: Not impressed with the 2011 Cadillacs



SDCaddyLacky
01-03-11, 04:54 AM
I went to a local 2011 International Auto Show that had hundreds of cars on display to check out. First off, after sitting inside of many different makes and models from luxury, mid size, to economy and trucks, I wasn't impressed at all from the majority of them.

I feel like there is one person building all these cars. There isn't much of difference between a Chevy Malibu, to a Camry, to an Accord, to a Saab, to VW, to a Cadillac and so on. Everything feels pretty the same on the inside, besides for slightly better materials used.

Now I haven't driven any of these cars, so my opinions and thoughts are based solely on just the feeling and being able to sit inside of them. Right away, after checking out the STS and CTS, I was let down for something that cost over $50,000. I couldn't believe how damn small the interiors are in these models, hardly any leg and knee room, and for what your paying, the quality of materials was cheap. I can literally flex the center console and it made a creaking sound, too much fake plastic chrome that also felt flimsy when touched. Door panels creaked if slightly pushed down. Every car, no matter what cost, the leather felt so low grade, more like vinyl!! Seats are too hard, and were not comfortable to sit in.

Even the new Coupe version was just alright.

Man! People are really just paying for the name of these cars, not much else besides for performance.

The only Caddy I can say that felt really nice to me was the DTS. The materials, seats, and styling was great (probably since the display model was the top of the line trim). The cream color interior was awesome, it had a suede headliner, the leather seats were comfortable and of better quality than it's other models including there competitors. It even had these small reading lamps on the C-Pillar for rear seat passengers. The interior room was great, very tall people can easily feel comfortable in the DTS. Basically out of all the Cadillacs I sat in, the best ones was the Escalade, and of course the DTS, but for the pricing, people should definitely check out the Hyundai Equus. I also was able to sit inside that car, compared to the DTS, the Equus is a much better value, with more features and bigger car overall to impress people.

Cadillac really needs to bring back the Fleetwood, they cannot compete with the larger full sizers with reclining rear seats.

All the cars on display are what people will see when they hit up the dealerships. I will stick to what I got, I will never buy a new Cadillac, after what I saw, I rather purchase a Lexus or Audi, they both feel more luxurious compared to Cad.

What is really disappointing to me, is how you have to spend much more money on a car to obtain quality that was standard just 5 years ago. It seems like as time goes on, quality is declining even on the higher end makes, such as the Lexus 460, and BMW 750. They don't feel like $60,000-100,000 cars. Even the carpeting is thin and mouse fur like on the luxury models.

D3l7a3ch0
01-03-11, 06:41 AM
I was going to say, it's jumping the gun to judge a car when it's
not moving, or without driving it, but you mentioned it.

but I know what you mean. I sat in my friend's 2010 mustang
and I was really impressed with the interior lighting and all the
little features... but what's taking everyone so long?

The Tony Show
01-03-11, 09:03 AM
the Equus is a much better value, with more features and bigger car overall to impress people.

Cadillac really needs to bring back the Fleetwood, they cannot compete with the larger full sizers with reclining rear seats.

All the cars on display are what people will see when they hit up the dealerships. I will stick to what I got, I will never buy a new Cadillac, after what I saw, I rather purchase a Lexus or Audi, they both feel more luxurious compared to Cad.

Sounds to me like you're looking for a boulevard cruiser and a status symbol to show off, not performance, therefore the soft and sloppy Equus or even a Lexus LS460 might be your cup of tea. The majority of high-line buyers these days however, are interested in performance and gravitate toward the Mercedes, Cadillac, Audi or BMW. No one can make a car appeal to every single demographic at once.

D3l7a3ch0
01-03-11, 09:08 AM
While showing tourists Washignton, D.C., a guide pointed out where George Washington supposedly threw a dollar across the Potomac River.
"That's impossible," said a man. "No one could throw a coin that far."
"You have to remember," answered the guide."A dollar went a lot father in those days."

Lord Cadillac
01-03-11, 11:17 AM
SDCaddyLacky - you like the DTS because it never got the German treatment that the CTS and STS received. It really is a very comfortable car and I like just about everything about it other than the turning radius and engine power - which really isn't bad - just not competitive. Cadillac is moving away from the whole German "feel" and is moving closer to it's roots with cars like the current SRX and upcoming XTS. The new interior of the CTS is the most impressive I've ever seen in a GM car - but like you said, it's a bit small inside. Then again, this has been Cadillac's entry-level vehicle for awhile now - so we shouldn't expect it to be large inside.. The STS - well it's going away. You know why...

In regards to some of the other makes you mentioned - I don't agree that the Lexus LS doesn't feel like an expensive vehicle. While the quality has come down in ALL Lexus models - the LS460 is still of very high quality. And if you sit in the new BMW 7-Series, I'm not quite sure how you can say the quality has come "down" compared to that of the previous generations. Otherwise, vehicles are all starting to feel the same - especially in the mid-size class, because everyone is about on the same level technology-wise. Nobody really stands out anymore. The only way to stand out now is high tech features that other cars don't have. There's a lot of stuff you're going to find in an S550 or 750Li that you're not going to find in a Toyota Camry. A 5-Series or E-Class is a different story. The little guys are catching up...

orconn
01-03-11, 01:42 PM
If I were looking for a new Cadillac the DTS is the only one that would find a home in my garage. When it comes to performance sedans there are several that get the job done in better style than the current Cadillac sports models .... and the extra $20 grand would not put me off at his point. After all we are not talking cars like the kid's "muscle cars" of the sixties! While the looks and size of the DTS would not make it a number one choice, its' comfort and suitability for the American driving environment would make it a very attractive choice. Offerings from Lincoln and Chrysler just are not in the same class when it comes to style, quality and comfort. I am glad that Cadillac still has a car that suits the broad spectrum of American driving environments so well!

SDCaddyLacky
01-03-11, 04:13 PM
Don't get me wrong, I do like the styling of the CTS V, the interior is stylish, but the material quality isn't that great for the price. The leather quality is cheap.

The DTS has the best quality interior, it especially looks great in creamy white.

I don't mind the euro styling of it's lineup, I mean we are never going back to the old school era of Cadillacs, I understand that, I just wish Caddy would feel higher quality than it's competitors, since it doesn't at the moment. It's ok, but nothing spectacular.

The Audi A8 was the most impressive car there at the show when it comes to styling and it's interior. The 7 Series Beemers are also very nice, there's something about the European luxury cars, every time you close the door, it has a nice solid thunk, and the Lincoln and Cad's feel a little weaker when closing the doors shut, sorta make this "Clang" sound. The fit and finish is also a slightly higher in the BMW and Mercedes, even better in the Audi. The gap is closing though in many mid size cars, I was actually very surprised by the Hyundai Sonata, the car is pretty large inside, the interior was really stylish and it felt nice. More luxurious compared to the Camry and Accord.

Hyundai has improved itself in so many ways, it's a legitimate competitor in the US market, no longer is it a budget option for consumers looking for something simple. Simple is more of what the Camry stands for.:suspense:

Back to Cadillac, I didn't even know about the XTS, after checking out pics of the car, the interior is extremely nice, suede seats look super nice and comfy. Now I like that interior, the fold down tray is also very classy. The exterior design looks good, but I wish the side had more flare. If Cadillac just stretched it out a little longer, it would be perfect. It has to match or at least surpass the 7 Series and S-Class in size to even be considered by people looking at those cars. The lack of a V8 is another problem which could creep up on the XTS for premium car buyers. Cadillac needs to go all out, no more cutting back and making excuses. If the Europeans and Asian's brands are doing it, they can too.

Aron9000
01-03-11, 04:30 PM
I agree with the CTS interior being kind of junky. It LOOKS nice, but when you start feeling around and stuff it isn't the best.

And the base seats just suck IMO. Not comfortable and the plastic back and net just look cheesy. The last Trans Am used the same plastic back and net thing on the seatback, it looked cheesy in that car as well. And that stupid net thing always stretches out, and nobody wants to look at all the clutter. Just face the rear seat with vinyl and put in a nice pocket.

I wouldn't buy a base model CTS, a BMW 335i is a much more interesting and better performing car. The CTS-V is in a whole different ball game though.

Lord Cadillac
01-03-11, 05:56 PM
Back to Cadillac, I didn't even know about the XTS, after checking out pics of the car, the interior is extremely nice, suede seats look super nice and comfy. Now I like that interior, the fold down tray is also very classy. The exterior design looks good, but I wish the side had more flare. If Cadillac just stretched it out a little longer, it would be perfect. It has to match or at least surpass the 7 Series and S-Class in size to even be considered by people looking at those cars. The lack of a V8 is another problem which could creep up on the XTS for premium car buyers. Cadillac needs to go all out, no more cutting back and making excuses. If the Europeans and Asian's brands are doing it, they can too.

You and I, both! The side of the XTS is VERY bland - like the side of the new Escalade compared to other GM SUVs. It doesn't stand out from the side - AT ALL.

As for the XTS - it's not the "flagship" that's supposed to compete with the full-size premium sedan from other companies. THAT car is still a thought in the minds of GM executives but half of them REALLY want it. The other half does not.


I agree with the CTS interior being kind of junky. It LOOKS nice, but when you start feeling around and stuff it isn't the best.

And the base seats just suck IMO. Not comfortable and the plastic back and net just look cheesy. The last Trans Am used the same plastic back and net thing on the seatback, it looked cheesy in that car as well. And that stupid net thing always stretches out, and nobody wants to look at all the clutter. Just face the rear seat with vinyl and put in a nice pocket.

I wouldn't buy a base model CTS, a BMW 335i is a much more interesting and better performing car. The CTS-V is in a whole different ball game though.

I never felt the interior of the new CTS was "junky" but it wasn't as high quality as some other more expensive cars. Over all, I really do like the CTS. It isn't perfect - but what car really is? The 335i is a very nice small car. Surprisingly powerful..

D3l7a3ch0
01-03-11, 06:13 PM
335's are nice. two of my friends drive them. they have that euro "stiff-soft" suspension feel.

DUNNO ABOUT THE BLOCKY DASH THOUGH. who is designing their dash, it's as if the designers wanted to say "congrats on the BMW but this is the tacky dash you get for getting just a 3 series."

Lord Cadillac
01-03-11, 06:19 PM
I don't know WHAT BMW is thinking with the 3-Series interior. It's like they feel the rest of the car is good enough that you can just deal with it. The quality is there but the design is extremely boring.


335's are nice. two of my friends drive them. they have that euro "stiff-soft" suspension feel.

DUNNO ABOUT THE BLOCKY DASH THOUGH. who is designing their dash, it's as if the designers wanted to say "congrats on the BMW but this is the tacky dash you get for getting just a 3 series."

Lord Cadillac
01-03-11, 06:19 PM
I don't know WHAT BMW is thinking with the 3-Series interior. It's like they feel the rest of the car is good enough that you can just deal with it. The quality is there but the design is extremely boring.


335's are nice. two of my friends drive them. they have that euro "stiff-soft" suspension feel.

DUNNO ABOUT THE BLOCKY DASH THOUGH. who is designing their dash, it's as if the designers wanted to say "congrats on the BMW but this is the tacky dash you get for getting just a 3 series."

orconn
01-03-11, 07:37 PM
I find the 3 series BMW interior to be sort of "econo" quality. The materials are OK at its price point ... let's face this is "executive" entry level. I like the instrument binnacle, which has remained essentially the same for over 40 years. The rest of the dash follows the techno boombox fad so prevalent among all cars to day. In my opinion this fad looks cheap and is not user friendly .... but I guess sells to this generation of tasteless techno freaks.

gary88
01-03-11, 10:00 PM
I like my interior, I've come to appreciate the simplicity of it. Everything is where it should be and they didn't go overboard on anything. When I sat in a new S4 I didn't like the abundance of buttons everywhere, especially down by the shifter where you have to take your eyes off the road to see them.

Aron9000
01-04-11, 12:00 AM
I like my interior, I've come to appreciate the simplicity of it. Everything is where it should be and they didn't go overboard on anything. When I sat in a new S4 I didn't like the abundance of buttons everywhere, especially down by the shifter where you have to take your eyes off the road to see them.

Agreed, I think the 3 series interior is really nice and uncluttered. There aren't a million chrome buttons and knobs and lots of textures like the CTS, its just very German, very clean. I'd take one without the I-Drive myself, if I need navigation, those $200 Tom-Toms are better anyways.

And I agree with your assesment on the Audi with buttons on the console, piss poor place to put them. Reminds me of 80's Ferraris and Lambos who had all the buttons in the center console and not in the dash.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 12:04 AM
Aside from the CTS Sedan/CTS-V, and to a lesser extent, the Escalade family, none of the 2011 Cadillacs really do anything for me.

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 01:09 AM
I went to a local 2011 International Auto Show that had hundreds of cars on display to check out. First off, after sitting inside of many different makes and models from luxury, mid size, to economy and trucks, I wasn't impressed at all from the majority of them.

I feel like there is one person building all these cars. There isn't much of difference between a Chevy Malibu, to a Camry, to an Accord, to a Saab, to VW, to a Cadillac and so on. Everything feels pretty the same on the inside, besides for slightly better materials used.

Now I haven't driven any of these cars, so my opinions and thoughts are based solely on just the feeling and being able to sit inside of them. Right away, after checking out the STS and CTS, I was let down for something that cost over $50,000. I couldn't believe how damn small the interiors are in these models, hardly any leg and knee room, and for what your paying, the quality of materials was cheap. I can literally flex the center console and it made a creaking sound, too much fake plastic chrome that also felt flimsy when touched. Door panels creaked if slightly pushed down. Every car, no matter what cost, the leather felt so low grade, more like vinyl!! Seats are too hard, and were not comfortable to sit in.

Even the new Coupe version was just alright.

Man! People are really just paying for the name of these cars, not much else besides for performance.

The only Caddy I can say that felt really nice to me was the DTS. The materials, seats, and styling was great (probably since the display model was the top of the line trim). The cream color interior was awesome, it had a suede headliner, the leather seats were comfortable and of better quality than it's other models including there competitors. It even had these small reading lamps on the C-Pillar for rear seat passengers. The interior room was great, very tall people can easily feel comfortable in the DTS. Basically out of all the Cadillacs I sat in, the best ones was the Escalade, and of course the DTS, but for the pricing, people should definitely check out the Hyundai Equus. I also was able to sit inside that car, compared to the DTS, the Equus is a much better value, with more features and bigger car overall to impress people.

Cadillac really needs to bring back the Fleetwood, they cannot compete with the larger full sizers with reclining rear seats.

All the cars on display are what people will see when they hit up the dealerships. I will stick to what I got, I will never buy a new Cadillac, after what I saw, I rather purchase a Lexus or Audi, they both feel more luxurious compared to Cad.

What is really disappointing to me, is how you have to spend much more money on a car to obtain quality that was standard just 5 years ago. It seems like as time goes on, quality is declining even on the higher end makes, such as the Lexus 460, and BMW 750. They don't feel like $60,000-100,000 cars. Even the carpeting is thin and mouse fur like on the luxury models.Basically, you just want a large Cadillac. Because to say the DTS is the best of the bunch is a joke. The car hasn't had a major redo since 2003 and it's FWD architecture saddles it with the driving dynamics of a golf cart. Maybe you want to just lounge when you're in a car, but the buying public increasingly disagrees with you. The CTS/CTS-V is an almost universally heralded car that makes the Car and Driver 10 Best list annually. It is a world class sedan.

And if Cadillac ever made a flagship that could spank a Lexus LS460L, Mercedes S Class and a 750Li all at the same time and called it the (gasp!) Fleetwood, they'd sell maybe a 100 of them. It's a dinosaur. Let it go...

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 01:11 AM
Oh, and I can't drive a DTS for long distances. The seats themselves may be comfortable but they don't extend to the doors. That means my left leg is splayed out to brace against the door and my hip kills after only a couple hours. Make the damn thing comfortable and maybe I can deal with the archaic driving dynamics...

Playdrv4me
01-04-11, 01:24 AM
I agree with Jim, the DTS is yesterday's news, and the quality isn't anything to write home about. On the 2001 STS Jesda had, the lumbar adjustment control was pushed inside the seat. I spent 15 or 20 minutes pulling it back out of there and getting it to stay in place. I noticed that a 2006 DTS I looked at one day still used the exact same switch and it was also just about pushed inside the seat.

The suede headliner and leather wrapped dash are about the only things in that car that put it on par with the top of the line LS430 from... 2001.

As far as a propietary vehicle, the V is the best car Cadillac has left right now, followed by the Escalade. Unfortunately they don't get points for the Escalade because it's merely a reskin of the Tahoe with an equally disappointing interior.

Given that, we can quantify the last "Glory Days" of Cadillac simply as the time when they had the most original vehicles, closest to the time those vehicles were still fresh. I'd say that time was 2004. The Seville was still moving along strongly, the DTS was only 4 years old and also remained fresh and a hot seller with slight improvements year by year, the CTS was the darling of the entry luxury market and received engine improvements in 2004 as well as the introduction of the V, the XLR was a brand new vehicle and the most original Cadillac design in a long time, the SRX finally gave Cadillac a foot in the mid-size luxury SUV category, and of course the Escalade - though not original to Cadillac (meaning a simple re-skin), had just been through a major interior update in 2003 and was still the hottest full-size luxury SUV on the market.

77CDV
01-04-11, 01:58 AM
New cars in general aren't doing much for me right now. Looks like I'll be hanging onto the Eldo for the foreseeable future.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 09:08 AM
As far as today's offerings from luxury brands is concerned, Cadillac is one of my least favorite. They vast majority of the line is too small for my liking, is powered by engines that are too small in displacement and cylinders for my liking, and aside from the CTS and Escalade, I don't find any of their models particularly physically appealing. And to top it off, they've never built any sort of a full sized luxury sedan, atleast not a proper RWD one since the Fleetwood was discontinued in '96. The DTS is off in it's own little planet, not being competitive with other cars of it's size because it's FWD. I simply like the offerings from BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Lexus more because they're more widespread, they offer bigger cars with more widely offered proper nicely sized V8 engines and they all offer a full sized luxury sedan of the executive class.

Lord Cadillac
01-04-11, 10:41 AM
What a shame. Right? I never thought that day would come - but there really is nothing at Cadillac I want to buy right now. I love the CTS-V but I'd never be able to enjoy what it's best at around me. Even touching the gas a little harder than everyone else on the road is "reckless driving" in Palm Beach County. So that leaves anything extremely fast off the option list for me. I love the Escalade but with all the talk of $4.00+ per gallon gas prices looming in the not-too-distant future, I don't want another vehicle that the local Cadillac dealership won't accept back as a trade-in (this already happened to me once).

So what's left? The STS? Nah. I don't want a V6 without at least turbo - so the CTS is out. The SRX is way too weak - and just not my kind of vehicle. The DTS is nice but if I'm going to have a big full-size luxury sedan, I want more than the DTS offers.

If they put the right drivetrain in the ATS that may be a possibility for me. Let's see what happens with the XTS...

I like luxury vehicles. And while Cadillac does build luxurious vehicles, even their own executives call the brand "near luxury". Hyundai is "near luxury" - though with the Genesis and Equus - they've certainly upped the ante..

I really hope Cadillac can continue to make a lot of sales without falling into the hole of offering value luxury for too long. Make the sales and then bring the brand up-market again.


As far as today's offerings from luxury brands is concerned, Cadillac is one of my least favorite. They vast majority of the line is too small for my liking, is powered by engines that are too small in displacement and cylinders for my liking, and aside from the CTS and Escalade, I don't find any of their models particularly physically appealing. And to top it off, they've never built any sort of a full sized luxury sedan, atleast not a proper RWD one since the Fleetwood was discontinued in '96. The DTS is off in it's own little planet, not being competitive with other cars of it's size because it's FWD. I simply like the offerings from BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Lexus more because they're more widespread, they offer bigger cars with more widely offered proper nicely sized V8 engines and they all offer a full sized luxury sedan of the executive class.

The Tony Show
01-04-11, 11:25 AM
If you'd buy an ATS with a proper drivetrain, why not go with a 3.6L CTS? The interior is roomier than what the ATS will be, and will probably have more in the way of toys than the ATS as well (parking camera, etc).

Lord Cadillac
01-04-11, 02:04 PM
I was originally crazy about the ATS when I heard about the ATS-V.. After seeing the cops go absolutely nuts around here the past few months, I lost that feeling about having a really fast car. Then I started thinking if the 3.0 liter twin turbo engine actually happened - I could have a car that's reasonably good on gas (when driven normally) and performs well if and when I need it to. I don't need a car to hit 60 miles per hour in 3.9 seconds (extreme) - and I'm really better off if my car cannot do that - but I like the feeling of being in the high 4 second range like the 335i or M56..

I recently had a loaner with the weaker V6 in the CTS - and Danielle and I both loved everything about it except for performance. We even felt the build quality was fine for us (we're not extremely picky). And around town performance is 100% perfect. On the highway, not so much. I know the 3.6DI would be sufficient - but I just want something a little more than that. Really, a V8 CTS would be perfect. Or a twin turbo V6.. I wouldn't take a Lexus GS350 either - which is very similar in performance to the CTS. I just want something with more power than that. But at the same time, I don't need a Corvette. Something in between...

Give me an ATS or CTS that won't embarrass me if and when I'm feeling stupid enough to race a G37 and I'll sign up. Forget about a V-Series because I'll make the mistake of racing a GT-R up to 160 miles per hour and never drive again.

On the other hand, give me a true full-size rear wheel drive flagship with a V8 and all the luxury amenities found in a Hyundai Equus - and I'll lease it tomorrow. Just don't tell me it's going to cost $80k...

SDCaddyLacky
01-04-11, 02:15 PM
People should really check out the Equus, I'm not kidding, it's a really nice car. Just because it's made by Hyundai, some people are gonna hate on it, but you have to give the company credit for at least trying to go upscale. It's a full size car, it has a presence, tons of features, and you feel like your someone important.

Cadillac doesn't even care to compete in this class, I am starting to feel like it's an American thing, because even Lincoln is jumping ship on the big car market.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 02:36 PM
It's funny, we owned the big car market up through the '80s, and now the domestics won't even go into it.

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 03:26 PM
People should really check out the Equus, I'm not kidding, it's a really nice car. Just because it's made by Hyundai, some people are gonna hate on it, but you have to give the company credit for at least trying to go upscale. It's a full size car, it has a presence, tons of features, and you feel like your someone important.

Cadillac doesn't even care to compete in this class, I am starting to feel like it's an American thing, because even Lincoln is jumping ship on the big car market.
First off, I like the Equus. However, they decided to not really change things up when they refused to do a livery option, drop some of the extra gadgets and price it in the mid to high 40s.

As for Cadillac, they WANT to compete. But a little hiccup called bankruptcy kind of threw things off track. The XTS may be a winner with a flagship on the way?

thebigjimsho
01-04-11, 03:28 PM
It's funny, we owned the big car market up through the '80s, and now the domestics won't even go into it.

With today's safety needs(with all the weight it entails) and questionable gas market, it's a risky business...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-04-11, 03:34 PM
The only reason we can't get into it is because GM is in such tough fiscal waters, and they don't have the engineering money to release something like that. All of the other manufacturers that bring cars like this to the table are European or Asian, and the fuel economy and safety standards that they have to deal with is unreal compared to what we have in the US.

Jesda
01-04-11, 04:31 PM
I like the 3-series interior too. The layout is classic BMW. Nothing needs to really change. I did hear about some cheap bits here and there, but I havent been in one long enough to know first hand.