: Gas is $7.00 a gallon ... what would you drive?



orconn
01-04-11, 01:39 PM
With gas prices escalating, even in a slow economy, considerably higher prices for gas and diesel seem inevitable when the economy recovers to more normal activity. Prices of $6.00 or $7.00 a gallon are not unthinkable considering worldwide demand is just beginning to increase.

So I guess it is not too premature to ask, "what will you drive when gas prices rise into, heretofore, unheard of price levels?"

Bro-Ham
01-04-11, 02:07 PM
I don't think gas will get that expensive, at least in our country, ever. If it even came close I think there would be a revolt politically against the dimwitted jack wagons who have opposed drilling for our own oil, followed by instant drilling for oil in every place we have it available, and the result would be the lowest prices of our lifetimes sustained for the longest period of time.

I will continue to drive my large, comfortable, gas guzzling vehicles now and in the future. :)

Aron9000
01-04-11, 02:10 PM
It would give me another good excuse to pick up a Mazda Miata. Been mulling over one for a while now. Keep the Caddy parked unless I need the space or am going out of town.

For something newer and more practical, I would really consider a Jetta TDI wagon, or maybe a 5 door Golf TDI.

If I were buying new and had $40,000, no doubt a Chevy Volt would be something really cool to own. I personally cannot wait until GM starts putting that drivetrain into different cars as well, something like a large Buick sedan plug in hybrid would be pretty damn pimp as well.

hueterm
01-04-11, 02:14 PM
What I drive now...I'd just cut down on my driving.

I live .6 miles from my office, so even if I go home for lunch and to let Beretta out, that's only 2.4 miles/day. Walmart and the butcher shop are 1.9 miles away, so even if I go twice a week, that's less than 8 miles/week. I could have bought a house in woody Bella Vista, or hip Fayetteville, but those are 20 and 30 miles away, respectively. So instead, I live in boring Bentonville, but my drive to work is 90 seconds.

So far, I'm at 20 miles per week. I'm about 5 miles from my gym, so that would push me to say 40 miles/week -- so now I'm at 60 miles/week total. I'd just cut down on trips to Fayetteville (60 miles round trip), which would be the biggest in-town difference.

The EXT's tank holds 32 gallons at say 11 MPG city -- which is 352 miles. So, I could go almost 6 weeks on one tank. Albeit a $224 tank. The other cars are a little better in town. Probably 13-14 on the wagons and 14-15 on the Northstars. When gas went way up in '08, I just drove the EXT less and the other cars more.

The biggest drawback would be trips to STL, which would be in the $250 range at $7/gallon. Instead of going every 2-3 weeks, I'd go every 4-6. I'd definitely get the wagons tuned up, and I'd drive 60 instead of 80.

Gas would have to go to $15/gallon before I'd go to some kind of high efficiency vehicle, and that would be mainly for trips to STL. It won't even be at $7 -- there will be riots in the streets if it hits $5 avg. There almost were riots at $4 and it drove us into a recession.

Jesda
01-04-11, 02:17 PM
I also want a Miata.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 02:39 PM
I dunno, some sort of a Honda Civic or TDI Volkswagen. Not something I wanna think about though, as I'll probably still be driving my 21MPG Regal GS IF this ever happens, which it won't because we'll start drilling in new places.

ted tcb
01-04-11, 03:36 PM
Drive my Miata more frequently :)

Its currently sleeping under a car cover with a battery conditioner hooked up to her ... she doesn't
like salt and sub zero weather.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 03:42 PM
Ya know, a CRX would be a fun little car for an "automotive apocalypse" like the $7.00 per gas days.

Stingroo
01-04-11, 03:58 PM
I'd drive my wagon. Why? Because I can.

drewsdeville
01-04-11, 04:31 PM
Pedal power FTW. I could dedicate more money to my fuel tank as prices rise, but what's the point? I have more important/better places to put my money than in fuel for my car. Since I can't control how much fuel costs, I'll control how much I use. Either way, I'm the one in control and I will still only spend as much on fuel as I feel is worth it.

I used to put 3k miles per summer on my bike while using it as dedicated transportation. I guess I'd just have to start doing so again rather than using my bike just for recreation. I did so lazily last year and ended up saving a ton on fuel. I needed to fill up my car's 16 gallon tank no less than once a month

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9940/bikenj.jpg

Besides, it's way more fun than attempting to navigate by car Milwaukee's many closed/detoured roads with the big construction projects going on here.

Still looking at the TDI Jettas for when I'm ready later this year, however.

ga_etc
01-04-11, 07:45 PM
If gas hits $7 a gallon, then diesel is going to be $8-$9 a gallon more than likely, simply because there are so many 18 wheelers and other large vehicles that require it. I would downsize to something along the lines of a Miata, or maybe a Smart with a Hayabusa motor in it. Something larger would have to be kept in the driveway for when needed though.

ThumperPup
01-04-11, 08:06 PM
ill get a smart car lol
but it will have to be parked in the winter
but yeah if gas prices came that hi i bet just about anytihng that the U.s Goverment would pass a bill saying anyone who is charging that much for gas will be shut down or something likee that i remmebr after katrina gas stations rose there prices in Ohio to like 4 a gallon and anyone cought rasing for something like that because they know they could get it but there was no call for it really fgot shut down for a week
so im guessing that it wont happen
and yeah we will end up drilling here come on right off the coast we have how much freaking oil but no the U.S sais we cant drill because of these darn enviormentalist but what about the other country sthat go into those watter to drill come on thats bull shit
u know how much oil we have in out own country LOL

the recluse
01-04-11, 08:32 PM
That's what I love my motorcycle for; 50 mpg! When gas started its horrendous rise the first time (5 years or so ago), I was driving an '86 Monte Carlo SS. $450 a month in gas! I bought a motorcycle and gas went to $120 a month. I drive 75 to 85 miles a day to work and back so pedal power is no option and I live so far out in the sticks nobody wants to car pool.

Oh, and gas hit well over $4.00 and diesel was over $5.25 a few years ago.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/new/default_V3.asp
http://www.kgbanswers.com/whats-the-highest-gas-prices-have-ever-been-in-the-us/4285515

Stingroo
01-04-11, 08:38 PM
The highest I ever remember seeing gas was $4.07 in Massachusetts when we lived there.

I paid $3.11 to fill up to come back to Jax for school down in Stuart, FL. When I get to Jax I see $2.99. I raged.

MauiV
01-04-11, 09:08 PM
Ive seen $5+ in Maui and I still drove a full size F150 Supercrew 4X4 Lariet and a Lincoln LS V8 20 miles each way to work.

I would continue to drive the V or something else fast because my 23 mile Interstate commute will have much less idiot fodder in the way so that will open up more leg-stretching openings.

We will pay whatever it is. I am still amazed that a company can search thousands of feet under the ocean floor, find a substance, build a monsterous structure to acquire the substance, extract that substance, store and transport the substance to shore, refine the substance to multiple commodities, transport it thousands of more miles to my neighborhood, have a middle man sell it cheaper than the same volume of milk and there are cows behind my house.

EChas3
01-04-11, 09:24 PM
Even at $10 dollars a gallon, I wouldn't trade my gas guzzler unless its replacement had similar features. Life is too short to drive a sh**box.

It is interesting that many consider the $4 per gallon seen in Summer of 2008 as a tipping point where people cut their driving. I feel that reduction of consumption was part of the economic collapse; both cause & effect. The poor economy finally drove down prices and has kept them down.

Economically speaking, the gas market is not very 'elastic'. If I have to get to work and can't carpool or use mass transit, I'll buy the gas I need regardless of the price. I won't buy more gas than I need, regardless of the price. (I might drive rather than fly but there are a lot of other factors, too.)

I will buy less of everything else and drive my guzzler even longer!

hueterm
01-04-11, 09:28 PM
And you don't really drive a gas guzzler (unless you make it one out of pleasure), and you can very likely afford the gas anyway, considering what you drive.

The guy driving his 15 year old Suburban that he can't afford to drive and can't get anything to sell, but can't fit all his kids in anything else, and can't afford to live close to work, so he's sprawled out 50 miles one way from his job, is the one who will be rioting in the streets...

codewize
01-04-11, 09:44 PM
Same thing I drive now. Big ass fuel hungry Cadillacs. I'm not driving a tin can at any fuel price.

Ranger
01-04-11, 10:32 PM
http://www.phototravels.net/japan/pcd1663/rickshaw-84.3.jpg

creeker
01-04-11, 11:28 PM
I don't think gas will get that expensive, at least in our country, ever. If it even came close I think there would be a revolt politically against the dimwitted jack wagons who have opposed drilling for our own oil, followed by instant drilling for oil in every place we have it available, and the result would be the lowest prices of our lifetimes sustained for the longest period of time.

I will continue to drive my large, comfortable, gas guzzling vehicles now and in the future. :)


I respect your opinion,but just because it could be produced close to home does not mean your going to get a break, they will still gouge you for what they can get, it may cost them less to produce it, but they ain't going to pass it along to you.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 11:33 PM
I myself would rather drive a car that's paid for in cash and gets 9 MPG than something I'm making payments on that gets 25.

Jesda
01-05-11, 01:22 AM
Pedal power FTW. Unfortunately, none of the places I need to go are close enough to cycle to. And in the summer I'd arrive sweating like a pig.

Aron9000
01-05-11, 02:36 AM
Honestly if gas were $7 a gallon, I would consider moving somewhere downtown or within 3 miles of work. Right now my commute is 11 miles one way. My standard of living would drop(ie no balling 2 bedroom 1500sq ft open concept, vaulted ceiling, duplex with a yard, private drive, storage shed, huge patio, big 2 car carport like where I live now), but honestly I think it would be an interesting experience living in a more urban environment.

Although Nashville is not a great "urban" experience IMO because of the lack of public transit and everything being so spread out.

Jesda
01-05-11, 03:42 AM
Driving around town isnt too much of a burden. Its road trips that I'd have to sadly cut back on. I remember going to my friend's wedding in 2008 when gas was anywhere from $3.80 to $4.99. That plus all the speeding tickets added up to a few grand to hang out in Washington for less than a week!

ThumperPup
01-05-11, 10:15 AM
the one thing that ticks with me is
that when i see ppl at the station with 5 big things they are filling with gas and its nto cars they got jugs or cans or barrels int he back of there truck or trunk or wagon
or van or anyting els
well dont they realize if you just keep feeding of those prices worried they will rise they are gona rise

OffThaHorseCEO
01-05-11, 01:55 PM
I myself would rather drive a car that's paid for in cash and gets 9 MPG than something I'm making payments on that gets 25.

exactly. id drive what i drive now, because its all paid for. If i went out and buy a gas sipper, id STILL be paying $7/gallon for fuel, i just might be using half as much fuel at most.

I'm currently averaging 21mpg on the Allanté.
I drive 26 miles each way to work, lets round that to 30
30 to work+30 from work, 60 miles round trip to work
work 6 days a week x 60 miles round trip, i drive 360 miles/week
lets assume i work every week out of the year, 52 weeks x 360miles/week 18,720 miles/year
18720 miles / 21 mpg = id use about 892 gallons a year

currently, gas is 3.23/gal for 93. so at current prices, id be spending about $2,881 in gas per year
if gas went up to $7/gallon that would increase to $6244 (ouch!)

if i went and got a car that averaged, lets say 35 mpg
18720 miles per year / 35 miles per gallon, is about 535 gallons per year.
at current prices, thats $1728/year in gas
at $7/gallon thats $3745/year

the difference per year between a car i CHOSE to buy, that i love, that has personality character, and a story behind it and an econobox that i would buy out of necessity would be 1153/year at current prices, or 2500 at $7/gallon. That econobox wouldnt magically materialize in my driveway either, id have to shell out some money for it. If i bought one for anything less than $2000 right now, it would probably need more maintenance to make sure it ran right, and the engine would probably be in poor shape so it might not even get its best mileage. if i waited until gas prices started shooting up, that SAME sub-$2k car would become a mid $3k car or worse. Basically, the money i would save on gas would be used to pay for the car i didnt want to be driving in the first place. Thats just the price of the car too, doesnt take into account the cost of registration, vehicle tax, and inspection.

A hybrid is ridiculously useless in this situation, im satisfied with all my cars and not in the market for another car, so if i went and looked for a hybrid out of "necessity" id be putting myself in the hole. The cheapest hybrid i found (admittedly it was a very brief search) was 15450. Lets assume i magically talked the dealer down to 14k, id still have to pay for tax/tags. The car in question is an 07 Honda Civic Hybrid and claims 51mpg.
18720mpy/51mpg=367 gallons per year
367x7=$2569...not a big enough difference to justify spending 14k on a car I dont even like.

HAZZARDJOHN
01-05-11, 02:00 PM
1998 Dodge ram SLT laramie 1500 4x4 quad Cab short box 5.2 V8. Why? Because it is paid for and I like it. Why trade it on a single cylinder Kyoto powercell powered rickshaw?

That and I would still set fire to a gallon of gas everytime I heard the word "hyper-miler"

~HJ

Florian
01-05-11, 02:53 PM
no change.....dont care.


F

drewsdeville
01-05-11, 03:35 PM
You car should always be paid for anyway regardless. In my opinion, the only thing you should ever have to make payments on in your life is on a home. Anything else you should possibly need to buy should be paid for in cash, or you should at least have the means to do so. If that's not possible, YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT, period.

I think abuse of the credit system is part of the reason this country is where it is today. Vehicles, which really are the biggest "waste" of money on paper since nothing depreciates like them, are easily some of the poorest decisions Americans make when it comes to finances.

Not that no one can spend some dollars on the car they love if they don't want to, but they should be able to afford it if they do. Most of America goes ahead and puts themselves in debt over the $50k SUV anyway just because the bank said they would loan them the money to do so. Then what happens? Unexpectedly, the economy takes a dump, someone loses their job or they take a cut in pay or hours, the price of EVERYTHING goes up, fuel included, and the bank wants their $50k SUV back because they can no longer make the minimum payment. Sounds like fun.

Feel sorry for the people that can't take care of themselves financially. I know they won't enjoy working until they are 85.

The-Dullahan
01-05-11, 03:59 PM
A 1987 Brougham Hearse. Duh.

The-Dullahan
01-05-11, 04:06 PM
You car should always be paid for anyway regardless. In my opinion, the only thing you should ever have to make payments on in your life is on a home. Anything else you should possibly need to buy should be paid for in cash, or you should at least have the means to do so. If that's not possible, YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT, period.

I agree with this COMPLETELY.

If this were the case though, a lot of Repomen would be out of business. A lot of my friends do that (You would be surprised how many muscle-headed Repomen move onto working at Disney, it is utterly amazing.

In hindsight...that is probably a FUN job...

While I agree people should not buy what they cannot afford, I am rather glad that people do it. OBT in Fl has basically every dealership you can imagine (Aside from a few ultra-exotic cars like a Rolls dealership) and EVERYONE in that area owns a brand new car. I believe the policy's marketing slogan is something like "No Cash, No Credit, No I.D., No PROBLEM."

HAZZARDJOHN
01-05-11, 04:16 PM
You car should always be paid for anyway regardless. In my opinion, the only thing you should ever have to make payments on in your life is on a home. Anything else you should possibly need to buy should be paid for in cash, or you should at least have the means to do so. If that's not possible, YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT, period..

Yeah and Children of the world should go to bed with full bellies, and there should be free trips to the salad bar, and santa the easter bunny and strippers with hearts of gold should be real too.

Nice to know you know how other people should handle their finances.

~HJ

codewize
01-05-11, 06:23 PM
That's a little harsh but very true. Ask any financial advisor and he'll tell you the same thing, with a small adjustment. Usually they tell you never to finance a car for more than 36 months and if you can't afford the payments at 36 months then you can't afford the car.

The rest is true. Nothing else in you're life should be financed if you don't have the cash available to pay for it. Credit should be used for convenience not a way to purchase things you can't really afford.

EChas3
01-05-11, 08:29 PM
Even home ownership isn't for everyone. Most people buying a new car don't really grasp how expensive that drive home really is. Just as the auto-recycler correctly claims, 'every car runs on used parts', good used car salesmen know a car is only 'new' until the first ding, scrape, spill or stain.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-05-11, 09:44 PM
Living within your means is the key idea. Drew can't comprehend tact so I'll put it more politely. I bought my first two cars on cash, because at the time, I had no other debts or bills, and a $3350 Buick Roadmaster and a $3925 Cadillac deVille aren't terribly expensive cars. But now, with rent, and all my other bills, It would be very hard and time inefficent to save up enough money to buy a car on cash, especially something decent in the $6-8,000 range. That's where the beauty of the car loan comes into factor. If the loan payment is enough to comfortably get by on, then go for it! Just make sure you've got either enough in savings to account for it if something bad happens at the workplace, or if you're comfortable with your work environment and confident that you'll have a job in 2 years, then why the heck not? Where I see people getting hung up is financing a car that's clearly out of their price range. I won't pay more than $275 a month for a car in my current conditions, just not smart. When I bought that S-Class, I had it financed at $499 a month for 24 months, but after about a year, I had it refinanced for $235 for 18 months or something, I don't remember it was too long ago, but it was out of my range. I was making good money for a guy my age and I wasn't too in debt, so $499 a month wasn't impossible, until I had a few repair bills under my belt and said "hey, this has gotta stop". Anyways, buying that S-Class at the age of 20 wasn't a smart idea, even if it was $150 a month, because it was "living beyond my means". :)

People all over the place are doing the same thing, but with $400,000 homes and $60,000 Escalades. It's that "one upping the Joneses" that gets us. If you don't feel the need to do that, then you'll be fine.

drewsdeville
01-05-11, 10:17 PM
Drew can't comprehend tact so I'll put it more politely.

Well, this IS teh internetz after all. Not the serious business it's made out to be.

I know some of the lounge regulars all sensitive and stuff, but really, the bottom line is buy what you can afford or suffer the consequences. Simple, short, and to the point. If that's too hard to handle...

:bigroll:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-05-11, 10:20 PM
I think you meant some of the lounge regulars CAN get all sensitive and stuff.

drewsdeville
01-05-11, 10:24 PM
I think you meant some of the lounge regulars CAN get all sensitive and stuff.
:highfive:

Ranger
01-05-11, 10:24 PM
$60,000 Escalade? You only can pay $275 a month? No problem sir, we can do that for you. We'll just stretch out the payments. Should have it payed off about the time you retire. What? You don't like that idea? No problem sir. Why not just rent, um I mean lease one. Join our new church, Our Lady Of Perpetual Payments, and we'll give you a new car every 2 years. This is a better deal since you'll be making payments til you die anyway. Just sign here sir.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-05-11, 10:29 PM
I really wish I still had that '92 deVille. I loved the fact that I didn't owe anything on it. Too bad anything that I could feasibly buy on cash for the same amount nowadays is gonna be a POS because the used car market got so thrusted by C4C.

drewsdeville
01-05-11, 10:34 PM
^^^ Ranger = WIN.

Those $60k Escalade examples are the best ones because by the time the vehicle is paid off, it's worthless, has 200,000 miles on it and the driver has stuck a good amount of money in repairs and maintenance. They finally own the vehicle and it's time get a new one!

Even something as small as the $6-8,000 example can be risky if you really don't have the money to buy. You could be one unlucky fella and total that car out a month after you buy it. Of course, unless you got an out-of-this-world deal, the insurance company will give you far less than you took a loan out for, and you'll end up owing on a car that you no longer drive, and you'll have to make payments on the replacement since you were broke to begin with.

Snowball.

Besides, why rack up extra in interest on a sum so small?

orconn
01-05-11, 11:34 PM
What's wrong with keeping your Regal for awhile, Chad? It seems you give you good service and will be paid off in the not too distant future.

Koooop
01-06-11, 12:26 AM
Life's to short to drive a crappy car.

I will continue to drive an overpowered V8 as long as the DMV will give me license to do so. I have to admit that the Tesla does have some attraction.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-06-11, 12:43 AM
What's wrong with keeping your Regal for awhile, Chad? It seems you give you good service and will be paid off in the not too distant future.

There's nothing wrong at all with the Regal. It's reliability has been stellar and was exactly what I wanted after that Mercedes. I was just waxing poetic about how great it was owning a car on cash.

Koooop
01-06-11, 12:47 AM
The right question is: What insane gas guzzler could I lay my hands on for stupid cheap? Panamera Turbo? I'll pay the $7 and someone else can ride around in a Prius. Just more gas for me.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-06-11, 12:50 AM
Oh yeah, good point. If gas ever gets that high, all the land yachts I like will be practically be given away by their current owners. Buyers market. :)

Aron9000
01-06-11, 01:08 AM
Oh yeah, good point. If gas ever gets that high, all the land yachts I like will be practically be given away by their current owners. Buyers market. :)

True, I hope truck prices tank this summer when gas gets high again. I'd also take a Roadmaster wagon if I could score a good deal one, make mine a burgandy wood delete with blacked out windows.

Koooop
01-06-11, 01:11 AM
An SRT10 pick up could have your name on it!

Aron9000
01-06-11, 01:16 AM
^ I think mother Drew would be saying that I'm living outside my means with a truck like that. Although if I could score a decent one for under $10,000 it would be mighty tempting. 400ft blackmarks and enough tire smoke to call the fire department, mmmm

Koooop
01-06-11, 01:19 AM
I guess you could roll a 200,000 mile Hoopty and stay within your means...

BUT THAT WOULD SUCK!

gdwriter
01-06-11, 01:44 AM
I guess you could roll a 200,000 mile Hoopty and stay within your means...

BUT THAT WOULD SUCK!Well...Cruella was a 200,000-mile $995 special when I needed a cash car five years ago. But she was no Hooptie and owning her most definitely did not suck. Still going strong at 264,000.

Still, cars like Cruella are more the exception than the rule.

Koooop
01-06-11, 02:02 AM
Cruella is hardly broken in.

gdwriter
01-06-11, 02:50 AM
Cruella is hardly broken in.Hahahahahaha

I'd really like to see her make it to 300,000 miles.

Stingroo
01-06-11, 08:03 AM
True, I hope truck prices tank this summer when gas gets high again. I'd also take a Roadmaster wagon if I could score a good deal one, make mine a burgandy wood delete with blacked out windows.

You and me both. DCM is the BEST color on the B-bodies. Mmmmmm. I want another. Needs LT1 though.

Hahahahahaha

I'd really like to see her make it to 300,000 miles.

It'd be cool to get to a million miles - then the odometer would read 000000. :)

Koooop
01-06-11, 10:51 AM
My Vette has seen 00000.0 three times (to bad the odo was broken for 15 or so years of it's life).

Stingroo
01-06-11, 10:54 AM
I just want to see it to take a photo. It would be awesome. I'm already upset that I missed 111,111.1 last week on the wagon. :(

drewsdeville
01-06-11, 12:14 PM
I just want to see it to take a photo. It would be awesome. I'm already upset that I missed 111,111.1 last week on the wagon. :(

Then you gotta try for 222,222.2.

What would be awesome is if you could get 222,222.2 WITH the trip displaying 222.2 while going 22mph :D

Stingroo
01-06-11, 12:15 PM
Mind****. :lol:

77CDV
01-06-11, 03:12 PM
Oh yeah, good point. If gas ever gets that high, all the land yachts I like will be practically be given away by their current owners. Buyers market. :)

Shades of 1973. Works for me! :)

Stingroo
01-06-11, 03:21 PM
Oh god imagine the cheap wagons I could buy....

:drool:

77CDV
01-06-11, 03:26 PM
"Almost paradise....." Sing along, Roo!

Stingroo
01-06-11, 03:28 PM
I think my mother would try and shoot me if I brought a second wagon home. :lol:


By the third one though, she'd probably accept it. :p

77CDV
01-06-11, 03:32 PM
Better practice ducking, then!

Stingroo
01-06-11, 03:37 PM
I've got twenty years of practice! :D

orconn
01-06-11, 05:03 PM
Oh yeah, good point. If gas ever gets that high, all the land yachts I like will be practically be given away by their current owners. Buyers market. :)

Most of the 'land yachts" that you covet are no longer driven as daily drivers, but kept by lovers of these cars (AKA collectors) so I doubt you would see much of a price reduction due to their fuel consumption. The ones that are still driven as daily transportation are probably not the ones you would want anyway. I.E. this is not the same market as the SUV market!

Koooop
01-06-11, 06:15 PM
They will crash if we hit $7/ gallon, just like they do in every gas crunch. Just have a few bucks in cash so you can grab something really big and really cool!

Destroyer
01-06-11, 09:58 PM
I drive a lot. $7 a gallon would hurt me. I never posted or even took pics of it but my daily vehicle is an extended Ford E250 van with a 5.4. Terrific van, better than my Chevy, GMC and Dodge vans but it guzzles gas. As it is, I pay over $100/week in gas just for the van. If this price was to go twice or thrice the amount I'd have to maybe get a gas miser for days I don't necessarily need to drive my van. This thing with gas prices rising gets me pissed. :mad2:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-06-11, 10:50 PM
Oh yeah? Better than the Chevy or Dodge vans? I've heard the same. What do you like about it more?

Aron9000
01-06-11, 11:34 PM
I drive a lot. $7 a gallon would hurt me. I never posted or even took pics of it but my daily vehicle is an extended Ford E250 van with a 5.4. Terrific van, better than my Chevy, GMC and Dodge vans but it guzzles gas. As it is, I pay over $100/week in gas just for the van. If this price was to go twice or thrice the amount I'd have to maybe get a gas miser for days I don't necessarily need to drive my van. This thing with gas prices rising gets me pissed. :mad2:

If you really need all that cargo capacity, I think a turbodiesel Mercedes(Dodge Sprinter) van is the way to go. Our local airport shuttle runs those vans, they all have like 300k+ miles and have needed minimal work. The interiors/exteriors have held up real well for the amount of abuse they see as well. Gas mileage is awesome, 20-25mpg is the norm for these vans.

The-Dullahan
01-06-11, 11:54 PM
I think my mother would try and shoot me if I brought a second wagon home. :lol:


By the third one though, she'd probably accept it. :p

Then since you have all that parking space that I don't, I'll start keeping cars at your house. See you soon.

77CDV
01-07-11, 12:16 AM
^Threat or promise? :lol:

Playdrv4me
01-07-11, 05:36 AM
Wooo-hooo! Bring on the FREE GMT900s ROUND 2!

Or as the little sign hanging inside every Carmax salesperson's cubicle during round 1 of the gas crunch said for trade-ins... MORE GAS = LESS CASH.

Koooop
01-07-11, 09:51 AM
I have found the answer to the question!

How cheap will this thing be if gas goes to $7? I'm in!

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=283459843&dealer_id=63662297&car_year=1995&model=VIPER&pager.offset=25&search_lang=en&start_year=1981&body_style=CONVERT&body_style=VANS&search_type=both&distance=0&min_price=16000&rdm=1294411756281&marketZipError=false&sownerid=66967&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2012&showZipError=n&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=65&first_record=26&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&address=92660&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=30000&awsp=false&make=DODGE&num_records=25&seller_type=b&cardist=55&standard=false

Stingroo
01-07-11, 10:03 AM
Shit... that convinces me!

Destroyer
01-07-11, 09:48 PM
Oh yeah? Better than the Chevy or Dodge vans? I've heard the same. What do you like about it more?The build quality first and foremost. I didn't have many problems with my '00 GMC conversion van nor my '96 Chevy conversion van. My '96 Dodge B1500 work van was reliable too. I have driven my E250 well over 10k miles since ownership and it is the best built of all the vans I've had by a long shot. It has towed more than 8,000lbs and didn't even flinch, it is a trustworthy and comfortable van. My next one will be a Ford as well. :cool2:

Destroyer
01-07-11, 09:51 PM
If you really need all that cargo capacity, I think a turbodiesel Mercedes(Dodge Sprinter) van is the way to go. Our local airport shuttle runs those vans, they all have like 300k+ miles and have needed minimal work. The interiors/exteriors have held up real well for the amount of abuse they see as well. Gas mileage is awesome, 20-25mpg is the norm for these vans.A friend of mine had a fleet of 11 Sprinters. Says after 120k or so miles they start giving major problems. He wasn't happy with them and went back to Ford vans next time around. :annoyed::yup:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-07-11, 09:59 PM
I've heard that the Econolines/Club Wagons are better riding and "easier driving" than the Ram Vans and Express/Savana vans.

Jesda
01-07-11, 10:37 PM
Ooh, van talk! Yes, the Econolines are very easy to drive. The seating position is decent, there's three generous cupholders up front, steering is reasonably accurate, and its overall much smoother than GM's traditional Vandura (not sure how it compares to Express/Savana). I used full size vans to haul 3500lb of cargo, but I've since upgraded to box trucks or freight service depending on which is cheaper.

I haven't driven a Ram Van. If the Ram Van drives like the Ram Truck, then I imagine the Ram Van would be the better-driving van.

EChas3
01-08-11, 01:06 AM
It's not just the increasing price of gas. In many other ways, we could easily be witnessing the end of the golden age of personal transportation. As the do-gooders pass laws requiring expensive (and unecessary) add-on's: stability systems, CAFE standards, emission controls, taxpayer funded subsidies for poor fuels (E85) and wasteful technolgies (hybrids & electrics).

Before gas reached $5, we reached the tipping point of economic collapse. This time it's intentional. The unemployed don't buy new cars.

Nutz
01-08-11, 01:24 AM
$7, $8, whatever... I worked my ass off to get my V. I will drive it until I'm broke. If some idiot shows up in my driveway with a promise-of-riches gas miser piece of crap econo-box save-the-world-car, I'll take my last $7 and go to the gas station and buy a gallon of gas to pour on it, light it, and watch it burn. Then I'll grab my 10 speed and take it to the local speed shop to see if we can change the sprockets or something to make it as fast as possible. I'm burning gas til either the gas or my money runs out. Real cars for life.

ga_etc
01-08-11, 01:33 AM
http://thoughtpods.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1992_Geo_Metro_convertible_01.jpg

Cavalier-lite

Aron9000
01-08-11, 02:04 AM
http://thoughtpods.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1992_Geo_Metro_convertible_01.jpg

Cavalier-lite

AW-HELL-NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:hitstick:

I refuse to drive that or a smart car. Pulled up to a smart car at a light once, noted that his whole car was only as long as my hood.

ga_etc
01-08-11, 03:32 AM
But it has 3 cylinders of FURY....

Seriously though, I would drive THIS (http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/2140743039.html) and not feel the slightest bit ashamed.

Aron9000
01-08-11, 04:07 AM
But it has 3 cylinders of FURY....

Seriously though, I would drive THIS (http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/2140743039.html) and not feel the slightest bit ashamed.

Once again, AW-HELL-NO!!!!!!!!!

Just spend another thousand dollars and you got a pretty decent NA Miata, which is a a million times nicer and really well engineered.

Playdrv4me
01-08-11, 04:10 AM
While I might not ELIMINATE a car over gas prices, I would totally add one of these to the stable...

http://image.automotive.com/f/powerpages/15804470+pheader/impp_0906_01_z+1990_honda_crx_si+front.jpg

Beats the shit out of a Prius.

ga_etc
01-08-11, 04:14 AM
Most NA Miatas you find around here in the $3k range are barely decent. And the Z24 does have a more space for somewhat practical tasks. I would still love to have a Miata though.

ga_etc
01-08-11, 04:24 AM
http://image.importtuner.com/f/8370331+w750+st0/0306_01z+1994_honda_del_sol_s+front_side_view.jpg

I would roll in one of these too.

ga_etc
01-08-11, 05:29 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Toyota_Paseo_front_20080215.jpg

Nearly bought one of these one time too and still kinda regret it.

Stingroo
01-08-11, 08:18 AM
The hell is that Toyota thing? Never seen that before.

And I'd take my Cavalier Z24 with a roof - if I must own one. The rest that have been posted aren't appealing at all. I'll stick to my wagon. :)

drewsdeville
01-08-11, 09:09 AM
Honda Prelude dominates all of the above.

That is all :cool2:

Jesda
01-08-11, 10:13 AM
The hell is that Toyota thing? Never seen that before.

The Paseo. They even made a convertible version.

OffThaHorseCEO
01-08-11, 10:26 AM
That Paseo is horrible. for a gas sipper econobox car its ok, but one of my friends bought one when everyone was into the whole fast/furious scene. He thought it would be like any other import, boring in stock configuration but supposedly better with "mods" (fart can). He ended up hating it and ditched it.

hueterm
01-08-11, 10:38 AM
I don't often agree with Drew, but his Honda Prelude assessment is correct...

However, good luck finding one w/o 1000000 miles, or that isn't ridiculously expensive, or that hasn't been done up like some reject from Fast and the Furious/Tokyo Drift....

What were Acura Integras based off of? Civics?

Jesda
01-08-11, 10:47 AM
Hell, I'd drive an NSX. $20k will get you a nice one.

hueterm
01-08-11, 11:06 AM
If there were anyone here to fix them, I'd seriously consider a Saab 9-3...

Stingroo
01-08-11, 11:29 AM
I sort of like the NSX. It LOOKS like an exotic, even if it doesn't really have a proper powertrain to be one...

hueterm
01-08-11, 12:02 PM
Jesda, what mileage does Ducky get? I looked up like a 2000 9-3, and the highway mileage was like 23....so then...WHY? I can get that with anything I own besides the EXT....

Well, and the Grand Prix, which is like 23 GALLONS per MILE...

EChas3
01-08-11, 12:13 PM
$7, $8, whatever... I worked my ass off to get my V. I will drive it until I'm broke. If some idiot shows up in my driveway with a promise-of-riches gas miser piece of crap econo-box save-the-world-car, I'll take my last $7 and go to the gas station and buy a gallon of gas to pour on it, light it, and watch it burn. Then I'll grab my 10 speed and take it to the local speed shop to see if we can change the sprockets or something to make it as fast as possible. I'm burning gas til either the gas or my money runs out. Real cars for life.

There is no shortage of oil. It pools on some golf courses in northern California. More oil leaked naturally from ocean floors in 2010 than was released by the Gulf oil spill.

I do not contend we shouldn't work on alternatives. They just can't yet compete with traditional cars without large tax subsidies or credits. It will take a technological breakthrough or 100 years use of current oil reserves before the alternatives are cost effective.

Maybe we are right to limit drilling in our country. Are we hoarding oil so that we have it when the rest of the world runs out?

Either way, the ban on drilling in the gulf (which was struck down in court) doesn't stop us from subsidizing other countries to drill for the same oil.

Jesda
01-08-11, 12:14 PM
My old 900 gets 17/21. It only has a three-speed autotragic so its spinning at 3000rpm at 70mph.

The 900/9-3 built from 1993 until 2002 was on a pretty dated platform by the end of the century. Unless you're interested in a Viggen I would go for a 2004 or later sedan or convertible. Those are fun to drive and get 27-30 on the highway. 2003 was a buggy year, in part because of issues with GM's electronic bus (so I've heard) so I'd avoid that year.

I'm still pondering a late-model 9-3, but I need to take this Seville up to Michigan for repairs before I think about another car.

EChas3
01-08-11, 12:16 PM
A roadster version of the Volt might be fun. A lot of communities license golf carts!

hueterm
01-08-11, 12:16 PM
I was just looking at one from the perspective of this thread, thinking that a turbo 4 would get better than 23 on the highway. I'll just stay w/my wagons... The 03's and later would be too expensive for a high gas price alternative.

I wonder what a Volvo V70 gets....?

ga_etc
01-08-11, 03:55 PM
.What were Acura Integras based off of? Civics?

Pretty sure that's the case. Though no Civic can touch an Integra for style. But same as the Prelude, they're getting hard to find without a ton of miles or modded and ragged all to hell. I would love to have an Integra GSR sedan... :drool:

Stingroo
01-08-11, 04:46 PM
I can't bring myself to drool over a Honda ANYTHING. Meh.

ted tcb
01-08-11, 04:56 PM
but I need to take this Seville up to Michigan for repairs before I think about another car.

Jesda, how has the 2001 STS been for you?
What type of repairs are you planning on performing?

(apologies for going O/T here).

ga_etc
01-08-11, 04:56 PM
http://www.theautochannel.com/media/photos/acura/96_acura_integra_gsrsedan.jpg

A little bit of a sleeper.

hueterm
01-08-11, 05:04 PM
Jesda, how has the 2001 STS been for you?
What type of repairs are you planning on performing?

(apologies for going O/T here).


OMG...how long do you have...?

johnny kannapo
01-08-11, 05:07 PM
I buzz around on this weather providing....90mpg WOT gotta love the chinese. Less than a 1 gallon tank, $800 new.

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/billytheshoe/f04e47df.jpg

Stingroo
01-08-11, 06:24 PM
Sorry Austin, that's more like a huge bit of ricer more than a little bit of sleeper. They're all molested (not that I consider it bad to do things to a Honda, it's just molested is the only word I can think of).

Jesda
01-08-11, 08:04 PM
Jesda, how has the 2001 STS been for you?
What type of repairs are you planning on performing?

(apologies for going O/T here).

So far:
--There was the bit of rust on the doors which was fixed before it became serious. That was a few hundred dollars to repair and helped me negotiate a lower price.
--Then there were tie rods and the intermediate steering shaft (got the part, still haven't installed it).
--Then rear tires, no big deal. Found a fantastic pair of Pirellis for $50 shipped!
--Trans fluid was drained and filled.
--It uses a quart or two of oil every 1-2k if I don't run it hard to seat the rings. --Road trips with gentle cruising seem to be when it consumes the most.
--I removed the dashboard and reglued it. I might need to do it again as the front of it is now warping a bit.

Upcoming:
--Wheel bearings
--Head gasket seepage -- Failed block test. Slow coolant loss, not overheating yet.
--Install new steering shaft
--Power steering pump probably needs to be replaced soon
--"Service Stability Sys" recently started appearing every couple weeks. I may never bother fixing that.

Fortunately, my expectations are realistic thanks to years on this forum. :D In exchange for something beautiful, cheap to buy, and pleasing to drive, I pay the price in repairs. I think a 2000 LS400 or 2001 LS430 with similar miles, both of which would be far, far more dependable, might cost $5500-$8000 compared to the $3800 I paid for my STS.

On top of that, after Ian agreed to buy the Seville from me, he changed his mind and offered me $2600 to take it back and compensate me for the repairs I did to the Ram. I agreed, so I've effectively paid $2200 for a car with bad head gaskets. Not too bad I suppose. I think the typical asking price for a Seville with blown HGs is anywhere from $500-$2000.

Some people, like Gary D, luck out with Sevilles that almost never give them major headaches, and some people end up with ones that are in far, far worse shape. I guess mine is somewhere in between.

Jesda
01-08-11, 08:09 PM
I'm looking forward to buying a pickup truck for the bookstore this summer, preferably a Ram (it grew on me), so bring on the gas prices. :)

ted tcb
01-08-11, 08:50 PM
Thanks for the update, Jesda.
Sorry to hear about the STS' issues, I had no idea.

As a sucker for punishment, I eventually accumulated 6 STS'.
Not the right car for someone like me who has to fix every small annoyance.
Like you, I would see people who lucked out and had no issues, and hope to have
the same luck .... I was never quite so fortunate.

Re gas prices, I currently have two Mazda 6's and one Miata, all 4 cylinder.
I'm loving the luxury and economy of my new Grand Touring 6 ... 7L/100 klm on the hwy.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-08-11, 09:20 PM
If I was going to buy a tiny econobox as a commuter car to add to the stable, NOT to replace everything, a CRX or Del Sol would be fun. Not as dull and as pedestrian as a Civic Coupe, but they make the most of their small size and tiny engine and bring a whole new type of driving fun to the table.

ga_etc
01-08-11, 09:37 PM
The Del Sol Si weighted 2,300-2,500lbs, from '94+ had 160HP, and an 8,000 RPM redline. Sound rather engaging to me.

Jesda
01-08-11, 09:40 PM
Re gas prices, I currently have two Mazda 6's and one Miata, all 4 cylinder.
I'm loving the luxury and economy of my new Grand Touring 6 ... 7L/100 klm on the hwy.

Really! Current or previous generation 6? Manual or auto? I rented a 6 sedan a few years ago and its still very easily one of my favorites. Older ones have finally come down to under $4000.

ted tcb
01-08-11, 10:27 PM
Really! Current or previous generation 6? Manual or auto? I rented a 6 sedan a few years ago and its still very easily one of my favorites. Older ones have finally come down to under $4000.

My wife has the 2004 Mazda6 ... I really like the handling and smoothness of her car.
Also, its been dead reliable for us.
My local dealer just got in a 2009 Grand Touring i model, in Black Cherry with cream leather.

It has the 2.5L 5spd auto, Xenon adjustable headlights, pushbutton start, 10 speaker Bose Centerpoint,
electroluminescent guages, 18" snowflake rims, etc. 30k and I paid around $16 USD.
Its definitely the nicest 6 I've ever seen ... I was looking for an economy car with luxury appointments, which I think I now have.
I like the style ... much like a Regal or ES350, plus it has the RX8 styled
fender flares.

The car is in my driveway right now, covered in snow. It looks just like this
one.


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/MAZDA-MAZDA6-2010-4SA37C.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/0812_10_z2009_mazda_6rear_interior_view.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/4764491902_6f6dbf85d0.jpg

ga_etc
01-08-11, 11:04 PM
Those gauges are cool. Great looking car altogether.

Jesda
01-08-11, 11:20 PM
A seriously underrated car. Used 6 wagons are hard to come by.

orconn
01-08-11, 11:41 PM
My brother in law had a Del Sol for a few years then sold it to my sister in law. I always considered the Del Sol a high school "teeny bopper" car. I'd really just hold out for a Miata, except the girls I knew that had them around D.C. said they were worthless in the snow and ice!

cadillac kevin
01-08-11, 11:55 PM
If gas were $7 a gallon, I'd keep my caddy, drive it on the weekends, and take the bus/ bike during the week. Theres no way in hell I would give up driving a land yacht. they're too damn nice.
If I had to pick a car, I'd throw hondas out the window (usually abused, riced out, or crazy expensive for a POS), pass on miatas (total chick car) and turdotas.
I'd get a Geo Storm. It looks like a bastardized baby camaro. If I recall, they werent bad performers for the time if you got the lotus based handling package and strapped a turbo to the engine (although I'd change out the drivetrain to something a bit more modern- like a turbo 4 cylinder)
Although I'd much rather bike or ride the bus than take a Geo storm anywhere, just if I had to pick a shitty econobox, thats what I would pick.
as for the guy who said that CFC made used car prices go sky high, thats a huge load of BS. my car only cost me $1500 (63xxx orig miles, rust free body), and my dad is buying a 1 owner low mileage well optioned roadmaster wagon for $1800. Thats about what both of those cars were worth before CFC. Dealerships might be charging more because of "the shortage of used cars" and the increased rarity, but they screw you over anyways. Besides, almost all the junkyard parts I've gotten for my car came from CFC cars (they had 4100s anyways, so no big loss)

Jesda
01-09-11, 12:09 AM
I had to pick a shitty econobox, thats what I would pick.
as for the guy who said that CFC made used car prices go sky high, thats a huge load of BS. my car only cost me $1500 (63xxx orig miles, rust free body), and my dad is buying a 1 owner low mileage well optioned roadmaster wagon for $1800.

During C4C, there was a brief upward movement in used car values as the price floor was influenced by the allowance from C4C. The program has been over for a while and large cars and trucks have mostly dropped in price since 2008's oil spike. The recent upward trend in new car sales and non-incentivized trade-ins has also contributed to replenishment of available used vehicles.

greencadillacmatt
01-09-11, 04:36 AM
Give me one of these with an Iron Duke and a stick shift, please.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/PontiacFiero.jpg

Jesda
01-09-11, 08:03 AM
Digging the orange creamsicle theme

Rolex
01-09-11, 09:04 AM
Give me one of these with an Iron Duke and a stick shift, please.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/PontiacFiero.jpg

When I was younger I thought these were one of the coolest little cars. Still, their styling holds up fairly well IMO. They look like a little Ferrari....which is appropriate considering most of them nowadays have been chopped up to become Ferrari and Lambo kit cars. :ace:

Here's a REALLY nice low miles car to drool over:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VERY-NICE-GT-6-CYLINDER-AUTOMATIC-AND-A-C-/370472951143?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item5641e89d67#ht_18791wt_1088

Another with 11k actual miles!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1988-Fiero-GT-T-Tops-all-original-ONLY-11k-miles-/280613857295?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4155e3a80f#ht_800wt_1088

Hijack over :peeking:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-09-11, 09:46 AM
I always liked the wheels on that white one. The Trans Ams had used them too. I thought they were a really cool, techy looking wheel. Very fitting for it's time.

EChas3
01-09-11, 12:08 PM
If I recall correctly, don't these Fiero's have the front suspension of a Chevette that requires replacement of almost all parts rather than a traditional allignement? My friend's story was that they don't easily get out of allignment but once they do, the design prohibits much (if any) adjustment.

Playdrv4me
01-09-11, 05:18 PM
If I recall correctly, don't these Fiero's have the front suspension of a Chevette that requires replacement of almost all parts rather than a traditional allignement? My friend's story was that they don't easily get out of allignment but once they do, the design prohibits much (if any) adjustment.

Some Expeditions, F-150s and Navigators also have a design that requires a kit if they get too far out of alignment.

orconn
01-09-11, 05:43 PM
I've always liked the Fiero, although in its first iteration it was kind of an under powered "commuter" (meaning drive it to the station to catch the 7:09 to Manhattan) car.

Back in the early eighties I was invited to a GM marketing research showing of what became the Fiero at the Long Beach Convention Center. The car they showed us was a mock up that remained pretty much the same as what was finally introduced, couple of years later as the Fiero.

I think one these would make a really cool collector car, especially since the price of a nice example doesn't seem to have headed to orbit!

Jesda
01-09-11, 07:56 PM
How is maintenance/upkeep on Fieros? Does being mid-engined double the cost of servicing anything?

drewsdeville
01-09-11, 08:19 PM
There are some exceptions, but not really more expensive in general. Most of the Fiero is relatively simple. The drivetrains are just typical GM FWD mounted in the rear. Space can be tight, but nothing abnormal when compared to the FWD's those drivetrains were also installed in.

I had to put a new rad in one once and had on hell of a time burping the system when trying to fill it with coolant. Since the engine is in the back and coolant flows from the engine to the rad through a few long pipes stretching the length of the car, getting all of the air out of the system without overheating the engine can be tricky. I ended up having to temporarily remove the thermostat to accelerate the process.

The front suspension is just a typical double wishbone type setup. Surprising since by that time most of GM's smaller cars were riding on struts. However the rear suspension is a little strange and, like mentioned in an earlier post, is basically an X-body's front suspension... Perhaps this could be a more costly area.

I don't know, overall, I don't find them to be anything horrendous (or at least any areas that would be double the cost over "normal").

Koooop
01-10-11, 11:17 AM
I bought one of those years ago. What a friggin' POS.

The shifting linkage sucks and they were prone to catching fire.

It handled nice, the speakers in the headrest was cool. But overall the car was so close to a Chevette... Now a V6 GT would be fun.

cadillac kevin
01-10-11, 07:33 PM
what about a late 80's fiero with a chevy v8? that would be killer . a chevy V8 will fit in the later ones (late 80's design) and were supposedly going to be put into production but the car got cancelled before its 3rd iteration when the V8 fiero was going to be introduced.

Playdrv4me
01-11-11, 03:14 AM
Can't believe I'm saying this, but Fiero begs for N*.

ga_etc
01-11-11, 04:58 AM
N* Fieros are sick. I can only imagine what they sound like with that wide open howl right behind your head. Eargasim.

Rolex
01-11-11, 06:49 PM
Can't believe I'm saying this, but Fiero begs for N*.

Ask and ye shall receive.

cqVKRsrEpfk
_OoB4h1sdF8

Or maybe an LS7 Fiero :bouncy:

JJ02Z7sSH30

Stingroo
01-11-11, 06:51 PM
Whoa. Fiero. LS7. Orange.

My eyes and ears are pleased.

drewsdeville
01-11-11, 08:32 PM
Yup, there are some GREAT build threads on Pennocks Fiero Forum. Awesome reading if you catch yourself bored, like between classes :banghead: :

http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro

Many of those guys know GM drivetrains like no one else (particularly the 4.X's, 3800's, and the 60 degree V6). PCM/BCM operation and tuning knowledge is included. Those guys know it all. Lots of great Northstar information with lots of picture documentation as well (perhaps even more than here!)

ThumperPup
05-08-11, 06:10 PM
http://www.phototravels.net/japan/pcd1663/rickshaw-84.3.jpg

Rigshaw those are fun to ride around in those guys work there butt's off
last time i got a ride on a RigShaw was in 2003
5 Chinesse RMB's would get you from one side of Teijing China to the other side of that city

and on a friday nite they where all over waiting to pick up the drunks lol

ThumperPup
05-08-11, 06:10 PM
i already answered this i think
but i changed my mind lol
when gas reaches 7 a gallon i will lead a revolution LOL or atleast try to start one