: DTS Tunes using EFILive Starting point to our NEW V series?



billdaman
01-01-11, 02:26 PM
There is a body of work which commenced in 2008 and into 2009 by forum members TexasJim and bwnunnally tuning texasjims 2006 Performance DTS using a EFILivetuner. http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/?p=1142

According to their test transcripts some very nice HP gains were generated, but to their surprise the HP gain resulted in very little reduction in acceleration times. At the time they hypothesised this may to be due to torque management in the TCM.

Texasjim vowed to get to the bottom of the issue, however I can find no followup activities to their initial controlled experiment.

Is anyone on the DTS forum aware of or has follow up data garnered from the research undertaken by these fine individuals? I find their work to be fascinating as applied to the quest of a few members (myself included) to create an in your face V series DTS, step by step, and keep out of range of the "emblem police" :^)

If anyone knows them please shout out to to either of these guys so we can benefit from their past endevors and research. It appears that these gentleman have moved on to other Caddys types to improve. and have effectively disappeared from the forum. Any chance that Texasjim is related to our own SuperJim?

LONG LIVE THE NEW DTS V SERIES :bouncy:

Superjim
01-01-11, 03:51 PM
There is a body of work which commenced in 2008 and into 2009 by forum members TexasJim and bwnunnally tuning texasjims 2006 Performance DTS using a EFILivetuner. http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/?p=1142

According to their test transcripts some very nice HP gains were generated, but to their surprise the HP gain resulted in very little reduction in acceleration times. At the time they hypothesised this may to be due to torque management in the TCM.

Texasjim vowed to get to the bottom of the issue, however I can find no followup activities to their initial controlled experiment.

Is anyone on the DTS forum aware of or has follow up data garnered from the research undertaken by these fine individuals? I find their work to be fascinating as applied to the quest of a few members (myself included) to create an in your face V series DTS, step by step, and keep out of range of the "emblem police" :^)

If anyone knows them please shout out to to either of these guys so we can benefit from their past endevors and research. It appears that these gentleman have moved on to other Caddys types to improve. and have effectively disappeared from the forum.

Any chance that Texasjim is related to our own SuperJim?

LONG LIVE THE NEW DTS V SERIES :bouncy:

One and the same...:D

Texas Jim

billdaman
01-01-11, 05:54 PM
One and the same...:D

Texas Jim

Well please tell us what was the final result of the trials!

Superjim
01-01-11, 06:18 PM
Well please tell us what was the final result of the trials!

I ended up buying the whole EFI Live tuning system.

The DTS has issues coming off the line "HARD"... :(
It will either spin and lose traction...which really hurts your 0 to 60 time...
or it will spin and get severe wheel hop...

When it gets wheel hop...the sensors interpret the wheel hop as DETONATION and pulls timing and by doing so... killing the power.

I have did a best 0 to 60 of 6 sec flat...and a best 1/4 mile of 15.01.

My conclusion at this time, if I want it to go faster thru the 1/4 is....
I need two things...
A higher stall speed torque converter and a set of drag radials.

The stock converter holds the RPM "WAY TOO LOW" for a good launch off of the line.

But if I change the converter...it will be a little more hassle to use as an everyday driver.

Texas Jim

tedcmiller
01-02-11, 09:52 PM
No matter what you do, the DTS will not be a V. It is too heavy. Besides the weight, you can't get 556 HP out of a 4.6 liter Northstar engine and expect it to stay together very long. Cadillac has never produced a DTS V and probably never will.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-02-11, 10:09 PM
No, they didnt, thank you for pointing about the obvious. The sky is blue and the grass is green.

But I will make a DTS-V. Also, I dont care about your fun ruining for the rest of us. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine, but when you tread on my toes then you are wrong. Everyone here knows that there was never a 556 Northstar, its also a common LS series motor. I can too make over 500 from this little dog, I can turbo any motor. I know how to wrech and saying the impossiable, I cant understand what you mean with that word. Your giving my problems, and I am a problem solver, because I firmly believe that there is NOTHING that I can over come. Texas Jim has started to pave the path and I tend to follow him as he is the leading expert at the moment.

No Ted, YOU can NOT have a DTS-V.

Jim and I can, because thats what we are paying for and what we are building.

Happy motoring.

Lev Blekher
01-03-11, 07:39 AM
While I love the classic luxury of the DeVille, I always wanted to have a muscle one as well. Keep us updated with pics and stats. I'd like to do some things to mine in the future.

Superjim
01-03-11, 08:37 AM
While I love the classic luxury of the DeVille, I always wanted to have a muscle one as well. Keep us updated with pics and stats. I'd like to do some things to mine in the future.

Not trying to brag...but I think mine does pretty well. :)
In addition to playing with the engine parameters in the ECM...I have also played with the TCM and changed some of the parameters of how and WHEN it shifts UP and also RAISED the point where it will DOWNSHIFT when you stand on it.

As near as I can tell..based on airflow at WOT and acceleration, using a RACE TECHNOLOGY AP22...it is around 330 HP now.

And for Ted... "NO" I have not had it on the DYNO to check the "ACTUAL, REAL, TRUE HP"...and yes, I kinda figured out that it ain't 556 Supercharged HP...AND that it is a heavy car and...and ...oh well...:)

To continue.........:)
The main problem I have with the added power, is WHEELSPIN.
If/when I can solve that problem it will be a a good bit quicker off the line.

Where it really excels now is from about 30/35 mph on up to whatever speed you want to go.
That does away with the wheelspin issue unless you are on worn asphalt.
Then it will break the tires loose when it downshifts back to 1st gear. :) :)

I do a good bit on mountain driving in Colorado and with the MIRC suspension, good tires and the added power...it is pretty respectable for a big heavy car.

I will say this...it is a WHOLE LOT MORE FUN to drive since it was tuned.

Texas Jim

billdaman
01-03-11, 02:20 PM
Not trying to brag...but I think mine does pretty well. :)

I will say this...it is a WHOLE LOT MORE FUN to drive since it was tuned.

Texas Jim

Heey Texas Jim, not to display too much of my ignorance about how the 4L80 works, but could the torque managements effect on the 0 - 60 times be helped by a shift kit and upgraded valve paks without sacrifing ride quality?

billdaman
01-03-11, 02:31 PM
No matter what you do, the DTS will not be a V. It is too heavy. Besides the weight, you can't get 556 HP out of a 4.6 liter Northstar engine and expect it to stay together very long. Cadillac has never produced a DTS V and probably never will.

Ted, after all this discussion, honestly I dont know what you are talking about...I have a DTS V series right in my driveway, (see pic) and its not too heavy. When Texas Jim and USS Black pearl get done with modifing their DTS vehicles they will be better than any RPO V series vehicles

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/billdaman/004.jpg

ffrog
01-03-11, 02:40 PM
No, they didnt, thank you for pointing about the obvious. The sky is blue and the grass is green.

But I will make a DTS-V. Also, I dont care about your fun ruining for the rest of us. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine, but when you tread on my toes then you are wrong. Everyone here knows that there was never a 556 Northstar, its also a common LS series motor. I can too make over 500 from this little dog, I can turbo any motor. I know how to wrech and saying the impossiable, I cant understand what you mean with that word. Your giving my problems, and I am a problem solver, because I firmly believe that there is NOTHING that I can over come. Texas Jim has started to pave the path and I tend to follow him as he is the leading expert at the moment.

No Ted, YOU can NOT have a DTS-V.

Jim and I can, because thats what we are paying for and what we are building.

Happy motoring.

You hang in there and follow your dream. I think that the entire forum except for 1 or maybe 2 are behind you 100%. Don’t let the ignorance of some spoil that for you. Maybe if there are objections to you calling it a DTS-V maybe you could call it a DTS-VV. That surely would stir up the pot.

Keep safe on your tour and please do keep us posted both on your tour and your DTS-V.

SEMPER FI

ffrog

Superjim
01-03-11, 03:22 PM
Heey Texas Jim, not to display too much of my ignorance about how the 4L80 works, but could the torque managements effect on the 0 - 60 times be helped by a shift kit and upgraded valve paks without sacrifing ride quality?


A shift kit would not affect Torque Management at all.
Torque Management is all electronic and gets it information from various sensors...like the wheel speed sensors, speedometer, yaw sensors, accelerometer, antiknock sensors...ans so on.
It is a very sophisticated algorithm in the TCM and for most people it is a really great thing.

There is only 25% torque management on mine.
I adjusted it inside the Transmission Control Module. :thumbsup:

That's one reason that wheelspin is now a problem. :(

Stabilitrac still works like it always did.
I love StabiliTrac...it allows you to do things that the DTS was never intended to do once you understand just what it can and can't do. :)

Texas Jim

ltdltc
01-03-11, 03:34 PM
The Torque Managment on the LD8 borders on the annoying at least in my car. The car feels like it could be going faster but the TCM says nope this is what you get.

Superjim
01-03-11, 03:54 PM
The Torque Managment on the LD8 borders on the annoying at least in my car. The car feels like it could be going faster but the TCM says nope this is what you get.

See my previous post.
Torque Management can be adjusted in the TCM.

makes it more fun to drive too. :) :)

Texas Jim

tedcmiller
01-03-11, 04:19 PM
I don't care what you do to the engine, suspension, etc. a DTS will never be a V. A DTS, with V logo stuck on it, is still not a V.

ffrog
01-03-11, 04:54 PM
If I hit the Mega Million Lottery tomorrow (330 MIL) I will have my 06 DTS Performance transformed into one of these.

And yes it will be a DTS-V.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbuDRA4zNbw

Superjim
01-03-11, 05:25 PM
I love that video... :) :)

Jim

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-03-11, 06:17 PM
I don't care what you do to the engine, suspension, etc. a DTS will never be a V. A DTS, with V logo stuck on it, is still not a V.

Ok, a Lemans Station wagon will never be a GTO, I will give you that.

But you can one faster, better handeling, and most of all more interesting.

We, as Cadillac owners do not have SS,GT,GXP,R/T, or anything but V.

If it looks V, moves like a V, and take corners like a V, what should we do?

If it helps you sleep at night, remember that this is not a makeup car, its going to be down and dirty, its wearing the V to respect the roots of the V series, and I will ensure that it is honest and true to that.

billdaman
01-03-11, 06:33 PM
A shift kit would not affect Torque Management at all.
Torque Management is all electronic and gets it information from various sensors...like the wheel speed sensors, speedometer, yaw sensors, accelerometer, antiknock sensors...ans so on.
It is a very sophisticated algorithm in the TCM and for most people it is a really great thing.

There is only 25% torque management on mine.
I adjusted it inside the Transmission Control Module. :thumbsup:

That's one reason that wheelspin is now a problem. :(

Stabilitrac still works like it always did.
I love StabiliTrac...it allows you to do things that the DTS was never intended to do once you understand just what it can and can't do. :)

Texas Jim

Sorry Jim I mis stated my question, would the shift kit help make up for the negative effects of torque management by virtue of firming up the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts? In your test (under Super Jim) you hadnt gotten into the TCM yet. Did you mod your Tranny in any way outside of changing the parameters in the TCM? Also the EFIlive tuner, is it a one vehicle only VIN locked tune or can it be used on multiple vehicles?

Superjim
01-03-11, 10:43 PM
Sorry Jim I mis stated my question, would the shift kit help make up for the negative effects of torque management by virtue of firming up the 1-2 and 3-4 shifts? In your test (under Super Jim) you hadnt gotten into the TCM yet. Did you mod your Tranny in any way outside of changing the parameters in the TCM? Also the EFIlive tuner, is it a one vehicle only VIN locked tune or can it be used on multiple vehicles?

I will try to explain a little...this will be pretty long as I don't write very well. :)

In my opinion, based on what I know about torque management...a shift kit would not alleviate much if "ANY" of the issues associated with the torque management "NANNY ATTITUDE"

It thinks IT knows best what to do and that you are not supposed to actually "DRIVE" the DTS.

The blue haired grandma, idling sown to the beauty shop every Tuesday afternoon, would dampen her depends if the tires ever spun and squalled a little bit. :D
The Torque Management setting are all in the ECM and TCM.

By using EFI Live...They can be reduced or done away with completely.
Speed limiters can be adjusted or removed.
Shift points...the RPM when it UPSHIFTS and shift FIRMNESS and the actual shift QUICKNESS can all be adjusted...
(Mine shifts FIRMLY at 7000 RPM).. :cloud9:
Fuel tables and fuel slopes for the engine can be changed.
Timing tables can be adjusted.
Downshift points can also be adjusted...meaning that it will downshift back to a lower gear at a higher speed that it does now...thus keeping you in the higher RPM band where the N* makes the most power.
There are way too many things that can be adjusted and changed to even attempt to list.

The car will still shift nice and smooth when driving "NORMAL" and you can barely tell when it shifts gears except for the slight hum of the N* and the tach moving.
But when you "STAND ON IT"...the shifts are then real nice and firm.
And by turning off Traction Control...it is almost like driving a whole different car.
To a certain extent...it is a Jekyll and Hyde car.. :D :D :D
Nice and easy and smooth if Grandma is driving...completely different if you want to "GO SOMEWHERE QUICK"

EFI Live is not VIN locked...you can use it to program up to 220 vehicles.
But...it is only pre-configured with two VIN licenses.
Each additional license cost 99 bucks.

My son had a 2007 GMC Sierra Denali with the 6.2 engine and 6 speed transmission.
I had the DTS and a 2006 Chevy truck with the 4.3 V6.

Later I wanted to tune the 4.3 V6 and I had to pay another 99 bucks for the license to tune the 4.3...

"IF" I bought another DTS tomorrow...it would cost me another 99 bucks to tune it...unless I took the ECM and TCM from "THIS" DTS and put them on the new car...which is what I would do.

I still have the original ECM and TCM I would put back on this car :) :)

I bought an extra ECM and TCM, as did my son...and we both had the vehicles originally tuned by BLACKBEAR PERFORMANCE...that way, if we didn't like it we could always revert back to the original.

We liked the original tune VERY WELL...but we thought we could get even more from the my car and his truck. :D :D
You know how we are...never satisfied...and My son is a high level software programmer for a major national bank...so we thought we could get a little more out of it.

SO...we then bought the entire EFILive package .. so we could tweak the tune on his truck and my DTS.
We (mostly him) spent several weeks studying how to do it and experimenting on his truck and my car...then several MORE weeks getting it JUST RIGHT.. :D
That was over a year ago and I am still happy with it.
EFI Live, FlashScan V2 comes pre-configured with two VIN licenses.

As a disclaimer... I have no monetary interest in EFI Live....just a satisfied customer...but I do know the guy that travels around all over the country tuning GM vehicles. He tunes several hundred a a year.

I have rambled enough for now...

Texas Jim

tedcmiller
01-05-11, 01:49 PM
A DTS will never corner or move like a real V. Regardless of what you do to it, it is not a V. Call it what you want. Kidding yourself or putting stick-on logos on it will not make a V out of a DTS. I am bored with this thread and will not be reading it again.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-05-11, 10:41 PM
A DTS will never corner or move like a real V. Regardless of what you do to it, it is not a V. Call it what you want. Kidding yourself or putting stick-on logos on it will not make a V out of a DTS. I am bored with this thread and will not be reading it again.

Can someone get this guy a proctologist?

Lev Blekher
01-05-11, 11:46 PM
I think he never truly read the thread to begin with.