM was focused on downsizing everything, lots of new small cars, while they let the big Brougham, Caprice, Suburban, trucks all unchanged for years. Now it seems like the same trend, we have the dated Impala, DTS, Lucerne, full size SUVs, all of them trudging on with no changes, the sedans being flat out uncompetitive and very dated. Lots of new small cars though, but I really don't associate Buick or Cadillac with small sporty cars.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-06-11, 11:47 PM
According to Buick's press release, this model's biggest competitors are the Audi A3 and Lexus IS250. Isn't that the point of the Regal? We're encroaching on overkill territory.

Aron9000
01-07-11, 12:21 AM
According to Buick's press release, this model's biggest competitors are the Audi A3 and Lexus IS250. Isn't that the point of the Regal? We're encroaching on overkill territory.

I tend to agree. One of GM's biggest past weaknesses was that it competed as much with itself as it did with everybody else. Buick is starting to fall into this category IMO. Buick should have 3, maybe four models max. A midsize sedan(LaCrosse is a better car than the Regal IMO), a true premium large car(33-45k IMO), a midsize crossover, and the full size crossover Enclave. We don't need 4 sedans in that 23-33k price range like we have now. I really feel like this new Regal and Verano are steps in the wrong direction.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-07-11, 12:31 AM
Keeping that in mind Aron, it really makes me wonder if GM has learned from their past blunders....

Jesda
01-07-11, 01:04 AM
"We built something great... LETS MAKE FORTY COPIES OF THEM. THATS FORTY TIMES THE GREATNESS, RIGHT GUYS?"

*execs high-five each other, clink champagne glasses*

77CDV
01-07-11, 01:14 AM
Is it just me or does that Buick look awfully small inside? I am only 5'9" and 160 pounds and I look at those pictures feel pinched for room.

It's not just you. I thought the Lacrosse would be a nice replacement for my Eldo, until I sat in one. Zero headroom, claustrophobia-inducing, and flat out uncomfortable, and I'm shorter than you! I can't imagine the Terraza being any better.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-07-11, 01:16 AM
And that's how we get ideas like this:

YtespeLin2c&feature=related

Playdrv4me
01-07-11, 04:02 AM
Looks like it came straight out of the "answering a question nobody asked" department...

ga_etc
01-07-11, 06:42 PM
It's a good looking car, but there's a reason for it: with the exception of the brake lights, IT'S VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL TO THE LaCrosse! I guess the LaCrosse is Buick's version of the CTS. "It's actually selling. QUICK, more versions of the same thing!"

hueterm
01-08-11, 11:32 AM
IF I were going to buy a small car, I'd look at it. At least the interior isn't painfully boring.

Someone asked earlier about a 4 cyl. luxury car, wasn't the first Infiniti G (the really ugly one) a 4 cyl.?

Jesda
01-08-11, 11:46 AM
The G20 was a nice little car. The pricing put it right in line with the Maxima though, so people bought Maximas instead.

hueterm
01-08-11, 01:18 PM
Exactly, especially since that was from Maxima's golden age (before they got weird...)...

EChas3
01-08-11, 01:19 PM
The 2012 Buick Verano (http://buickmagazine.com/blog/2011/01/06/buick-introduces-the-all-new-2012-verano/)... (click the link for details)

We all know what a disaster compact luxury has been for GM in the past - but this is a really nice car.. Times have certainly changed - and Buick is really on a roll...

The CTS is a Performance Luxury Compact just as the STS is a Performance Luxury Mid-size.

Jesda
01-08-11, 01:25 PM
The current CTS is really a midsize luxury car though, with interior space and weight similar to a BMW 5-series.

EChas3
01-08-11, 03:45 PM
The CTS I drove felt smaller than my STS (which is only a mid-size based on passenger & luggage space). Intellegent people may disagree.

The CTS was classified a full-size car for its 5-star safety rating. We probably both disagree with that. The DTS is full-size (although smallish compared to my previous cars:2001 Continental & 1993 Roadmaster.)

johnny kannapo
01-08-11, 05:37 PM
Why wouldn't you love a Buick, I have owned 12 incuding this one-

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/billytheshoe/9293a50b-1.jpg

It looks good from every angle...........

EChas3
01-08-11, 09:16 PM
Buick has made great cars for a long time.

DouglasJRizzo
01-09-11, 10:11 AM
As far as engines and milage goes, GM could take a few lessons from Ford. Focus and Fiesta MPG's are pretty high and consistent. Even the big V-8's from Ford get better milage. Maybe its finally time to put the old designs to rest?

thebigjimsho
01-09-11, 06:59 PM
It's not just you. I thought the Lacrosse would be a nice replacement for my Eldo, until I sat in one. Zero headroom, claustrophobia-inducing, and flat out uncomfortable, and I'm shorter than you! I can't imagine the Terraza being any better.
It also is very comfortable in back with a ton of rear seat room...

thebigjimsho
01-09-11, 07:01 PM
I'm still wondering what GM is thinking with these EcoTec engines... 2.4L, 4 valve, VVT, DI, and a 6 speed auto. 31 mpg hwy? That's not exactly good. 22 city isn't anything to write home about either. The Buick 3.8 could do that and with more power 10 years ago.

I've always liked my friend's '08 Cobalt, if I wanted a small car. They are very nice cars aside from the poor mpg. Though I just noticed those little quarter windows in the A pillar on the Verano/Cruze... that's kinda tacky in my opinion. Too much like the Prius and Versa and all those cars. At least it's blacked out from the outside.And the EcoTecs are stout little motors that can take a ton of boost...

Jesda
01-09-11, 08:55 PM
The CTS I drove felt smaller than my STS (which is only a mid-size based on passenger & luggage space). Intellegent people may disagree.

The CTS was classified a full-size car for its 5-star safety rating. We probably both disagree with that. The DTS is full-size (although smallish compared to my previous cars:2001 Continental & 1993 Roadmaster.)

I definitely agree with all of that. In addition to a larger back seat, the STS feels more open and airy inside, maybe because the center console doesn't seem like its 10 feet tall.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-09-11, 09:33 PM
Speaking of cramped "midsize" luxury sedans, I drove an '08 G35X at work yesterday, and HOLY CRAP is that thing tight inside. Keep in mind that I'm 5'6", 145 lbs, but even I was really hurting for space. The doors are right against my elbows, and it's a pinch to get to the seat controls next to the door. It didn't help that the center console was practically at eye level either.

thebigjimsho
01-09-11, 10:06 PM
Speaking of cramped "midsize" luxury sedans, I drove an '08 G35X at work yesterday, and HOLY CRAP is that thing tight inside. Keep in mind that I'm 5'6", 145 lbs, but even I was really hurting for space. The doors are right against my elbows, and it's a pinch to get to the seat controls next to the door. It didn't help that the center console was practically at eye level either.
Hmmm...


When my '04 V was on order I was still shopping for fast 4 door sedans in case I couldn't do the deal. The then-new G35 sedan was plenty roomy in front and back. I wonder if the newer, swoopy shape cuts down on interior room or if it's just your huge persona, Chad...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-09-11, 11:04 PM
I sat in a few early G35s before, and I don't remember them being really tight, but the second generation one was terrible.

thebigjimsho
01-10-11, 12:21 AM
I sat in a few early G35s before, and I don't remember them being really tight, but the second generation one was terrible.
And the reclining rear seats were amsome, too!