: Good news for Cadillac



Lord Cadillac
01-04-11, 03:23 PM
The 2012 Buick LaCrosse GS (all wheel drive) is very likely to be getting the upcoming 3.0 liter twin turbo V6. Since the Cadillac XTS is based on the same car - I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if it didn't have this engine as well on the AWD version. The XTS SHOULD debut with the 3.0 TT pushing about 400 horsepower.

This is great news because full-size cars like the 2011 BMW 740i are using an engine like this and getting very good reviews. This would allow for performance to be VERY close to on par with other full-size luxury competitors. If tuned properly, it could see 0-60 in the mid to high 5 second range - which is excellent for a big car and a BIG improvement over the current DTS.

This will definitely help with perception of the brand and should compete very nicely with the Audi A8...

Jesda
01-04-11, 03:27 PM
Sweeeet. I love the feel of forced induction. Its like an invisible woosh.

Lord Cadillac
01-04-11, 03:41 PM
I don't have an issue with all wheel drive so I may be adding the XTS back onto my new car list.. The ONLY thing I don't like about the XTS design-wise is the bland side styling.. That's not necessarily a deal breaker, however..

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 03:53 PM
I also love forced induction. I love the flat, powerful torque curve and "right now" throttle response. The idea of a combination great fuel economy and great power is amazing and is only afforded by forced induction.

mhamilton
01-04-11, 04:08 PM
I don't know... I suppose it's good if the brand does better, but what about those of us who don't want to hear a V6 and 2 turbos screaming at 7000 rpm? I like to get onto highways without dropping out of top gear.

I know turbos have come a long way, but I would rather have power without forced induction. Just something else to go wrong, and TC or SC in my mind are still one of those "not in my daily driver" category.

Lord Cadillac
01-04-11, 04:23 PM
The XTS will be available naturally aspirated if that's what you want - but probably without a V8...

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 04:36 PM
I don't have an issue with all wheel drive so I may be adding the XTS back onto my new car list.. The ONLY thing I don't like about the XTS design-wise is the bland side styling.. That's not necessarily a deal breaker, however..
To me, the styling is fine and very proper for the livery industry. Here's to hoping...


































I would love to have an all Cadillac ownership...

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 04:39 PM
I also love forced induction. I love the flat, powerful torque curve and "right now" throttle response. The idea of a combination great fuel economy and great power is amazing and is only afforded by forced induction.
Great power? Yes. Great fuel economy? No. That is a nice marketing ploy, one which Ford is using very effectively with the EcoBoost.

orconn
01-04-11, 04:40 PM
I don't mind forced induction, but from my experience I prefer super charging to turbo charging.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 04:40 PM
I know turbos have come a long way, but I would rather have power without forced induction. Just something else to go wrong, and TC or SC in my mind are still one of those "not in my daily driver" category.

You're right, turbocharging and supercharging has come a long way in the last 30 years. They feel so linear, so natural and are so quiet nowadays. If turbos and superchargers were constantly burning out and breaking, then automakers wouldn't be so reliant on them such a wide basis nowadays. I believe in the older days, BMW was known as being as anti-forced induction as possible, believing in high revving, naturally aspirated engines loaded with tons of neat features to get their power, but even they gave in and now over half of their engines are turbocharged, and they're having GREAT luck with it. Saab is another company that has been turbocharging cars since the '70s, and I don't believe they offer any models without turbos.

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 05:16 PM
You're right, turbocharging and supercharging has come a long way in the last 30 years. They feel so linear, so natural and are so quiet nowadays. If turbos and superchargers were constantly burning out and breaking, then automakers wouldn't be so reliant on them such a wide basis nowadays. I believe in the older days, BMW was known as being as anti-forced induction as possible, believing in high revving, naturally aspirated engines loaded with tons of neat features to get their power, but even they gave in and now over half of their engines are turbocharged, and they're having GREAT luck with it. Saab is another company that has been turbocharging cars since the '70s, and I don't believe they offer any models without turbos.
BMW in the older days? No, the more current BMW that has become slightly out of touch with its roots...




http://www.diecastxchange.com/forum1/uploads/monthly_04_2010/post-10446-127075047741.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/BMW_Turbo_1972_red_vr_TCE.jpg/800px-BMW_Turbo_1972_red_vr_TCE.jpg


http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/BMW%20Engine%201.jpg


http://slickattire.com/images/turbo-era-detail.jpg


http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christophe75/images/PIC_1098.JPG


http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/62161/Bmw745iturbo1.jpg

orconn
01-04-11, 05:24 PM
Until fairly recently both Saab and Ford turbo charged vehicles were an anathema in city driving or anywhere that didn't give the time or the space to get the turbo going. You were left with an underpowered "pig" for about 80% of your driving time. That is why I have never actually bought a "turbo" assisted car for myself. I did find that the supercharger provided much more satisfactory power over a broader range. I do understand that advances to todays turbo systems have greatly decreased turbo lag, but at a cost of even more machinery to give trouble and breakdown.

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 05:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E23

Jesda
01-04-11, 05:38 PM
Yep, around town my Saab is slug. Its when you move from 30mph and up that it comes alive and feels pretty darn nice, like a V6. From light to light in city traffic it takes a heavy right foot to keep things interesting.

These days they use clever electronics to overcome the annoyances. I drove a 9-3 2.8 turbo and it screamed off the line.

mhamilton
01-04-11, 06:16 PM
I did find that the supercharger provided much more satisfactory power over a broader range. I do understand that advances to todays turbo systems have greatly decreased turbo lag, but at a cost of even more machinery to give trouble and breakdown.

Though with a SC there goes your fuel economy... unless they use an electromagnetic SC clutch like the MB Kompressor (which I have no experience with, I just know they exist).

I have to go back on my original comment against forced induction, because a twin turbo diesel would be fantastic. I saw that TT diesel V8 Jag XJ on an old episode of Top Gear, that was something else. And someone here recently posted about the TT BMW diesel that was also very impressive.

EDIT: though I'm not expecting any kind of TT diesel from Cadillac. It would be really nice if they had a NA V8 on the option list... I don't see why they couldn't put their corporate (*cough* chevy) V8 into it, they already put it in the CTS.

Jesda
01-04-11, 06:42 PM
Though with a SC there goes your fuel economy... unless they use an electromagnetic SC clutch like the MB Kompressor (which I have no experience with, I just know they exist).


And boy do those clutches love to break! See my "Crossfire with a hole in it" thread.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 06:48 PM
I love the Supercharger in my Regal. Very simple, troublefree and reliable. The only thing that goes wrong on those is that the coupler bearing will go out around 120k miles and cause a clicking noise, but that's about a $250 fix and you're good as new.

drewsdeville
01-04-11, 06:53 PM
I love the Supercharger in my Regal. Very simple, troublefree and reliable. The only thing that goes wrong on those is that the coupler bearing will go out around 120k miles and cause a clicking noise, but that's about a $250 fix and you're good as new.

Yeah and really, it isn't actually that common when untouched. They usually fail on overdriven units that were used with a smaller pulley, which many love to do.

The only negative to the superchargers is like mentioned, fuel economy goes down the drain. It's probably one reason why the factory horsepower boost on the 3800SC was minimal. Once people swap the pulleys out and make better power, mileage isn't doing so hot. The factory tune and pulley size is probably the sweet spot for power/mileage.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 07:04 PM
Oh yeah, and if I get into the throttle a lot and exploit the supercharger, the mileage goes down the tubes. If I can stay off the throttle on the highway, in the 60-70 zone, I'll get 28.5 MPG. Trouble is that staying off the throttle is as tough as spending a night with Scarlett Johannson and "only watching a movie".

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 07:06 PM
Mileage? You should see my V on the road course...

EChas3
01-04-11, 10:31 PM
torque

Playdrv4me
01-05-11, 01:52 AM
Though with a SC there goes your fuel economy... unless they use an electromagnetic SC clutch like the MB Kompressor (which I have no experience with, I just know they exist).

Speaking of which, attached is a pic of what happened to that "clever" electro-magnetic clutch after just... 45k miles on my car...

mhamilton
01-05-11, 11:10 AM
And boy do those clutches love to break! See my "Crossfire with a hole in it" thread.


Speaking of which, attached is a pic of what happened to that "clever" electro-magnetic clutch after just... 45k miles on my car...

Oh yes, I recall that thread... I can imagine those clutches are trouble, with the forces involved in bring a SC from 0 to 3000 rpm in a split second. I also recall seeing a test drive of a Merc with one, the comments I remember were that it was either not engaging when it needed to, or engaging too often? Something that was annoying to the driver.

77CDV
01-06-11, 04:53 PM
No V8, no care.

Stingroo
01-06-11, 04:56 PM
No V8, no care.

:yup:

gary88
01-06-11, 06:10 PM
Turbo motors are here to stay. If there's a manufacturer that hasn't adopted them yet, they will in the near future. MB got rid of the 5.5L V8 for a new 4.7L TTV8, the new M3 will be a TTI6 instead of the N/A V8, and I believe the entire new F30 3-series generation will be turbo-powered. Even Formula 1 will be abandoning V8s for new turbo 4s starting in 2013.

The sooner Cadillac starts working on turbo technology the better.

drewsdeville
01-06-11, 06:14 PM
Turbo motors are here to stay. If there's a manufacturer that hasn't adopted them yet, they will in the near future. MB got rid of the 5.5L V8 for a new 4.7L TTV8, the new M3 will be a TTI6 instead of the N/A V8, and I believe the entire new F30 3-series generation will be turbo-powered. Even Formula 1 will be abandoning V8s for new turbo 4s starting in 2013.

The sooner Cadillac starts working on turbo technology the better.

Wow, interesting.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-06-11, 06:50 PM
I was talking to a technician at a Ford/Mercury/Lincoln store today, and he was singing the praises of the new Ecoboost V6. He said it's fast as heck in the Taurus SHO, and it feels like a V8 with a torque curve flatter than the 3V 5.4L V8's, not to mention a lot more power as well. I saw an '11 F-150 Ecoboost about a month ago. He passed me on the street, it was odd hearing the turbo whistle but not hearing a diesel to back it up.

thebigjimsho
01-09-11, 06:01 PM
I was talking to a technician at a Ford/Mercury/Lincoln store today, and he was singing the praises of the new Ecoboost V6. He said it's fast as heck in the Taurus SHO, and it feels like a V8 with a torque curve flatter than the 3V 5.4L V8's, not to mention a lot more power as well. I saw an '11 F-150 Ecoboost about a month ago. He passed me on the street, it was odd hearing the turbo whistle but not hearing a diesel to back it up.
One of my good SHO buddies has a 2010 SHO. I got to wring it out pretty well. It's a formidable machine. But its fuel economy is meh. Turbo 6, V8, it's all the same. My LS6 powered V with 400hp gets the same mileage as the 365hp TTV6 SHO...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-09-11, 06:21 PM
Like I said earlier, Supercharging/Turbocharging a smaller engine for similar power output to a bigger engine will help with the mileage, provided you can keep out of the boost. But Jim, I'd be willing to bet that the SHO Taurus gets similar mileage to your V1 because the SHO is heavier and is AWD.

thebigjimsho
01-09-11, 07:05 PM
Like I said earlier, Supercharging/Turbocharging a smaller engine for similar power output to a bigger engine will help with the mileage, provided you can keep out of the boost. But Jim, I'd be willing to bet that the SHO Taurus gets similar mileage to your V1 because the SHO is heavier and is AWD.
But the LS6 has been making more power and torque for years. That offsets the extra weight/drivetrain loss...