: Popular Mechanics 1993 Fleetwood Towing Article



lesinfamous
12-26-10, 08:24 PM
Bumped into this interesting article...they really maxed it out by hitching a 7,000 boat and going on a 2,000 mile road trip!!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=4-MDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA36&dq=cadillac+towing&hl=en&ei=4dkXTeaROcP68AbVwPmJDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cadillac%20towing&f=false

If the link doesn't go directly to the article, just scroll down to page 36..enjoy!!

Additional articles:

87' brougham vs towncar

http://books.google.com/books?id=zeQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA53&dq=cadillac+brougham&hl=en&ei=6O4XTYPOGMK88ga6tpy7Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=cadillac%20brougham&f=false

1990 brougham vs towncar vs imperial (reminds me of the 1975 battle of the silken giants article)

http://books.google.com/books?id=8odMcadillacownersz19IC&pg=PA64&dq=cadillac+brougham&hl=en&ei=SO4XTdLQJcGs8AaQoInODQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=cadillac%20brougham&f=false

and..another one

http://books.google.com/books?id=8odMcadillacownersz19IC&pg=PA64&dq=cadillac+brougham&hl=en&ei=p_cXTcG8NIGs8Aak3fS1Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=cadillac%20brougham&f=false

if the links don't work just head over to google books and search cadillac brougham

jayoldschool
12-26-10, 09:51 PM
Yep, reliable luxury, tows 7000lbs, gets 25mpg. Good thing they discontinued it.

sven914
12-27-10, 01:55 AM
Reading these articles makes me love my car even more. It was obsolete before they even built it and yet Cadillac did it anyway, almost as a giant middle finger to the world *screw you progress*.

It's funny how these review dudes always focus on the antiquatedness of the power(less)house, but ignore that the entire car is antiquated, so they go together. It might just be me, but if I saw a car that looked, inside and out, as if it fell out of a bad disco movie, and then popped the hood to find port fuel injection, I would be pretty pissed off.

SDCaddyLacky
12-27-10, 11:03 PM
It looks like the articles talking about the Cadillac Bro Vs Town Car, the Caddy didn't fair too well against it. Now I wonder how the last generation Fleetwood Broughams would fair against any 90's Town Car if compared in those reviews. I bet the Fleetwoods would win hands down, because of the LT1 engine, it's bigger interior, comfortable ride and probably better build than the Town Car. Not saying that the 90's Town Cars is built badly, because it's not, it's just not built any better than the Fleetwoods. The interior in the Town Cars are actually pretty low quality, the dash board being the worst offender. Plus they tend to have way more issues than the Fleetwoods, too many things fail in them.

Aron9000
12-28-10, 01:42 AM
I certainly wouldn't feel safe towing 7000lbs in my 1991, even though it has the same motor:bonkers:

And I do agree with Popular mechanics guys on the 307 v8 in the Brougham. This is Cadillac, its supposed to be the best they have to offer. Why couldn't they stick a 350 TPI motor from a Corvette under the hood and give it some balls to go along with all the swagger.

drewsdeville
12-28-10, 10:18 AM
I certainly wouldn't feel safe towing 7000lbs in my 1991, even though it has the same motor:bonkers:

I was going to say the same thing. There are lots of cars you could throw a hitch on and test pulling 7k around with if you wanted, but I sure as hell wouldn't trust my family's safety in doing so.

SDCaddyLacky
12-28-10, 03:33 PM
I would also feel pretty scared to tow something that huge. Cars that can tow 7000lbs, better weigh over 5000lbs, because you need a heavy car to pull that kind of weight around without the frame bending or causing problems while driving.

Cadillac was stupid to put in a 307 in a Bro, with that kind of lackluster power, how is anyone suppose to get around soundly? Towing even 4000lbs would be stressful and too much for a way underpowered 307. But hey this ain't the 60's or 70's anymore.

I remember my mom telling me that when she was a little kid, my grandfather used to take them camping every summer in their 63 Impala Station Wagon. They would tow a mid size trailer, which was actually big from what I saw in old pictures, weighing at least 3,500lbs from the looks or slightly more. Anyway, that car never broke down from what she remembers, they used to packed the car full of stuff, with 4 kids in the back, including my grandmother and grandfather, food, and whatever else they had which was a ton of weight to pull, the Impala also towed great and she said it was the most reliable car he ever owned. The trip was from Los Angeles all the way to Oregon!

Aron9000
12-29-10, 03:40 AM
Yeah, if you're going to be towing anything over 5,000lbs on a regular basis, you need a late model 3/4 or 1 ton diesel truck IMO. I know 1/2 ton gas trucks are rated to tow more than 5000lbs, but they just aren't as stout as the 3/4 or 1 tons. Weaker transmissions, smaller rear ends, suspension/frame not designed for a huge load, smaller gas engines. For ultimate reliability/durability, you just need a bigger, better built truck.

That being said, I would gladly tow any smaller load under 4000lbs in my Brougham occasionally. Its set up a lot like a 1/2 ton truck, same motor, trans, rear end, etc. It might have a hard time pulling a boat out of a slippery ramp though with the open diff.

The-Dullahan
01-01-11, 09:59 PM
Yeah, the Brougham vs Town Car one was interesting. I have heard some real horror stories about the steering and handling on those Town Cars...

I'd take one of each though, if parking allowed.

Or better, a Town Car Hearse (Ewwww, short wheelbase)

Also, on a semi-related note...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230553717066+&viewitem=#v4-37

sven914
01-02-11, 02:38 AM
Also, on a semi-related note...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230553717066+&viewitem=#v4-37

If you took 100 pimps, from all over the country, locked them in the backroom at a strip club, force fed them acid for a week straight, and asked them to design a car, that would be the result.

intragration
01-02-11, 03:00 AM
Reading these articles makes me love my car even more. It was obsolete before they even built it and yet Cadillac did it anyway, almost as a giant middle finger to the world *screw you progress*.

I like your attitude, Sven. I replied to another post about a similar subject, and mentioned something about the pre-build obsolescence. (Obsolescence being a relative term, describing society's fickle collective expectations and having very little to do with the validity of something) This is pretty much how I live my life. Some friends of mine and I have a saying, that we've "removed ourselves from circulation in normal society". That pretty well sums it up. When the world gives you lemons and you don't like lemons, tell them to screw off. In celebration of this concept, I'm planning to put 5000 miles on my '70 DeVille this year. Happy New Year!

SDCaddyLacky
01-02-11, 03:38 AM
I like your attitude, Sven. I replied to another post about a similar subject, and mentioned something about the pre-build obsolescence. (Obsolescence being a relative term, describing society's fickle collective expectations and having very little to do with the validity of something) This is pretty much how I live my life. Some friends of mine and I have a saying, that we've "removed ourselves from circulation in normal society". That pretty well sums it up. When the world gives you lemons and you don't like lemons, tell them to screw off. In celebration of this concept, I'm planning to put 5000 miles on my '70 DeVille this year. Happy New Year!

Well said! More people need to think like this. Forgot about what is forced upon us, corporations and the media says what we should like. Screw them, I have been driving big ass cars ever since I was able to obtain my drivers licence. Cadillac knew that the big RWD was coming to an end, and they still built them until 96, but Lincoln won out for being the most persistent which helped by it's good sales.

It's really sad that the 93-96 FWB's didn't sale as well as the Town Cars did. Considering the Fleetwoods were bigger, had more power and rode smoother than the Town Cars. I personally feel if the sales hadn't slide as much as they did in the 90's For Caddy, we would still be talking about the 2010 Cadillac Fleetwood Bro's right now.

sven914
01-02-11, 03:46 AM
I'm planning to put 5000 miles on my '70 DeVille this year.

Good luck with that. Mine's a daily driver and I barely reached 5,000 since December of '09. Only drove 7,639 miles since June of 2009 (that's when she turned over 90,000).

drewsdeville
01-02-11, 02:25 PM
It's really sad that the 93-96 FWB's didn't sale as well as the Town Cars did. Considering the Fleetwoods were bigger, had more power and rode smoother than the Town Cars. I personally feel if the sales hadn't slide as much as they did in the 90's For Caddy, we would still be talking about the 2010 Cadillac Fleetwood Bro's right now.

I think there were a couple of reasons, number 1 being the pricing.

But, car for car, I think the general consensus from the public was that the TC was a sharper looking car. The TC had more conventional styling (inside and out), a little more squared off with a very formal roofline. In '93 the FWB took a huge turn in styling, going for the very rounded, bubble-like profile. The wheel skirts on the rear just emphasized it more. I know there are fans here and I should tread lightly, but in comparison to the TC, the FWB looked like Moby Dick on wheels.

Of course, the FWB was a much better performer with a much more comfortable interior, but I very much disagree on the ride quality. It's the one thing the panther platform was continuously praised for, and the TC was the best example. At the time, NOTHING rode like the '90-'97 TC's, not even a FWB.

Throw in the significantly better fuel efficiency of the more sophisticated overhead cam Ford 4.6 (27-28 on the highway is not uncommon) and it's easy to see why the TC won over the consumers hearts.

And yes, poor sales killed the platform. I agree, if GM was succeeding in the market, they would have continued. Ford dominated GM in the segment when they updated the panther platform and released the 4.6 in '90-'91, and it snowballed from there.

Aron9000
01-02-11, 03:38 PM
Drew, I think there are three to four reasons why the last gen B-body didn't sell well.

1. Lack of advertising/promotion. Ford did advertise their big cars, GM did nothing for them and this really hurt sales IMO

2. Park Avenue/Deville- Both of these models were about the same price as the Roadmaster/Fleetwood. Both had about the same amount of interior space, they were easier to park, and did handle better. Lincoln had the Town Car and the god-awful Taurus wannbe Continentail. It was pretty obvious when you walked into the Lincoln showroom which one you bought if you wanted a BIG car, not so at your Cadillac/Buick dealer.

3. Ugly ass base Caprice. Notice how well the Impala SS sold when they introduced a model with a little flash and cleaner lines.

4. Cadillac pissing in their customers Cheerios. Between the V4-6-8, HT4100, 1985 Deville, Cimmarion, 1986 Seville and Eldorado, Cadillac ran off every good customer they had to Lincoln, Benz, Audi, BMW, or a little later Lexus.

csbuckn
01-02-11, 03:53 PM
I never could see what people liked in lincolns, I thought their 80s design was too much and their 90s design boring for a luxury car. I thought the crown vic was a better option. Plus they don't last. If you think about which 80s car you see on the road most today, its probably gonna be a B or D body car.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
01-02-11, 03:56 PM
Wow, Thanks for posting those reviews! That one of the 87 Brougham v. 87 Town Car is hilarious to read, and not in the good way. 0-60 in 13.5 seconds for the Brougham, and a 19.1 second quarter mile. Really puts into perspective how awful that 307 was.

drewsdeville
01-02-11, 04:05 PM
Drew, I think there are three to four reasons why the last gen B-body didn't sell well.

1. Lack of advertising/promotion. Ford did advertise their big cars, GM did nothing for them and this really hurt sales IMO

2. Park Avenue/Deville- Both of these models were about the same price as the Roadmaster/Fleetwood. Both had about the same amount of interior space, they were easier to park, and did handle better. Lincoln had the Town Car and the god-awful Taurus wannbe Continentail. It was pretty obvious when you walked into the Lincoln showroom which one you bought if you wanted a BIG car, not so at your Cadillac/Buick dealer.

3. Ugly ass base Caprice. Notice how well the Impala SS sold when they introduced a model with a little flash and cleaner lines.

4. Cadillac pissing in their customers Cheerios. Between the V4-6-8, HT4100, 1985 Deville, Cimmarion, 1986 Seville and Eldorado, Cadillac ran off every good customer they had to Lincoln, Benz, Audi, BMW, or a little later Lexus.

While I can't agree with #1 and #3, I like #4 and #2 is a very good point. This is one area where Ford has been smarter than GM in the last 2 decades or so, and it's too bad it took bankruptcy for GM to realize this mistake. GM was busy competing with itself by making cars that serve the same purpose while Ford had a slimmer lineup in which most models specialized in their genre. Like you say, the TC and Continental were entirely different cars that didn't even compete in the same genre. One based on the midsized Taurus, another based on the full sized Crown Vic.

As far as the above comment about panthers not being able to last...I think you are sorely mistaken, good sir.

intragration
01-02-11, 05:30 PM
The 307 was an interesting and sad example. It really was a nice motor in all respects, except power output. (An HO version in a 442 was a somewhat different story) Unfortunately, during the time of it's production, they introduced the Quad 4 and made a mockery of it by claiming the Quad 4 made more horsepower than V8s. It very much reminds me of the situation with the Northstar and the DI 3.6 today. Oooh, look, the Northstar only makes 292 horsepower, while the 3.6 makes 305. And it's for the same reasons. They take a motor that has received almost no updating in 18 years and compare it to the latest technology and somehow think it's a fair comparison.

I have to say that the Towncars in the early '90s were extremely nice cars, very solid and comfortable and good of power. Also have to give them credit for carrying the banner all the way to 2011.

SDCaddyLacky
01-02-11, 08:33 PM
After owning a 93 Town Car, I would say that they are nice cars to a certain extent. Were they worth over $40,000 back in the early 90's? Hell no! The quality on the inside wasn't all that great for a car that cost that much. They do ride really well, smooth, soft, but the handling was terrible. Because of the light rear sway bar, any time you would take the TC around a turn, it feels like your going to be thrown out of the car. Going over pot holes was ok, but I feel like my 94 FWB takes them better, you don't feel as much jolting and jerking coming into the interior in the Fleetwoods. I do wish my car rode a little softer and not as firm, but in a way it's alright because the Caddy handles great for being such a boat. No floating either.

Other than that, Lincoln should of made better upgrades to the TC's. It's pretty sad that you have to purchase a used Fleetwood in order to tow 7,000lbs, since Town Cars can't do it.

The-Dullahan
01-03-11, 12:57 AM
If you took 100 pimps, from all over the country, locked them in the backroom at a strip club, force fed them acid for a week straight, and asked them to design a car, that would be the result.

That's probably the car in Michigan that beat Matt to the punch on getting that custom, "METHLAB" license plate.